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Hi what's your name and who are you...??!!! Are you MJ ..!!!??!!! Tell me more about Michael Jackson...!!!! Email me back...Thanks ] (]) 05:55, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
Revision as of 05:55, 7 October 2023
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Michael Jackson article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Many of these questions arise frequently on the talk page concerning Michael Jackson.
To view an explanation to the answer, click the link to the right of the question.
Q1: Should the article mention reports that Michael Jackson was Muslim? (No.)
A1: No. The article should not mention reports that Michael Jackson was Muslim. Jackson had not publicly spoken about his exact religion in a number of years and only spoke about spirituality in general terms. The specific reports of a conversion ceremony for Jackson have been denied by his New York lawyer Londell McMillan. They were also denied by Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens and Dawud Wharnsby who were allegedly present at the ceremony. The Michael Jackson memorial service did not involve any Islamic rites. Without further details from his family or representatives, it will not be included in the article.
Q2: Should the "Jacko" name be mentioned in the lead? (No.)
A2: No. The "Jacko" name should not be mentioned in the lead. Past consensus goes against such inclusion. The name is a derogatory term used primarily by US/UK/Australian tabloids. The slogan is discussed in the relevant section of the article.
Q3: Should the article mention that Jackson reportedly had cancer/blindness/liver disease/AIDS, etc.? (No.)
A3: No.
The article should not mention that Jackson reportedly had cancer, blindness, liver disease, AIDS, etc. Until such claims are confirmed by a Jackson representative it will not go in the article at all. These claims are largely fabricated by tabloids.
Q4: Should the article mention that Jackson reportedly had a secret child called Omer Bhatti? (No.)
A4: No.
This claim was denied by Bhatti and only a DNA test would resolve the matter.
Q5: Isn't Jackson the seventh child of the Jackson family, not the eighth? (No.)
A5: No.
Marlon had a twin, Brandon, who died shortly after birth. This makes Michael the eighth child.
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.
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Michael Jackson's religion was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 16 November 2009 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Michael Jackson. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.
This article has been viewed enough times to make it onto the all-time Top 100 list. It has had 133 million views since December 2007.
This article has been viewed enough times in a single year to make it into the Top 50 Report annual list. This happened in 2009, 2010, and 2011.
This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report4 times. The weeks in which this happened:
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 August 2023
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Add this to the end of the 1st paragraph of #Life and career:
Michael and his siblings were raised as Jehovah's Witnesses. He remained committed to his faith into adulthood.
Not done: This is already mentioned in the article. In § Early life and the Jackson 5, " was a Jehovah's Witness.", and in § Increased tabloid speculation, "In 1987, Jackson disassociated himself from the Jehovah's Witnesses." —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 14:27, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
§ Early Life only mentions his mom being a Jehovah's Witness, not Michael and his siblings. I also want to correct the other section. The claims of him disassociating himself from the religion were based on unconfirmed reports and were likely false. It would be worth mentioning since he never said it himself. "Jackson reportedly remained a practicing Jehovah’s Witness into adulthood, but unconfirmed reports claimed he left the religion during the late 1980s." -source In the Beliefnet article, Michael said himself that he remained religious his whole life as well as during parenthood. He continued doing missionary work until 1991 (because he had a tour) and never mentioned leaving in 1987. In 2001, he confirmed he was still a JW. In 2007, he thanked Jehovah for his writing.
To reflect this information, can changes be made to § Increased tabloid speculation:
(The last line is unclear whether he denounced the religion or the video. He denounced the video. I'm also not sure if the last 2 lines should be mentioned at all, since it's not confirmed that he left.)
In 1987, Jackson disassociated himself from the Jehovah's Witnesses. Katherine Jackson said this might have been because some Witnesses strongly opposed the Thriller video. Michael had denounced it in a Witness publication in 1984.
to
Jackson remained a practicing Jehovah's Witness during his life despite unconfirmed reports in 1987 claiming he disassociated himself. In a Beliefnet article, he stated he continued doing missionary work up to 1991. In a 2001 TV Guide interview, he confirmed he was still a Jehovah's Witness. Katherine Jackson believed he left because some Witnesses strongly opposed the Thriller video. Michael had denounced the video in a Witness publication in 1984.Squaredtrig (talk) 21:55, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
I was instructed to make a new post, which I did a few days ago on September 26. technosquirrel did not reply back to my comment, but I didn't see an objection? Squaredtrig (talk) 02:14, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
References
^ Jackson, Michael (December 2000). "My Childhood, My Sabbath, My Freedom". Beliefnet. Archived from the original on March 23, 2023. Sundays were my day for "Pioneering," the term used for the missionary work that Jehovah's Witnesses do. I continued my pioneering work for years and years after my career had been launched. When I was young, my whole family attended church together in Indiana. As we grew older, this became difficult, I was comforted by the belief that God exists in my heart, and in music and in beauty, not only in a building. But I still miss the sense of community that I felt there--I miss the friends and the people who treated me like I was simply one of them. Simply human. Sharing a day with God.
^ "The Man in the Mirror". TV Guide Magazine. November 10–16, 2001. p. 20. TVG: How did you avoid self-destruction? MJ : I think religion entered in? TVG: Are you still a Jehovah's Witness? MJ: Yeah.{{cite magazine}}: CS1 maint: date format (link)
"Michael: 25 Years After Thriller". Ebony Magazine. December 2007. p. 98. When I write something that I know is right, I get on my knees and say thank you. Thank you Jehovah!
"Michael Jackson's Spiritual Journey". Indianapolis Recorder. July 8, 2009. Archived from the original on April 19, 2023. Jackson reportedly remained a practicing Jehovah's Witness during his life, but unconfirmed reports claimed he left the religion during the late 1980s.
TV Concert Broadcasts
Could something be added on the page about Michael's television concert events. For starters, Japan Tour '87 (1987 broadcast in Japan of the September 26, 1987 show in Yokohama), Live In Concert In Bucharest: The Dangerous Tour (1992 worldwide broadcast of the Bucharest show on October 1, 1992, which was released on DVD in 2005), HIStory: Live In Bucharest: 1996 (1996 broadcast in Romania of the performance in Bucharest),HIStory: Live In Kuala Lumpur 1996 (TV1000 broadcast of the October 29, 1996 concert), Live In Auckland (1996 Zew Zealand broadcast of the November 11, concert (Notable for being the last known recording of "Come Together" / "D.S." medley live)), HIStory Live (1997 worldwide broadcast and canceled DVD release of the July 6, 1997 show in Munich, Germany), Live In Gothenburg 1997 (1997 Swedish broadcast of the show in Gothenburg by TV1000), Michael Jackson: 30th Anniversary Celebration (2001-2002 broadcasts of Michael Jackson's 30th Anniversary Celebration in New York City), HIStory: Live In Tunis 1996 (2010 broadcast that aired in Tunisia).
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 September 2023
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"... was viewed by more than an estimated 2.5 billion people globally" does not read correctly. Suggest that this is changed to e.g. "... was estimated to have been viewed by more than 2.5 billion people globally", or any other logical wording that editors prefer. 2A00:23C8:7B09:FA01:C190:26E8:7937:4CD0 (talk) 12:26, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".
The edit may be made by any extended confirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{EEp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.
In #Life and career under §Early life and the Jackson 5 (1958–1975), add this to the end of the 1st paragraph:
Michael and his siblings were raised as Jehovah's Witnesses. He remained committed to his faith into adulthood.
And also in #Life and career under §Increased tabloid speculation (1986–1987) in the last paragraph, change:
In 1987, Jackson disassociated himself from the Jehovah's Witnesses. Katherine Jackson said this might have been because some Witnesses strongly opposed the Thriller video. Michael had denounced it in a Witness publication in 1984.
to
Jackson remained a practicing Jehovah's Witness during his life despite unconfirmed reports in 1987 claiming he disassociated himself. In a Beliefnet article, he stated he continued doing missionary work up to 1991. In a 2001 TV Guide interview, he confirmed he was still a Jehovah's Witness. Katherine Jackson believed he left because some Witnesses strongly opposed the Thriller video. Michael had denounced the video in a Witness publication in 1984.
Reasoning:
§Early Life: Only mentions his mom being a Jehovah's Witness, not Michael and his siblings.
§Increased tabloid speculation: The claims of him disassociating himself from the religion were based on unconfirmed reports and were likely false. It should be mentioned since he never said it himself. "Jackson reportedly remained a practicing Jehovah’s Witness into adulthood, but unconfirmed reports claimed he left the religion during the late 1980s." -source In the Beliefnet article, Michael said himself that he remained religious his whole life as well as during parenthood. He continued doing missionary work until 1991 (because he had a tour) and never mentioned leaving in 1987. In a 2001 interview with TV Guide Magazine, he confirmed he was still a JW. Here is the full quote: TVG: How did you avoid self-destruction? MJ : I think religion entered in? TVG: Are you still a Jehovah's Witness? MJ: Yeah. In 2007, he thanked Jehovah for his writing.
I think it's a bit tricky, because one can remain religious, and remain a Christian specifically, and thank Jehovah, without actively belonging to a specific denomination. BD2412T04:48, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
@BD2412: In a 2001 interview with TV Guide Magazine, he clearly stated he was a Jehovah's Witness. To quote: "TVG: Are you still a Jehovah's Witness? Michael Jackson: Yeah. His Misplaced Pages page currently states In 1987, Jackson disassociated himself from the Jehovah's Witnesses which should be changed because it was never confirmed that he left. Squaredtrig (talk) 06:12, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
Examining the sources provided by Squaredtrig: the first one doesn't say Jackson remained a Jehovah's Witness. The second one (an essay written by Jackson) was published on Beliefnet, which appears to be a website about faith in general, and Jackson doesn't get specific about which denomination he belongs to at the time of writing.
However, the third source seems pretty unambiguous. I'm not seeing any reason why we couldn't simply keep the current wording and add this at the end: "In 2001, Jackson told an interviewer he was still a Jehovah's Witness."
Regarding the current claim in the article that In 1987, Jackson disassociated himself from the Jehovah's Witnesses, that's cited to an Ebony source which writes: Although he has disassociated himself as one of the religious society's ministers who gives exclusive devotion to Jehovah, I don't actually know what that means — is every Jehovah's Witness a "minister" (ie it means he was no longer a member of the organization), or is that a type of position within the organization? Popcornfud (talk) 11:51, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
§Early Life request: The TV Guide source says he did remain a JW as an adult. At the very least, I suggest changing to state that Michael and his siblings were raised as JWs rather than their mom.
§Increased tabloid speculation request: The Beliefnet essay was posted in December 2000 so we can deduce that he belonged to the JW because of the 2001 TV Guide source. He did JW pioneering work up to 1991, one wouldn't do this unless they were somewhat still associated. I think that should be mentioned too. The Ebony source about the ministers is ambiguous. I suggest changing to the original request above or to In 1987, Jackson reportedly disassociated himself from the Jehovah's Witnesses. @PopcornfudSquaredtrig (talk) 23:05, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 October 2023
This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".
The edit may be made by any extended confirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{EEp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.
There should be an update to the Death#Posthumous child sexual abuse allegations section.
At the end of the second paragraph, the following should be added:
"In 2020, a state law passed in California which granted plaintiffs in child sex abuse cases an additional period to file lawsuits. In October 2020 and again in April 2021, the Los Angeles County Superior Court ruled that MJJ Productions Inc. and MJJ Ventures Inc. employees were not legally obligated to protect the two men from Jackson. In August 2023, California’s Second District Court of Appeal overturned the ruling, and the case was approved to move forward to trial court."
^ Jackson, Michael (December 2000). "My Childhood, My Sabbath, My Freedom". Beliefnet. Archived from the original on March 23, 2023. Sundays were my day for "Pioneering," the term used for the missionary work that Jehovah's Witnesses do. I continued my pioneering work for years and years after my career had been launched. When I was young, my whole family attended church together in Indiana. As we grew older, this became difficult, I was comforted by the belief that God exists in my heart, and in music and in beauty, not only in a building. But I still miss the sense of community that I felt there--I miss the friends and the people who treated me like I was simply one of them. Simply human. Sharing a day with God.
^ "The Man in the Mirror". TV Guide Magazine. November 10–16, 2001. p. 20. TVG: How did you avoid self-destruction? MJ : I think religion entered in? TVG: Are you still a Jehovah's Witness? MJ: Yeah.{{cite magazine}}: CS1 maint: date format (link)
"Michael Jackson's Spiritual Journey". Indianapolis Recorder. July 8, 2009. Archived from the original on April 19, 2023. Jackson reportedly remained a practicing Jehovah's Witness during his life, but unconfirmed reports claimed he left the religion during the late 1980s.
"Michael: 25 Years After Thriller". Ebony Magazine. December 2007. p. 98. When I write something that I know is right, I get on my knees and say thank you. Thank you Jehovah!
view · edit Frequently asked questions
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Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. We have sources showing "Joseph". Meters (talk) 05:15, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
Done Good idea. Popcornfud (talk) 13:49, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
