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fix spin language

"Self proclaimed" "suppoisdly" on and on, this is not neutral language — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.100.201.50 (talk) 20:07, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

WP:NOTNEUTRAL - LuckyLouie (talk) 11:53, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

I agree. I was coming here to say the same thing when I came upon your comment. This article sounds like it is written by someone who has an agenda against Bob Lazar. An article like this belongs on Rational Wiki, not here. 2600:1700:5400:99F0:9C09:3F64:D6AB:CA87 (talk) 16:59, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Try reading WP:NOTNEUTRAL. Don't worry, it is a short essay. But if you have any reliably-sourced material to add to this article, or if you believe any of the material therein is not reliably sourced, go right ahead and make a bold edit(s). Oh, you should probably also read WP:RS, WP:FRIND, and WP:GEVAL. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 17:27, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

The real concern with the "nuetrality" described is that the article leaves out evidence a majority of research and background of Mr Lazar's life, which can sway the reader into false conclusions. 192.174.126.170 (talk) 09:58, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Pandering charge

What I understand this was, he installed a computer network or computers in a brothel, not that he was involved with prostitution directly. 24.51.192.49 (talk) 08:34, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

that was all a lie the government set that up, if he didn't worked at groom lake in a facility called A-4,how would he had know when they were doing test flight,,pendejo Wolfman8142 (talk) 10:39, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Did a middle schooler protect this page

This entry is heavily editorialized YUCK Toddtodddd (talk) 13:04, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Yes, a middle schooler protected this page. Now, do you have any specific item to add to, or delete from, the article? JoJo Anthrax (talk) 15:25, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Middle schoolers are his core fan base, if this eBay auction is any indication. - LuckyLouie (talk) 21:29, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Kids these days. But how best to incorporate this notable, artistic activity into the article? Perhaps 'abstract ufo artist' should be added to his occupation(s)? JoJo Anthrax (talk) 23:28, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Here's a pretty good description of Lazar's commercial activity. - LuckyLouie (talk) 20:22, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

This makes me wonder: What is the IRS six-digit business code for "UFO bon vivant"? JoJo Anthrax (talk) 19:37, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

It is 711510. 198.209.17.240 (talk) 13:04, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Bob Lazaar's name used in rock band "Clutch" song titled "Escape from the Prison Planet"

I had just watch Joe Rogan's interview with Bob Lazaar and realized I had heard that name before then a light bulb went off in my head. I remembered one of Clutch's songs from the mid 90's mentioned his name. So I pulled up the lyrics from "Escape from the Prison Planet and sure enough it was in there. It was like and epiphany. Man... I seriously love Clutch!!! 2603:8001:1901:8600:6B23:8F16:C0ED:4688 (talk) 03:46, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Be a skeptic but respect facts

Bob Lazar studied at MIT los alamos, whatever your beliefe on UFOs, if you are Skeptical or pro believer, please do not change the truth. Bob lazar is a scientist, certified, there’s evidence, typing that he is a self-proclaimed scientist goes beyond false news. That’s why wikipedia shouldn’t allow kids as editors. Vinsol100 (talk) 21:36, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Bob lazar is a scientist, certified, there’s evidence In that case, please go ahead and add that evidenced (i.e., reliably sourced) content. I look forward to reading that evidence, because although I have been surrounded by scientists for several decades, I had no idea that one could be "certified" in that career. (although I know more than a couple who should be certified) JoJo Anthrax (talk) 18:40, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

JoJo Anthrax, if there is no such thing as certification of scientists, then what makes Mr Lazar any more "self-proclaimed" of a physicist than anyone else? Perhaps say "a self-proclaimed college graduate," if that's the bit of evidence you see missing, here. How many Misplaced Pages articles have required proof of a scientist's education? Further, anyone with an Associate's Degree in any science is, by definition, a scientist. Do we call Steve Jobs a "self-proclaimed inventor" since he never finished college? The answer to that is obvious; so is your attempt to defend the biased language in this article. I visited this page because I am a professor of public speaking and a student gave a speech about Lazar. I teach my students that Misplaced Pages is not the one-sided, biased, inaccurate place it was a decade ago. Sadly, this article disproves my claim about Wikipedian accuracy while serving to prove Lazar's claims more than disprove them. --Aristotle's Granddaughter 198.209.17.240 (talk) 21:02, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

You need to strike your accusation of defamation. See No personal attacks which is a blockable offense and you also need to log into your account. Its fine to debate content as long as that content is supported by sources but you cannot make disparaging comments about other editors. Also, not sure JoJo Anthrax is a Mr. (no gender declared that I can tell). S0091 (talk) 21:13, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

I made the specific revisions you suggested. However, in the interest of ethos, to anyone who believes the tone JoJo Anthrax has used reflects a bias, I invite you to visit his talk page and observe the breadth of topics on which he publishes as an expert. 198.209.17.240 (talk) 21:18, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Based on the statements, JoJo Anthrax is asking for sources to support your position which are required per WP:V. And yes, Misplaced Pages does require reliable sources to support someone has a degree or is otherwise considered a subject matter expert, as described by reliable sources. Unsourced claims can be removed and should be removed for Biographies of living persons. S0091 (talk) 21:30, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Not my position--I haven't stated one. JoJo made the assertion that there is no such thing as a certification process for scientists. In fact, we (Americans) grant degrees at a number of institutions. Lazar has, like Thomas Edison, claimed he has one. I do not believe that the article about Thomas Edison offers a notarized statement confirming his education. Lazar has stated what education he received, and, according to my student who gave an excellent speech, Lazar has provided copies of his diploma. What is the threshold of oppositional evidence to a primary source that would require more secondary support? 198.209.17.240 (talk) 21:35, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

PS: What is the threshold for "reliability" when using it to evaluate secondary sources? For example, would it be appropriate to cite one of the recent biographies of him and report his side of the story by citing those elements of documentary journalism? I know the answers to these already, but I'm not going to waste time fixing this article only to have a self-proclaimed middle schooler change them back. 198.209.17.240 (talk) 21:53, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Read reliable source. For example a self-published book would generally be considered unreliable but a book from a reputable publisher with editorial oversight and a history of fact checking is generally considered reliable. I used the term "generally" because it depends on the source and the content it is supporting. For example, the New York Times is generally considered a reliable source but it may not be a reliable source for certain content. Context matters which is why a source first has to provided so it can be analyzed to determine if it is reliable given the content. So far, you have provided nothing but words. With that, I am stepping out of this discussion because, honestly, I am completely disinterested in this topic and only commented because I saw your disparaging comment but that has been sufficiently rectified. Although I will say, once again, you do need to long into your account. S0091 (talk) 22:11, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice, S0091, but I do not have a wikipedia account. You may verify my credentials with my ip address. 198.209.17.240 (talk) 12:47, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

according to my student who gave an excellent speech I suggest, 198.209.17.240, that you read WP:RS to learn why your student's speech is not a reliable source. As for self-proclaimed middle schooler, I suggest that you also read WP:NPA. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 02:04, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice, JoJo. I would not cite a student speech, obviously. I came here to confirm things from my student's speech, particularly whether Lazar had in fact passed several lie detector tests from impartial examiners as part of a published documentary film. I do not believe "self-proclaimed middle schooler" is any more of a personal attack than "self-proclaimed physicist," and it relies on information you asserted, which I'm sure was not intended as an attack, when you confirmed that this page was trolled by a middle-schooler. If you have evidence that the aforementioned middle schooler has, in fact, graduated, for example, I'd be glad to tell you if the evidence is good enough. Please not that I use "trolled" in the sense of one who stands by a bridge and won't let anyone past out of indignant self-importance; I could be wrong. 198.209.17.240 (talk) 12:52, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

PS: I'll come back if I can find any sources that show both sides of this issue. I appreciate that it seems you folks here would accept evidence from published sources, such as the 1989 media coverage of his claims that I vaguely recall. I'll do research. Please be 1% more civil with those that are here to contribute and preserve knowledge, and please have a nice day. 198.209.17.240 (talk) 12:56, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

I do not believe "self-proclaimed middle schooler" is any more of a personal attack than "self-proclaimed physicist," The difference is that one is a derogatory comment directed at a specific editor on the Article Talk page, the other is article text containing a summary of what cited WP:RS say about the article subject. If you cannot understand the difference, then you probably shouldn't be editing Misplaced Pages. I hope you'll read the links to Misplaced Pages editorial policies I left on your User Talk page. - LuckyLouie (talk) 17:31, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Lucky, I was summarizing JoJo's post. JoJo's exact words were, "Yes, a middle schooler protected this page." Are you quite sure JOJO was not directing that comment at a specific editor? I have no idea if JoJo meant you, JoJo themself(s), or someone else, just that it was offered as an excuse here in the talk page for the biased tone of the actual article, without identifying the editor who protected the page. Further, I do not have a user talk page since I am not a registered user; I'm an anonymous editor. If you post something to your user page that you would like me to review or comment on, please let me know here. Finally, I take your question of my competence as a personal attack, as I have already established my credibility as a rheterician, and encourage you to review this link: Misplaced Pages:NPA 198.209.17.240 (talk) 20:40, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

PS: Using an "If...then" construction won't shield you here. I already stated that I do not see a difference, so your use of "If you cannot understand the difference" does nothing to insulate you from the fact that you directly questioned my credibility as a competent editor. 198.209.17.240 (talk) 20:51, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi IP, yes you do have talk page as everyone does regardless if they are registered or not, see User talk:198.209.17.240 and again, you keep addressing JoJo as a "he" but I not have seen anything the states JoJo's gender. This suggests you do either do not read comments or disregard them. S0091 (talk) 20:51, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

I noticed my typo and rectified it prior to your post. I apologize profusely to all males on the planet for my potential error. 198.209.17.240 (talk) 20:54, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Opinionated Claims on Conspiracy

Unless self-proclaimed, one cannot assume someone is a "Conspiracy Theorist". Backing this up with "professional sourcing", still cannot be used as it is a soley opinionated claim, no matter who it comes from if denied or unstated by the individual himself (this would be akin to claiming someone is of a specific belief or idiology without clarification or evidence provided by the individual). 192.174.126.170 (talk) 09:53, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages simply reflects the highest quality sources available. If a preponderance of reliable sources identify Lazar as a conspiracy theorist, then the encyclopedia follows suit. It's very common for newcomers to misunderstand WP's editorial policies like WP:RS, WP:FRIND, and others. In this case, a helpful essay to read is WP:NOTNEUTRAL. - LuckyLouie (talk) 14:52, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Just because a source makes a claim, no matter how reliable, an opinion is still an opinion. Bob Lazar has never stated or made actions to suggest he is a conspiracy theorist. He has also made numerous statements that suggest he is not a theorist of any kind, and simply had a story to tell, whether true or false is uncertain, however it is rather bold and irrational to pin someone as a conspiracy theorist with no founding 192.174.126.170 (talk) 22:57, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/Conspiracy_theory 192.174.126.170 (talk) 23:01, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

it is rather bold and irrational to pin someone as a conspiracy theorist with no founding. I suggest that you read the secondary, reliable sources used in this article, from which the description of Lazar as a conspiracy theorist is indeed well founded. I further suggest that you follow the advice of LuckyLouie and read WP:RS, in order to better understand what is, and what is not, included in Misplaced Pages articles. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 00:29, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

I have heard the "he is not theorizing, only reporting what he has witnessed" argument before. But check out his claims: the government is secretly hiding alien technology (a conspiracy), the government covertly erased his records (a conspiracy), his workplace was raided under false pretenses by the FBI to recover Element 115 (a conspiracy). And when multiple reliable sources cite such examples in the context of his role as a conspiracy theorist Misplaced Pages requires us to merely summarize and relay their conclusions without any silly waffling. - LuckyLouie (talk) 12:19, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

Request for addition of information

Forgive my MLA citations. If one of you kind editors could assist me in the conversion to WP style, I would be forever in your debt.

Lazar is identified as a "physicist" in Newsweek, therefore this declaration of his profession is not self-proclaimed, because Newsweek proclaimed it after confirmation common of professional journalism:

O’Donnell, Paul, and Lucy Howard. “Model Aliens.” Newsweek, vol. 124, no. 14, Oct. 1994, p. 6

Also, please add the following where you see fit:

According to Vinay Menon of the Toronto Star, despite the views of skeptics, "nothing Lazar said has ever been disproven."

Menon, Vinay. “Time for NASA to Take Bob Lazar Seriously.” Toronto Star (Canada), 27 Oct. 2022. 71.36.193.227 (talk) 22:12, 26 April 2023 (UTC) --Aristotle's Granddaughter (working from home) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.36.193.227 (talk) 22:13, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

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