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This is a truly dreadful article, mostly obsessed with Catholic trivia about shamrocks, bells, and visions. Patrick was actually a most important person in establishing and propagating literacy - a fundamental tool for propagating religious philosophy. Catholicism, for example. By ignoring the literacy part of Patrick's existence, this article becomes an astonishing and execrable waste of time! Is nobody here aware of this other side of Patrick's life, not to mention being able to include some relevant history? ] (]) 01:32, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
This is a truly dreadful article, mostly obsessed with Catholic trivia about shamrocks, bells, and visions. Patrick was actually a most important person in establishing and propagating literacy - a fundamental tool for propagating religious philosophy. Catholicism, for example. By ignoring the literacy part of Patrick's existence, this article becomes an astonishing and execrable waste of time! Is nobody here aware of this other side of Patrick's life, not to mention being able to include some relevant history? ] (]) 01:32, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
:We don't really know any of this. You seem to want to replace one style of hagiographical myth-making with another. ] (]) 15:44, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
:We don't really know any of this. You seem to want to replace one style of hagiographical myth-making with another. ] (]) 15:44, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
::I'm again astonished that a would-be Patrick scholar would be so completely in the dark about Patrick's work as to suggest that it's simply more "myth-making"! Here is just '''one''' example of an academic analysis of one of Patrick's substantial, even monumental, works from 807 A.D.: https://www.confessio.ie/manuscripts/dublin#1
Revision as of 00:47, 18 March 2024
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Patrick and the Second Coming
Professor Elva Johnston writes, "The idea that Ireland is one of the last lands, at the very gates of the known and knowable world, underlies the writings of St Patrick in the fifth century. It has been pointed out that Patrick thought Ireland lay at the edge of the earth.49 He believed that his actions would usher in the Last Days; the Gospel had been preached throughout the world and the stage was set for the second coming of Christ."
I think this is a noteworthy part of Patrick's worldview and should be included in the article. Is this a common view in the literature? Even if it's contested it would still be useful to have the debate put in somewhere. ComradeKublai (talk) 03:18, 6 October 2022 (UTC) ComradeKublai (talk) 03:18, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
I do object to the inclusion of this though I definitely agree a debate on it first is called for. While sources definitively establish that Patrick believed Ireland lay at the end of the world, this wasn’t a position unique to him but was a widely accepted fact based off geography. Though it would certainly be noteworthy if Patrick also thought converting the gaels would bring about the end days, this is not substantiated by sources but purely the fringe position of an isolated few modern scholars. Whether it be true or not, I do not think we should include it under the present circumstances. OgamD218 (talk) 10:52, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
Hi User:OgamD218. I see that you or someone e removed it, no issues there as there hasn't yet been a consensus on the topic yet.
When you say that it's a fringe position do you mean that there are sources refuting it or just that it only appears a few places in the literature? I don't think Johnston herself is fringe in any way but certainly some of her theories/opinions could be.
When I said "debate" in the post above I was actually referring to putting sources supporting both sides in the article for balance. I also deliberately put it in the "Modern Theories" section because that looks like the place for novel ideas about Patrick that haven't yet gained universal support. ComradeKublai (talk) 03:29, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
References
Johnston, Elva (2013). Literacy and Identity in Early Medieval Ireland. The Boydell Press, Woodbridge. p. 35.
The text asserts that Patric is "venerated as a saint in the ... Lutheran church...". Lutheran churches do not recognize "saints" or venerate them, even though Lutheran church buildings may be named after disciples, evangelists or archangels venerated by Catholics as "saints". Jarmo K. (talk) 14:48, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Quality of Content
This is a truly dreadful article, mostly obsessed with Catholic trivia about shamrocks, bells, and visions. Patrick was actually a most important person in establishing and propagating literacy - a fundamental tool for propagating religious philosophy. Catholicism, for example. By ignoring the literacy part of Patrick's existence, this article becomes an astonishing and execrable waste of time! Is nobody here aware of this other side of Patrick's life, not to mention being able to include some relevant history? Henrilebec (talk) 01:32, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
We don't really know any of this. You seem to want to replace one style of hagiographical myth-making with another. Johnbod (talk) 15:44, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
I'm again astonished that a would-be Patrick scholar would be so completely in the dark about Patrick's work as to suggest that it's simply more "myth-making"! Here is just one example of an academic analysis of one of Patrick's substantial, even monumental, works from 807 A.D.: https://www.confessio.ie/manuscripts/dublin#1
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
