Talk:Adolf Hitler: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 18:26, 13 March 2007 editDee Mac Con Uladh (talk \| contribs)78 edits →Added Television sub-section ← Previous edit		Revision as of 18:32, 13 March 2007 edit undoGolbez (talk \| contribs)Administrators66,949 edits →Added Television sub-section Next edit →
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	Please think about ] when making edits which remove basic knowledge from articles. This is guaranteed to drive away contributors who know the subject. ] 18:25, 13 March 2007 (UTC)		Please think about ] when making edits which remove basic knowledge from articles. This is guaranteed to drive away contributors who know the subject. ] 18:25, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
			:Better to drive away people who are completely incivil than to let them sour the pool for the rest of us. --] 18:32, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Revision as of 18:32, 13 March 2007

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Adolf Hitler is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. For older candidates, please check the archive.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
July 26, 2005	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
December 19, 2005	Good article nominee	Listed
April 22, 2006	Good article reassessment	Delisted

Current status: Former featured article candidate

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To-do list for Adolf Hitler: edit · history · watch · refresh · Updated 2015-01-17

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Copyedit : Delete redundant information
Verify : Add citations to listed facts

Hitler's father

Reverted back vandalism by Jonwillig. Action taken, vandal reported Matthew 04:04, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Hitler's official address

The headed paper on that site looks fake to me - for one thing, I would have expected the old German character set. I think this is likely to be one of many fake product sites for gullible Nazi-lovers and SS-wannabees. MarkThomas 20:21, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Did some more checking. The site is registered on NIC to a fake address and uses a phony name as the site owner unlisted on all Canadian public information sources. I removed the above text which is obviously intended as a site advert. MarkThomas 22:37, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough but I am not affiliated with this site, I genuinely want this information. If anybody knows hitler's official Nazi party address during the 2nd world war please let me know. Thanks (MarkT39 22:58, 27 February 2007 (UTC))

Hitler's wartime conduct

I think it is important to acknowledge Hitler's bravery during the first world war. While not considered as a candidate for leadership, Hitler carried out his orders with enthusiasm and haste. Im not a Nazi, but i do believe in the facts and the facts state that Hitler was a brave soldier, risking his life on numerous occasions and i think that this fact should be recognised in the interests of accuracy. Especially given that the only account of his wartime intestinal fortitude reads : "He was a slovenly soldier". Many accounts of his efforts in the great war have advised me otherwise. Venaleschatology 14:35, 20 February 2007 (UTC)Ozzy

If you have good sources for your claims, go ahead an be bold. Parsecboy 14:43, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

The accounts I've read (including authoritative French, German, English and US writers) all concur that he was a cowardly soldier during WW1, doing what he could to avoid the frontline and playing a conniving role with senior officers. He was reported as such in his military record. Then there was his feigned bout of illness. Ach, the Fuhrer was not vot he voz reported to be in Nazi ideological spin, vich still has it's victims apparently. MarkThomas 22:31, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Interesting. Wonder why Prof.Ian Kershaw, hardly a "victim of Nazi ideological spin", doesnt reference these "authoritative French, German, English and US writers"? Kershaw writes: "On 3 November 1914 Hitler was promoted to corporal. It was his last promotion of the war, though he could certainly have been expected to advance further, as least as far as non-commissioned officer. Later in the war he was in fact nominated for promotion.. and the regimental staff considered making him Unteroffizier.. Hitler actually refused to be considered for promotion." All presently appearing in the article and perhaps demonstrating the articles heavy reliance on Kershaw (at least for that period).

Having read his work I do get the impression Kershaw might have mentioned shirking/feigned illness. He is thorough. Thorough enough to mention a supposed wide acceptance of such facts but no Kershaw doesnt and even goes beyond Venaleschatology's suggestion; "From all indications, Hitler was a committed rather than simply a conscientious and dutiful, soldier, and did not lack physical courage. His superiors held him in high regard. His immediate comrades, mainly the group of dispatch runners, respected him and, it seems, even quite liked him.." and so on. p88 onwards, Hitler Vol.1. These sentences are about as close as Kershaw comes to praise in his two volumes. He is not what you would call a "sympathetic" biographer.

Given the recent firing of 'Essjay' (for using bogus credentials to add weight to TalkPage discussions and edit conflicts), can some detail on the secondary source material mentioned be given? Thanks. And btw, Venaleschatology was right, articles should aim, at the very least, to include basic facts like awards in battle, when they were awarded etc. — it is supposed to be an encyclopedia afterall. Dee Mac Con Uladh 15:50, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Very slight violation of POV policy

This: and as Waite points out, this fact is more important than whether he actually was. , while interesting and probably apt, is, in fact, an opinion (albeit vicarious) and should probably be cut. Or, a milder edit might be to reword thus: ; Waite suggests this fact is more important than whether he actually was.

Any objections?

Sugarbat 22:35, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't really see a problem with the sentence as it stands, and your edit doesn't really change anything. I'd say leave it as it is. Parsecboy 22:57, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

The fact is rubbish anyway - the idea that Hitler was scared of himself being Jewish is a VERY minority view, not in my opinion relevant to this article. Thedreamdied 15:59, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, my edit is subtle, which is why I called it "mild," but it does, in fact, change the wording -- removing the POV phrasing. Again, the issue (in the copy-edit context) isn't whether Hitler was Jewish or not, or was afraid of being Jewish or not afraid of being Jewish -- the issue is that the sentence I cite above is an example of an opinion -- the opinion being that of the person citing Waite. Opinions of the author(s) of an article aren't allowed in the article -- because those opinions would be subjective, and we want to minimize (if not eliminate entirely) subjectivity in Misplaced Pages articles. Please see the Misplaced Pages Manual of Style for more info about POV. I'm going to go ahead and edit the sentence as I suggested above, since it's been several days and the only comments/objections have been opinions themselves, and don't actually reference Misplaced Pages/encyclopedia style issues, which is sort of what I was asking for.

Sugarbat 00:56, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Attempts made to kill Hitler

Is there a specific Misplaced Pages article where notable attempts to kill him are listed? Half-Blood Auror 17:46, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

No, only articles on specific attempts like July 20 Plot. MarkThomas 22:39, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

A categorical summary of attempts on his life merits inclusion. It speaks of the disparate concerns reaching for his elimination. --Free4It 23:37, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Accuracy of WWII European Death and Casualty Count

To date the article quotes: By the end of the war, Hitler's racial policies had culminated in the killing of approximately 11 million people, including the genocide of some 6 million Jews, in what is now known as the Holocaust. In total, the war in Europe cost approximately 45 million people their lives. Do I understand correctly that Hitler's racial policies accounted for not only the 12 million of the Holocaust, but also, an additional 5 million, for a total of 11 million? If so, may I ask what is the authoritative sourcing for the 5 million figure ? Also, did Herr H. not have any non-racial policies of aggression that were directly contributable for WWII deaths? If so, may I ask why they are not given as respectful a mention, as the deserving racial count? Finally , the war in Europe costing approximately 45 million lives is, again, based on what sourcing? I believe a nation-by-nation, authoritatively cited, tally is required as a link, if not article specific. --Curiouscdngeorge 00:11, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

? This was already being discussed in the archived segment - did you just pull your comment out of the archive and repeat it without the followup comments? MarkThomas 20:22, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

If you know what has been discussed in the archives, you know the answer to your own question; unless, of course, being sarcastic is your surreptitious intent . This has already been discussed in the archives? I have searched the archives and see no aspect that sheds any light on some of the concerns I've expressed. Yet, I yield to your greater discernment; would you be so kind as to assist me? Where in the archives does it cite the authoritative source stating 5 million deaths, apart from the Holocaust, were due to racial policies? Where in the archives does it cite the authoritative source stating there were appoximately 45 million deaths in Europe? As my previous remarks demonstrate, what are the foundations for what would be, otherwise, the indiscriminate use of statistics. --Curiouscdngeorge 01:16, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Note some of the people were killed for being homosexuals or Jehovah Witnesses, not because of the race History of homosexual people in Nazi Germany and the Holocaust & Persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses Nil Einne 22:46, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I could not agree with you more. Hitler's motives were far broader than stating them as "racial policies." However, the encyclopedia's article content is not always well served with the truth; often it is better to read the discussion page to learn anything of merit. --Curiouscdngeorge 23:01, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Hitler's wife/girlfriend

My textbook says he did not marry Eva Braun. Can you cite that he did marry her? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eat-the-kids (talk • contribs)

What textbook? Every biography on Hitler in existence states that he did. Hugh Trevor-Roper's The Last Days of Hitler is the earliest solid source for the details. More up to date is Kershaw's Hitler: Nemesis Paul B 00:41, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Don't you know?? He voz marries to ze Reich, dumbkofps! MarkThomas 21:27, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Hitler's Jewish ancestor

Which one of Hitler's ancestors was Jewish?--70.243.83.33 19:51, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Jesus Christ via Mel Brooks. Also Rubie Wax. MarkThomas 20:37, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Hitler's Grand Mother (father's mother) was Jewish. --207.58.231.154 19:22, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

No she wasn't. It was alleged by Hans Frank that she had slept with a Jewish man named Frankenberger, who fathered Hitler's father Alois. There is no evidence of this. Paul B 20:25, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

is IS evidence, you just wont admit it!

There is evidence that the cousin of the aunt of hitlers mother mothers cousin was Jew...

Who-ever-you-are, why not read a few books on the subject such as those by Ian Kershaw and then come back and share with us what you know, rather than relying on rumors you heard in pre-school. Although I do of course accept that knowledge of a subject is not required to talk nonsense on Misplaced Pages! MarkThomas 17:56, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, MarkThomas: " Although I do of course accept that knowledge of a subject is not required to talk nonsense on Misplaced Pages!" May I add, articles, included. --Free4It 23:46, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Copyright violations

The lead image is a copyvio. It can be replaced by freely available image on commons titled "Adolf_Hitler.jpg" which is from an election campaign poster. Another suitable image also exists on commons . The other copyright violations should also be removed. Dee Mac Con Uladh 09:51, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Added Television sub-section

Hitler appeared on German TV during the period. This is common knowledge. If you dont know this then leave wikipedia, go pick up a HISTORY BOOK on the period and dont come back until you understand it.

Naturally since everyone can have a bash at wikipedia, someone reverted the edit. lulz! I have reinserted it and made a clear distinction between the documentaries made which portray Hitler during the 3rd Reich and those made after. Also included mention of things called newsreel which represent a form of documentary film and were quite popular at the time (a major source of news).

Please think about WP:CIV when making edits which remove basic knowledge from articles. This is guaranteed to drive away contributors who know the subject. Dee Mac Con Uladh 18:25, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Better to drive away people who are completely incivil than to let them sour the pool for the rest of us. --Golbez 18:32, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

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