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Notable?

Paweł Holszański -wikipedia google search of English pages gives exactly zero hits. Two links that pop-up are irrelevant to whoever this is. Please prove notabiliuty before removing the tag. --Irpen 06:33, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually as notable as any Polish magnate in this project is. The Olshansky were a great family, rather Lithuanian than Polish, though. --Ghirla 08:36, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Very well, I think any magnate is indeed notable. It was nopt clear to me from the article. Perhaps an unusual spelling? Anyway, thanks. --Irpen 08:56, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I believe that to you Irpen and Ghirlandajo it should be no surprise that particular user is pushing his polish pov. M.K. 09:36, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, he would be notable if he wasn't Polish, but now that he is nothing can be done. Being a prince and a bishop of the second largest bishopric in Central Europe at the time is not enough to be notable. One would apparently have to be a Russian Orthodox bishop to be notable enough, right? //Halibutt 19:20, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Was he really Polish? What about Ruthenian name? Polish language was not officialy used in GDL at the time Alšėniškai/Olshanski lived Iulius 07:13, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Halibutt, I apologize for doubting his notability but it was not fully my fault. Due to the unusual way his name is spelled, it received zero (!) counts in google when I restricted the search to English sites. By doubts of notability vanished as soon as I figured that he was of Olshanski family. For my non-trained mind the connection between Holszański and Olshanski is not straightforward. --Irpen 07:38, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Since he was a Lithuanian magnate, wouldn't Olshanski/y be better then Holszański?-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  18:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Discussed and, hopefully, resolved at talk:Olshanski. --Irpen 18:38, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Alšėniškiai leads to Olshanski. It's poor editing, isn't it? Xx236 08:05, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Paweł is Polish writing. Any sources? Xx236 08:10, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Vilnius?

Xx236 11:37, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

One at a time, pls. Let's first agree whether we can ammend the last name to reflect the family he came from. --Irpen 18:14, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

A straw poll ? This is really stupid, I know. --Lysy 19:46, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Requested move 12 March 2023

It has been proposed in this section that Paweł Holszański be renamed and moved to Povilas Alšėniškis. A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. Links: current log • target log • direct move

Paweł Holszański → Povilas Alšėniškis – He was a Lithuanian noble and Lithuanian version of his name is Povilas Alšėniškis (e.g. see: Lithuanian encyclopedic source) which is the WP:COMMONNAME (19,000 results in Google search). The Polish variant of his name Paweł Holszański gives only 12,200 results in Google search, so such Polonization of a Lithuanian noble name here is absolutely unjustified per Misplaced Pages:Policies and guidelines (e.g. WP:NPOV, etc.). Povilas Alšėniškis currently is a redirect page, thus this renaming should be performed by an administrator. -- Pofka (talk) 14:32, 12 March 2023 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink).  — Amakuru (talk) 23:52, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

• It seems like there was enough doubt at RMTR as to whether this was Uncontroversial, that if should be discussed. @Pofka, Robertsky, and Marcelus:  — Amakuru (talk) 23:52, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

  His grave has Holszański on it... French wiki also Holszanski..hmn..🤔 - can we use both spellings somehow? - GizzyCatBella🍁 00:36, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 05:58, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose, @Amakuru this Google search numbers are incorrect, I don't know how Pofka did the WP:GOOGLETEST, but the numbers provided are wrong. Real number are below. Also compare: Talk:Ivan_Olshansky#Requested_move_2_March_2022

Google Search:

Paweł Holszański: 455 results

Povilas Alšėniškis: 104 results

Google Scholar:

Paweł Holszański gives 13 resutls in Google Scholar

Povilas Alšėniškis gives only 4 results in Google Scholar

The family was pretty early Ruthenized and adopted Orthodoxy (since Ivan Olshansky, who died in 1402) but later generations adopted Catholicism and Polish language, hence the Polish sounding name is so popular. Pretty standard story for the region. Also Robert I. Frost, The Oxford History of Poland-Lithuania, p. 84: Most were Catholics, but Vytautas assigned the greatest prize of Kyiv to his Orthodox brother-in-law Ivan Holshansky, son of one of Algirdas’s followers from the Ruthenianized Alseniskai family of Lithuanian kunigaiksciaiMarcelus (talk) 09:00, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

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