Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 18:38, 2 April 2007

This was a straw poll to gauge the community's thoughts about the Misplaced Pages:Attribution merger. The poll ran from March 30, 2007 at 00:00 UTC to April 7, 2007 at 01:00 UTC. 424 users responded in the section for broad support of the merger, 354 responded in the section for broad opposition, and 102 responded in the section for neutral votes, qualified opinions, compromises, and other opinions. Please keep in mind that these numbers are a rough approximation, since some editors might have placed their comments in an unintended section (most notably the third one). Please see below for their rationales and related comments.

• WP:ATT/P

Background

Misplaced Pages:Attribution (WP:ATT) is an attempt to unite Misplaced Pages:Verifiability (WP:V) and Misplaced Pages:No original research (WP:NOR). It was worked on for over five months by more than 300 editors, and was upgraded to policy on 15 February, 2007. The proposal was e-mailed to Misplaced Pages co-founder Jimbo Wales, made public on various policy talk pages, on the WikiEN-L mailing list, and was announced on The Misplaced Pages Signpost.

More recently, on the WikiEN-L mailing list, Jimbo Wales suggested:

• "A broad community discussion to shed light on the very good work done by a group of people laboring away on WP:ATT and related pages", (see: Misplaced Pages talk:Attribution/Community discussion), and then,
• "a poll to assess the feelings of the community as best we can, and then we can have a final certification of the results."

References:

1. Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales, "Just what *is* Jimbo's role anyway?" WikiEN-L, 06:56, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

How to participate in this poll

• Please familiarize yourself with the debate:
  • Misplaced Pages talk:Attribution/Community discussion.
  • Arguments in support of the merge, an essay in support.
  • Arguments against the merge, an essay in opposition.
  • Questions suggested during poll design; some criticized as biased towards ATT, some as biased against it.

• Please do not directly respond on this page to opinions of other editors; discussion should take place on the designated talk page. Comments in the polling sections of this page should be limited to short statements (300 words or less ideally). Responses in the 'polling' section will be refactored and moved to the Talk page.

Notes

• This is a hybrid Requests for comment and straw poll, not a vote. As such, any numeric results may not be definitive. This is a means of gathering opinions on one page in an organized way.
• We are not polling on the name of Misplaced Pages:Attribution; when this poll is done and the page unfrozen, such requests will be welcome at Misplaced Pages:Requested Moves. We want to see what people think of the merger.

Question to all editors

Misplaced Pages:Attribution is a merger of Misplaced Pages:Verifiability and Misplaced Pages:No original research into a single policy page.

Some aspects of Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources (WP:RS) were also merged into WP:ATT, with other material from RS to be incorporated into the accompanying Misplaced Pages:Attribution/FAQ (WP:ATTFAQ).

The intention is not to change policy, but to express it more clearly and concisely, and to make it easier to follow and maintain by having it expressed on one policy page, and discussed on one talk page.

What do you think of this? Reply in the below comments section with your statement.

Your opinion here, please

NOTE: Please keep your statement short and to the point. You may change or edit your statement. One total entry per person, please; if you want to endorse someone else's, do so as part of your total entry. Please bold key words (I support all, oppose all, support A but not B etc.).

Do not reply HERE to others. All threaded replies to points will be refactored/placed onto the poll's Talk page. If you wish to reply, copy their statement to the Talk page, and reply there.

In broad support of WP:ATT

See also alternative sections in this survey: In broad opposition to WP:ATT & Neutral/qualified/compromise/other

Refactoring note: If you replied to someone else's vote, it may have been moved to the talk page, see here.

1. I support all of Misplaced Pages:Attribution without prejudice against continued discussion to hammer out the details. Sourcing is one issue with many facets, and should therefore be covered in one policy page (Misplaced Pages:Attribution) with many sections. I think consensus was achieved in the several months worth of discussion which occurred on WT:A, that the merger should be remade, and that the other three should be superseded. Picaroon 01:14, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
2. I support ATT per Picaroon and per KISS. There is no change in policy — ATT is merely a relocation of the existing policies into dedicated sections in a unified page, where they can all be linked into separately if needed, while being maintained coherently and efficiently. Crum375 01:19, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
3. Support - ATT does not change policy, only merges the principles upon which the policies of V and NOR were created, into one, concise, simple to understand and refer page.
   • Think of the thousand + new editors that register each month... WP:ATT gives them a concise and accurate presentation of our core policies.
   • Think of experienced editors lending a hand in content disputes: A single destination to send people to (in addition to WP:NPOV)
   • Need examples, details, etc? Go to the WP:ATTFAQ. It still needs work but it has promise.
   • In summary: WP:ATT is good for the project, for both newbies and experienced editors alike. The shortcuts such as WP:NOR, WP:V and WP:RS can still be maintained by linking these to the appropriate subsection of ATT. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 01:32, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
4. Strong support — most of my reasons have already been stated. ATT consolidates several policy pages and clarifies everything. Misplaced Pages stresses succinctness in its articles; it should also stress this in its procedures. — Deckiller 01:32, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
5. I support the general idea of a merger between WP:V and WP:NOR.
6. I support WP:ATT although I really wish there was a better way to express it than to say that Misplaced Pages is not about recording the truth. That statement reads really badly. When I consult an encyclopedia it is because I want the truth - not because I want a list of attributed/attributable claims. Our goal is most certainly to express the truth - attribution is the way we find truth when many editors have differing opinions, when we have people trying to insert untruth, when a myriad of other bad things happen. Attribution is a test for truth - albeit a flawed one - it is merely that we agree that attributed statements are more likely to be true than those that are unattributable. SteveBaker 01:54, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
7. I support WP:ATT strongly, and have even though I never discussed it in process before. I was aware of the changes and feel that, while I didn't participate, I was kept well informed through the normal channels. I think this re-organization of policy is very helpful to newcomers and older editors also. The ideas are presented in a much simpler way, and is much more useful when explaining to people. - cohesion 02:00, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
8. I support WP:ATT fully. The merger will make life easier long-term for everyone. - Denny 02:09, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
9. I support the WP:ATT merger of WP:V and WP:NOR, although I would prefer that WP:RS remain as separate as possible. After a few weeks getting used to it, I think the idea of a single ATT policy rather than V and NOR separately is a definite improvement.--ragesoss 02:14, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
10. I support the WP:ATT merge, RS changes and all. The more simply and clearly we can state our policies, the more effective Wikipedians (especially the newer ones, who we need just as badly as experienced editors) can be, and the better chance we have of building a really good encyclopedia. Oh, and, any editor who speaks up now about Misplaced Pages's role in reporting "the truth" is encouraged to take the time read the Misplaced Pages article on truth, and it should become clear very quickly why pursuing "the truth" is far less likely to succeed than merely requiring attribution from reliable sources. -/- Warren 02:32, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
11. Support. The merge gives us V, NOR, and RS on one page, which makes it easy to find, easier to read, easier to maintain. There was no change of policy, hundreds of editors were involved in its development, and people liked it. It was a genuinely popular move. SlimVirgin 04:11, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
12. Support - the merge did not change policy, and made the whole package easier to understand and to manage. Guettarda 04:13, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
13. Support ATT, because attribution is at its core what we do. Verifiability and No Original Research are reasons why to attribute, and as such may deserve an explanatory page more than a subsection. But at the end of the day it doesn't matter if we're providing ways to verify our content or whether we're trimming WP:MADEUP; we practice what we preach. Nifboy 04:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
14. Support WP:ATT: I don't see anything being lost in consolidating these very important related concepts into subsections of one clear and concise overarching topic. Krimpet (talk/review)
15. Support WP:ATT - Consolidation and merger into one page will make things easier, policy is not going to change.. If there are any editors who would like parts of the policy to be changed, they can be raised in its talk page and discussed and modifications brought if need be. Baristarim 05:05, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
16. Support WP:ATT, as I believe it sums up the three policies it merges quite well. Indeed, those policies can be summed up in a single sentence-"Do not use your personal knowledge or original research to write articles, instead use only verifiable information from a reliable source." Seraphimblade 05:09, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
17. Support - Succinct and effective synthesis combination of worthwhile policies; nice to have them congealed into one spot. --EEMeltonIV 05:05, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
18. Support all. Policy reform is one of the most important things Misplaced Pages can do right now. It'll have lasting and important effects on how people view the project and how they act within it. Our policies thus far have grown up more or less to meet circumstances: that is why we've got so many policies, and so many who are pigeonholed, legalistic, or arcane. As Misplaced Pages becomes more self-aware, I think there'll be an increasing will to combine and otherwise reform extant policies to meet our mission and fit more circumstances. This particular move is a great step towards making our policy logical, accessible, internally consistent, broad, and simple. I've watched the attribution page grow into what it is for some time now, and I think it's more than ready to fill the shoes of our other policies technically. I urge everyone to support it. Cheers, -- Thesocialistesq/M.Lesocialiste 05:17, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
19. Support - Specifically separate sub-topics, but all within the realm of attribution for the purposes of Misplaced Pages, clearly. Each can still be cited in the usual manner (normally done during talkpage spats) ;).--Keefer4 | Talk 05:31, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
20. Support - I'm tired of editors who cite all three to build an argument against something. ALTON .ıl 05:33, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
21. Support - The policy of "Attribution" does not contain any new information, but what it does do is simplify the policy situation which in this case is a Good Thing (tm). --Jayron32|talk|contribs 05:36, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
22. Support - the merge did not change policy, and made the whole package easier to understand and to manage. The shortcuts such as WP:NOR, WP:V and WP:RS can still be maintained by linking these to the appropriate subsection of ATT. I think this re-organization of policy is very helpful to newcomers and older editors also. The ideas are presented in a much simpler way, and is much more useful when explaining to people. The merge gives us V, NOR, and RS on one page, which makes it easy to find, easier to read, easier to maintain. This particular move is a great step towards making our policy logical, accessible, internally consistent, broad, and simple. WAS 4.250 05:38, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
23. Support - the more policy pages, and the more detail in those policy pages, the more opportunity there is for rules-lawyering and holding the letter above the spirit of the law. Merging everything into ATT brought together related concepts and simplified things greatly, but having all four pages running concurrently is a step backward. Remerge please. Bryan Derksen 05:43, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
24. Support - Keep it simple. Iorek85 06:10, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
25. Support all of Misplaced Pages:Attribution. There is no changing of policy, only merging of the principles into one, concise, reference page. This makes the transition into WP easier. I believe the future benefits outwieght any negatives.--88wolfmaster 06:16, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
26. Support - I broadly support the establishment of WP:ATT as policy; it is a worthy synthesis. However, that support is conditional on WP:NOR, WP:V, WP:RS and other underlying policies and guidelines remaining valid and intact; vague portmanteaus do not serve our purposes. RGTraynor 06:18, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
27. Support per KISS. --tickle me 06:31, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
28. I Support the concept of merging several policies and summarizing them. This is a perfect remedy to Misplaced Pages's already many policies and guidelines, and the merge makes it easier for new and experienced users to grasp. Sr13 (T|C) 06:32, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
29. Support any simplification or coalation of Misplaced Pages's varied and sometimes byzantine policies. Openness and transparancy is important, and in a circumstance where keeping it simple is possible, it should be done. I think in this case the merging is both appropriate and necessary to an approchable body of work that needs less arbitrary restrictions, not more. Salad Days 06:39, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
30. Support. The condensation of our policies is absolutely essential to prevent instruction creep, especially as the project grows ever larger and has to create additional mandatory/"core" policies like WP:BLP to deal with new challenges it faces. The merged pages dealt with only slightly different cases of the same subject, so there was no reason to keep them separate. WP:V told us that we had to be able to source our information, WP:NOR merely expanded on a detail of this, saying that our personal experiences were not valid sources. WP:A incorporates both elements quite cleanly and accurately, and does not change the spirit of the rules from their previous state, so it should be accepted. --tjstrf talk 06:45, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
31. Support; I agree that condensation and simplification of Misplaced Pages policies is for the overall better. Streamlining the system will make it easier for editors to reference guidelines and for new editors to understand those guidelines. Peptuck 06:48, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
32. Support. This is very much an issue of simplifying red tape, and considering that a lot of users don't bother reading policies before they post (I know I originally was one of them :$), this should encourage people to abide by the positions. Simplication = Better understanding. The Prince 06:58, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
33. Support all. More precise, more maintainable, much easier to lead newbies to a correct understanding. Doesn't weaken NOR in the slightest—explains it better and places it in correct context. Using the guideline RS to explain the policy V never made sense. Marskell 07:06, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
34. Support because the three templates to be merged are all talking about the same thing. - 上村七美 | talk 07:33, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
35. A good idea. El_C 07:41, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
36. Support, I agree with above opinions.-Marcus 07:44, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
37. Strong Support per Jossi and per Sr13. Merging these pages in WP:ATT will render a single policy, which will be easier to mantain (at least, inconsistencies will be easier to detect and correct). If you have any doubt when reading the policy, just scroll up/down... all is in the same page. (However, admins should be prone to allow modifications in the content, as long as they do not modify it meaning) Rjgodoy 07:51, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
38. Strong support Very good merge, way more practical. Garion96 (talk) 08:18, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
39. Support Insofar as this will remove redundancy and make the policy statement more concise for users, I support it. JDubowsky
40. Support. This would keep everything in one page, making its n00b-friendly. __earth 08:57, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
41. Support, OR is and always has been a special case of lack of verifiability/attributability, so it only makes sense to cover it all in a single policy. As for the complaints about the loss of the word "verifiable", I think this is more than adequately compensated for by the long-overdue inclusion of a requirement for reliable sources in policy. Attribution to reliable sources is verifiability! Plus, ATT is more concise and clear, and less intimidating than V and NOR were separately. Xtifr _tälk 09:04, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
42. Support the merger. Easier to understand, to remember, to reference and to maintain. There's still work to be done on the merged policy's content and wording. Itayb 09:08, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
43. Support. I find ATT in its current form clearer than NOR and V, and it successfully presents the two as special cases of the root principle. Viewing the arguments for and against, I find the arguments against fairly alarmist, and the arguments for quite straightforward and compelling.--Father Goose 09:32, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
44. Support for WP:V and WP:RS to be merged, but think that WP:NOR should remain separate. However, merging all 3 would be better than the current situation too. -- Ynhockey 09:33, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
45. Support a merger. As I previously comment, a merger should work as codification making easier our life here: easier access, more methodical organization of relevant provisions. This is the idea.--Yannismarou 09:34, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
46. Support the merger. In order to become more reliable as a source, Misplaced Pages needs a more strict and more clear definition of what (external) information is reliable. Merging WP:V and WP:NOR results in this clearer definition, upgrading WP:RS into the policy WP:ATT should result in the use of more reliable sources, which in turn results in a higher reliability of the information in wikipedia. --Dirk Beetstra 09:45, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
47. Support WP:ATT absolutely. Keep it simpler. See my original comments at the discussion. Michaelas10 10:02, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
48. Support - "It's just a merger."™ Yonatan 10:08, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
49. Support WP:ATT because people are forgetting to do all 3 three things but only do 1 or 2. Getonyourfeet 10:19, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
50. Support because multiple overlapping policies are bad, and simple policies are easier to follow, and easier to learn and explain. We can keep V and NOR as separate for explaining the two important approaches to the issue. The merger basically changes nothing, except that it makes things clearer. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 10:23, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
51. Support - this is a lot easier to understand than the original pages. I haven't been editing here long, but I have seen the previous pages cited incorrectly countless times - this merged page should help reduce that. Doceirias 10:45, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
52. Support If we don't fundamentally re-think our core policies every three or four years, we're not a learning organization. If we're not a learning organization, we're dead in three years. ~ trialsanderrors 11:03, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
53. I support WP:ATT because it is a simpler, clearer, more useful structure and ideas behind the NOR and V. I found both "original research" and "verifiability" confusing, because the way Misplaced Pages uses them conflicts with their everyday meanings. "Attributable" is a much better term. --Jdlh | Talk 11:07, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
54. Support, I think this merger will make referring to the policies much easier, currently the huge amount of them can be daunting to new members and difficult to refer back to. Camaron1 | Chris 11:08, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
55. Support all --Sean Brunnock 11:09, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
56. Support -- A single "parent" resource is necessary for new and senior editors alike. If related concepts such as verifiability or original research need distinguishing or elaboration, we can still link to subordinate pages. The current system is too confusing for new users and cumbersome for experienced users when explaining things to the newbies. --Keesiewonder 11:10, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
57. Support enthusiastically. This will make life easier when dealing with people who say "If you guys are promoting Red vs. Blue, we should be able to write about our unreleased series that no-one has heard of."--Drat (Talk) 11:11, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
58. Support -- it'll just make things easier. Matt.kaner 11:21, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
59. Support a merger. I had almost every edit I made to the policy reverted, but I feel one can put ego issues aside and think about what is best for the project. The most vocal opposition to ATT has not been about the issues Jimbo raised, but about almost the opposite, namely that WP:ATT will limit our right to do original research in determining the Truth. Well...
    1. The role of truth has not changed! Verifiability meant "verifiable attribution", please, tell me what has changed?
    2. Obviously, we all want Misplaced Pages to strive for the truth, but this is a content policy, not our mission statement! Are notions of truth ever helpful in resolving content disputes?
    3. In short, the policies have not changed, this is finally stating them less ambiguously, and that's why I like this policy. Who would have known that "no original research" also disallows "mundane non-research" just because the conclusion isn't attributable to a reliable source. Well, let's be explicit about it! --Merzul 11:24, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
60. Support. Simplifies, clarifies and disambiguates a lot of the confusion that WP:V, WP:RS and WP:OR had. Obviously, a numbers game is no way to determine consensus, but I throw my hat in to support anyway. Batmanand | Talk 11:25, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
61. In my mind, V and NOR are almost the same (specifically, NOR is a subset of V). I know some people think they're different concepts, but I couldn't find an example something which is both Original Research and Verifiable (in the meaning of the policies). -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 11:30, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
62. Support. If someone hasn't edited Misplaced Pages before, explaining that we have two content policies WP:A plus WP:NPOV is slightly easier. Addhoc 11:37, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
63. Support. It just makes sense. darkliight 12:01, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
64. Support a one-stop policy for all attribution issues - RS and V are so intrinsically linked that seeing them separated is confounding, and NOR is sufficiently close that it can logically be included in the over-arching policy. Whilst I have not personally contributed to the community discussion, I have watched it carefully. --New Progressive 12:05, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
65. Support per KISS. Makes sense to me. --Deenoe 12:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
66. Strong Support - especially for new users. We must strive for clarity and brevity: three articles impose too great a psychological distance, and impose too much redundancy to meet the brevity requirement. To simultaneously relate and distinguish policy from guideline, I advocate a tabbed layout, or some other obvious distinguishing layout style as a means of clearly delineating the two.--Lexein 12:24, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
67. Support. Merge, merge, merge; the articles are similar enough for a merge, and have multiple guidelines on a policy that could be summed up as Misplaced Pages:Reliability or Misplaced Pages:Sources. That being said, I do disagree with the title and feel that Misplaced Pages:Reliability would be the most appropriate. Having all the policies accesible will streamline Misplaced Pages, make it easily accesible to the masses, and reduce confusion by keeping it simple. It is much easier to reconcile one set of instucutions then multiple ones that may contradict each other.--JEF 12:34, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
68. Strong Support makes a lot of sense, and simplifies things.-BillDeanCarter 12:50, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
69. Strong Support - There is enough overlap in concept for NOR and V to be merged. A merger will lessen the likelihood of these policy pages being edited so that they conflict with each other (as has occasionally happened in the past). The old policies should be redirected to ATT with links to the relevant sections. That said, I feal that the guideline WP:RS should not be redirected and linked to ATT at this time. WP:RS should be edited to bring it into sync with the Policy statements contained in ATT, with the idea that it will eventually be re-worked and incorprated into a new guideline. That new guideline - comprised of segments of the current WP:RS would be called something like: "Determining reliability", and focus on advising editors on how to deal with the grey zone issues of determining if a given source is reliable within the context of a given article being written. This new guideline would avoid language that could be construed as being "the rules"... pointing the editor to ATT and NPOV for such statements. Instead it would be a true guideline... offering guidance on HOW to determine if a source is reliable within the framework and policy set out in ATT and NPOV. Blueboar 13:09, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
70. Support. KISS. --MZMcBride 13:18, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
71. Support there is considerable overlap between NOR and V - and when a negative policy (do not do ...) is clearly linked to a positive policy (do do ...), it makes sense to draw them together into a comprehensive policy. And it makes it easier for people to follow our policies when there are fewer. remember, in the beginning NPOV was our only really dominant policy; NOR and V developed as independent attempts to address some of the same problems. ATT gets us to coordinate our policies in a way we really should have done long ago. Slrubenstein | Talk 13:21, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
72. I generally Support the merge. Many editors have adressed concern about some of the percieved changes in policy. Many of these concerns are valid, and policy should be changed accordingly. But in terms of the merge, I am in full support of one, broad, unifying policy. --Ybbor SURVEY! 13:33, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
73. Full support of the merging. Keep things easy on newbies. CSP 13:36, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
74. --best, kevin 13:44, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
75. Support - I find it laborious to see admins who feel that by citing three policies, they're building some kind of monumental case against an article, when one policy is simple and sufficient. --WikiGnosis 13:58, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
76. Support - per above --((F3rn4nd0 )) 14:17, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
77. Support merge conceptually, agree with many that there are still some details to hammer out about final wording and inclusion, confident that wikifying of final product will continue post-polling. Jfarber 14:26, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
78. Support. Obviously some details to be worked out, but the merger of WP:V, WP:NOR and WP:RS into one cohesive concept seems logical and prudent to me. -- Satori Son 14:40, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
79. Strong Support I believe the unification of WP:V, WP:NOR and WP:RS is a great thing for Misplaced Pages, as it would make newbies to Misplaced Pages lives easier and it is a logical decision. I don't see why we should even have to have a poll. This should have been able to happen without delays. Xtreme racer 14:49, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
80. Support. All three prior policies are aspects of the same requirement - if a source isn't reliable then it can't be used to verify. If something's OR it's inherently unverifiable. MartinMcCann 14:56, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
81. Strong support. It would be more convenient for other users who don't provide citations. A•N•N•Afoxlover hello! 14:58, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
82. Support Abridged 15:04, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
83. Support on the condition that all information from the each policy is kept and transplanted into WP:ATT, while also improving the policy's quality. Taric25 15:13, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
84. Support Best to merge policies for user ease, I am not commenting on the details but on the broad proposal to merge 3 pages into ATT, which is an excellent idea, SqueakBox 15:24, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
85. Support This sounds very sensible - what about all the templates though? Benbread 15:34, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
86. Strong Support. The policies may be conceptually distinct, but they are practically equivalent. While someone contemplating the merge in their leather armchair in front of the fire may find it devastating, I believe in the field it will provide great benefit at trivial cost. And like Picaroon said, continued discussion can hammer out the details. Moreover, I feel that the essay in opposition presents silly, weak arguments. Punctured Bicycle 15:44, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
87. Support because when the policies were on separate pages, they often became inconsistent. I reject the argument that these are separate ideas, because the separate policies, as they existed in the last year or so, did not describe the ideas in a way that makes the differences apparent. --Gerry Ashton 15:50, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
88. Very Strong Support-I strongly support all of this :) Illyria05 (Talk • Contributions) 15:54, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
89. Support having this information located in one place is easier on both new and old users. It makes intuitive sense to have this info all in one place. --LadyShelley 15:58, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
90. Support reduces redundant and often contradictory instructions, no significant drawbacks I can see Simões (/_contribs) 16:14, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
91. Support for reasons above, and for the more passive advantage of regularly leading confused editors to one single spot, encouraging them to familiarize themselves with these guidelines in one place. -Markeer 16:33, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
92. Support Having the policies in one place is an improvement when it comes to practical usability. Pax:Vobiscum 16:36, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
93. Support for reasons set out above, and for having a single area that, hopefully, will not contradict itself. Saga City 16:41, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
94. Support Leo44 (talk) 16:49, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
95. Definately Support when I was a new user, I personally had a difficult time finding what I needed in the help and policy pages. Any way to make them easier to use is a good idea. VonShroom 16:55, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
96. Broadly supportive of a merger of policies however strongly oppose the inclusion of reliability issues as doctrine beyond the concept that sourcing should be based on reliable dcumentation. RS is not policy and shouldn't be policy. Support editors don't figuratively beat them.ALR 16:57, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
97. Weak support for the merge in its entirety. I'm a little nervous about the banishment of the word "verifiable" from the policy, but overall, I think that all the information needs to be in one place, and I think that a greater understanding of what reliable sources are will be a boon to everyone. Rmj12345 17:26, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
98. Strong Aye since it makes it all more simple. The policy is the same, so maybe this should be considered when counting the opposes (and their reasoning). Ian¹³/t 17:54, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
99. Support Seems like a pretty clear-headed way of making the policies more user-friendly. --Mantanmoreland 17:58, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
100. Support - A definite improvement. Bensaccount 18:07, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
101. Support. I well remember slogging through three pages of often contradictory 'guidelines' to try to figure out whether I was doing things correctly. A one-page approach is the only way to go. It may not be perfect yet, but neither are the alternatives, and a concise one-page version can be worked on more easily than three. Cop 633 18:12, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
102. Support all. It seems quite intuitive to me. All over-lapping, interdependent (or, as Northrop Frye might say, "inter-penetrating") ideas. Also, for new users, one "recommended reading" page, rather than 3 that are all needed to explain one another. -- Pastordavid 18:22, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
103. I fully support the merge, which makes the necessary information clearer and more accessible, and does not (as far as I can see) change policy. We don't want to water down policy, but we do want fewer policy pages. ElinorD (talk) 18:26, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
104. Strong Support - no need for 3 similiar-yet-different policies guiltyspark 18:48, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
105. Support - I remember being new to WP and being puzzled by these three policies that all seemed to be slight variations on the same theme. NOR, in particular, is confusing to new editors. I believe these concepts can be harmonized into a single policy, perhaps with supporting pages etc. More work needs to be done, but I think it's a great direction for the project.--Kubigula (talk) 19:04, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
106. Support This should have been done long ago. Tirronan 19:25, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
107. Strong support Although I have my reservations, and I'm sure there will be glitches along the way, if we get behind this and use it, it will make the necessity for properly referenced information on here that much clearer. Nmg20 19:29, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
108. I Support the merger of WP:V, WP:NOR, and WP:RS. Having these related policies on one page will make it a lot easier for any user to implement those policies correctly. I am still annoyed by the fact that sometimes I have question about how something should be done correctly and having to look through various policy pages only to give up because I couldn't find the answer because it's buried somewhere in so many pages. --Leon Sword 19:35, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
109. Support per Crum375. Simplification is they key provided that the essentials aren't lost, and they aren't. Js farrar 19:42, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
110. Support: I don't like polls, because they never get us anywhere. But anyway: it's a well-written merger of three pages, the appallingly written RS (the ATT FAQ does a much better job), the badly written NOR and the well-written V which contains the awkward term "verifiability" (difficult to use with newbies—I've even been offered telephone numbers to "verify" claims). Despite those who say that those three pages are distinctive, it is ever so difficult to stop them contradicting each other. Those who maintain policy pages (constantly the target of single-issue edits) have a terrible time trying to keep them in synch, a major reason why they would prefer to work with a merged page. qp10qp 19:49, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
111. Support strongly — No organisation of policy is perfect, but this revision is an improvement in so many ways. To me there are three utterly compelling reasons to support the merger (in addition to the simplification of guidelines it provides):

     • It re-emphasises the concept that an article should be "attributable" rather than "attributed";
     • "No original research" is a consequence of being "attributable", which greatly clarifies its meaning;
     • In a world where truth has different meanings to different people, using the word "attributable" instead of "verifiable" greatly clarifies the role of an encyclopedia as a repository of knowledge (which is partly about what is believed rather than necessarily what is true).

     In a sense every WP article which is not plagiarism is original research because it gathers information and presents it in a new (and hopefully fresh, interesting and exciting) way. Hence the key point is that this information should be attributable. Geometry guy 19:51, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

112. Support. WP:V and WP:NOR state the same thing. If something isn't verifiable, it's by definition original research. No need to have multiple policies to confuse people. The idea of merging the two has occurred to me before, and it's nice to see someone actually doing so. jgpTC 19:53, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
113. Weak support with a few proposals. This is likely to be a wikipedia-wide debate, with enough votes to qualify for WP:100, WP:200, or even WP:300. I have a few suggestions, however. I suggest that all of wikipedia's most important policies be merged into this. This way, users would be able to read this page and understand all the policies. Also, it should have many other names that are redirects to the page, so when users search for wikipedia's policies, they end up at this page. Also, the former policy pages should be changed into redirects to this page, and any double redirects created should be fixed. make sure you do everything that is needed when you merge, if this poll passes. Pages that are not policy pages, in my opinion, should not be merged; including pages in the template, article, and user namespaces. Make sure you decide what policies are to be included; if this is only about article writing policies, only include those, and so on, etc. Thanks. AstroHurricane001 19:58, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
114. Support all, as this allows centralizing policy. If desired, WP:V, WP:NOR, and WP:RS can be kept as more specialized pages, but this change will allow WP:ATT to contain the basic rules that were spread across several pages. --Sigma 7 20:07, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
115. Support. Now let's build an encyclopedia. Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 20:11, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
116. Strong support Much better to understand article for the newbies. centralized information. Anyone in the "Neutral" section that says "support as a summary" must be truly uninformed about good communication standards. Anyone who wants more nitpicking can start a WikiProject:Nitpickers. The merge is GOOD. --TheDJ (talk • contribs • WikiProject Television) 20:14, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
117. Strong support A merged article will be clearer and more concise making it easier to explain to new users. New users are more likely to read one policy than they are to read three. Also I feel reliable sources should be a policy not a guideline. A policy can still have exceptions, but they need better justification. Taylor 20:18, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
118. Support I like the idea of putting it all together into one page. Perhaps some sort of summary-style with subpages is in order, but they all need to be under the same umbrella. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 20:27, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
119. Support Good merge, makes the life of WP editors easier. --Aqwis 20:35, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
120. Support In this instance, less is better. — MrDolomite • Talk 20:37, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
121. Support One consolidated and well-articulated policy statement is preferable to three related policy statements that can be perceived as overlapping and/or possibly contradictory. --orlady 20:49, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
122. Support. There's nothing that I can say that hasn't been said well by others; Orlady puts it as well as any. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 21:03, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
123. Support. It's hard to explain what statements are and are not acceptable without a single official policy page to turn to. -Rustavo 21:24, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
124. Support. More people are likely to read it if they don't have to go to 3 different pages. JIMOTHY46_ct 21:31, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
125. Support All It makes more sense to say that something should be attributable (to a relaible source), than that something should be able to have its truth determined (which is what verifiable means). Truth is a difficult concept. Attributability is not as difficult. But we should also aim for truth if we can in the articles. THe only trouble is deciding on what is a reliable source! This may cause much discussion.--SlipperyHippo 21:47, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
126. I support all of Misplaced Pages:Attribution. Sourcing is one issue with many facets, and should therefore be covered in one policy page (Misplaced Pages:Attribution) with many sections. I think consensus was achieved in the several months worth of discussion which occurred on WT:A, that the merger should be remade, and that the other three should be superseded.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Grosscha (talk • contribs)
127. Support A single unified policy is preferable to the current proliferation of policies. Just as editors have adapted to the idiosyncracies of interpretation in the current policies, any difficulties with WP:ATT will be sorted out. VectorPosse 21:59, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
128. Strong support. A valuable move in the right direction, distilling clarity and sanity from confusion and conflict. The evolution of one united policy statement to subsume three old ones was forced by the failure of the latter, as many an edit war and talk page exchange made painfully evident. --KSmrq 22:09, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
129. Support The topics are so related - that really why not have them in a page? I believe that a lot of wikipedia policies are really too spaced out, but here you can easiliy get to a sub-section with the table of contents and your there.Daniel()Folsom |\/|\_C/|\/| 22:10, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
130. Support For clarity's sake I support the merger.Zeus1234 22:31, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
131. Support per the need for clarification and agreement between current policies. shoy 22:36, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
132. Support It simply makes sense to combine them. It will make things much more convenient and clear.Zeppelin462 22:37, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
133. Support, progress is nice, less b'cracy is nice. / Fred-Chess 22:54, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
134. Support. By merging the pages together, editors will be more likely to apply WP:NOR, WP:V and WP:RS together as a logical unit, determining what is a RS, what is original research, etc., in the context of the article or project at hand.--Myke Cuthbert 22:59, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
135. Support. It will help make policy more organized, easy to navigate and more efficient. I've always wanted these policy pages to be more organized. I would also support what someone in the neutral section said about keeping all articles. But either way, WP:ATTribution needs to stay. Poetic_contribs 23:02, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
136. Support. Although I usually prefer many smaller articles in most cases, I would prefer that related policy and guidelines be kept all in one place. This makes things easier to find. The whole thing just seems to make good sense overall. -- Kevin _(MUSIC) 23:31, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
137. Support. . Thee17 23:45, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
138. Support. Merge makes sense -- both verifiability and NOR require content to have adequate sourcing, RS describes how to determine if it does or not. Furthermore, objections over the presence of "attributable ... not truth" are invalid, as verifiability currently has "verifiability not truth; verifiable means published a reliable source" (paraphrasing). JulesH 23:49, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
139. I strongly support Misplaced Pages:Attribution without reservations. I think it is a logical, evolutionary step that we need to take. It pulls things together, and in so doing clarifies policy without changing policy. Brimba 01:16, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
140. Support as an understandable merger of three policies which all seemed to be the same anyway. - AMP'd 01:44, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
141. Support Simplicity is always optimal. Will also make helping guide new editors to the correct resources easier.--K-UNIT 01:52, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
142. Strong support notability guidelines have been abused for too long. Odessaukrain 02:37, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
143. Support Having less number of core policies will help newcomers to understand Misplaced Pages policies faster. --Indianstar 03:31, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
144. Strong Support under the general principle of KISS. I'd also support making RTFM policy as well. FeloniousMonk 02:38, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
145. Strong Support I feel that the broad source of information on which Misplaced Pages relies, merits a simplified and all encompassing system of checks and verifications of any meaning and that switching to WP:ATT makes the entire process of debating factuality more stream lined than using NOR, VER, and whatever else. This is a change for the good of the million+ editors and contributors that help make wikipedia successful. Xlegiofalco 03:00, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
146. SUPPORT ALL Help editors learn policy and be successful. Bill Huffman 03:07, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
147. Support - No reason to have weaker, piecemeal policies when one stronger, cohesive policy very nicely does the trick. --SpamWatcher 03:21, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
148. Support simplicity is greater with the merge. This way, the noobies can real the policy in just one page instead of three and learn about attribution. Captain panda In vino veritas 03:23, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
149. Support all - These are all on some semantic level really necessary parts of holding up the pillars of wikipedia. I think the merger reduces the problems of instruction creep and the mess that is become of WP:RS. Merging them is the only way that they wont contradict each other and also limit the amount of confusing in content disputes with people misintrptting and cross quoting the diffrent documents. Dalf | Talk 03:24, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
150. SUPPORT. Why have multiple policies when one can summarise them all? Having multiple policies can cause confusion in newer editors, and they might not Be Bold in making edits out of fear. — 0612 (TALK); Posted: 03:26, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
151. Support all - The less guidelines and policies the better. Misplaced Pages is starting to rival some governments with its bureaucracy. KISS please! Peter1968 03:29, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
152. Strong support. WP:ATT combines three inter-related pages into one; original research is a synthesis or analysis that cannot be verified to a reliable source. Having the two policies and the guideline in one place helps clarify their inter-relationship, and makes it easier to ensure that they do not diverge from one another. Jayjg 03:35, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
153. Support. Less policies make its simpler for novice users to understand. And for experienced users it shouldn't matter - they can adapt to any scheme. Wikiolap 03:43, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
154. General support for WP:ATT; however, I also support the continued existence of WP:V, WP:NOR and WP:RS as separate policy pages, further elaborating on different aspects of the core policy WP:ATT. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 03:56, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
155. Support Broad support to merge the closely-related policies. Support for those who wish to hammer out the details. It's good to simplify things for newcomers. It's good to have broad summaries, with links to specifics. Good to simplify! File:Icons-flag-scotland.png Canæn File:Icons-flag-scotland.png 04:05, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
156. Strong Support - clear and concise. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 04:25, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
157. Support. All three policies are really different sides of the same coin (if that coin had three sides). I thought supplanting three pages with one was the original idea anyway. Daniel Case 04:47, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
158. Strong Support Verifiability was always a misnomer, attributability is what was always meant. This makes the sense and meaning of the existing policy clearer. Paul August ☎ 04:56, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
159. Support, great idea. Khoikhoi 04:59, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
160. Support, and while I wouldn't be opposed to forking subs for NOR etc. if there were truly technical reasons to do so, we should still be vigilant of allowing the "policies" to diverge. Tewfik 05:00, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
161. Support. All points above. It will also be easier for readers to understand related policies on only one page without getting lost in a maze of links. Aeons | Talk 05:03, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
162. I support this modification. ---Axios023 05:17, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
163. I support the merger and believe the merged policies should be marked historical. I also commend SlimVirgin for her work in leading the merger. Grace Note 05:28, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
164. Support merger of Verifiability and Original Research policies into the more user-friendly Attribution policy. --TommyBoy 05:55, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
165. Support. Anything to reduce the sprawl. Terry Pratchett wrote that "nine tenths of the universe is the paperwork"; let's see if this can get that down a tad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wareq (talk • contribs)
166. Support merging three pages on the same topic into one. ~ Switch (✉✍☺) 06:10, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
167. Strong Support. One thing that often frightens people away from participation is fear of making a mistake. WP's be bold policy (if a new member finds it)does a lot to explain that mistakes will happen, but that's ok and the most important aspect is to participate, but still, for some that it not enough. What greatly frightens many is the overall complexity. For instance, the basics of computers are not difficult at all to master over time, but if you have never used a computer before, to see that 500 page manual can easily frighten you into thinking "there is no way I will ever get this". This how I see Misplaced Pages. There are so many policies and so much information that it can turn you away from reading everything you should know and more difficult remembering it all. Anywhere that policies can be joined, narrowed, and simplified, the better it is for anyone trying to learn, in my opinion. If you have two policy articles with similar information but only read one, you don't get the full picture. Joining said articles prevents that from happening again. — CobraWiki 07:05, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
168. Support merging basic Misplaced Pages principles into one concise, simple to understand page that can easily be refered to, and will provide helpful guidance to newcomers and oldtimers alike. Dovi 07:18, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
169. Support. It is better to put all the information into a page as a well organized article. I think the users will find it easier to check for the sections of an article, instead of searching the other pages for similar issues.--Maestro 08:07, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
170. Full Support. As per Maestroka, Dovi. --HubHikari 08:35, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
171. Full Support. New page is much clearer and eliminates contradictions. dramatic 08:38, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
172. Support for simplicities sake. Originally out of process or not, it's in process now, and on the merits it makes sense.--CastAStone| 08:40, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
173. Strong Support – WP:A concisely and clearly explains each aspect of the policy in relation to the other aspects, much better than trying to relate separate pages. Useful detail such as WP:RS belongs in guideline or FAQ pages relating back to this core policy. .. dave souza, talk 08:44, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
174. Strong Support - Authority of sources has been a huge problem on the Internet since I first logged on in 1993 and it's nowhere felt more keenly than at Misplaced Pages. This may help and arguments against are weak. Economy1 10:21, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
175. support - Hopefully the new page will be clearer and easier for new editors to understand. ajdlinux 10:40, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
176. Support per Jossi. -- Jeandré, 2007-04-01t11:02z
177. Support - good idea. ←Humus sapiens 11:28, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
178. Support - centralised policy makes it easier to understand. If the three clash, then they're not proper policy in the first place. --Firien 11:35, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
179. Support - More often than not, all three are violated on a page rather than just one. The merged policy makes sense. darkskyz 12:09, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
180. Tentatively support - most mentioned problems can be avoided in debates by referencing the 3 original concepts in WP:ATT and changing comments to something along "please no original research as per WP:ATT". Only major complication is research that has not been published in a single source, but follows logically from comparing two or more sources (in the natural sciences, which strive but all too often fail to be interdisciplinary, one encounters a lot of that). Specific problems in articles can be approached by the {{fact}}, {{check}} etc tags. Dysmorodrepanis 12:22, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
181. Support. Seems inevitable. --Anoma lee 12:25, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
182. Support evrik  12:26, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
183. Support Appears to be an important improvement in policy presentation. Lyrl _C 12:50, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
184. Support One single policy is better then three overlapping policies that all deal with sourcing articles. --Edokter (Talk) 13:43, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
185. Support. Always felt policies overlapped enormously. "As an encyclopedia, Misplaced Pages only organises knowledge already published elsewhere. Facts and interpretations need to be eminently traceable to a verifiable source that is likely to give a reliable representation of the facts/opinions as they are." JFW | T@lk 13:47, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
186. Support, makes for simplicity and easier navigation. Cricket02 13:54, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
187. Support, weakly - specifying exact parts may be tricky, but simplicity is more important. --Evan C (Talk) 14:05, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
188. Support. Avoiding contradictory rules is most important. It also illustrates the rationale of each of these related policies by grouping them together; at least I found it increased my appreciation of NOR, which had previously seemed arbitrary to me. not-just-yeti 14:14, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
189. Support, but we should make sure that it is enforced. Just having a guideline or policy that sits around don't cut it Alf 14:39, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
190. Support. Simplicity and easier navigation is very important, as has been stated above. mcr616 _Speak! 14:42, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
191. Support, strong Clear, no contradictions.It's all about attribution and reliability. SalvNaut 14:46, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
192. Support keeps it simple and reduces the number of pages to be searched when looking for help. - Ctbolt 14:56, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
193. Support It helps people to find the right policy when searching, and I feel many of the policies overlap. Also, if someone asks at the helpdesk then they may learn about more than one policy. -- Casmith_789 (talk) 15:19, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
194. Unqualified Support. This approach effectively integrates WP:VER and WP:NOR into a coherent policy that operates side-by-side with WP:NPOV and the WP:Consensus method of arriving at article-by-article implementation of these policies, without diminishing any of these fundamental WP policies in the slightest. ... Kenosis 15:28, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
195. Support per Kenosis, Casmith ,Not-just-yeti, Picaroon, Warrens, Was.4.250 and others. JoshuaZ 16:14, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
196. Support As I am sure others have stated, WP:NOR, WP:V, and WP:RS overlap in many ways, and it would be much simpler and cleaner to integrate them into one single page. -- Cielomobile 16:39, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
197. Support per above. I don't think I need to restate everything that's been said. — BrotherFlounder 16:47, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
198. Support will at last make the policy clear for anyone. Steinbach (fka Caesarion) 16:55, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
199. Support the relocation of all three policies to one page. Amphytrite 16:58, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
200. Support I support the merger of these pages into one page because the policies are interconnected. Moreover, any quick survey of the articles up for FAC will reveal substantial sourcing problems. I feel that wikipedia needs to provide a simple and concise explanation of what kinds of sources it recommends for articles and when they should be used. While WP:ATT may have some flaws, I feel that those flaws can be worked out but that the idea of a single page on sources is much better than three or even four which users are less likely to read and less likely to understand the relationship between. Awadewit 17:03, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
201. Support as being clearer. I don't like the name (it's a bit unclear), but the principle of merging the pages seems reasonable. --ais523 17:05, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
202. Support and keep old pages as reference. Haiduc 17:09, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
203. Support an excellent idea and an excellent implementation. TomTheHand 17:10, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
204. Support a largely successful attempt to make attribution more accessible and understandable for everyone, which will help promote Misplaced Pages content verifiability, and, thusly, help make Misplaced Pages content more reliable. Justen 17:16, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
205. Support but with a paragraph shortcut as for WP:SYNT. --BMF81 17:33, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
206. Support. Axl 17:43, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
207. Support. It's a reasonable idea that was properly implemented. Eluchil404 17:59, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
208. Support Yeah looks good to me.--FunnyMunny 17:55, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

     Second edit. Marskell 17:57, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

209. Support. this deoes seem to make more sense than having 3 indpendent policies--UnderTrade 18:01, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

     First edit. OK, what's going on? Marskell 18:09, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

210. Strong support, but not the WP:V shortcut. The policies combined here are separate ideas that interact towards the same principle—in fact that's why it is confusing to new editors to have them on separate pages that overlap... Right now, WP:A confusingly tries to cast verifiability as the same as WP:RS. Verifiability—whether content fundamentally can be verified—is probably closer to WP:A itself than to the WP:RS section. The word verifiability also ties WP:A to WP:N. --gwc 19:06, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
211. Supportr. If something is verifiable, then it is not original research (so no need for both). And "attribution" is also important where opinions differ. --Iantresman 19:32, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
212. Limited support (maybe I've put this in the wrong section) - I support the merger of WP:V and WP:NOR into WP:ATT, as "attributability, not truth" makes more sense than "verifiability, not truth", and I think that attribution and "no original research" are essentially two sides of the same thing. However, I think WP:RS should continue as a separate guideline. Walton 19:38, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
213. Support. Everything will be so much easier on one page. Bagpipeturtle 20:19, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
214. Strong support. One page (with a coherent explanation) will make things much easier on new and experienced editors alike.--Kathy A. 20:29, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
215. Support. "One policy to rule them all" makes sense; the simpler it is to explain, the better--as long as WP:NOR, WP:V, and WP:RS are kept as subsections of WP:ATT (for situations where policy needs to be as clear as possible on a specific case). Ourai ʃ_с 21:18, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
216. Support and get rid of WP:NOR and WP:V and WP:RS. I just used Misplaced Pages:Attribution, in a comment to a new user's talk, and I felt it was a clear, concise and sensible alternative to an overwhelming alphabet soup. I was also accused of doing original research fairly recently, when an editor thought I had added some unsourced statements. Original research is a unique case, fully subsumed under the issue of attribution that has gotten quite a bit of undue weight due to the separate pages. Enuja 21:35, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
217. Support. I like the idea and the goals for carrying it out. If it comes together as planned, it will represent a substantial improvement over the separate section. ChemistryProf
218. Support. Get related concepts bundled together. Merge in WP:NOR, WP:V, and WP:RS. They're all driving towards the same principle, and WP:ATT does a better job of articulating that and then getting into the different ways the principle manifests itself. - Ehheh 21:57, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
219. Support. I think it's clearly simpler: to me, WP:OR, WP:V, and WP:RS fundamentally overlap. -- bcasterline • talk 21:57, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
220. Mildly indifferent support. It makes policy more accessible. NOR, V, RS can be kept and referred to as seperate sections. So long as the merger does not weaken what's now WP:ATT, I'm cool with it. But even ATT is overturned for lack of consensus (likely at this point with 210 in favour, 170 against), no big deal. Aren't we all wasting a lot of mindcycles over this mere rephrasing of policy? Sandstein 21:59, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
221. I support the merge. It'll make things more organised, in my opinion. Rusty5 22:02, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
222. Support. Read the articles pro and con, and I think it's a sensible proposition that will simplify things. --Leifern 23:06, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
223. Support, in general. But IMO, WP:RS, WP:V, WP:NOR each need to stay around for quite a while as they do each explain distinct concepts which a lot of us are used to working with. I'm still not all that happy with what's at WP:ATT but I do support it all being in one place.Garrie 23:11, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
224. Support Having them on the same page is handy, but keep the individual parts in separate subtopics Sharpevil 23:24, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
225. Support for the sake of simplicity. Luvcraft 23:25, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
226. Strong support - being new here, I find it very time consuming and very confusing with so many separate policies that are not easy to find, especially if one doesn't know what to search for. It's already time consuming researching, editing and writing articles, and then having to find explainations to concerns all over the place. I strongly support this merge as it will help simplify finding policies. Jeeny 00:52, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
227. SupportSimplicty and clarity is best. Editors will be more likely to apply WP:NOR, WP:V and WP:RS together as a logical unit Lost Kiwi 00:57, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
228. Support since it doesn't change either policy. I think that it's a sensible measure since we have so many policies already. Darthgriz 01:02, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
229. Support. The details do need to be hammered out before any merge. However this should reduce confusion on what has already been made policy.Phatom87 01:13, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
230. Very strong support. The arguments for and against have been done to death, so I won't go over them again. Suffice it to say that I think this is a great idea. Chrisfow 01:30, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
231. Support -- merge 'em baby! Xdenizen 02:05, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
232. Support because I'm tired of arguing with others about what "original research" and "verifiability" actually mean. Mermaid from the Baltic Sea 02:24, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
233. Strong support. New editors need to discover the complexity of WP in layers, and ATT could be a very useful outer layer. Only after that should the WP onion start to stink, then make you cry, then add flavor your mental food... - Freechild 02:29, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
234. Support I find WP:ATTR much more clear than the others ever were. Gutworth 02:40, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
235. Strong support, not only does this keep it simple, it better explains the connection between RS, V, and NOR, which are inextricably intertwined. --MPerel 02:44, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
236. Support. Consolidation is a good idea, so long as the key information in the existing separate pages is kept and simplified if possible. Truthanado 02:50, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
237. Support. Much easier to find what needs to be taken into consideration for writing an article, and also keeps it much simpler. -- DSGruss 02:52, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
238. Support per above.--Eva 02:58, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
239. Support —cmsJustin (talk|contribs) 03:43, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
240. Strongly Support — but i would like to add emphasis on Verifiability as one of the goals & effects of Attribution —- .:Seth Nimbosa:. (talk • contribs) 04:35, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
241. Support - i think WP:ATT is a great example of being bold, which is now being wishy-washed with folks who are too used to keeping all their things right where they left them. There is no change with this formation, and it really cuts it down to the pith of the policy. JoeSmack 05:01, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
242. Support strongly. WP:ATT is easy to understand and will reduce problems with conflicts between two separate policies with essentially the same goal. Attribution is a generally accepted academic standard and should be the standard here. I had no problems with WP:V, but WP:NOR was confusing to newcomers who may not have understood the desired area of writing between original thought and plagiarism. (Heck, there are hundreds of thousands of students out there who don't understand this distinction, some of whom I have tutored.) For these reasons, the policies should be merged. --JaimeLesMaths 05:44, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
243. Support. While I would welcome refinement of the "The threshold for inclusion... not whether it is true" statement, in general this is a simplification and clarification worth doing. We should not, however, belittle the value of truth or accuracy. --Brons 06:16, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
244. Support. I feel that the problem with original research is one of lack of verifiability. Streamlining the policies to make it clear that a bare necessity is some sort of source to verify (this ensures, if not truth, that we have something to blame on if we write something wrong), a common factor for both NOR and V. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:06, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
245. Support what a brilliant idea. I love it! David Spart (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log) 07:55, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
246. Support MisterSheik 08:32, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
247. Support - After considering the for and against arguments in detail - The reasons for far outweigh the reasons against.--VS 08:55, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
248. Support After careful consideration, I find that the benefits of having one page for these closely connected policies outweigh the drawbacks. I do not belive this merger causes a significant change in policy, rather it serves to clarify the previous policies. Tengfred 09:18, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
249. Support Sander123 09:45, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
250. Support - this would seem to be a much clearer, concise policy and be easier to explain to new users. ••Briantist•• talk 10:16, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
251. Support - Clarity and commonsense par excellence. Vizjim 11:02, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
252. Tentatively support I say run it up the flagpole and see who salutes. WookMuff 12:01, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
253. Support Lets make it simpler. Themcman1 12:04, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
254. Support - the fewer separate policies we have, the more quickly new users can become familiar with them. Warofdreams talk 12:30, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
255. Support. A step forward. NicM 12:45, 2 April 2007 (UTC).
256. Support. It is important to gather former 3 principles. More I am confident in wikipedia we must report information and not create this or write what we remember of this. Therefore, attributing is crucial. Congratulations for this proposal. Alithien 14:04, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
257. Support. KISS. Alpha Omicron 14:08, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
258. Support. More in one place is always better. Less following links around trying to find the right thing. – Fʀɪɺøʟɛ _{( тɐʟк • ¢ʘи†ʀ¡βs )} 14:30, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
259. Support. WP:ATT as high level is good, but keep WP:V WP:RS WP:NOR as expanded detail pages. WP:NOR in particular is need as a separate concept. jmj 14:44, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
260. Support. One of the major ideas of Misplaced Pages is to explain things in plain language that is easily accessible. This is a step towards that. Hatch68 14:49, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
261. Support as it is easier for new editors to have less policy pages to wade through. The problems I have with the policy were already existing in WP:V. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fram (talk • contribs) 15:03, April 2, 2007 UTC (UTC)
262. Support The three pages are closely related, so it makes sense to merge them. · AO 15:09, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
263. Support. Marking WP:ATT as policy seems to have done no harm and at least some good. (1) WP:ATT as written is at least as good as WP:RS, :V, and :NOR were at explaining the relevant goals and policies. I have been citing to it without confusion or problem. (2) Centralizing these policies is a good idea. Not only does it avoid creep, it also prevents the interminable debates we used to have when WP:V and WP:RS diverged. Centralizing these policy points means that future changes will be in a single place, so interested editors can keep an eye on them. Also, ILIKEIT. TheronJ 15:24, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
264. Support. The distinction between attributed and attributable is now clear. Andeggs 15:51, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
265. Support. I prefer having to refer to one page that deals with all aspects of attribution. This would help newbies a lot. ɤіɡʍаɦɤʘʟʟ 15:54, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
266. Support; the concepts of V and NOR, while not identical, have the same basis; thus, I feel that a merge is appropriate. --Spangineer (háblame) 16:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
267. Support It fights instructions creep, and is easier on the newbies. IronDuke
268. Support Verifiability always encouraged people writing articles about themselves, and made a call for attribution to published source seem like an insult to their personhood. The search for truth leans towards original research, the search for education is attribution.Lotusduck 16:49, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
269. Support Simplify, simplify, simplify. --AnonEMouse 17:54, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
270. I support this merger as a fairly new user because it is always easier for me to have one tab to refer back to rather than 3 or 4.Gillian416 17:58, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

In broad opposition to WP:ATT

See also alternative sections in this survey: In broad support of WP:ATT & Neutral/qualified/compromise/other

Refactoring note: If you replied to someone else's vote, it may have been moved to the talk page, see here.

1. Oppose on procedural grounds. This appears to me to be a fait accompli. I would like to have been part of this discussion at the start of this process but it was never brought to the attention of ordinary editors at that stage with valid options. AndrewRT(Talk) 17:45, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
2. No on WP:ATT. No on any merger idea at this time. Verifiability, ReliableSource, and No personal research are very independent components of high quality Misplaced Pages pages such as gravity and truth. That is, without a standard for "Verifiability" that is far higher than what mere Attributability requires, editors could not trim the gravity and truth pages to follow faithfully just the facts, not the mere attributions, as established by ReliableSources. Similarly, without a standard for "Verifiability" that is far higher than mere "Attributability," editors cannot trim pages on living persons to exclude fully attributable personal attacks that are baseless, false, and unfair. --Rednblu 01:21, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
3. I oppose the proposed merging of pages, because I believe it's important to keep policy pages separate, in order to prevent the creation of one excessively large (and thus probably ignored) page. I believe it is best to keep the policies on their own separate pages. Philippe 01:27, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
4. I oppose WP:ATT as it exists. I oppose the changes that have been made to WP:V, WP:NOR, and WP:RS by people who use the argument "we aren't changing things, we are only clarifying things" while making major changes to the spirit of our policies. I oppose the promotion of WP:RS from a (very good) guideline to a policy. - O^O 01:41, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
5. While I appreciate the hard work and well-intentioned effort put into this proposal by many editors whose work I respect, I oppose every aspect of this ATT proposal and discussion.
   • More broad-based and open-minded discussion could have occurred before the poll was launched. I also oppose the poll itself, because the presentation is one-sided and the poll itself makes claims that aren't rebutted.
   • I don't support the idea that there was ever consensus for ATT. I was aware of ATT because I work closely with and follow the talk pages of a number of the main "architects" of the proposed policy. I weighed in several times (hence was one of those "300 editors"), but was under the impression that a revamping of fundamental Wiki policies would never happen without broader community input. I didn't see that broad consensus, and was quite surprised when ATT was enacted and core policies disappeared into redirects.
   • I don't agree that ATT merges existing policies, rather that existing policies were molded to ATT before work on them was somewhat abandoned.
   • I strongly agree with Jimbo's statements that each policy expresses a significantly different idea and am opposed to any merger of the core policies. I don't agree that one policy is either clearer or streamlined; I believe it obfuscates important aspects of our policies and weakens each of them.
   • I oppose having ATT as the overarching policy, while still maintaining links to the original three pages, as that creates a maintenance/syncing nightmare. I see no need for any merger.
   • I strongly disagree that ATT did not or will not change in practice our policies, and believe it will and already has weakened our core policies.
     • I am most opposed to the way interpretation of ATT interacts with the "experts" (think, Essjay controversy) scenario. Attributable but not necessarily attributed can be a means of avoiding providing sources for material, while verifiability supports that notion that Wiki's credibility depends upon the ability of our readers to verify that our information comes from reliable sources. Attributable but not attributed opens the door to "experts" to challenge the need to cite information. ATT falls into the "expert" problem by the subtle switch from verifiable to Wiki's readers to attributable to someone, somewhere, sometime, but unless you're an expert on the topic, you don't have the right to ask exactly where it's attributed.
   • My largest concern is that the approach to changing core policy wasn't optimal; while respecting the emotions and hard work invested in this process, I believe the shouting should die down and more voices should be heard before any core policies are changed. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:24, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

   It has come to my attention that I failed to mention one part of the ATT that I do agree with; if ATT becomes policy, I do concur with the elevation of WP:RS into that policy. Strengthening reliability of sources—as well as strengthening verifiability—are my concerns. I feel that ATT strengthens RS but weakens V. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:04, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

6. I strongly oppose ATT, because it denigrates factuality and accuracy (i.e. truth). Attribution is very important, but not more important than accuracy. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) 02:33, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
7. oppose Agree per Jimbo regarding the three being separate ideas. No merge. Navou / _contribs 04:53, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
8. Oppose. I think it is fine the way it is. There may be deficiencies, but this is not the way to fix them. Each one is a stand-alone principle.Mike Searson 04:57, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
9. Strong Oppose - As per others in this section, WP:ATT is not a good idea. The 3 separate components merging into ATT are important on their own, and make up an extremely valuable part of WP's verifiability standards. Merging them will only serve to confuse rather than clarify. Thor Malmjursson 05:00, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
10. Oppose - I agree with Philippe and SandyGeorgia's arguments and feel that this would be a huge mistake that would result in many people ignoring the guidelines. --Bishop2 05:00, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
11. I oppose the WP:ATT merger. I feel that I have been forced into doing so after once being neutral on the issue, by the overcontrol, "I know what's best, dammit" and editwarrior behavior of too many of the ATT proponents. These policies have been successfully separate for a long time, represent separate (albeit related) ideas, too many have raised concerns that policy is in fact being subtly changed in deeply fundamental ways, and ATT never had consensus and is being pushed, hard, now instead of being openly appraised and thoughtfully weighed. Just on the process issues alone I must stand against it. This is not how policy is made at Misplaced Pages. — SMcCandlish ツ 05:01, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
12. Oppose That was weird, someone removed my earlier comments. Anyways, merging parts of RS in is not a good idea, and the seperate ideas should remain seperate. - Peregrine Fisher 05:03, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
13. Oppose in this form; I do support a merger of WP:V, WP:RS and similar pages (and "attribution" would be a great name for that) but I don't support merging WP:NOR, because the three key content policies operate in different ways, and the best way to reinforce this is to have separate pages. I really don't see the benefit of merging in NOR. --bainer (talk) 05:07, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
14. Oppose These are separate notions. Merging them will inevitably dilute understanding and even-handed application of all three. Gwen Gale 05:10, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
15. Oppose ATT is a monster, really. I was leery when I heard that it was being formed out of WP:V and WP:NOR, but now WP:RS too? No, no, no...okay, in all seriousness, I agree with Jimbo that they are separate ideas that should remain seperate. Hbdragon88 05:12, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
16. Oppose Separate ideas belong on separate pages. Nice analogy one above too. — MichaelLinnear 05:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
17. Oppose per "Separate Ideas, Separate Pages." oncamera 05:16, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
18. I oppose the proposed merge, but feel instead WP:ATT should be marked with Template:Policy Summary and maintained as such. Sdsds 05:22, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
19. Articles that encompass too much are tagged with {{main}}, per Summary style. Having these policies merged would create a policy that encompasses too much, and by the same logic, they should ideally be separate. Verifiability and No original research are critical concepts in Misplaced Pages; they deserve policies that explain them fully, not a bad amalgamation. Titoxd 05:36, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
20. (edit conflict) Strong oppose. Our separate policies/guidelines have worked just fine for a long time now. Why the sudden need to combine them? While I do respect the hard work of the editors who attempted this, I honestly don't see how a unified theory of policy could ever come out of this, nor the need really. The separate policies should remain separate, and the whole WP:ATT should just be swept into the trash. ^demon 05:39, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
21. oppose Hopelessly naive, I can cite all kinds of controversial or even false things to generally 'reliable sources'. Truth matters, not just attribution. Verification and original research are not synonyms. Derex 05:47, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
22. Oppose: the WP:ATT is cumbersome to read. I can't see the justification in having the three separate points on the one page, as they are discrete issues. I think we lose more than we gain as a proportion of editors will not read the new page because of this. cheers, Casliber | talk | contribs 05:48, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
23. Strongest oppose possible ATT chops up and destroyed the policies it in tends to replace some of the core parts of the old policy are completely re-defined and changes the guideline that we have. Betacommand 05:51, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
24. Oppose. As it was pointed out these two (or three) notions are quite different. WP:Attribution just puts both of them to a single page and I don't see a point there. Alaexis 06:08, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
25. I oppose a complete merger.

    I remember first hearing about this and thinking it was odd, because I did not see anything major issues with having those pages separate. However, I am mindful of our instructions creep problems we often have because of the raw number of policies and guidelines we have.

    Having read the concerns, and thinking more about this, I feel that the pros outweigh the cons for keeping those pages split. Just having to cite WP:V and WP:NOR in this last week I've seen the value on being able to send a user to one specific page over the other. We do need to clean up the raw number of guidelines and policies we have, but these pages don't need a merge.

    If you want to have WP:ATT in some form, fine, but the value in split pages is more than enough to not completely merge them.

    Another concern is that we'll lose focus of each concept when it's in a single document, as that document grows and develops, as all pages should do, it will unavoidably mix and combined it's own contents. -- Ned Scott 06:10, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

26. Oppose. There is not much to add that has not already been stated; however, I cannot help but think that merging distinct but related concepts necessarily has a neutral effect on policy. To merge implies that the different aspects of the different policies are one and the same. The name of the merged policy reflects this. Attributing something and verifying something are quite different things and have clearly different meanings. While a rose by any other name is still a rose, the meaning of words cannot be ignored and the new name says a lot about the impact of merging different concepts. Agent 86 06:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
27. Oppose - In my opinion, these issues are different and should be awarded their separate policies. WP:ATT exists as a nice guide, but this merger is taking it too far. --Nick—/_Contribs 06:24, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
28. Oppose. These different issues that people need to cite frequently to explain problems with articles. Doczilla 06:26, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
29. Oppose WP:V and WP:NOR are different things. Verifiability is merely that something can be verified...it has little if anything to do with NOR.--MONGO 06:38, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
30. Oppose as resulting page would be too massive and unmanageable. All the acronyms currently used would just link to subsections of the new giant page anyway. Carson 06:48, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
31. Oppose - I've waxed and waned about this all week. I think the work that has been done is good, and I hope it can be used even if ATT is rejected, but I just don't like the idea of WP:V and WP:NOR being in one policy. They are very different concepts, and this exercise has been reinforcing the widespread misconception that they are merely two sides of the one thing. Eliminating separate W:V and WP:NOR pages will make it even harder for newbies and others to understand that that's not so. If W:ATT does survive, at least expand the "nutshell" comment at the top so that the main aspects of both policies are referred to. Metamagician3000 06:53, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
32. Strong Oppose - Disgusted that attribution is seen as more important than truth. This needs to be remedied before any other changes are made. michael 06:58, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
33. Oppose as a waste of time. There is no policy change, only endless reorganization of the various components. Let the policy stand as it is so that the culture can evolve around it without a constantly shifting unerpinnings that really doesn't change. Simply rewriting the policy only creates challenges without a strong historical precedent. --Tbeatty 07:31, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
34. I don't want to see WP:V, WP:NOR, and WP:RS, turned into redirects. El_C 07:41, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
35. Oppose -- While I appreciate the efforts and intention to "streamline" policy, this merger, to me, is not the way it should be done. While sometimes it may be expedient to Ignore All Rules, we really need some "meta-policy" about how sweeping changes such as these should be enacted. We would never have gotten to this point, if not for a few, well-meaning editors who took it upon themselves to effectively strong-arm the form and language of Misplaced Pages policy they wished to see. I'd prefer to see a working group-- a Misplaced Pages policy committee-- formed specifically for the purpose of reviewing and proposing what changes, if any, need be made to improve Misplaced Pages rules. Any such decision-making needs be done with deliberation, open-ness and more robust input from the community. The concerns raised by individuals here should demonstrate that the consensus favours status-quo; unless a solid case can be presented otherwise, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.--Leflyman 07:44, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
36. Strong Oppose Cjrs 79 07:50, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
37. Oppose - Agreeing with above opinions --Spebi 07:56, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
38. Oppose - what is the need for merging? Admins will still find themselves breaking it up for the newbies. Its easier for newbies to understand V, NOR and RS one at a time than all in one gulp. And yeah, retain ATT for 'historical' purposes. Sarvagnya 07:58, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
39. Oppose on several grounds:
    • Firstly, "attribution" and "attributability" is somewhat ambiguous and carries less clear meaning of the actual intent than the current forms. Many en.wikipedia editors are second-language and we should make it as easy for them as possible to contribute in accordance with policy. (I agree with SandyGeorgia's concerns raised above also on this topic) The chosen name actually seems to promote WP:OR at the expense of WP:V, although the text is neutral.
    • Secondly, I agree that each point loses something if merely a point in a bigger document.
    • Thirdly, there was no consensus for the change, it was effectively foisted onto most of the community - despite being fairly active I first heard about it *after* the change had been made, not before, and I have heard many in that situation. This needs far more discussion.

    However in spite of all I have said (and comments made by others which I agree with), I do agree with the principle that the two policies and the guideline should be treated as a bundle from a policy development point of view, and I would not be opposed to a WP:5 style summary of them being created. However, I believe the pages should remain separate in order to improve clarity, exactly as we do with articles, which may be in three different places but are managed by a task force or WikiProject to keep them consistent with each other. Orderinchaos 08:04, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

40. Oppose - I do Agree with the above opinions Theturtlehermit 08:28, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
41. Oppose - I, too, agree with the arguments of the above wikipedians and oppose this move. Instead of merging, why not expand on the terms so that the user will be better able to determine which to apply? TeamZissou 08:36, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
42. Strongly oppose: The articles are better kept separate; they are not entirely related and the policies and guidelines would be hard to find. The terms need clarification, not merging. I agree that "In my opinion, these issues are different and should be awarded their separate policies." I think that WP:Attribution deals with different issues than separate pages on Misplaced Pages:Verifiability, Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources and Misplaced Pages:Citing sources or WP:Cite (which are also directly related and aren't even mentioned in the poll); it appears a kind of watering down of long-standing documentation policies and could even lead to confusion. WP:NOR is particularly important concept that requires its own article. I can see cross-linking related concepts, but merging them is going too far and blurring distinctions among them, in my view. I do not think that the current page Misplaced Pages: Attribution is thorough enough at all and that it could lead to less and poorer documentation of sources in Misplaced Pages rather than to more and better documentation of sources in Misplaced Pages. Too many articles in Misplaced Pages already lack proper verifiable and reliable sourcing. The proposed merger could create even more sourcing problems, especially from inexperienced and/or poorly-educated editors. --NYScholar 08:57, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
43. Oppose - I don't think this will solve any problems, I believe that a universal "super-page" may intimidate fresh members; whilst separate pages will allow them to view policies in sections rather then present the need to read through the whole policy in one sitting. Ashnard _talk 09:23, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
44. I oppose WP:ATT, for several reasons: the concepts of V and OR are similar yet distinct, RS needs to remain a separate guideline, and the term verifiable not true is much more appropriate than attributable not true. The pattern of voting so far also encourages me to oppose, it is obvious that the change does not enjoy support from many in the community. →Ollie (talk • contribs) 09:29, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
45. Oppose per WP:ATTCON, especially the manner in which this merger came to exist repels me. The current policy pages are good enough. --User:Krator (t c) 09:39, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
46. Oppose I agree with many of the arguments above. Catchpole 09:48, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
47. Oppose Absolutely no need for it - why not merge every single policy together, after all they are all relatively related? Clarification, detail and distinction are good - the more of it we have the better - merging policies for the sake of it is just pointless; and actually harmful. SFC9394 09:51, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
48. Oppose The current policies are distince from one another. Further, consensus is not determined by vote. Tompw (talk) 10:03, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
49. Oppose merge and ATT as policy
    • This is difficult to follow and confusing. It may be shorter than verifiability and NOR, but it took me easily twice as long to read and I retained little. Verifiability and NOR are simpler, deal with more than ATT does and while I have not read them much, it is easy to remember phrases and ideas from these policy pages because they are well written and well laid out.
    • This is not, IMO a merge of two policy pages into one page--this is a change of policy in some key areas. It's policy change I'm not ok with, and I'm not ok with how this flew under the radar either.
    • I've only spent a few minutes looking at how the page was put together, but I have serious concerns about it. Opposition seemed to be ignored, and some very bizarre arguments were used at times for not listening to editors. If someone comments on the talk page and doesn't receive a response, that silence isn't a disagreement, it's wiki editors not bothering to comment. You have to show up to make your feelings known, and IMHO, that's pushing WP:OWN on an article, telling users not to edit because unless they get a response, it's a no.
    • Even if this was well done and didn't change policy, these are seperate ideas, seperate policies (while related) and they shouldn't be in one policy.
    • One last note, I'm suprised that this has a policy tag. It doesn't have approval from Jimbo, IMO this does not have real consensus, and that means that it fails grounds for policy. Btw, Tjsrf neither number of editors nor edits has anything to do with consensus Questions have been raised about whether the page should exist, and users have tried to put dispute tags on the article and had them taken down, being told that there is no dispute, and I'm disappointed that consensus is being lauded and this merge is being presented as a merge of canonical policy. ATT needs community consensus to keep its policy tag, but having the policy tag during this poll, means that the changes between ATT and verifiability and NOR are brushed over, because, after all, they're all policy. But while verifiability and NOR actually meet the standards for policy and having that tag, ATT doesn't--not right now anyway--consensus may have been lauded, but I couldn't find it. If the policy tag was put on, and consensus fell by the wayside, the policy tag should have been removed and replaced with proposed policy, or at least a dispute tag should have been placed on it. Having a poll asking what editors thought of merging verifiablity and NOR to ATT and ATT becoming policy would have been much more appropriate and would have made up a bit for not letting the general wikipedia population know about the ATT page and proposed policy changes earlier. Miss Mondegreen | Talk   10:12, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
50. Strongly oppose per Jimbo's initial comments (here and here.), and the way this merger was conducted. -- Vision Thing -- 10:36, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
51. Oppose These has been seperate policies for a long time, and are more concise as seperate Af648 10:46, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
52. Oppose as per Af648 sbandrews (t) 10:50, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
53. Strong Oppose No keep the seperate pages and send a clear message to those editors who want to rule over the rest of us and feel the need for a little power trip. --Fredrick day 11:05, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
54. Oppose as per SandyGeorgia (MichaelJLowe 11:10, 31 March 2007 (UTC))
55. Oppose 3 clear seperate distinct policies are better than a merger. No need for this merger to take place. Davewild 11:26, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
56. Oppose With the vast amount of redundant guidelines/essays littering the WP: space, I can't fathom why it was decided to merge these two, which tackle two separate issues. This merger will make it much harder to tackle the acres of pop culture original research as it will retain the misguided defense that articles can be entirely "attributable" to a single primary source while making it harder to point out that articles based entirely on primary sources are contrary to the goal of an encyclopaedia, which should be based on secondary sources, and tend to involve novel syntheses. --Sam Blanning 11:44, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
57. Strong oppose - 1: They are, to a large degree, distinct policies. There may be some overlap, but that is not a negative, given the importance of these policies. 2: A large article (which would be too large in this case) is harder to follow and digest, and therefore less likely to be observed. 3: Attribution may be considered by some to be a de facto parent policy (it is not quite like that, in my view) but it would not function well in that rôle. When I was new to these policies, I found ATT - in comparsion to the other policies - to be the least helpful. 4: This seems to be being pushed through - it is not a well-considered, thoroughly thought out proposal. 5: We cannot risk diluting the existing NOR and Verifiability policies. Adrian M. H. 12:11, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
58. Strongly oppose. WP:V and WP:NOR are overlapping slightily in principles, but they are simply not the same thing - and each rule has its own quite distinct raison d'être and context. Here the masses are being asked to vote on something already-decided by what seems to be a few - if you would involve the masses in the developing the idea perhaps you would get a more refined - and practical - one. I suspect that this vote is counting on the "sounds good" crowd to see the motion through - and depending on such sometimes 'easy' input to see such a major change through is not a good thing. With all due respect, I consider it even to be a form of manipulation. THEPROMENADER 12:19, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
59. Oppose. Nah, I like it the way it is myself. Though I can see some similarities, and the reasoning to merge I'm the type that likes to leave things as they are. Fr0 12:36, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
60. Oppose - Verifiability and No original research are different bunnies, and the one is weaker without the other - one can cite verifiable sources with a conetntious reading that amounts to OR.--Red Deathy 12:38, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
61. Strong Oppose - you can attribute anything. Verifying is much harder. BillMasen 12:49, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
62. Oppose I am in general opposed. WP:NOR in particualr is a policy which prohibits particular kinds of content, and is only partly a matter od sourcing or attribution. Something like WP:ATT might be a good joint summary, particualrly for new editors, but the separate polices should, IMO, remain separate. DES 12:54, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
63. Oppose. Quite apart from the concerns that people have presented above about the change in Misplaced Pages policy (as a result of merging two distinct policies and one guideline into one policy), I think there's also the risk that this new page combines several ideas into one, making it more confusing for new users. RobbieG 13:00, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
64. Oppose merging WP:NOR. Everything else could probably live together, but WP:NOR is a distinct concept. --BigDT 13:39, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
65. Oppose the merger. Also, not thrilled about the evilness of voting here, either. RΞDVΞRS ✖ ЯΞVΞЯSΞ 13:49, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
66. Oppose - I don't mind if WP:V and WP:RS are merged, as they could easily cover the same material; but WP:NOR must be kept separate; No original research is a focus that defines an encyclopedia and Misplaced Pages itself, in that it is the publication of a compilation of work from other people, and that needs to be stressed in its own article. Verifiability and reliable sources are important for stylistic reasons, in that for people to write good articles, they need to reference correctly and use the correct type of sources required for a good encyclopedic article. They are different things. This keeness by those few users on WP to merge and wreck every bit of policy is not right - there must be two separate policies for these two things I have mentioned, and ATT doesn't adequately cover either of them, or separate them out enough. JRG 13:52, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
67. Oppose - if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I agree that NOR is distinct enough to need its own page. pfctdayelise (talk) 13:57, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
68. Strongly Oppose - The issues in both policies and the guideline are not fully thought out yet, in my opinion. Merger will only compound the problems inherent especially the WP:RS policy which globally skews very many articles WP:NPOV(Sarah777 14:02, 31 March 2007 (UTC))
69. Oppose merge. Raystorm 14:17, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
70. Strongly oppose. Merging the three distinct policies into one is an excessively broad-brush approach from both a practical and conceptual standpoint:
    • Practically, the policy pages’ most important role is as a guide to settle content disputes, which requires tools of precision. Policy components need to be formulated in bite-sized concepts in order to be of value to users;
    • Conceptually, the merger misses the mark by blurring important distinctions and placing undue weight on peripheral issues, notwithstanding adherents’ assertions that it reflects the existing policies. In particular, the resulting product (‘Attribution’) suggests that the fundamental test for inclusion at Misplaced Pages is one of form rather than substance.

    To be specific, attribution was originally designed to ensure a representation of the variety of views that exist on any given subject. Whilst this is a laudible goal (particularly on controversial topics), placing it up front and centre creates the impression that the existence of a source for information is more important than its quality. Whilst all at Misplaced Pages agree that ‘truth’ is an unachievable standard, the purpose of the policies is to try to get as close as possible to an objective presentation of the facts, i.e. to make sure that Misplaced Pages is an high-quality, reliable information resource. That central aim is obscured by the current proposal. -- Really Spooky 14:48, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

71. Strongly oppose, particularly with regard to WP:NOR (which I think needs to be more flexible), they are distinct, key content policies whose merger would only make them more difficult to evolve further as new problems need to be addressed. The best way to keep them adaptable to new situations, as well as to keep them easier to understand, is to keep them separate. --Jim_Lockhart 14:56, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
72. Strong oppose. These need to remain separate to be a vital Misplaced Pages resource. I agree that one large policy will easily be ignored. GreenJoe 14:58, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
73. Oppose I also agree that one large resource will be more easily ignored. Bmg916_Sign 15:00, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
74. Strong oppose Something can be attributable, but not verifiable, due to reliable-sources concerns. Everything can be boiled down to NPOV, but that doesn't mean we should. Xiner (talk, email) 15:01, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
75. Oppose merge and keep all. Carlosguitar 15:03, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
76. Oppose I don’t think combining WP:V and WP:NOR into one policy is a good idea. WP:NOR stands on its own very nicely. I also agree with Miss Mondegreen's input entered above. JungleCat Shiny!/Oohhh! 15:10, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
77. Oppose. The existing policies were working, even though there were arguments. This is a huge policy change, not a combination of existing policies. For example, the "unpublished synthesis of published material" section is new policy, not in WP:RS. This "Attribution" page suddenly become policy, just from commentary on its own talk page, which is wierd. --John Nagle 15:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
78. Opppose the merge. Two reasons: first, "no original research" needs to be retained as a stand-alone policy because of its usefulness in communicating our purpose to cranks and POV-pushers (and its conceptual distinctness from mere "verifiability" and "attribution," which both seem like broader ideas in scope, but also weaker and less specific). Second, as I have said since it first appeared, I strongly oppose the apparent attempt to make WP:RS into policy, since I believe it is a misguided attempt to enforce reliance on (what seem to Wikipedians with all our general systemic biases) majority opinions and mainstream sources, and hence would be a major and undesirable change to policy. -- Rbellin|Talk 15:20, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
79. Oppose, not everything can be attributed. Truth is more imporatnt thant attribution and these policies and guidelines should be seperate. They are all different concepts and merging them will only cause havoc and some confusion at first, especially with some editors who are newbies or edit Misplaced Pages occasionally. WP:RS as policy is a no-no for me. Terence 15:22, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
80. An emphatic No: We are talking of different principles evolved over a period of time to be merged into one. In my opinion, it will create more confusion than bringing into any cohesion. Simplicity is a nice attribute, but for the sake of simplicity and popularity, we should not merge things which are different in nature. I am reminded of these words: Ye shall keep My statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind; thou shalt not sow thy field with two kinds of seed; neither shall there come upon thee a garment of two kinds of stuff mingled together . --Bhadani (talk) 15:41, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
81. Oppose. They stand strong on their own, and no longer having them distinct may, over time, weaken how they are viewed. Combining the policies may also discourage further evolution. --Czj 16:04, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
82. Strong oppose. Works fine as it is... -- xompanthy 16:13, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
83. Oppose. Two different principles, should remain separate. --Bookworm857158367 16:17, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
84. Oppose per Jimbo and other comments here. NOR is a distinct principle from V. ITAQALLAH 16:20, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
85. Oppose I agree with all other comments. They are different principles and should be kept seperate. Computerjoe's talk 16:47, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
86. Oppose, as per all other comments. --Releeshan 16:52, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
87. Oppose for the same reasons as everyone else ^^^^. Smomo 16:54, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
88. Strong oppose. The arguments above say it well enough. --Sable232 16:58, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
89. Oppose. Shmuel 17:09, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
90. Oppose It is too much to put everything in one policy. Clarity is better served by keeping thi sbroad spectrum in separate parts.--Runcorn 17:19, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
91. Oppose benefits if any don't justify the upheaval --BozMo talk 17:56, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
92. Oppose Attribution is attribution. It is not a neutral point of view and a verifiable whatever-you-like and anything else remotely connected to it. —  $PЯINGrαgђ  17:59, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
93. Oppose - I think the present policies are fine. --BenBurch 18:00, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
94. Strong oppose. This is an obvious attempt to weaken our verifiability, notability and reliability rules to allow unsubstantiated crapola into the encyclopedia. If this goes through, soon we will be citing 9/11 Conspiracy Theorist Alex Jones as a worthy source!  MortonDevonshire  Yo  · 18:07, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
95. Oppose - We have been referring to WP:V, WP:NOR, and WP:RS separately when dealing with newbies, content disputes, and AfDs. Why are we going to change this? I have mentioned this before: the consequences of this merge could be bad. The cons, in this case, outweigh the pros! There will be massive confusion among editors that are currently on vacation, wiki-break, military, semi-retirement, and busy users! They probably don't have the slightest notion that this is happening. Also, we will also have to reinstruct our newbies. Many users use the adoption program, and AFAIK we have taught our newbies the principles of WP:V, WP:NOR, and WP:RS. Would this merger not cause chaos within the little confused minds of these newbies? (I was confused myself the first month I came here). The results of this merge simply does not help the community.--Ed 18:08, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
96. Oppose for reasons I stated above (comment beginning "Agree"). Kasreyn 18:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC) Addendum: my above comment was moved to talk. My reasons were: that I feel far too many WP editors have never bothered to fully read the relevant policy pages in the first place. Combining them into an omnibus will only increase the learning curve and serve no useful purpose. Kasreyn 08:20, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
97. Oppose what is the *need* for a change and what are the benefits? this has never, ever been explained in a satisfactory way. to me it seems like change for change's sake, and the result is going to result in worse edit wars and more inaccurate content. if anything that is attributatable to a reliable source is allowed in, then any random gossip which happens to be printed in a reliable source somewhere can be stated as fact. current policies prevent this and I would hate to to see this go. with the media scrutiny on Misplaced Pages right now I think we should be trying to make the encyclopedia more rather than less accurate and the KISS principle also applies. I was a newbie only a few months ago and the form of the current policies was very common sense and very easy to understand. I agree with many of the other comments above. DanielT5 18:24, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
98. Oppose, just because I think it is unnecessary and I don't think we should reward people who dick around with policy for fun. The policies are mostly fine as they are, let's change them less and not more. Recury 18:35, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

    Oh, and also think polls like this are awesome and we should actively do more to try to get people involved in discussions about policy. Recury 18:37, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

99. Strong Oppose, it is completely unnecceary, and basically, I strongly agree with everything in Misplaced Pages:Attribution/against_the_merge#Reasons_not_to_merge_the_pages. — Ian Lee (Talk - Contribs - Sign - Gimme!) 18:54, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
100. Strong Oppose I don't see the point to the merger in the first place, and I still see issues with how the wording actually changes the meaning of things like WP:RS. Part of WP:ATT states that you can use any source you choose, not just reliable sources. This is a problem, as I could just put something up on the internet and cite myself. Bad idea for several reasons. Not the least, is that I can allow the link to get hits, and google traffic, then fill with adverts, and remove the content. (this has been done before, see this. So I oppose this based on the fact that it is changing the meaning and spirit of WP:RS, and I still don't understand why this merger is at all needed. Whats wrong with the original 2 policies and 1 guideline?
     • In addition I don't like how my above objections were glossed over, and talk about how to meet my objection did not even happen. I just got one post saying that spam is nolonger a problem due to nofollow, but as I stated in this spam is a problem, and that type of spamming has been done before.
     • In addition here is something rather disturbing, though this is not my reason for opposing, I do feel that it makes this poll biased. (see this) —— Eagle101 19:01, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
101. Oppose. Saying that the entirety of Verifiability, No Original Research, and Reliable sources can be reduced to Attributability seems overly reductionist. The V/NOR policies may have had problems, but editors are misinterpreting Attributability in new ways. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't. Gimmetrow 19:03, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
102. Oppose. It's a good idea to have the ideas of each all in one place, but it's a poor idea to do so for the purposes of making new policy. If we wanted, we could merge all of Misplaced Pages's policy into one concise page, but it would be ridiculous and thus it's the same thing here. It's fine as it was. _└┘talk  19:14, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
103. Oppose over-merging these essentially different ideas. Andre (talk) 19:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
104. Oppose I think the counter-arguments outweigh the arguments in favor. --D. Webb 19:18, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
105. Strong oppose. Everything can be attributed, and as such, this policy will weaken the already sometime miserable quality of wikipedia further. Although it looks like a simple merger at this time, over time, people will go by he word itself and it might very well become a perfect tool for POV pushers. We need a strengthening of policies, not weakening. -- Kim van der Linde 19:22, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
106. Oppose. The policies proposed for merger are not similar; there is a fundamental difference between WP:V and WP:NOR. A lot of original research which is found in Misplaced Pages articles is of the "synthesis" type, and is perfectly verifiable; it is the putting them together which constitutes the original research. In general I am attracted by the argument of simplifying things, but here what is proposed is a simplification by ignoring these fundamental differences, and that is damaging. Sam Blacketer 19:28, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
107. Oppose per Wales and other arguments against merger. Distinct and separate policies are to remain as such. ~ UBeR 19:34, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
108. Oppose. The policies are more intuitively and easily understood as separate entities, especially WP:NOR. Wasted Time R 19:42, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
109. Oppose. Links to WP:NOR should not also be links to, e.g., WP:V. Sdedeo (tips) 19:43, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
110. Oppose WP:V was originally about the use of sources to enable fact checking, and for most editors still is. This merge into WP:ATT is another step towards abandoning any sense of aiming for accuracy in articles, leaving the accuracy of attribution as the only issue. And that would be a bad thing. --Audiovideo 19:56, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
111. Oppose - They may seem the same initially, but there are differences, even if they're subtle. Sources can be verifiable but not the most reliable; you can have verifiable information that's still original research. I prefer things as three separate, clear pages. Crystallina 20:01, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
112. Oppose. Partly because the ideas are different, partly because Verifiability != attribution, and partly because you could attribute something that will violate NOR but pass V/RS. - Penwhale | 20:08, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
113. Oppose all. Under the current policy they would become, I think it would too confusing for many users, both new and old, to tell someone they are "out of line" when doing something. Telling them to keep going back to the same policy again and against will probably earn the person who warned them an "eff off" and continue doing so, thinking its just some elitist policy and that they don't give a ... crap. To me, all three ideas are different and do not deserve to be merged together. Disinclination 20:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
114. Oppose I see no benefit to collapsing the three items into one, and I can see a few negatives. •Jim62sch• 21:17, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
115. Oppose It has been said that people are more likely to look at one page than three. However, people are far less likely to get the message from one huge concatenation.--Brownlee 21:59, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
116. OpposeI feel that there is a distinct difference between the concept of "Original Research" and "Attribution" that may be lost in the merge. I am not actually opposed to all original research either. But I think for controversial issues, the distinction should be maintained. But I also should say, some of the work in the new article should make its way BACK to the others. I also think RS should be better in giving a sense of priority with regard to the quality of sources. --Blue Tie 22:04, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
117. Oppose mergers. The merge into WP:ATT is exactly opposite of what should be happening. Simplifying and condensing multiple policies/guidelines into one policy only dilutes the policies and makes it harder to defend Misplaced Pages against editors who do not have high standards for citing reliable sources. We should go back into the history of Misplaced Pages:Verifiability, Misplaced Pages:No original research and Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources and revive all of the good examples that were previously provided for how Wikipedians can work towards finding and using reliable sources. These policy pages should provide good examples of how to make the distinction between doing the work that needs to be done to evaluate the reliability of sources and accurately express the meaning of sources without allowing unwanted original research to slip into Misplaced Pages. --JWSchmidt 22:29, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
118. Strongly Oppose I think that the "contradictions" need to be cleared up, but that merging the policies is a step in the wrong direction. Clarity is one thing and so a combined policy may need to be implemented above these pages which is much less specific, but these pages need to remain seperate. Adam McCormick 22:48, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
119. Oppose I think the clarity, readability, and ability to comment upon these policies is better served by their remaining separate. Lastly, the ability to easily point to a reason why a change was made in some other article is improved by having the pointers be more specific. --LDC 23:30, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
120. Oppose. The three distinct ideas behind these three policies are best reinforced when kept seperately. Italiavivi 23:41, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
121. I Oppose. What does No Original Research have to do with Verifiability & Reliable Resources? Original Research is Verifiable. Two different policies here, not three.Niubrad 23:44, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
122. Oppose. Much of the above, plus I object to the "reasonable adult" clause being dropped. Azate 00:36, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
123. Oppose WP:OR and WP:RS provides many additional useful detials as to what is and isn't a reliable source that WP:ATT simply doesn't cover.--Sefringle 01:21, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
124. Oppose. Misplaced Pages's policy and structure are an anarcho-tyranny: law without order, a constant busybodying about behavior that does not derive from a shared moral consensus. Nothing here changes anything. Yakuman (数え役満) 01:23, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
125. Oppose While it may be nice as a guideline or an FAQ, the policies it attempts to merge are different enough that they deserve to remain seperate. -- Avi 02:50, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
126. Oppose Three distinct ideas are distilled in these three policies, and they seem to be effective.Fconaway 03:22, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
127. Oppose. The way I see it is that WP:NOR is the fundamental principle and must be kept. WP:V (or WP:ATT) is a quasi-mechanical means to that end. Allowing the means to replace the end, or supercede the end, or obscure the end, is not a good idea. Bucketsofg 03:31, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
128. Oppose If wikipedia is to maintain ideals such as verifiability, etc. then these should be individually listed and explained. Merger only makes sense if "attribution" is the new standard; which encompasses far more possibilities than these three parts, not that I am opposed to this as some current standards are too strict, but if one wishes to keep the same strict standards then one must keep the same specific delineations and explanations of policy. --Belg4mit 03:37, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
129. Oppose. I'd be happier if the policy of reliable sources had the flexibility of a guideline. —Remember the dot 04:29, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
130. Strongly Oppose. It is important to have the specificity that the separate policies offer. Stating that a page fails to achieve Attribution does not have the same power as specifically saying violates NOR or RS. It hampers effective communication that makes for better editors. --Robb0995 05:47, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
131. Oppose Shouldn't be jumbled together as such but would keep "Attribution" as a general short summary of the three policies to help instruct new editors. - Patman2648 06:09, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
132. Strongly Oppose. "Reliable sources" needs to be kept a guideline. And '"attributable ... not whether it is true"'? No way. --Lukobe 06:28, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
133. Oppose, per the excellent points made by the first comment, User:Rednblu. The policies should remain separate. If anything, the individual policies should be separately discussed, expanded upon, and allowed to evolve each in their own right. Smee 06:34, 1 April 2007 (UTC).
134. Strong oppose Merging separate policies into one page will make it harder to see the distinction between the different, and very important concepts. cyclosarin 06:46, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
135. Strong oppose Even as a relatively new editor, who has nevertheless created several articles, I realise that WP:V, WP:NOR and WP:RS are some of the core policies of WP. Lumping them all together in one will weaken them and I see no reason for this. By all means discuss and modify the three existing policies if necessary, but do not take away their importance by merging them together under a new policy.Ivygohnair 08:10, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
136. Oppose with proposal I have been thinking about this for about a week now, and I don't think there should be a merger as such. The trio of codes - WP:V, WP:NOR, and WP:RS are clarified enough, and as in any legal-type debate they may be interpreted slightly differently by different users. No code in history of mankind has ever been free of interpretation, so why this sudden urge to clarify? Well, WP:ATT may serve as a starting point to the trio, as in an introduction or summary, but the original needs to be kept and should ideally supercede the introduction or summary. These codes may be organized in a portal-like format (Misplaced Pages:Tutorial may be a good example) for better access, along with cross referencing. Cheers. Aditya Kabir 08:22, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
137. Oppose Keep the policies seperate. Merger would eventually lead to inclusion of all borderline cases as such will contribute to the pollution of Misplaced Pages. FelisLeo 09:11, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
138. Oppose merging guidelines and policies together is just that. A bad thing.  Grue  09:15, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
139. Oppose merge seems to obscure different, relevant, ideas for good editing. -- Craigtalbert 10:15, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
140. I oppose the merging of three separate and distinct codes into one, on the basis of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" and "Keep it simple!" Creating one "super-policy" will tend to confuse and confound, rather than to soldify and simplify. I applaud their efforts, but I must state that I believe the basic reasoning for this merge to be faulty. In order to recover from "Essjay" and all the other controversies lately because of attribution, original research, or reliability, I believe we should indeed redefine and possibly rewrite what these standards mean to us, but not to combine these codes. Just my two bits.... - NDCompuGeek 10:21, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
141. I Oppose the replacement of No Original Research" and "Verifiability" by a single policy of "Attribution". I would not mind if the policies coexisted as different formulations of the same basic principles. I do not believe that any kind of reformulation of the basic principles for using sources and references will cause new editors or editors without academic training to suddenly understand it all at once. No matter what the policy is called we will have to explain it in detail everytime a new editor joins us, and in my eyes it is to explain it on the basis of the existant policies than it will be with the new one. ·Maunus· ·ƛ· 11:08, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
142. I Oppose the replacement of No Original Research" and "Verifiability" by a single policy of "Attribution" if you want to keep your Attribution page, keep it, but don't crop the three into one lone page.--The Joke 11:29, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
143. Oppose - It is simpler as different policies and since the people who violate the policies tend to be on the "slow" side, the policies should be as simple as possible. Also, it is confusing to have no original research grouped at a policy called "attribution". -- Kjkolb 12:20, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
144. Oppose as per SandyGeorgia, entry number four. --Ministry of Truth 12:39, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
145. No on WP:ATT. No on the merger idea at the moment.--Klimov 12:43, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
146. Oppose i think that the system is working fine currently, dont mess with something unless it doesnt work. Twenty Years 13:35, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
147. Sure why not? --StevenL 14:22, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
148. Oppose The merger of these guidelines under a blanket policy called "attribution" waters down the individual policies. Editors inexperienced with conflict are much less likely to understand "you've violated the wikipedia attribution policy" than they are "you've violated the wikipedia policy prohibiting original research." --Sixtrojans 18:44, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
149. Oppose; SandyGeorgia and others bring up good points. There is no good reason to do this, as far as I'm concerned. This poll is also quite one-sided in its presentation at the top; there are no points given against the proposal. Ral315 » 15:06, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
150. Oppose -- The current policies should be clarified into stronger policies not merged into a weaker one. --PTR 15:14, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
151. Oppose -- The existing policies do appear to have some overlap, but that is because they deal with the same subject but from differing points of view. The existing policies (and the one non-policy that somehow got promoted while the smoke was thickest) are sufficient. — SWWright 16:08, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
152. Mildly oppose -- A combined page would have its uses, but would be large and unwieldy. I can almost see the newbies' faces as their scroll bar shrinks rapidly at the sheer size of a page like that. We're not doing ourselves any favours by putting off new users, especially with such an important page as this. Besides, look at the server load! CarrotMan 17:03, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
153. Oppose -- I think that they are much clearer for new editors when separated out into three individual policies. —Jeremy (talk) 17:19, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
154. Strong Oppose Oppse because something can be properly attributed but still be original research thus violate policy. Clearer when seperated as they presently are. WikipedianProlific 17:42, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
155. Oppose. The old titles are much clearer and can clarify the exact reason for wanting deletion on WP:XfD. --M1ss1ontomars2k4 17:49, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
156. Oppose – Separate policy pages make linking to the relevant policy easier, and strengthens the (IMHO very helpful) three-pillared approach (everything's better in threes). Lexicon (talk) 18:23, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
157. Oppose-these are all different things, as you can have an unreliable source, but that is different from doing your own research. Also, three pages (it is three right?) will be much more concise and easier to understand than one long article. Patar knight 18:36, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
158. Oppose. Keep the old guidelines clear and separate. Enough said already. NVO 18:46, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
159. Oppose. The ultimate effect of the new WP:ATT policy will be to lower the quality of sourcing in Misplaced Pages. Chapeau D'If 18:55, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
160. Strongly oppose. - In controversial topics (not just scientific ones, either), RS is essential to prevent nonsense, or anonymous IPs posting so-called "reliable info" from their own websites. OR, RS, and V answer three very different questions: OR says "Did you find this or do it yourself?" RS says "If a group with an agenda on a topic says something outrageous, is it appropriate to add?" and V says "Did someone make this up or is it real?" ATT seems to be "It's OK if it came from someplace, we don't care where." The original three policies do not apply equally in all cases (a souce can pass V and OR and still not be RS). Therefore, they should be separate. ATT undermines the encyclopedic process. MSJapan 19:06, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
161. Oppose - agree with MSJapan above. -- Jeff3000 19:09, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
162. Oppose - I'm relatively new here and I find the separate policies helpful. WP:ATT is encyclopedic itself in scope, and a daunting barrier to entry for new contributors. Not broken, don't fix. -- Townlake 19:30, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
163. Oppose. (1) In my opinion, never has there been given a clearly stated, good reason why the policies should be merged. I do not like the "less words are better" argument and "a different name is better"; I think a better policy is better. (2) I think the reliable sources part must be hashed out more. The wording in the old reliable sources policy is much stronger in my opinion, and I worry that the new policy makes fending off POV-pushers more difficult. That some think the reliable sources policy is strengthened while some think it is weakened concerns me. It should be obvious to all that this is an improvement. (3) Finally, it should not be ambiguous as to whether policy has changed, which it seems to be by reading the discussion. Olin 19:45, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
164. OpposeThere are serious doubts regarding the merger, and no convincing reason for it. Merging the pages will serve no purpose other than to increase confusion of diseperate concepts. Nathanww 20:20, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
165. Oppose Allof them are very different. Also, all of them are lenghthy alone. To merge them, a ton of information eould have to left out for the WP:ATT to be readable. ɱўɭĩє_wrong 20:26, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
166. Oppose The path to Hell is paved with good intentions. Done in good faith, I'm sure, but leading to bad results... muddling up exisiting policies that were clearer as separate documents, making changes that seem likely to loosen standards, potentially compromising the work of many hard working editors.zadignose 20:28, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
167. Oppose Keeping these three principles separate is the best way to ensure that these essential ideas clear for everyone. --sony-youth 20:41, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
168. Oppose. "No original research" is an oft-forgotten rule. It will forgotten even more often if it is demoted to a subsection of a larger page. Additionally, I strongly oppose having an ATT page at all, unless it's just a "nutshell summary" which clearly states that the individual NOR, V, and RS pages contain the official policies. Otherwise, I foresee endless confusion when one editor accuses another of violating the NOR subsection of ATT, and the second editor says No, I am obeying the NOR policy as stated on the NOR page. — Lawrence King 20:45, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
169. Oppose The three separate pages are long in themselves, and the merged page is simply gigantic. I don't think WP:Attribution could be reduced to a manageable length without losing something important. Also, the pages' titles summarize their meaning; with WP:Attribution, we would have to visit the link to know what we were being referred to, and the referrer would have to put an anchor in the link. --Brilliand 20:51, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
170. Strong oppose Each of the topics is sufficiently important and nuanced to deserve a focused treatment. I think WP:ATT is well intentioned, but in the end such a broad-brush approach is apt to cause more confusion than it resolves. Raymond Arritt 20:58, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
171. Strong oppose Merging these is completely pointless and takes away from the importance of each specific policy. —Sarcha 45 21:02, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
172. Strong oppose—I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of merging these pages before each of them is thoroughly rationalised. The arguments presented by the proponents ignore the psychological effect on editors (particularly newbies) of a large amount of information in one place. Nothing wrong with links. Tony 21:05, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
173. Respectful Oppose. I don't think the merger will make life simpler in the long run, and the ideas behind each existing policy are distinct. GChriss <always listening><c> 21:31, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
174. weak oppose, while I see the benefits of merger but I am worried it makes it more complicated for editors while refering to them as they can't be clear which part of those 3 they mean.Farmanesh 21:50, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
175. Oppose per above→LzyGenius 00:53, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
176. Oppose These are separate concepts, they often, but do not always overlap. Grouping distinct problems into a single monolithic category will promote confusion and abuse. This proposal sounds superficially reasonable, but the briefest reflection proves it is unwise. I hope some of the supporters listed above will reconsider the matter. --Osbojos 01:31, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
177. Oppose There is no "right answer" here. One could argue for merging all policies into a single document. But Misplaced Pages, young as it is, has developed a culture and I believe that culture is a vital component to its success--more vital than the exact wording of its policies. The terms V, NOR, RS, NPOV, AGF, etc, are part of the language of that culture. We have thousands of pages of discussion where those terms are used. Merge the terms and over time those discussions, where various boundaries have been hammered out and consensus formed, become meaningless to newcomers. Absent a compelling problem with the existing structure that can't be solved any other way, I think the importance of retaining our traditional policy structure weighs against a merge.--agr 02:08, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
178. Opposed formerly supported this, but after reading this my mind was changed. Chris M. 02:35, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
179. Oppose. (1) I disagree that all of the relevant information survived the move from the original policy pages to WP:ATT; (2) in the case of revision to WP:ATT such that everything did survive the move, this would become a merge for merging's sake. Dekimasuよ! 03:16, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
180. Oppose It is not in the best interest of Misplaced Pages to create an overarching word like "family values," or attribution, for policy that we can apply to all concerns. Frankly, I don't see any solid arguements regarding going against sticking with specificity. -- Wikipedical 03:52, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
181. Oppose, keep the different concepts separated. (SEWilco 03:56, 2 April 2007 (UTC))
182. I oppose this proposal. Neither the verifiability nor the NOR policies are broken; the problem lies in the existing policies actually being applied and enforced. Why waste all this time combining the things we have now, when we should be focusing on using those things? --Merovingian ※ Talk 04:19, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
183. Strong Oppose The three separate pages clarify the separate ideas, and I think we can afford the bandwidth. As has been said, Original Research can be both verifiable and reliable, while verifiable non-original research sources can be biased and therefore not reliable. I see no reason for this merger. -User:Umdunno 04:24, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
184. Moderate oppose. In the discussion phase, I distinguished between "no original research" and "verifiability" because you can have one problem without the other, and the overlap is not clean. Specifically, I believe the "synthesis clause" (WP:SYN) as a subset of WP:OR should not be lumped together with fundamental verifiability. First cite your references (WP:V and WP:RS); then we can worry about scenarios where there is WP:OR even with the references. Note that I am willing to merge WP:V with WP:RS; I just think WP:OR needs to stay separate. YechielMan 05:47, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
185. Oppose Things are fine the way they are. Let's keep the policies seperate. Raj712 06:24, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
186. Oppose. A good idea to move to simplification but will only lead to confusion. If it ain't broke don't fix it. —Moondyne 06:36, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
187. Oppose. A merge would make it more difficult to those less familiar with wikipedia to understand policy: the current names are clear, but attribution will not be clear or apparently relevant to many users. Drmaik 07:15, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
188. Oppose. I like the way it was, separate pages. 99of9 07:34, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
189. Oppose, on ethical, substantive, and procedural grounds:
     1. No compelling rebuttal has been adduced to Jimbo's observation that, "While policies like WP:V and WP:NOR are interrelated (as all of reality is interrelated), they are significantly different ideas and radical reductionists who see them as really being the same thing are, in my view, badly mistaken. When I say that something is original research, and when I say that something is unverifiable, I mean different things by those statements, as I am focusing on a different kind of deviation from good editing."
     2. People resort to and rely upon an encyclopedia in search of what is correct -- not merely what has been "attributed to a reliable source". Therefore, Misplaced Pages's standard of inclusion must trace back to truth. WP cannot be passive toward sourced but patently mistaken content, nor need it be aggressive toward undersourced but undisputed content.
     3. WP:ATT's consensus, as Jimbo noted, has been assumed rather than demonstrated. WP:OWN has taken root; dismissing input and inquiries, refusing to engage dissent, mischaracterizing disagreement as misconstrual or incomprehension, and peremptorily locking out non-cabal editors. Worst of all, in the consolidation of WP:V, WP:NOR and WP:RS, changes in emphasis and prevalent divergence in practice somehow went unnoticed so that these official policies got reified, perhaps unintentionally, into something that strikes too many of us as foreign to how articles in Misplaced Pages are actually edited. No changes may have been intended, but changes are perceived nonetheless -- yet furiously denied. Lethiere 08:06, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
190. Oppose I'd prefer to keep them separate. Quadzilla99 08:10, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
191. Strong Oppose:These three pages deal with entirely different aspects of WP's articles. Merging these topics into one does not seem appropriate. Bowsy 08:15, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
192. Oppose It may do no harm to combine all three policies but there is no clear benefit to doing so to me and it may lead to muddying the waters in some cases. - Dan D. Ric 08:38, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
193. No', they are different concepts and I don't see that there is anything to be gained from putting it all into one page. Existing policies should be improved and reworded if there are issues with understanding. Veesicle (Talk) (Contribs) 12:13, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
194. Oppose I think it would be better not to keep them separate. - Kleinzach 12:48, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
195. Oppose different concepts, no clear benefit to merging them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisjohnson (talk • contribs) 13:11, April 2, 2007
196. Oppose They are different, keep them separate. Havok (T/C/e/c) 13:49, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
197. Oppose Although these are related concepts, they are different, and having seperate policies/guidelines enables a much more nuanced look at the issue. Combining them all together results in a confusing mess, replacing clarity with murkiness. As the usual argument - why fix what isn't broken? These policies have a successful history - no deficiency is obvious, or even articulated with any significance. Consensus for the change only appeared to exist because those of us who'd oppose weren't watching - many of us would, could never imagine anyone screwing around with those policies. WilyD 13:53, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
198. Oppose per Dan D. Ric -- Boothman _/tɔːk/ 14:10, 2 April 2007 (UTC).
199. Oppose I think it would be better not to keep them separate. Ulflarsen 16:19, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
200. Oppose: As was said before, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Simplification is good, but such important and distinct policies (and guidelines! Mixing of policies and guidelines = bad idea) shouldn't be considered as one. .V. 16:27, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
201. Oppose - I applauded and even presented a barnstar to SlimVirgin for proposing an attempt at simplification, but it just didn't work out well. Too many people see subtle differences between the pages. Too much history, too much confusion over whether it was promoting RS to policy instead of guideline status. Too much detail lost in trying to merge them together. Not worth it really. File the whole thing away as an interesting learning exercise. Archive WP:ATT, and progress as we were before. Johntex\ 16:43, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
202. Oppose Like most experienced wikipedians, I can see that WP:V, WP:NOR, and WP:RS are 3 sides of the same stone. That said, I would prefer if they were kept as seperate and distinct policies rather than merged into one metapolicy such as WP:ATT on the basis of the following arguments:
     1. If WP:V, WP:NOR, and WP:RS are demoted to subsections of WP:ATT, they lose a great deal of their punch.
     2. Although it is obvious to experienced wikipedians that WP:V, WP:NOR, and WP:RS are interelated, it is not so for newbies. WP:V, WP:NOR, and WP:RS better help newbies understand wikipedia as they are more accessable and to the point than WP:ATT
     3. I have a feeling that this proposal has been foisted on wikipedia without there being any real WP:CONSENSUS that it is needed. The support that the proposal is gaining now is more to do with bandwagonism than consensus.
     4. WP:V, WP:NOR, and WP:RS are here to stay as long as they are distinct policies. Make them subsections of a metapolicy such as WP:ATT, and it suddenly becomes a lot easier to get rid of them at some point in the future.
     5. Jimbo Wales seems strongly opposed to the proposal, and no convincing rebuttal has been made to the concerns he raises here--Fergie 16:48, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
203. Oppose: Merging NOR, V, and RS makes it more difficult to say in an edit summary why an individual edit is being rejected or called suspect. I really like the ability to say in an edit summary: 'Edit fails WP:NOR (No original research)'. 'No original research' is a semi-obvious phrase that a casual editor who doesn't spend all their time politicking and reading policy can understand, and may not require a round of 'But it isn't original research!'. I think a policy's title should nutshell what the entire page is about to reduce editor misunderstandings. Rejecting an edit on 'Attribution' grounds is only semi-obvious if something isn't "Attributed". Original research can be "Attributed". This is going to cause confusion over and over again to editors that aren't familiar with Misplaced Pages.
     On a related note, I had no idea that WP:ATT had become policy until this debate went public a couple weeks ago. How many Misplaced Pages editors have been using WP:V and WP:NOR in edits and talk discussion without actually knowing that the policies were defunct? This strikes me as a problem. I understand that this was considered to be a public debate, but it certainly appears to me that major policy changes do not disseminate reasonably to the community when put in place, much less proposed. I would oppose this change on the grounds alone that I didn't know that a major foundation policy changed without my knowing, and now an attempt is being made to retroactively ask for the community's approval. The fact that I don't check policy pages daily is not my problem. This is something that the admin level (where changes are proposed) might take into consideration. Skybunny 16:58, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
204. Nope. --NathanDW 17:19, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
205. Oppose - supporting many of the objec~tions above, and simply because instructions or objections which are not even specific is too easy, in fact we could rather consider getting more detailed, not less. Arcarius 17:46, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
206. Oppose: Perhaps we should just merge the Bill of Rights the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution into one document. I mean, they're the same principles of equality, liberty and good governance. I happen to like compartmentalization.--Patrick 17:48, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
207. Strongest possible oppose -- WP:NOR has nothing to do with attribution. This merge would be akin to forcing a square peg into a round hole simply because the hole is there. Doc Sigma (wait, what?) 18:32, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Neutral/qualified/compromise/other

See also alternative sections in this survey: In broad support of WP:ATT & In broad opposition to WP:ATT

Refactoring note: If you replied to someone else's vote, it may have been moved to the talk page, see here.

1. I oppose this merger, but support, in principle, some other merger between the two policies.
   • I deprecate this poll, as started by suprise, without consensus on the wording. The one thing on which there was consensus was that this was going to start, if possible, on 00:00 April 2. See here
   • I came to this poll intending to support WP:ATT
   • I agree with most of it, at least as I understand it; nevertheless
   • I strongly oppose the notion that WP:ATT has, or has ever had, consensus; any appearances to the contrary are probably the result of the same bullying and reversion which has resulted in this pseudo-poll.
   • I strongly reject WP:ATT as the merger; it will have to be thoroughly considered to be acceptable as such.
   • I recommend that if there is no consensus to merge to WP:ATT, that its separate paragraphs, which do have considerable value, be considered for inclusion in WP:V and WP:NOR. By the time that is over, we will see what is generally acceptable, and they will have the necessary common language so that a merge, if approved, will be a largely mechanical process, not involving significant rewriting. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 01:34, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

   Refactoring note: Septentrionalis created a new sections titled "Oppose ATT as merger, but support some merge" and "Neutral/compromise", instead of a "Neutral/qualified/compromise" section, and recategorised the votes of others, in this edit. He notified editors whose votes he had moved of this, asking them to move their votes if he had miscategorised them, for an example see this message, which stated, "My !vote is not broad opposition to ATT, but opposes this merger to its present text. I have classified your vote in the same category; please correct if I am wrong." — Armed Blowfish (talk|mail) 20:06, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

2. (ec x2)I oppose opposition to this poll, as it is merely a poll; if you feel that a differently-worded poll should take place, you are free to make one. A poll exists simply for us to discuss a consensus, not to vote on a choice of two or three pre-worded items. See Misplaced Pages:Polling is not a substitute for discussion and WP:NOT#DEMOCRACY for the difference between "voting" and "discussing," as we are doing here. V-Man - /_C 05:00, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
3. I oppose Misplaced Pages:Attribution being policy. I support Misplaced Pages:Attribution being kept as a summary with a status like WP:5P, should people choose to maintain it. Otherwise, it can be marked as historical. In such a summary, I support Misplaced Pages:Verifiability and Misplaced Pages:No original research being kept in the summary. However, I strongly oppose Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources being part of WP:ATT. Firstly, I believe WP:RS is more of a Misplaced Pages:Neutral Point of View, particularly WP:NPOV#Undue_weight, issue than a WP:V/WP:ATT one. Secondly, this blurs the distinction between policy and guideline. Thirdly, WP:RS has been historically controversial when it comes to the details, and it is best if it has it's own page for us to attempt to reach consensus on. I am neutral about whether this poll is in fact open or not. — Armed Blowfish (talk|mail) 04:43, 31 March 2007 (UTC), 05:20, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
4. WP:RS should not be promoted from controversial guideline to core policy. People shouldn't make changes while saying "We're just clarifying what was there!", and then turn around and claim that nothing at all was changed. And all opinions which are not "Yes, every part of this idea is good" or "No, every part of this idea is bad" shoudldn't be lumped in this section as they are. -Amarkov moo! 05:03, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
5. I, liked Armedblowfish, support Misplaced Pages:Attribution being kept as a summary with a status like WP:5P, but I do not have Armedblowfish's qualms about including WP:RS in the summary. Thus, I think WP:ATT should summarize WP:NOR, WP:V, and WP:RS but I'm unconvinced that it should replace any or all of them. · j e r s y k o talk · 05:05, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
   • I'm with Jersyko on that. WP:ATT can be used for general reference on the broad policies regarding attribution, while it will still be useful in the future to be able to refer to the individual WP:RS, WP:NOR, and WP:V. Even a brief mention of WP:CITE would keep it in context. Having this system will keep Misplaced Pages organized and familiar in the same style for those who are navigating WP:PAG for the first time. V-Man - /_C 05:20, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
6. I Moderate SupportOppose WP:ATT -- Merger is nice to help clarify these policies into a more definitive one. I do believe the merger shortens the definitions down too much however. Their current form does not represent the former policies and all that they entail. MrMacMan 05:09, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

   Let me try to clarify my views -- WP:ATT is a great thing. The summary of the 3 policies is very nice to have... but it shouldn't replace them. I don't believe in this 'poll'. Keep it separate, you can have this as a guide... not policy. MrMacMan 05:38, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

7. I support the concept of merging the articles, but I do not support putting attributability above truth. False content should not be included just because it is attributable. Jwolfe 05:41, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
8. I do not care what happens. I think there's too much fuss over exactly where the information lies. It shouldn't matter where it is, so long as it exists in an easily accessible location. The page isn't important; the content is. --clpo13 06:12, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
9. Erm... Neutral? While I do agree that WP:RS should definitely remain separate from WP:ATT, I don't object to the union of WP:NOR and WP:V in WP:ATT, provided there is broad concensus to do so. -Jeske 06:26, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
10. weak abstain Salad Days 06:40, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
11. I strongly protest this poll. I can't even tell what "merge" means, which is why I'm "voting" everywhere. El_C 07:41, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
12. Neutral I like the wording of WP:ATT, I think it is an easier read for new users, which I'm clearly for, and lays out good ideas for an encyclopedia. I'd probably support it in some form as wikipedia document. In the end, both WP:ATT & (WP:RS, WP:V, WP:NOR) reach for the same goal but use different terms to achieve that goal. Whether or not we should replace one set of terms for another is a question that I'm not so sure about. I'm concerned about consistency as far as old discussions go, but wikipedia is a constantly changing document so that would work itself out shortly. In the end, I don't think either option will effect things much as long as we a lot of smart people working together who are friendly enough to bring new users into the fold. —Mitaphane _?|! 07:47, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
13. Partial opposition towards merging in RS. I'd also strongly prefer merging WP:NOR into WP:V name, rather than pulling out a new policy. CP/M |Misplaced Pages Neutrality Project| 09:16, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
14. Partial opposition due to the merger of large portions of WP:RS into the policy, since this would promote that material to the status of a policy even though it is currently a guideline. A determination of whether WP:RS should be promoted to policy, and what form that policy should take, should be a wholly separate issue from what has been purported as a procedural merger of WP:V and WP:NOR into a policy that is equivalent to the two policies in their separate forms. --Dachannien_Contrib 09:56, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
15. Partially oppose because adding WP:RS into WP:ATT changes the essential balance of V+NOR with NPOV as "twin pillars". The ATT treatment of "reliable sources" is far too simplistic without mention of bias. Issues of systemic bias have not been answered in discussion. I could support ATT now if the RS material in it is stubbed while work on that aspect continues; or in future I could support a bigger, more balanced reworking with NPOV too. VSerrata 09:58, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
16. Oppose the poll. It does not serves to build consensus; it just splits the "population" into two blocks. There are supporters of WP:ATT that might include WP:RS and those that might keep WP:RS (like me). No, totally biased poll that I won't be part of. --Neigel von Teighen | _{help with arbs?} 10:42, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
17. Qualified Support
    • Given that policy is scattered... without a doubt the structure of wikipolicy is generally scattered and untransparent, where most users don't even know how to tap in to reading all the wikipolicy - in fact I don't even know of a complete wikipolicy directory! and
    • Given that policy is untransparent... admins and editors alike constantly refer to policy without linking - especaially in AfD discussions - where once again policy is unreachable, unfamiliar, scattered, etc
      • Therefore I support in principal a merge (if it will help policy centralisation and policy transparency) -
      • With the following qualifiers:
        • 1) The existing policy articles are kept intact for an extended period of time (e.g. 6 months) before they are remove, if at all,
        • 2) The existing policy articles are to remain part of policy - even if this means amending the policies with community consensus.
        • 3) The WP:ATT article is to have anchors such as WP:ATT#Reliable_sources
        • 4) There must be shortcuts or redirects to anchors, so that
          • WP:ATT-RS will link to WP:ATT#Reliable_sources and
          • WP:ATT-NOR will redirect to WP:ATT#No_original_research
            
        • 5) Any and all policy must be ratified by community consensus
    • On those terms I give a Qualified Support Rfwoolf 11:02, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
18. Qualified support per Rfwoolf. Berserkerz Crit 21:10, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
19. Qualified support - the original three policies were partially overlapping, rather long, and IMO three sides of the same issue. A compact attribution policy page would be easier to digest, especially for newcomers. Some objecters make valid points about the new policy being different from the three old ones together. So an Attribution policy page would be better a reasonably short summary rather than a replacement of the three old policies. Boundary cases and more esoteric examples can stay on the V/NOR/RS pages. Han-Kwang 12:50, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
20. Keep all, have ATT as a summary-style policy of the other three, allowing people to refer to any one or all three together easily. I don't see the need to only have non-overlapping policies. —Pengo 13:16, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
21. Partial Support For merging especially Verifiability and Reliable sources. Although IMO, No original research seems a bit different then the first two and probably should stay separate. --JForget 13:35, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
22. Support with qualifications I like the idea of consolidating and simplifying the regulations where it would seem to contradict itself. However, I'm still a little concerned about it being an official policy. That's too strong for me. It should instead be a guideline. The reason being is that policies are too rigid to handle each individual case. For example, I could find sources to say that African-American people are feeble minded. I absolutely abhor that notion and think it's totally untrue, but it could be cited as such nonetheless. I think this brings up a huge issue that is beyond the scope of this discussion concerning Misplaced Pages. Do we want to be correct or do we want to be verified? We need some way of weaving out the fiction, published though it may be. I certainly don't have the answer to that.--Analogue Kid 14:44, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
23. Keep all per Pengo - ATT could well sum up the basic principles of these different areas, but they also need there own more extensive discussion. We're not limited in our ability to provide space for each. bd2412 T 15:31, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

    Refactoring note: This vote was originally added to a now nonexistent "Compromise/Neutral" section. See diff. — Armed Blowfish (talk|mail) 19:13, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

24. Apathetic Who cares where the policies are written? Hardly anyone will read them anyway, let alone follow them. More to the point, people should stop wasting time on policy debates and get on with writing the damn encyclopedia. Modest Genius 15:54, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

    Refactoring note: This vote was originally added to a now nonexistent "Compromise/Neutral" section. See diff. — Armed Blowfish (talk|mail) 19:23, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

25. Misplaced Pages editors could be having discussions over whether the content of the various articles on WP was, in fact, factual or not. Instead they are being diverted to these omphaloscopic discussions. Why? RandomCritic 16:32, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

    Refactoring note: This vote was originally added to a now nonexistent "Compromise/Neutral" section. See diff. — Armed Blowfish (talk|mail) 19:29, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

26. Marginal support I'm not opposed to the idea of a restructuring of these pages, and I don't feel that the arguments against it hold much weight, but I'm not convinced that all of the concerns relating to these policies are satisfied even by the merger. Mister.Manticore 17:01, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

    Refactoring note: This vote was originally added to a now nonexistent "Support some merger, but not this one." section. See diff. — Armed Blowfish (talk|mail) 19:33, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

27. Keep all and rename WP:ATT. Some points WP:ATT makes, particulary in the expanded FAC, are useful - I certainly support expanding and clarification on existing policies. However merging WP:V, WP:OR and WP:RS, per Jimbo, is a confusing and bad idea, not to mention that the very name - 'attribution' - simply furthers this confusion, as new users think more of 'authorship' than v/or/rs issues.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  18:18, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
28. Keep all, at least for a year. That would be most convenient and actually least confusing for new users. Let's be careful, especially since there is no clear consensus.Biophys 19:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
29. Neutral. I think the merger is harmless. It may be helpful to consolidate core policies in the area of attribution, but I am not sure it is necessary. It actually may be better to use our own summary style here: WP:ATT for a broad overview, retaining specific explanations in the other three pages. —ptk✰fgs 21:57, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
30. I'm NEUTRAL It didn't matter.
31. Not interested This is really boring, lets just write the bloody thing the best we can and to heck with policies. Excalibur 22:26, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
32. Merge the general idea of all of the polices into ATT, but keep the original pages as detailed information. Merging all of the above policies into one page seems feasible, but I have a feeling that merging everything into one ATT will tend to confuse users. This ATT concept is unrelated to the Heredity concept, where the topics there are so close together that they just cannot be separated, whereas ATT can be spread out in a few pages.  V60 23:00, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
33. Merge but Keep Shortcuts. The idea of having all the information together is a good idea, but it's extremely useful to be able to have a shortcut such as WP:NOR which goes directly to the information relevant to that particular problem. --Tim4christ17  00:26, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
34. None of the above. Excessive policies are the opposite of what wikipedia stands for, and the more details used when defining them, the less productive of an encyclopedia there will be. Stick with general overviews and guidelines. Not policies. Bushytails 02:38, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
35. Compromise. I like the idea of WP:ATT being a summary page, à la the five pillars. However, a full on merge seems like a solution to a nonexistant problem. There's too much detail on the individual pages to neatly merge it all to a single page, and it would cause unnecessary confusion with the hundreds of thousands of links that point to the individual pages. -- NORTH 03:38, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
36. Neutral, oppose as complete merger. Like many, I believe that attribution can exist as a summary of all three as a broad policy, but each one is integral and deserves a seperate article. bibliomaniac15 03:40, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
37. Neutral per Borachio. --Butseriouslyfolks 04:22, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
38. Don't Care This is so pointless. --Thankyoubaby 04:46, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
39. Neutral --Nitchell 05:22, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
40. I disagree with the way this poll was forced on the community. I think this action is polarizing (not the vote, as VIE advocates believe—but the mandate!). It may have the effect of making users who marginally care about the issue at hand comment on it, which makes conclusions even harder to glean. The boss also confuses me with this action, because I have been told over and over again that WP is not a democracy. When you advertise something very broadly and many users show up to chime in, you have all the appearance of a vote—regardless of how anyone suggests the results might be interpreted (and I don't think anybody has suggested anything; all the rosier! Let's see if a poll comes out the way we'd like; then we'll tell the voters how we'll respond to it!). I'm tired of semantics: the semantics of whether or not ATT changes policy; the semantics of whether or not this is a "vote". It's the kind of thing that would make Orwell roll over.

    My main concerns with ATT are pragmatics related to transitioning to a new policy page, and the possible loss of clarity in being able to point to this or that part of the concepts involved. The short version is that I would support ATT with a stronger emphasis in its "lead" on NOR, RS, and undue weight (linked to NPOV); and with new, simple, shortcuts (WP: style) to the traditional parts of it. –Outriggr § 07:45, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

41. Couldn't care less. Doesn't matter - V and RS probably belong together, maybe not OR, but who cares? This is such a waste of space. And voting is very, very evil - but once Jimbo stepped in like that we were going to wind up with a vote, inevitably. What a waste of breath this has all been. What's the difference? Moreschi 09:34, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
42. I protest this poll because it's been forced on me when I don't care. -iopq 10:03, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
43. Makes little difference in the grand scheme of things... Moseeki, 13:42, 1st April 2007 (CEST)
44. Waste of time Why are we always splitting hair like that over questions like this, instead of writing an encyclopedia? At this rate, soon we will be discussing which is the correct side for peeling boiled eggs! --Itub 12:10, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
45. Oppose NOR and Verifiability are different concepts dml 15:06, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
46. Weak qualified support per Rfwoolf. When giving people advice, particularly those new to the project, I think it's extremely important to be able to give them a direct link to the exact part of policy that is relevant. Therefore I think that anchors and redirects to them are very much necessary if the community take the decision to go ahead with a merge. I do agree that the merge will be a good thing if it succeeds in making the policy simpler to understand and more coherent. Will (aka Wimt) 16:11, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
47. Oppose RS being promoted to policy Would support if that single issue could be addressed. RS suffers from not measuring relative reliability of sources. It's promotion to policy would be a serious error. Jd2718 22:12, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
48. Neutral. Good and bad to both. But there's clearly no consensus to merge. --JayHenry 23:43, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
49. Merging WP:V and WP:OR makes a lot of sense to me. I oppose merging in WP:RS; policies should state the concept of relying on reliable sources, with the operational definition of RS left to guidelines. Also, as others have pointed out, WP:RS has as much to do with WP:NPOV as it does with the rest of WP:ATT. Kla'quot 02:35, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
50. Keep all, ATT as overarching summary guideline. Non-contradictory overlap is good, see Pengo above. steventity

Neutral/qualified/compromise/other 51

51. Oppose both the status quo and ATT proposal The V/NOR/RS troika is flawed for the reasons stated, but I don't like ATT because it doesn't do enough to keep out of date information out when new information contradicts it. BenB4 03:55, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
52. As per j e r s y k o, I, like Armedblowfish, support Misplaced Pages:Attribution being kept as a summary with a status like WP:5P, but without qualms about including WP:RS in the summary. WP:ATT should summarize WP:NOR, WP:V, and WP:RS, but it should not replace any or all of them. SmokeyJoe 08:16, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
53. I favor merging WP:V WP:OR and WP:RS for the time being. On the one hand I've not seen how it works. On the other Simple is better. Jplatt39 10:46, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
54. Neutral On this due to the fact that I'm new here and haven't really had time to use or refer to the policy. But, I would like to just comment. I can see the point for putting all the key points in one policy/page, though I feel that for detailed understanding, would it not be wise to keep the pages that exist? By this I mean have a special easy to read and follow page for a quick guide line of the other three, but for detailed scrutiny go to the relevant page?Artypants 12:39, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
55. Neutral, the idea of merging this stuff to reduce the number of policies was good, but given the large opposition, it should be dropped to save everybody from spending more and more time on a good, but doomed, idea. --Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 12:45, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
56. Neutral, I concur with Pengo, Steventity, and Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr). Overlap is not evil. Ezratrumpet 13:38, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
57. Neutral, I concur with previous writers that preferring attributability over truth is evil! The guidelines as presently set up militate against being able to take advantage of knowledge that is only within the memories of living people. This is how invaluable knowledge gets lost. Until this issue is resolved, I don't really care whether the guidelines are in 3 pages or one. Jpaulm 17:27, 2 April 2007 (UTC)