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Retrived edit

I change the description of this village ("Kfar" is village in Hebrew) from "settelment" to "kibbutz". That because this vilagge defines itself and has to properties of a Kibbutz. I think that the name "settelment" is misleading (it is usually used for Israeli settlement, while Kfar Aza is within the Green Line (Israel)). Please accept the change. Yonathan33 (talk) 19:48, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

I think "community" is fine. I'm trying to not overuse "kibbutz", and I think it fits as an alternate. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 20:09, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Beheadings

I'm getting a bit of mixed feedback on these claims from RS upon a more thorough examination; none seem to be willing to put the claims in their own voice. While we're waiting for more information, is there a better way to describe this stuff? Should we omit it until we get independent verification, or should we keep it attributed to the soldiers on-scene, as it is now? — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 20:48, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Not 100% sure either. BBC reports, with a correspondent on the ground, that civilians were beheaded (at least one woman). The commander the journalist talked to - David Ben Zion - also stated that only some of the civilians were beheaded, and not all. The Times of Israel also stated that the dead babies claim came from another journalist from i24 talking to a commander in the town (unsure whether same one as BBC article). Itai Veruv also claimed there were dead babies, but not necessarily in Kfar Aza.

The Hill stated that the decapitated babies claim came from an interview between Nicole Zedeck of i24 and Ben Zion. The Hill article also stated that an Israeli major heard claims of decapitated babies, but there were no photos or videos. Currently, all claims come from Israeli soldiers in the town and Ben Zion. The AA article also states that the Israeli government couldn't confirm the babies claim.

I think it's best to add the claims of the decapitated babies into the article - they are one of the reasons the massacre is so notoriously gruesome - but mention that all claims came from the soldiers in the town and their commander Ben Zion, with no photo or video evidence available, along with the Israeli govt's lack of knowledge per AA. Jebiguess (talk) 21:01, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Jebiguess, all the sources do not include the claim that all of them were beheaded. These are some of the 40 babies who were murdered.

This journalist (Margot Haddat) claims she confirmed:

https://nypost.com/2023/10/10/hamas-kills-40-babies-and-children-beheading-some-of-them-at-israeli-kibbutz-report/ שמי (2023) (talk) 21:46, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

First off, the NYPost is not generally considered a reliable source, and the article doesn't make any claims I haven't mentioned above. Haddad's tweet, however, adds more clarity to the claims. This Daily Dot article is pretty good at explaining the history of the claim, and it's assessment of the baby killings was that it appears to be true. No one is denying that the killings of the babies happened, only that the specific claims about 40 babies should be mentioned with a degree of caution until more journalists enter Kfar Aza and more primary and secondary sources are available. Jebiguess (talk) 21:57, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

From what I’ve been told about Judaism, photographing corpses is bad. Honoring the dead is important, and there is something I don’t quite understand about witnessing corpses making people impure (again not a Judaism expert). All that is to say, there may be a cultural/religious reason that we aren’t seeing these pics. Hi Biktor627 (talk) 10:45, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

The President of United States, Joe Biden confirmed that he saw photo evidence of babies beheading: “I’ve been doing this a long time. I never really thought that I would see, have confirmed, pictures of terrorists beheading children.”

However later White House press retracted the claim as: A White House spokesperson later clarified that US officials and the president have not seen pictures or confirmed such reports independently.

It will be a lot more helpful to cite all pieces edited. LeJawwad (talk) 12:16, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

The White House released a statement clarifying that “Biden hasn’t seen pictures or confirmed such reports” so he lied, stop spreading propaganda

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12621085/amp/joe-biden-confirms-pictures-Hamas-beheading-children.html Areejdf (talk) 21:02, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Two things:

1. The NY Post made be deprecated, but all they are doing is reposting the independent confirmations from Haddat (though it may be better to wait until it's actually published)

2. Other RS have independently corroborated the claims made by the IDF:

• The Messenger: "Dozens of babies were brutally murdered — some even decapitated — by Hamas terrorists inside a kibbutz in southern Israel during Saturday's shocking assault on Israeli civilians, according to journalists who were let in to see the aftermath of the massacre"
• CNN: What I saw, hundreds of terrorists in full armor, full gear, with all the equipment and all the ability make a massacre. Go from apartment to apartment, from room to room and kill babies, mothers, fathers in their bedrooms… They locked themselves in the protection rooms of their houses and people were out with their children and they killed them. They killed babies in front of their parents, and then killed the parents. They killed parents and we found babies between the dogs and the family killed before him. They cut heads of the people."

Longhornsg (talk) 00:33, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Now CBS, citing a direct eyewitness first responder (not the Israeli military or government):

• "Yossi Landau, the head of operations for the southern region of Zaka, Israel's volunteer civilian emergency response organization, told CBS News on Wednesday that he personally saw adults and children, including babies, who had been beheaded."

Longhornsg (talk) 14:41, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

This CBS News article implies that they did not confirm the report themselves nor receive corroboration from anyone else. It is my understanding that news organizations will often require more corroboration/confirmation that just that before making less serious claims. This feels like an instance of a news organization letting its standards slip in order to fit a preconceived narrative. It may ultimately turn out that these claims are true, but I do not feel that this specific news article meets Misplaced Pages's guidelines for a credible source. ROADKILL (talk) 08:23, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

The Times of Israel source cited in the article states "A reporter from i24 News said that an IDF commander told her that they had found the bodies of some 40 babies, some of whom had been beheaded." i24NEWS cited David Ben Zion as the IDF commander who made those claims. In 2021, David Ben Zion was the Deputy Head of the Samaria Council according to 7ISRAEL National News. In February 2023, Ben David was reported by 7ISRAEL to have said "the village of Hvara should be wiped out, this place is a nest of terror and the punishment should be for everyone". "Enough with nice talk about building and strengthening settlements," "The other inline source in that sentence is paywalled. If it's reliable at all, can someone with access be more specific as to what it says? Are there any other, better sources or do we intend to rely on one statement made by someone who wants to wipe out Palestinian villages? Kire1975 (talk) 09:49, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

The Times wrote

We can attribute it rather than stating in the wikivoice in the meantime. Alaexis_¿question? 12:29, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Kire1975, please be more careful. This edit summary is irrelevant and completely unnecessary. Don't throw around factoids or claims or suggestive remarks that can easily be misunderstood or misapplied. Drmies (talk) 12:41, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Factoid? Suggestive remark? Instead of casting aspersions, could be you be specific? Kire1975 (talk) 19:59, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 October 2023

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Firsty, the article contains viral false information that 40 children are claimed to have been beheaded, which went viral after a misrepresentation by Belarusian media.

This should be added:

The Belarusian media outlet NEXTA claimed "Israel showed the world bodies of 40 beheaded Israeli babies", which went viral, despite being a misrepresentation.

Secondly, the inclusion of journalists on site validates these these allegations if it does not clarify that the journalists that accessed the site have not witnessed any evidence of beheadings.

This should be added:

Journalists that accessed the site have not witnessed any evidence of beheadings. SluggishSchizophrenic (talk) 21:26, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

References

1. "How a shocking report on '40 babies' in Israel was deemed viral disinformation—despite never being debunked". Daily Dot. Retrieved 10 October 2023.

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. See discussion above. ARandomName123 (talk) 14:04, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

"Massacre"

• The Independent
• Washington Post
• Times of Israel
• ABC (Australia)

Longhornsg (talk) 00:24, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Potentially useful source for expanding

Ynet. It's in Hebrew, of which I don't understand anything, but it appears to be fairly detailed based off of the google translation. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 02:01, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 October 2023

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Following a discussion in the article's Talk page I ask you to replace the word "settlement" when refering to Kfar Aza in the word "Kibbutz" or "Community". The word "settlement" is misleading because it is usually used to describe Israeli settlement while Kfar Aza is within the Green Line (Israel). Yonathan33 (talk) 06:32, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

 Done ARandomName123 (talk) 14:06, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Confirmation from second hand source that children were indeed beheaded

Too macabre, as reporter states, for me to discuss further. In French. Here you go... https://twitter.com/margothaddad/status/1711756690574479651#m

No more disputes over this matter 2601:40:C481:A940:E908:2F8E:C8E4:99D6 (talk) 07:45, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Where are the children??? This photo already have been confirmed that it belongs to adults https://fr.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/ni-une-guerre-ni-un-champ-de-bataille-mais-un-massacre-un-officier-superieur-sur-les-lieux-du-massacre-du-kibboutz/ Areejdf (talk) 10:43, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 October 2023 (2)

It is requested that an edit be made to the extended-confirmed-protected article at Kfar Aza massacre. (edit · history · last · links · protection log) This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". The edit may be made by any extended confirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{EEp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

2607:FEA8:3B5E:4E00:398A:D8F8:A897:F296 (talk) 22:36, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

the report about the beheading of babies has been discredited, this post is extremely biased, please look at the sources and the content of this page.

Sources:

• i24news
• CBS
• New York Post
• Independant

New york post and CBS by the way is not known for supporting Israeli agenda. But I guess you'll keep calling it biased untill you see the pictures yourself? דוב (talk) 23:00, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 October 2023

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

In the line "and it had taken two for the Israel Defense Forces to wrest back full control of the community." would it better if it were "and it had taken two days for the Israel Defense Forces.." Milktime (talk) 00:04, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

 Already done Looks like the change has already been made: ...and it took two days for the Israel Defense Forces to wrest back full control of the community. (revision 1179733653) Qzekrom (she/her • talk) 03:10, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

The 40 babies story is a false accusation and the story has debunked

The one who spreads the lie, tweeted that she doesn’t know for a fact if it happened or not https://x.com/beltrew/status/1712023042560291083?s=46&t=KbbT_q4q8xaJ5tlDeA-aKA [ also the Israel army didn’t confirm the story https://theintercept.com/2023/10/11/israel-hamas-disinformation/]https://theintercept.com/2023/10/11/israel-hamas-disinformation/ . Misplaced Pages, be accurate for once and delete the false article Areejdf (talk) 05:05, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

It did happen

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-babies-killed-hamas-terror-attack-kibbutz-kfar-aza-first-responders-say/ David O. Johnson (talk) 05:21, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

where is the evidence of the 40 babies being slaughtered? Give me the proof, a picture of their dead bodies or a funeral, and what about their families statements!! I have numerous pictures and proofs of Palestinians kids being killed and tortured by Israel. Areejdf (talk) 05:35, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

This CBS News article cites a spokesperson from Israel's military, and does not claim that that CBS has received any other corroboration. I do not believe that claims from the Israeli military can be seriously considered as credible without corroboration. Would we consider an uncorroborated and unconfirmed claim by the Russian military as sufficient? Or to use a more famous and specific example, if a media outlet reported that a US Government spokesperson said that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction, would we accept that as a credible citation for the claim that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction? The answer, I hope, would clearly be NO.

Respectfully, this does not meet Misplaced Pages's guidelines for a credible citation of 40 beheaded babies. ROADKILL (talk) 08:03, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

"This CBS News article cites a spokesperson from Israel's military, and does not claim that that CBS has received any other corroboration."

That's not true.

It's right in the middle of the CBS article:

"Yossi Landau, the head of operations for the southern region of Zaka, Israel's volunteer civilian emergency response organization, told CBS News he saw with his own eyes children and babies who had been beheaded."

"I saw a lot more that cannot be described for now, because it's very hard to describe," he said, speaking of parents and children found with their hands bound and clear signs of torture." David O. Johnson (talk) 08:11, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

You are correct that that was NOT a military spokesperson. I unfortunately misread the article and apologize for my mistake. That being said, I still do not believe that this is sufficient to meet Misplaced Pages's guidelines for a credible source. The article implies that they did not confirm it themselves nor get anyone else to corroborate the claim. That doesn't mean this won't turn out to be true, but for now I believe that we lack sufficient corroboration to report this claim as fact. ROADKILL (talk) 08:17, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

It is better to remove that part. We can add it back once proof is available. That shouldn't be hard as these kids must have families and they will make public statements later 117.219.135.238 (talk) 09:55, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

I agree with removing the children part, unless Misplaced Pages wants to promote propaganda which is not acceptable Areejdf (talk) 10:45, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages operates based on WP:RS, not on what a new SPA account happens to believe or not believe. Jeppiz (talk) 11:46, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

@ROADKILL, your argument seems moot. Nowhere in this article does it say that there were 40 beheaded babies. It says that some victims were beheaded, and it says also babies were killed. Both of those claims are verified in numerous reliable sources. I agree it should not say there were "40 beheaded babies" but I don't see that claim in the article. Jeppiz (talk) 09:14, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

False accusations!!

These are false accusations just to turn the world against Palestine fair cause. Not a single authority announced it, moreover, the reporter denied seeing it and said she "heard" it from a soldier. No photos nor videos were announced.Actually, these are the actual crime details of the IDF in Sabra and Shatila Massacre!! 2001:8F8:192F:3972:B52A:B6C0:F2C1:4725 (talk) 05:17, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

It's not false.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-babies-killed-hamas-terror-attack-kibbutz-kfar-aza-first-responders-say/ David O. Johnson (talk) 05:21, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

I didn't knew that babies supposed to be that big!! Refer to Reporter "Oren Zev" on twitter to know the truth if you want people! 2001:8F8:192F:3972:B52A:B6C0:F2C1:4725 (talk) 06:44, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

First, Misplaced Pages is not a forum. Second, Twitter is, in itself, as far from a reliable source as one can get. Jeppiz (talk) 08:41, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Lede removal

Hi,

In this edit here , information was removed from the lede, with the edit summary reading, "Non notable, please give the solid reference", but the sources are given in the body of the article.

The lede isn't supposed to have any references, anyways. David O. Johnson (talk) 08:18, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

That removal looks like downright vandalism, or complete lack of knowledge of WP policies. Reported in leading media throughout the world. Jeppiz (talk) 08:39, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Disinformation

This article is disinformation. Multiple news outlet have back tracked the story detailed here and no concrete evidence has been provided to back up this claim. All we have is hear say from the IDF and they have even made comments to say they have no evidence to back up this claim. This article should be removed until it has concrete confirmation that this has occurred. PatsyJ69 (talk) 13:49, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Everything you say is wrong. Multiple journalists have visited Kfar Aza and independently confirmed the massacre. It has been reported in detail in media of record in English, Spanish, French, German, Italian etc. That some propaganda accounts on Twitter say otherwise is entirely irrelevant. We go by WP:RS on Misplaced Pages. Jeppiz (talk) 14:04, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Oh, is that so? Could you point me to a single article that does not just point to the claim made by an IDF soldier or other articles that point to that IDF soldier's claim? I'm guessing you can't.

You guys keep on getting caught in a lie. Biden had to walk back his lie about having seen the bodies.

When the dust has settled and the full truth is out, I will do everything I can to make sure you face sanctions from Misplaced Pages for spreading these inflammatory lies. 128.84.126.211 (talk) 14:26, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

While it is not true it's just an IDF soldier's claim, it wouldn't matter even if it were. Again, WP:RS applies. If BBC, CNN, The Times, Le Monde, Die Zeit and others all held the evidence credible, so would Misplaced Pages. Also, read WP:NPA and WP:NOTAFORUM. Jeppiz (talk) 14:58, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Jeppiz, here. Just listing the number of mainstream news sources that endorse the rumour means nothing. I worked for months in Kfar Aza, so I have a personal emotional investment in seeing that shocking massacre correctly written up. The only ostensible reason I have found given to explain the government's curious ongoing refusal to state unambiguously that they have proof children were beheaded (as opposed to some shot in the head) is the one that suggests respect for the dead means the photographic evidence, if there is any, cannot be made public. Special pleading. No one wants to see such evidence made public - they simply want to be sure that such evidence exists, and has been independently shared with the President of the US and the intelligence communities. Nishidani (talk) 15:24, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

@Nishidani, you are 100% correct. We should not repeat rumours and need to be careful. I wrote above I am not in favor of including a claim of beheaded kids, because I have not seen sufficient WP:RS support. What I have seen widely reported is mass killings, killing of babies (method not stated) and some beheadings. In this subthread, the IP claims that nothing happened and this article should be deleted. That is clearly nonsense. Between denying everything and repeating unsubstantiated claims, there's a middle road of repeating the facts that are supported. Jeppiz (talk) 15:31, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

I think it is fair to say there is some solid confirmation now.

Jerusalem Post tweet about independently verifying it:

https://twitter.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/1712460425529372821

Warning NSFW or NSFL: https://twitter.com/israelipm/status/1712471782303867144?s=46

I think having alleged was appropriate since there was no pure confirmation previously, but I don't see why the JPost or Israel would make this up.

Entirely possible that they're AI generated images, but it seems unlikely. 1.157.208.97 (talk) 15:35, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

twitter link expired photos taken down

jfc 69.249.102.223 (talk) 15:51, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

backup, again NSFW: https://imgur.com/a/EWSpqbM

again, entirely possible that this is Israeli propaganda but seems unlikely. 1.157.208.97 (talk) 15:58, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

40 babies beheaded.

This is a outrageous lie, IDF Itself put out an statement that It is a false accusation.

There is no evidence whatsoever, It is a lie and whoever wrote it Is spreading lies about the resistance of Palestinians. S.AbdulBasit20 (talk) 15:45, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

it seems your the one with the personal agenda here

not a single reliable western source has outright denied the claims thus far. just that many have not 100% confirmed it

there is enough eyewitness testimonial to include it in the article, plus the controversy itself is enough to warrant its inclusion 69.249.102.223 (talk) 15:50, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

S.AbdulBasit20, the article doesn't claim that. Pick a fight somewhere else. Drmies (talk) 16:40, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Numerous policy violations by User Makeandtoss

User Makeandtoss just did a number of drastic and undiscussed changes, in violation of all sources. Makeandtoss removed from the lede the sentence that killings and beheadings took place, despite it being well sourced. Makeandtoss instead inserted, multiple times, the utterly irrelevant claim that no verification exists for "40 beheaded babies"; a claim the article didn't even make. This is shockingly poor editing, even worse in an article under ArbCom protection. Having reverted once today, I hope someone (in the best case Makeandtoss themselves) will revert these remarkably poor edits. Jeppiz (talk) 17:13, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Yeah,I think the "beheaded babies" allegation is somewhat of a red herring. Mainstream sources don't seem to actually doubt that children were killed in the massacre. Hemiauchenia (talk) 17:17, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

For the record, I've brought this issue to ANI as it is just one of many policy violations on ArbPia articles by Makeandtoss in the past few days. Jeppiz (talk) 17:44, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

I reverted the changes discussed above, although retaining a SkyNews source which might be helpful. It's probably fair to say that there is some "confusion" about beheadings, ages and numbers, so I left a remark to that effect. -St.nerol (talk) 18:38, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

@St.nerol Should the links to Decapitation and Dismemberment not be removed from the Attack Type heading for this article, given that the claims are disputed? Including them there makes it seem as though it were unquestionably factual. Wschreyer (talk) 19:48, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

40 babies beheaded

Israeli officials claimed 40 babies were beheaded, and then continuously contradicted themselves. The decapitated children unconfirmed claim spread so wildly that it was uttered by the president of the United States, who, to make things worse, claimed to see pictures of it. This certainly deserves to be mentioned in the lede, not only because it has negative implications, but also because the lede is a summary of the body including any prominent controversies. Furthermore, I have not seen any source reporting on alleged decapitation. "with beheadings, dismemberment and the killing of children being reported, although with some confusion" is not a descriptive and honest sentence on what had happened, and certainly doesn't reflect reliable sources and the investigative reports done by CNN and Sky News (in contrast to the initial parroting done by some RS without question). Makeandtoss (talk) 19:24, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

There are two separate claims here: "babies were decapitated" and "children (including babies) were killed". The controversy here seems to specifically be about whether babies were specifically decapitated, not whether babies were killed by Hamas, which does not seem to be widely disputed. Hemiauchenia (talk) 19:35, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

No babies were killed and no babies were beheaded. There is no single piece of evidence to proof this. 89.205.128.124 (talk) 19:39, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

The journalist was there saw dead babies. The are videos who published about the killing. 2A00:A041:1CE0:0:A898:B2DC:56E4:2D45 (talk) 19:41, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

The journalist walked it back and tweeted that she hasn’t seen dead bodies

https://x.com/beltrew/status/1712023042560291083?s=46&t=KbbT_q4q8xaJ5tlDeA-aKA Areejdf (talk) 21:07, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

They did not claimed it and they were not officials. It was people who was there. The israeli government listen to them . The essay at Misplaced Pages contradict the sources. just read the sources. They are from the beginning spoke about *part* of them, not *all* of them.

From the first: "including about 40 babies and small children — **some** with their heads chopped off. .

I add the zaka man, the journalist (Margot Haddat). 2A00:A041:1CE0:0:A898:B2DC:56E4:2D45 (talk) 19:40, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

What was this claim based on?

Are there human rights reports? Is there any photo or video? Just statements by Israeli officials!! There is even no certificate proving this from the residents!! I hope you see a tweet by an Israeli journalist that he posted on Twitter!--— Osama Eid 20:20, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

not officals is a source here, soldiers and zaka man that were there. a part of the journalists too. Biden saw picures and have confirmed https://twitter.com/OrenZiv_/status/1712220515283157334 ( he did not mentioned the place ). israel is still collecting the bodies and identifing. a lot of families did not got a massege that their loved person was died or they proccessing it after they heared. There are over 1,300 dead, of which over 1,050 civilians were murdered following the attack launched by Hamas in the Western Negev at 7-8 october , including women, children and the elderly, including dozens of foreign citizens. Injured: about 3,200. and also kidnapped. There are a lot of witnesses and events at a lot of places. For example this ] . The Israelis themselves are traumatized. What is needed is time.

Hamas as a worldview used to encourage and carry out stabbing, shooting and even suicide attacks ( such as Nahariya train station suicide bombing ). The target was also civilians. He also did this during the attempts to hold peace talks between the PLO and Israel. This is as part of his declared worldview, an Islamist state instead of Israel. Here he succeeded in doing it en masse.

What happened is reason enough to fight Hamas, regardless of the speciific topic of discussion here. שמי (2023) (talk) 22:45, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Al Mayadeen complains about this article

See . This might a source of some of the disruption. Given that Al Mayadeen is widely seen as a pro-Syria/Hezbollah propaganda outlet, I don't think their criticism are worth giving a toss about. Hemiauchenia (talk) 20:14, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

We should not pay attention to news sites that are not neutral (such as Al-Mayadeen), but we should search for the truth as well, and continue to implement all Misplaced Pages policies, including neutrality and documenting the truth. See Oren Ziv — Osama Eid 20:24, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 October 2023 (2)

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change One member of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) who had responded to the site said in an interview with I24NEWS that some corpses of the killed 40 children had been discovered beheaded, Israeli soldiers in the town stated that several civilians had been beheaded. CBS News later interviewed Yossi Landau, regional head of the first responder organisation ZAKA, who corroborated that both babies and minors had been beheaded alongside corpses of dismembered adults.

The IDF stated to Insider that they would not investigate the allegation further, citing that it would be "disrespectful for the dead" to do so. to the information about the casualties number being 40 children was proven to be false Aishasaltt (talk) 21:56, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

 Not done Please establish a consensus before making an edit request. Hemiauchenia (talk) 21:58, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

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