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At (Wikiquette) : Editor A objects to Editor B's debate tactics, and claims that Editor B is using private rather than dictionary definitions of words such as "misinterpretation". The dispute has culminated in Editor B editing Editor A's posts. Editor B claims this is justified. Editor A is informally requesting comments on the debate tactics at the page above (or wherever it gets moved to), and seeks advice on whether to file some kind of formal complaint about the claim of justified editing of another's post. (Please note that page host User:Will Beback is not directly involved in the dispute.) 08:47, 13 March 2007 (UTC) At (Wikiquette) : Editor A objects to Editor B's debate tactics, and claims that Editor B is using private rather than dictionary definitions of words such as "misinterpretation". The dispute has culminated in Editor B editing Editor A's posts. Editor B claims this is justified. Editor A is informally requesting comments on the debate tactics at the page above (or wherever it gets moved to), and seeks advice on whether to file some kind of formal complaint about the claim of justified editing of another's post. (Please note that page host User:Will Beback is not directly involved in the dispute.) 08:47, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

===14 March 2007===

] has been warned about but the behavior persists and seems to be getting worse. 14:47, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Revision as of 14:47, 14 March 2007

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Wikiquette alerts are a streamlined way to get an outside view about possible problems with how editors are working with each other.

A single posting per alert is sufficient. Please avoid an extensive discussion of the problem or issue on this page. Instead, continue discussing it wherever you originally were — editors responding to posts here will come to you.


Are you in the right place?


Procedure for this page

At the bottom of this page,

  • Post a single link to the problem or issue as you see it (for example, a single posting or section of a talk page).
  • Describe the problem or issues as neutrally as possible.
  • Do not sign your comment and do not use names. Instead, type ~~~~~ (five tildes), which gives only a timestamp.
  • Please avoid an extensive discussion of the problem or issue on this page. Instead, continue discussing it wherever you originally were — editors responding to posts here will come to you!

If you would like to get an outside view on your own behaviour, you may post an item here about that, as well.

Editors who follow the link provided in an alert are encouraged to make a constructive comment on this page about any Wikiquette breaches they see.


Archiving

Items posted to this page should be removed after seven days.


Archived alerts

Active alerts

21 February 2007

User:Icar has been repeatedly describing me as "a Stalinist", "a communist", "a pest", "a disruptive editor", and comparing me to persecutors of the 1950s and himself to a victim (see this, this, and this). He has recently harassed me on my talk page, re-posting a personal attack he had made on another user, and one which I had erased (here and here). His contributions are almost entirely connected with a group of articles to which I have recently contributed, where I had initially removed the POV and insufficiently verified information he kept pushing, and his disregard for basic wikipedia conventions on neutral tone and reliability (see, for example, Talk:Leonte Tismăneanu). Dahn 22:51, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually in those 3 quotes he didn't describe you as "Stalinist", but your position as "Stalinist stance". I also couldn't find it where he called you a "communist".
Moreover, I doubt he is chasing your contributions, a much more fairer assessment would be he's interested in the history of Communism in Romania (unless you have solid evidence for your claims).
On the other hand you also have a long track of POV pushing (see your numerous edit wars in Vladimir Tismăneanu , Leonte Tismăneanu and others - which perhaps are not relevant now - plus the interference of User:Khoikhoi who occassionaly reverts all the changes of other editors to the last change made by you and that without absolutely no reason as he is absent from the debates and he is not adding content whatsoever in those articles), so unless you'll find a mediation/arbitration to decide where the middle ground is, I personally do not find your accusation solid (though I disagree(d) with many things Icar added). Daizus 00:01, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your input. Now, I'll wait for neutral users to become involved, if you don't mind. Dahn 00:12, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
After carefully reading Dahn’s report and following step by step the development of the story I am very inclined to second Daizus’ conclusions. As for Icar, his article edits appear to be much better than his talk page contributions, where he sometimes seems to be unwary in the choice of his vocabulary. Nevertheless, he is a valuable contributor and there is no apparent reason to doubt his good faith. --Vintila Barbu 08:56, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
As I have said: I'm still waiting for neutral editors. Dahn 09:36, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
It is strange that Dahn resorted to complaining. In fact I am basically persecuted by Dahn, who systematically removes my contributions on all pages. There is something wrong with the way he deals with editing conflict. Instead of discussing and then changing, immediatly he reverts. He may or may not leave a dismissive note ("rv vandalism" is his favorite, which I apply to him only in retaliation). Another dishonest behavior is enlisting the help of people unrelated to the article in question. User:Khoikhoi did a few reverts at Dahn's request without having the slightest idea what he was doing, just beacuse he and Dahn do such services between themseves. Then three other users Mardavich, User:Domitius and User:Artaxiad also joined in reverting to Dahn's versions. None of these users ever made any contributions to related articles. My personal opinion is that User:Dahn suffers from the WP:OWN syndrome. It is a lie that I posted a personal attack on his page. I posted there a reaction to user Khoikhoi's acknowledging that he just acted according to Dahn's wish and blindly reverted to Dahn's versions. Dahn has the habit of erasing comments he dislikes. I repeated the comment on Khoikhoi's talk page. He did not erase it and it is really not a personal attack. In fact, aside from the obnoxious treatment I receive from Dahn, I find WP quite a friendly place...(Icar 14:19, 21 February 2007 (UTC))
Mardavich sided also with Khoikhoi in an edit war he had with me in Albert Wass article (with the same symptoms: Mardavich hasn't contributed in any way to that article or to its talk page, moreover I addressed his behavior on his talk page and I got no response!). I believe these are "friendships" over Misplaced Pages translated as mutual support to avoid 3RR violations. I will look if this falls under the incidence of Wiki rules, if so, this POV pushing should be exposed. Daizus 14:27, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
To all parties involved. Please avoid continued discussion of the issue on this page. Editors will come to you when responding to this. Defense and additional accusations are not necessary; an experienced editor will be able to help out based on the original posting alone. Sancho McCann 17:10, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Could someone take a look here? Repetitive revert changes, WP:OWN behavior and uncivil attitudes by Viriditas has caused one seasonededitor to leave the article completely and caused others (including me) to lose their tempers at the user's unwillingness to work within a group, He has been active in edit-warring for almost a month, breaking 3RR at least twice (no action taken due to the edit summaries concealing the reverts until it was too late to report them). Independent, informal evaluations had been asked for in the past, yet Viriditas pays no attention to their conclusions, and has edited vitually every edit (not just mine) that is added to the article.Arcayne 04:32, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

22 February 2007

  • User:Pakalomattam added content to several articles (, , ) using a five-digit system for numbering the years (e.g. "02007" instead of "2007" - like the Long Now Foundation). I changed the dates to the standard four-digit style, but he reverted them. I explained on his talk page why four-digit years should be used for both technical and aesthetic reasons, but he insists he is free to use five-digit years because WP:DATE does not explicitly say not to use them. Following some discussion he posted a rather confrontational ultimatum on my talk page ordering me to change his edits back or change the manual of style by Saturday, and that the issue was simply a case of my opinion versus his. I feel I have made it quite clear to him why four-digit years are the accepted standard on Misplaced Pages, but he is clearly not accepting this. I feel he is straying into WP:DE territory and would rather not continue arguing the toss alone. 19:06, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

23 February 2007

  • I would welcome outside input at my comments on Misplaced Pages:Village pump (assistance)#My response on the matter. I think User:Durin might be going a bit too far in his methods with not just me, but others who he contacts about images, etc. Clearly investigating family members of Misplaced Pages users is a bit beyond the line. I am also concerned about an unresolved threat, where another user stated he had friends who lived in my area and that he'd been in touch . As far as I can tell, no action was taken against the person who made that statement; a statement which scared the hell out of me and made me fear for the safety of myself and my family. I actually no longer edit Misplaced Pages from home or work because of this, only public locations. Please note that I'm not filing any complaints against Durin and dont want to get him or others spun up. I just would like some neutral comments about the conversation on the pump page to see if I myself have done anything seriously wrong. Thank you -Pahuskahey 15:44, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
  • You are upset about and accuse me of supposedly contacting people (including government agencies) to investigate your family members, but have no desire to spin things up? For the record, as I have now stated multiple times, I investigated the source of the image Image:Soninafghan.jpg which you uploaded, by using statements made by you about this image and the person displayed in the image (age, service, location of service, rank, and death). I used these statements and compared them against these resources:
  • I could find nothing that matched. Nothing. That is why I call into question the veracity of your claims that this was your son, killed in the war on terrorism. I did not contact any government agencies (as you claim). I did not contact anybody in the "real world" regarding the veracity of these images. I used the information you gave and information publicly available on the Internet, and that is all. Period. Images on Misplaced Pages are routinely reviewed for their source, attributions, and copyrights. I am sorry you find this troubling. --Durin 16:10, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
  • No one is making accusations, I am asking for neutral people to give an opinion; I thought this page was for that purpose, not for you and I to hash it out further. No intent here to stir things up, just wanted to hear other songs and not just the same old tune. -Pahuskahey 16:16, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
  • You have repeatedly accused me of investigating your family members offline. You have zero evidence of this and have been shown multiple times now how I ascertained the results that I did. Yet, the accusations remain. Casting about on various forums and continuing to maintain that I have made such a gross violation of privacy is not a positive process in any respect for you, me, or the project. I have requested you begin an RfC. Please do so. That is a preferable forum for this; you would surely get considerably more input. --Durin 16:20, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
  • RfC says you have to have two people and have an unresolved issue which has failed to be resolved through other methods. It also says an RfC should not be taken lightly and only used as a last resort. Since the photos themselves have been deleted, that issue would seem to be resolved. After reviewing the situation, I will admit you that based on what you have said, you appear to have only used the internet and not contacted government agenices. Although, at first, it seemed like this was what you had done. And, also, what would have happened if these internet sources had given you a confirmed name? You then would have had my son's name and thus my last name, easily tracing it to me. I also do not accept that you ever had enough info to ID him. You took a lot of info pieces from the picture and the shadow box program, assuming a great deal which I never verified. The picture is gone though and I will not re-upload it, so no further need to beat it death. I was hoping for 3rd party opinions on this page, not a continuation of the debate. -Pahuskahey 16:31, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

24 February 2007

The behaviour of user Gravitor is becoming more and more disruptive. Violations appear to be WP:AGF, WP:NPA, and WP:Civility. This user uses edit summaries such as "reverting to last NPOV. Discuss on talk page" when he is the one that refuses to discuss the matter on the talk page. A poll was taken, showing that his viewpoint was in the minority opinion, yet he continues to make dramatic reverts to a very old version of the article without commenting. It was explained that one should attempt to modify the text, as opposed to revert, in order to help acheive consensus, but this was to no avail. A summary of his behaviour is given here, as well as above in the same talk page. His personal behaviour is most clearly seen here: Talk:Independent evidence for Apollo Moon landings. Please look at the edit history of the article. This user is also deleting my complaints from his talk page. While others must share some of the blame, he appears to be engaged in trolling, and is bringing the worst out in everybody.

In short, I would like to know if there is anything that can be done, or if I should accept this type of behaviour as being inevitable form time to time at wikipedia. 15:23, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

25 February 2007

27 February 2007

  • Dokdo wars heat up. In "The Dokdo wars heat up" section, a user has intentionally spurred the fire of the dispute at the Dokdo talk page by introducing a biased anti-Korean link and a malicious comment about enjoying the fight between the two parties. 22:30, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
I contend that the link was neither malicius nor spurring dispute, nor was it directed towards any users. As I noted on the talk page itself, the link may have been found on the pro-Japan section, but the quoted sources themselves are Korean. The time period contended by the external link also happens to be missing in the actual Ryukyu Islands history section, which starts in the 18th century. I'd also note that this user has also made both personal attacks and ethnic attacks towards me previously (see Talk:Baekdu Mountain. Judge for yourself whether or not his comments on that page were made maliciously and in bad faith. He has accused me of "extremely provocative and insulting battle spurring comments", but perhaps he should read some of his own comments and see if they were made with exactly this intention he accuses me of.--Yuje 04:57, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
It is a general comment toward both the Korean and Japanese sides and the style and wording of the comment is enough to heat up the battle even more. Good friend100 23:56, 2 March 2007 (UTC)


3 March 2007

Provide evidence, or stay away. Provide here all links from the history where you think it is a personal attack. ≈Tulkolahten≈ 10:45, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
My Talk Page
]
]
]
Karlovy Vary Discussion Page
]
]
]
]
]
User:Piotrus' Talk Page
User_talk:Piotrus#EN_nomenclature
User:Rex Germanus' Talk Page
User_talk:Rex_Germanus#Renaming_articles
I've asked him to stop here, and he refused here.
kthx. Antman -- chat 17:16, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh man, I hope some administrator will take a look on it very quickly, that's ridiculous, it's nothing uncivil. Also why don't you tell them about your attack userbox and about this . ≈Tulkolahten≈ 17:30, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
You removed a lot of context, liek this - it is the complete conversation. Your edits are disruptive, you are saying that you will ignore consensus and a couple of editors noticed that (like Rex Germanus, Piotrus and me) but all what you can do is to cut some edits from the context and report your version. You have two userboxes claiming you as a german imperial patriot and that you support Danzig isntead of Gdansk. If someone notice that in the middle of the discussion about Carlsbad/Karlovy Vary (exactly the same as Danzig/Gdansk) you claims him as a personal attacker, that's ridiculous. ≈Tulkolahten≈ 17:37, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
What? Antman -- chat 17:52, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
What what ? Suddenly you know nothing about your uncivility, what a surprise ... ? ≈Tulkolahten≈ 17:54, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
No, I am having trouble reading your English. Antman -- chat 18:05, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Don't worry Tulkolahten, this wouldn't be the first time Antman wasn't able to back up what he claimed. He once claimed I called him a nazi, I said I would leave wikipedia if he showed me where ... I'm still waiting.Rex 18:10, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Hm as I see he is not able to be so patient and read non-native english, any native speaker can do it, if not, then it is something wrong there. ≈Tulkolahten≈ 21:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
No, I just don't feel like taking the time to try to read what you are writing, as it is just an attack anyways. Antman -- chat 22:57, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
You don't even read that and you are blaming me, uf ... too much for me ... ≈Tulkolahten≈ 09:06, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

4 March 2007

  • Can someone look into User:NawlinWiki? He seems to be deleting articles without considering their notability properly - from the comments on his discussion page it seems as though he is only considering whether articles are notable to him personally.
Can you please provide a link to an example or two of this for someone to evaluate? --JaimeLesMaths 06:07, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree; he is commenting on the contributor(s), not on the(ir) contribution(s). Seems to me that the mediation process should address such comments: they seem to create an unproductive mediation atmosphere. --JaimeLesMaths 06:07, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
I disagree. There was possibly a very minor violation of WP:AGF on his part, but he was only pointing out the Misplaced Pages policies that govern appropriate article content in a non-wikilawyering way. He probably should have referred to WP:POINT instead of WP:SPIDER, but I see no significant Wiki ettiquette violations on his part. --JaimeLesMaths 06:49, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
  • User:TVshot appears to be skirting a very fine line of uncivil behavior, and his userpage and contributions seem to indicate that he is editing with disruption in mind. 00:06, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. I'm sure people have their eye on him now. I would recommend disengaging for now. --JaimeLesMaths 06:49, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

5 March 2007

  • Davémon appears to be WP:TROLLing the Image development (visual arts) article or has a personal competitive business interest in monopolizing terminology. His edits are not in good faith. The user is rejecting the community input after an AfD discussion. The page history shows that the user is in clear violation of disruptive editing WP:POINT. The user is taking advantage of the fact that art-related wikipedia articles are easy to label original research because they consist mostly of WP:POV. The user is also scrutinizing the article with a double standard. When the article was not sourced, he added a {{Original research|entire article no doubt}} tag but then put a soft {{Not verified}} tag on the corporate image page which has alternate use of the term. The user threw every argument in the book against the article, and then archived the failed arguments and the note to "keep" after the AfD before requesting a third opinion so at a glance, the only arguments that appeared on the page appeared to be a dispute between two users. Clearly this person is gaming the system. If this person is allowed to scrutinize POV to this level, wikipedia will be nothing but a bibliography. 21:33, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

6 March 2007

  • I am not sure where to place this; I have been falsely accused of a personal attack by Longend. on Homer slips. page for making a comment on his bad language on his discussion page. Longend removed my comments, homer slips thanked him on Longends discussion page and a friend of homer slips told them to check me for sock pocket. Why am I made to be into a criminal for telling homer slips to stop using bad language and name calling?
Saintrotter 6 March 2007
  • At Talk:Frank R. Wallace#Request for Comment: acceptable sources (see e.g. this revision), user Bridge & Tunnel has been throwing out random nonsensical ad hoc arguments regarding the admissibility of certain sources. Even after his arguments have been rebutted in detail, he still repeatedly insists he's right. Someone please look into this and put a stop to it. 19:51, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

7 March 2007

  • Per the talk page at Talk:Firestop_pillow, user User:Ahering@cogeco.ca is having trouble understanding the Attribution policy ("I'm referencing real experience and the pix to back it up in reality, not some fancy stuff a professor wrote in a book", "my knowledge on the subject matter is not book knowledge, it is hands-on"). Could someone else help explain ithe issue to him there? 14:09, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Both editors warned at respective talk pages (level 3 for Kemor and level 4 for Payne). --JaimeLesMaths 08:27, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

9 March 2007

  • User 200.168.32.36 has removed particular content from the trance music article five times, despite being reverted each time and warned twice. Refer to his talk page for the diffs. I'm not sure this qualifies as vandalism, but it is repetitive disruptive activity and should be stopped. 11:35, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Withdrawn by poster; will be treated as vandalism. 23:07, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Per the talk page at Talk:Tin Oo, user User:Okkar is having trouble understanding the Attribution policy ("Read the source... pay attention when you read the article, it is historical fact, you should take a visit to Defense Museum in Yangon... have you ever been there?"). No one can make a change to one of his poor edits without having their own contributions attacked. When the fact tags he places are addressed (see Tin Tun, Ye Htoon, and Scouting in Burma), he removes them and places the fact tags once again, it is repetitive disruptive activity and should be stopped. 18:48, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Okkar has also made personal attacks on other editors accusing them of bias and favoring Burmese opposition pro-democracy groups. This is one on Hintha: ("Here we go, everytime the likes of you get caught redhanded, you scream personal attack, yet you expect to get away with the misdeed by trying to overcloud the issue at hand with personal attack claims. It is truely amazing to see this form of mentality in Misplaced Pages. Not only people cheat, lie and do all kinds of misdeeds, they have the audicity to claim to be victim. No wonder there are soo many sorry stories about Burmese refugees, this is just one fine example of the propaganda tactics of opposition groups - hit first then pretend to be victim .. amazing, truly amazing!! Okkar 02:33, 14 January 2007 (UTC)") From: http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Myanmar
Here is another comment made by Okkar: ("Finally, the common sense has prevailed and triumphed over destructive mindset of opposition groups and their minions who are using this project as a political propaganda tool. It is a victory over those who seek out to degrade our country by insisting to use the old colonial name of the country as the name of the project and the axe handles who colluded with foreigners with mob mentality to remove anyone who don’t support or share their politically biased views from this project by any means necessary, even if it means they have to cheat or lied. Okkar 22:01, 1 February 2007 (UTC)") From: http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Myanmar_%28Burma%29#Political_Agendas
In both quotes, Okkar is neither assuming good faith nor is he avoiding personal attacks on other editors. This kind of behavior and language is clearly counter to Misplaced Pages's standards. I've not witnessed any apology by Okar for this behavior. His pattern seems to be to cease temporarily this kind of behavior then start up again later. Based on this constant bad behavior, I raise the question of whether he should be banned from editing Misplaced Pages. SimonBillenness 21:30, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

12 March 2007

On http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Porphyry_of_Gaza: The commments made in support of large-scale reverts seem very inflammatory, and involve personal attacks. Nor do they describe what was done to the article accurately. Can neutral editors take an interest? 15:44, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

13 March 2007

At (Wikiquette) #Informal Request for Comment on debate tactics: Editor A objects to Editor B's debate tactics, and claims that Editor B is using private rather than dictionary definitions of words such as "misinterpretation". The dispute has culminated in Editor B editing Editor A's posts. Editor B claims this is justified. Editor A is informally requesting comments on the debate tactics at the page above (or wherever it gets moved to), and seeks advice on whether to file some kind of formal complaint about the claim of justified editing of another's post. (Please note that page host User:Will Beback is not directly involved in the dispute.) 08:47, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

14 March 2007

User:Dking has been warned about this sort of thing, but the behavior persists and seems to be getting worse. 14:47, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

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