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Revision as of 01:20, 14 March 2023 editCombefere (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users853 editsNo edit summary← Previous edit		Revision as of 01:53, 14 March 2023 edit undoAgntOtrth (talk \| contribs)390 edits →Article title should be "Death of"Next edit →
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			:::No there was not a strong consensus. There was a strong bias based on what amounts to "original research" as much of the "support" was "If you only watch the videos you would know". That is original research, and it is not a neutral point of view. Of course I posted this in my first paragraph in when I created this topic.

			I will also note that you labeled it a homicide without offering any support as to why it should be considered a homicide - you are making an assumption, whilst relying on unverifiable comments from an attorney, and there is no secondary source to verify the the original claim.

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This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened:

January 22 to 28, 2023 (7th)

Two additional officers have been suspended

2 deputies at Tyre Nichols’ arrest and beating have been suspended following investigation, county says - CNN, Feb. 16, 2023

Two Shelby County sheriff’s deputies who were at the scene of Tyre Nichols’ deadly arrest in Tennessee last month violated department regulations and have been suspended for five days each without pay, according to a news release from the sheriff’s office obtained by CNN affiliate WHBQ. The suspensions of both Shelby County deputies who were at the scene of Nichols’ beating by Memphis police became effective on Wednesday, the release reads.

Both Deputy Jeremy Watkins and Deputy Johntavious Bowers were found to have failed to report to dispatch or their supervisor that they were on the scene, failed to have their body-worn camera in record mode and failed to report to dispatch they were leaving the scene, the department said in investigative reports obtained by WHBQ.

Additionally, Watkins did not note in his daily log that he was on the scene, one of the reports says.

Pertinent info that should be added to article. Thanks. 98.155.8.5 (talk) 07:52, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

If it could be attributed to causing the death of Nichols, I think it should be included. But there were only 4 LEOs present from 832pm to 836pm. At 836pm is when other LEOs/Sheriff Deputies showed up. The deputies failure to follow Sheriff policy about "report where you" cannot be attributed to a but for cause of Nichols death. AgntOtrth (talk) 18:29, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Irrelevant. This is not about if these officers contributed to Nichols' death, this is about the overall police response in and of itself, and issues related to that. Inclusion of this information helps present details about the bigger picture overall. Cheers. 98.155.8.5 (talk) 21:03, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Are wikiwikiwayne? It does not add value to the overall incident. Nichols was cuffed by the time they arrived. That they did not "call in" or turn on cameras is procedural issues in the Sheriffs Office. AgntOtrth (talk) 04:18, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Procedural issues, related to a crime scene where alleged police brutality occurred. Cheers. 98.155.8.5 (talk) 05:34, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

If the Sheriff had said something like that, then maybe. But as it is right now the Sheriff department is concerned about procedures regardless of crime scene. It is not relevant to the article AgntOtrth (talk) 20:31, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

It's a part of the story, and worth a mention. Cheers. 98.155.8.5 (talk) 21:52, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Aftermath : claim not supported by the reference, remove sentence.

"This controversial tactic had a tendency of suddenly escalating with the use of aggressive tactics by the police with little supervision."

Reference 95 leads to an article title "New Question in Tyre Nichols Case: Where Were the Supervisors?"

"This controversial tactic..." not discussed in the article.

"had a tendency of suddenly escalating with the use of..." not discussed in the article.

"aggressive tactics by the police with little supervision." not discussed in the article. AgntOtrth (talk) 00:03, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

This doesn't address all of your concerns, but here is one relevant segment from the cited New York Times article:

But the unit quickly developed a reputation for heavy-handed tactics, and a lawyer for Mr. Nichols’s family, Ben Crump, said on Friday that Mr. Nichols’s death was the direct result of this aggressive style of policing.
"The Scorpion unit had a pattern and practice of doing this to Black people in Memphis — that's it," he said. "They trample on the constitutional rights and human rights of Black and brown citizens. They don’t do that in the white communities to white citizens."

It also looks like WWGB removed a couple of problematic words with this edit. Cheers. 98.155.8.5 (talk) 04:10, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Also of note, references to the "heavy-handed tactics" and the "aggressive style of policing" relate to the previous paragraph in The New York Times story, which talks about the SCORPION unit:

The five officers charged ... had been part of a specialized street crime unit called Scorpion, which was formed in late 2021 with a mandate to help bring down rising crime rates. Driving muscle cars and wearing modified police uniforms and plainclothes, officers from the unit pulled over countless motorists for low-level violations, which regularly led to drug and gun seizures.

Hope that helps! Cheers. 98.155.8.5 (talk) 04:14, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

AgntOtrth – Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia. As such, you can only regurgitate what has already been said – but, you cannot copy what has been said. You need to research, read, and then put it in your own words. You keep deleting things for not being written verbatim, but again, that would be copying, which is a copyright violation.

I also sense that you are being myopic. Read ALL the sources before you dispute a statement. There is a rafter of references here, that cover a lot of stuff. Don't get too stuck on the reference that hangs on them. Look around. Only dispute OR and controversial stuff. If it's true, find the citation. Cheers! {{u|WikiWikiWayne}} {Talk} 03:59, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Fair Use under international copyright law allows for it quotes.AgntOtrth (talk)

We don't use non-free content if we can help it. What that means in practice is that we paraphrase and summarize, and directly quote our sources as little as possible, ideally not at all. Bowler the Carmine | talk 09:57, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

"Misplaced Pages pages may, in accordance with the guideline, use brief verbatim textual excerpts from copyrighted media, properly attributed or cited to its original source or author (as described by the citation guideline), and specifically indicated as direct quotations via quotation marks, <blockquote>, {{Quote}}, or a similar method." It is not prohibited by wikipedia policy. It is not prohibited by US Copyright. It is not prohibited by International Copyright law. Under both US copyright and International copyright it is protected under "fair use". AgntOtrth (talk) 02:55, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

If I may be so frank, I'm beginning to doubt your competence to contribute to Misplaced Pages. Throughout discussions on the talk page, you've been Wikilawyering, and badly at that. You've been removing properly sourced info for tiny mistakes, rather than fixing them. We've been trying and trying to set you on the right track, yet you refuse to listen, so that's why I'm being so direct now. Start listening, or log off, just stop disrupting work on the article. Bowler the Carmine | talk 18:38, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Bowler the Carmine – You reinstated a "tag" that does not indicate what the specific issue is - why did you reinstate the tag? And since the tag was put in place without identification of the specific issue; how is anyone suppose to know what needs to fixed? What is disruptive is placing a tag, without identifying how the issue can be corrected. So are you willing to identify the specific content that needs to be addressed / rephrased, so it can be corrected? AgntOtrth (talk) 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Article title should be "Death of"

Much of "support" for keeping it "Killing of" is based on original research, and biased original research at that.

Removing the "it is obvious" type comments there are roughly 10 editors supporting "killing of".

The flow chart clearly points to "Death of", Is the person dead = Yes; What was the manner of death = UNKNOWN = Death of

Reliables sources are not reliable 100% of the time.

The article title is not a neutral point of view; it reflects the bias of editors that said "it is obvious". Additionally, the article content can present the biased point of view of the reliable sources; but, again, neutral is about editing biased context.

The article title is does not present a neutral point of view. AgntOtrth (talk) 18:17, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

An independent autopsy has indicated that Tyre Nichols has died from bleeding from the police beating. According to that same flowchart, it is homicide and not capital punishment, and there isn't a conviction yet, so it is a killing. Bowler the Carmine | talk 18:59, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

The autopsy was commissioned by attorneys representing the family. It has not been released; and there is no indication that news orgs have been permitted to view a copy of the report; which suggests it is not from verifiable source, secondary source. So the unofficial unpublished autopsy is not relevant; nor are the news publishers providing medical opinions. AgntOtrth (talk) 19:40, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

This has already been discussed here in January 2023. There was a strong consensus to revise the title from "Death of Tyre Nichols" to "Killing of Tyre Nichols." The consensus was that this title is consistent with WP:DEATHS - because this was a homicide; the title should be "Killing of..." This consensus was reached just six weeks ago. Unless there is some substantial update from primary sources (i.e. new information indicating that this was not a homicide), I can't see any justification to open another discussion so soon. Combefere ❯❯❯ Talk 01:20, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

References

Carter, Nakylah (January 25, 2023). "Tyre Nichols suffered from 'extensive bleeding caused by a severe beating': Independent autopsy". ABC News.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
Wendling, Mike (January 25, 2023). "Autopsy indicates Tyre Nichols was beaten by police - lawyers". BBC News.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)

No there was not a strong consensus. There was a strong bias based on what amounts to "original research" as much of the "support" was "If you only watch the videos you would know". That is original research, and it is not a neutral point of view. Of course I posted this in my first paragraph in when I created this topic.

I will also note that you labeled it a homicide without offering any support as to why it should be considered a homicide - you are making an assumption, whilst relying on unverifiable comments from an attorney, and there is no secondary source to verify the the original claim.