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	] (]) 01:09, 11 January 2016 (UTC)		] (]) 01:09, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
	:Thanks. (You may see that I self-reverted my reversion of your edit. Unfortunately, that probably happened while you were penning the above exposition.) ] (]) 01:32, 11 January 2016 (UTC)		:Thanks. (You may see that I self-reverted my reversion of your edit. Unfortunately, that probably happened while you were penning the above exposition.) ] (]) 01:32, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

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	Cheers.—]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS;">]:Online</sub></small> 10:56, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

	== Order Insignia ==		== Order Insignia ==

	I've noticed that the insignia of the order has been changed from the famous one to the flag of the Knights of Rhodes. Yes I know the red & white St George's cross symbol is the original one, and also the symbol of the Knights of St John, and the most famous grand master was known as 'Grand Master of the Knights of Saint John' and he bore that symbol. But the Black & White one is the most well known and it was the one they bore on the crusades, and what they who're on an every day basis. So please just change it back. ] (]) 20:13, 15 July 2016 (UTC)		I've noticed that the insignia of the order has been changed from the famous one to the flag of the Knights of Rhodes. Yes I know the red & white St George's cross symbol is the original one, and also the symbol of the Knights of St John, and the most famous grand master was known as 'Grand Master of the Knights of Saint John' and he bore that symbol. But the Black & White one is the most well known and it was the one they bore on the crusades, and what they who're on an every day basis. So please just change it back. ] (]) 20:13, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

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	== Female members of the order ==		== Female members of the order ==

	I don't know were this should be placed, but it is certainly relevant. Normally, the order did not accept female members in the 16th-century, but it had one exception to that rule: the order made Donna ] the first Knight of Devotion of their Order after the death of her father Count Federico, who died in 1598, because they had promised to make his unborn firstborn a knight, and when it proved to be a girl, they still had to keep their word: --] (]) 14:33, 27 October 2016 (UTC)		I don't know were this should be placed, but it is certainly relevant. Normally, the order did not accept female members in the 16th-century, but it had one exception to that rule: the order made Donna ] the first Knight of Devotion of their Order after the death of her father Count Federico, who died in 1598, because they had promised to make his unborn firstborn a knight, and when it proved to be a girl, they still had to keep their word: --] (]) 14:33, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

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	== Help with Commons categories ==		== Help with Commons categories ==

	Wikimedia commons has categories for ], ], ] and ], and there seems to be some real overlap between these. I thought I'd ask here for advice on which are really useful for categorizing images and other media, and which might be merged. Just to emphasize, I'm not proposing merging the wikipedia articles, which are obviously distinct, just the categorization of images. Thanks. - ] (]) 15:47, 28 January 2019 (UTC)		Wikimedia commons has categories for ], ], ] and ], and there seems to be some real overlap between these. I thought I'd ask here for advice on which are really useful for categorizing images and other media, and which might be merged. Just to emphasize, I'm not proposing merging the wikipedia articles, which are obviously distinct, just the categorization of images. Thanks. - ] (]) 15:47, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

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	== Move discussion in progress ==		== Move discussion in progress ==

	There is a move discussion in progress on ] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Sovereign Military Order of Malta crosspost --> —] 18:00, 19 December 2019 (UTC)		There is a move discussion in progress on ] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Sovereign Military Order of Malta crosspost --> —] 18:00, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Revision as of 12:44, 20 October 2023

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Order dissolved "c. 1800"?

On what basis is it claimed that the Order was disestablished in c. 1800? It did lose its territory in 1798, and although it was much weaker than it was prior to the French invasion, it remained active throughout the 19th century:

it was mentioned in the Treaty of Amiens in 1802
Sweden offered the island of Gotland to the Order in 1806
it settled in Rome as the SMOM in 1834
Giovanni Battista Ceschi a Santa Croce became GM in 1879

This comment might be of interest to User:Kwekubo, User:BushelCandle and User:Chicbyaccident.

Xwejnusgozo (talk) 01:09, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. (You may see that I self-reverted my reversion of your edit. Unfortunately, that self-reversion probably happened while you were penning the above exposition.) BushelCandle (talk) 01:32, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Order Insignia

I've noticed that the insignia of the order has been changed from the famous one to the flag of the Knights of Rhodes. Yes I know the red & white St George's cross symbol is the original one, and also the symbol of the Knights of St John, and the most famous grand master was known as 'Grand Master of the Knights of Saint John' and he bore that symbol. But the Black & White one is the most well known and it was the one they bore on the crusades, and what they who're on an every day basis. So please just change it back. Dragon25920 (talk) 20:13, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

@Dragon25920: The red and white flag was the one used by the Order while it was in Malta, and it is still in use by the SMOM. It was the flag flown on the Order's ships (eg. File:SantaAnnaXVIII.jpg, File:Ex Voto of a Naval Battle between a Turkish ship from Alger and a ship of the Order of Malta under Langon 1719.jpg) and also on land (eg. File:Siege of malta 3.jpg). The Order's coat of arms consists of a white cross on a red background, and it was used as such both in Rhodes (eg. File:Rhodos016.JPG, File:Rhodos273.JPG) and in Malta (eg. File:Wignacourt Water Tower inscription and coat-of-arms.jpeg, File:Malta - Mellieha - Triq il-Mistra - Mistra Coastal Battery 09 ies.jpg). The eight-pointed Maltese cross was also used to represent the Order (eg. File:Detail in der St. John's Co-Cathedral, Valetta, Malta Nov 2014.JPG, File:Grandmasters Palace Valletta n04.jpg), but the St. George's cross was much more commonly used, so I think it is best to have the St. George's cross flag (or coat of arms?) at the top of the page. Xwejnusgozo (talk) 11:20, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

Female members of the order

I don't know were this should be placed, but it is certainly relevant. Normally, the order did not accept female members in the 16th-century, but it had one exception to that rule: the order made Donna Eleonora Spadafora Sambuca the first Knight of Devotion of their Order after the death of her father Count Federico, who died in 1598, because they had promised to make his unborn firstborn a knight, and when it proved to be a girl, they still had to keep their word: --Aciram (talk) 14:33, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

SMOM Lease on Malta

There is a comment in SMOM on the lease for the Fort St Angelo. I didn't find any specific links but it is mentioned here - http://www.culturemalta.org/51/61/The-Knights-Hospitallers-and-Malta- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Magicalyak (talk • contribs) 17:20, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 3 February 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved Consensus is that the current title is appropriate for this article. (non-admin closure) TonyBallioni (talk) 20:21, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Knights Hospitaller → Template:History of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta – To get things straight; straghten out the content mess a bit of this article and its relation to the article Sovereign Military Order of Malta, which contains chunks over overlapping content. Lots of reasons: the List of Princes and Grand Masters of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta already treat these two articles as if they would be renamed, as do other articles, etc. Chicbyaccident (talk) 14:35, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Oppose. I have no idea why you are proposing this. I assume you do not mean a move into templatespace. In any case, "Knights Hospitaller" is a perfectly good article title for the subject. Srnec (talk) 03:53, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

I suppose a mistake using the move request, that should be History of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta. --Robertiki (talk) 14:03, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, thanks for the correction! Chicbyaccident (talk) 16:00, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

Oppose this is a common name, and indeed far more common in historical sources than SMOM. However, I would support a clarification of the scope of the two articles, with "Knights Hospitaller" referring to the history of the Order from the foundation to the loss of Malta, and SMOM to everything after. Constantine ✍ 17:54, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Help with Commons categories

Wikimedia commons has categories for Commons:Category:Sovrano Ordine di San Giovanni di Gerusalemme, Commons:Category:Sovereign Order of Saint John of Jerusalem, Commons:Category:Sovereign Military Order of Malta and Commons:Category:Knights Hospitaller, and there seems to be some real overlap between these. I thought I'd ask here for advice on which are really useful for categorizing images and other media, and which might be merged. Just to emphasize, I'm not proposing merging the wikipedia articles, which are obviously distinct, just the categorization of images. Thanks. - Themightyquill (talk) 15:47, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

The first homosexual state of the middle ages?

I heard that Malta was one of the first fully homosexual states in the Christian West. I studied in a Polish seminary, and this is not a secret to us. During the reign of the Knights, homosexuality was in no way punished and even encouraged. Thousands of men cohabited with each other, held together by same-sex love, so they defended Malta with such courage during the Turkish attack. They were ashamed to retreat, looking at their homosexual partners. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.155.5.245 (talk) 11:55, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

'you heard' is not a valid source for Misplaced Pages - if you have a scholarly account, list it - otherwise this looks like vandalism, AGF excepted ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.169.24.168 (talk) 08:47, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Sovereign Military Order of Malta which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 18:00, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

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