Talk:Battle of Badr: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 10:45, 28 June 2024 editVice regent (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users21,574 edits →This entire article was re-written with a POV ← Previous edit		Revision as of 11:37, 28 June 2024 edit undoVice regent (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users21,574 edits →Treatment of prisoners: new sectionTag: New topic Next edit →
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	Such a claim would need to be attributed as per ] or ]. ''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 10:25, 28 June 2024 (UTC)		Such a claim would need to be attributed as per ] or ]. ''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 10:25, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
	:{{u\|Kaalakaa}} also "{{tq\|Muhammad employed poets like ] to circulate his propaganda among the tribes.}}" Again a POV statement that needs to be attributed.''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 10:45, 28 June 2024 (UTC)		:{{u\|Kaalakaa}} also "{{tq\|Muhammad employed poets like ] to circulate his propaganda among the tribes.}}" Again a POV statement that needs to be attributed.''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 10:45, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

			== Treatment of prisoners ==

			The article used to have a section on treatment of prisoners that stated, with attribution that the prisoners were treated humanely. The original citation was to ], a 19th century source, but newer sources also affirm this:
			{{talkquote\|The rules regarding the treatment of POWs, however, stem from the incident of the Battle of Badr (624)...Muhammad ordered his companions to accommodate some of the enemy in the Mosque and the other within his companions’ houses, which were the safest places in Medina at the time.111 He then instructed them to treat the captives humanely, saying: ‘Observe good treatment towards the prisoners.’112 In conformity, the majority of Muslim jurists agree that POWs should not be subjected to torture, regardless of whether military information is needed from them.113 One of the POWs of Badr narrates how the Muslims treated him back then:

			I was with a number of the Ansar when they (Muslim fighters) brought me from Badr, and when they ate their morning and evening meals they gave me the bread and ate the dates themselves in accordance with the orders that
			the apostle had given about us. If anyone had a morsel of bread he gave it to me. I felt ashamed and returned it to one of them but he returned it to me untouched. Other prisoners from Badr affirmed that they had received the same treatment from their captors.

			...It was narrated by one of his companions that ‘when it was the day (of the battle) of Badr, prisoners of war were brought including Al-ʻAbbās, who was undressed. The Prophet looked for a shirt for him. \|source={{cite book\|title=Islamic Jihadism and the Laws of War\|author=Omar Mekky\|publisher=]\|year=2023\|page=99}}}}
			Other sources:
			{{talkquote\|The Prophet Muhammad is also reported to have ordered in respect of the prisoners of war taken by the Muslims at the Battle of Badr as follows: 'Take heed of the admonitions to treat prisoners fairly'.\|source={{cite book\|title=International Human Rights and Islamic Law\|author=Mashood A. Baderin\|publisher=]\|page=See google books\|year=2018}}}}
			{{talkquote\|Viewed in the light of narratives from all the battles during the Prophet's life-time, the overall treatment of prisoners of war at Badr more likely suggests the impressibility of poor treatment (including killing)\|source={{cite book\|title=The Beginnings of Islamic Law: Late Antique Islamicate Legal Traditions\|author= Lena Salaymeh\|publisher=]\|year=2016\|page=52}}}}


			Also removed was "{{tq\|those who were literate were released on the condition that they teach ten persons how to read and write and this teaching was to count as their ransom}}". Sourcing for that wasn't great, but better sources can easily be found.<ref>{{cite book\|author=Aaron J. Ghiloni\|title=Islam as Education:Pedagogies of Pilgrimage, Prophecy, and Jihad\|publisher=]\|page=124}}</ref><ref>{{cite book\|author=Joel Hayward\|title=The Warrior Prophet: Muhammad and War\|publisher=]\|page=147}}</ref> ''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 11:37, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Revision as of 11:37, 28 June 2024

Battle of Badr is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.

Battle of Badr has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

[REDACTED]

This article appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page as Today's featured article on March 7, 2006.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
January 25, 2006	Good article nominee	Listed
February 2, 2006	Peer review	Reviewed
February 13, 2006	Featured article candidate	Promoted
September 27, 2013	Featured article review	Demoted
September 6, 2020	Good article nominee	Listed
Facts from this article were featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on March 17, 2007, March 17, 2008, March 17, 2009, March 17, 2010, March 13, 2012, March 13, 2014, and March 13, 2016.
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To-do list for Battle of Badr: edit · history · watch · refresh · Updated 2018-03-13

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : Remove irrelevant information from background
Verify : Add reliable references for all of the information.

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(2024.03.11)

Untitled

Yo !!

I don't have the time right now to acquire the necessary knowledge about these 'old norse' formatting methods, rules or standards, so I am going to make this short and sweet:

There is a huge blunder in this article:

"In January 634, the same caravan made its way home" should be altered to "In January 624, the same caravan made its way home"

Just sayin'

My apologies for this appearing out of style.

Bye for now!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.88.236.56 (talk) 13:18, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Revisionist Style of Narrative

The entire article presents the subject in the modern revisionist style and does not include an significant historical sources from the Muslim body of scholarship, except a few mentions from Ibn Hisham, Bukhari here and there. I am suggesting an inclusion of mainstream Muslim scholarship as well to balance out the extensive revisionist point of views prevalent. Moughera (talk) 19:31, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

No, mainstream muslim sources should not be included.

This is an encyclopedia entry on a historical event, not an article regarding Islamic theology. 5.176.75.23 (talk) 06:41, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

@5.176.75.23 Ah yes, the historical standard comprises only of non muslim community, the historical facts conserved by muslims should not be entertained, dispite the fact the mentioned historical fact was about muslims. The fruitless efforts to provide misinformation to the general Internet users about islam is still not a new thing. 2401:BA80:A107:7815:17DC:157:D79:43B9 (talk) 01:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Sourcing touch up

The section short in in-line citation is a little bit of a jarring mismatch with the recent GA status - not sure if it was just taken as covered by the citation at the section end, but now that it's been challenged, this needs backfilling really. Iskandar323 (talk) 17:00, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 November 2023

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

hi I dont want to edit this I wanted someone else too beacuse I feel that the term (attacking beliefs) is too harsh for an important figure in a big religion, of you could change it to be more neutral I would be grateful Tuckee (talk) 15:13, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. I don't have access to the cited source to verify it myself, but your rationale is insufficient for a change and is essentially WP:JDL. Cannolis (talk) 18:07, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 March 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please edit arabic date of Battle of Badr from Ramadan 2nd to Ramadan 17th. 82.13.211.34 (talk) 04:18, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. PianoDan (talk) 19:31, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi,

The reliable source detailing the correct date is as follows;

https://www.islamchannel.tv/blog-posts/on-this-day-the-battle-of-badr

Thanks Rasojp (talk) 01:50, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

That's not a reliable source. Can you provide an academic paper in the field of history and not a religiously affiliated one? 5.176.75.23 (talk) 06:43, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 March 2024 (2)

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

RahilChoudhary004 (talk) 14:50, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Hey! I need to fix something in this article, the lines which I want to change are totally incorrect and showing hate towards Islam and it's followers, thus I request you to please let me fix something in the article and also have a checkpoint on the following paragraph in this article, your reply is mostly needed, thankyou. Yours Sincerely Rahil_Choudhary_04

Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. Jamedeus (talk) 16:17, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Could you please guide me, about how I could change the lines or tell someone to do that, it would be very helpful , Jamedus

Waiting for your reply. RahilChoudhary004 (talk) 16:54, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

The instructions are right there in the reply - just click the link on "autoconfirmed." PianoDan (talk) 19:32, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Kindly let me edit by myself or someone do this, Remove these false allegations which were putted upon The prophet, peace be upon him.

I sincerely request the editors to please remove these false allegations ASAP.

"The latter had originally set out to protect their homeward-bound trade caravan that Muhammad was about to raid. Prior to this, Muhammad had ordered his followers to carry out several raids on Quraysh caravans, which, despite initial failures, finally succeeded in gaining their first plunder at Nakhla, when the Quraysh were observing a holy month forbidding them from shedding blood."

Please edit this info as early as possible. This is misleading and totally false Pacificpeace (talk) 21:08, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

@Pacificpeace delete the page entirely 2401:BA80:A107:7815:17DC:157:D79:43B9 (talk) 02:03, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Remove image

Hi,

Can someone kindly remove the image which is so called depicted the Holy Prophet ﷺ as this is a cause of great disrespect.

Thanks. Rasojp (talk) 02:28, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

@Rasojp: No, sorry; this is an encyclopedia, not a religious text, and the historical image is relevant to the content. Please see WP:NOTCENSORED. General Ization 02:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Even if this is not considered a religious text, in Islam any image depicting the Prophet ﷺ is a cause if disrespect, therefore I would like to kindly implore you to replace this image with a map of the location of 'Badr' where this historical battle took place.

Many thanks. Rasojp (talk) 02:37, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Please review WP:NOTCENSORED, specifically:

Attempting to ensure that articles and images will be acceptable to all readers, or will adhere to general social or religious norms, is incompatible with the purposes of an encyclopedia.

...

Some articles may include images, text, or links which are relevant to the topic but that some people find objectionable. Discussion of potentially objectionable content should usually focus not on its potential offensiveness but on whether it is an appropriate image, text, or link. Beyond that, "being objectionable" is generally not sufficient grounds for the removal of content.

Jamedeus (talk) 02:07, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

@Jamedeus praise to the holy rules of wikipedia, the picture you have provided is the 'most appropriate' picture, despite the fact 2 billon people regard that picture as far from accurate and offensive. shame on you 2401:BA80:A107:7815:17DC:157:D79:43B9 (talk) 02:02, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Remove the page entirely

It hurts the religious sentiments of Muslim community and was made with intent to spread false information and many of claims made in it are false and it doesn’t allow to edit the page it is locked and other material on internet can be reported offensive but why is it not being removed when it is obvious that the writer has negative intent. Plz anyone who is tech savvy enough do something about it remove it . In this day and age people trying to be politically correct why is that Our PROPHET Who sacred for billions of people in world why is that an article that is False and disrespectful still available on this forum. Plz somebody remove it and put and Authenticate narrative in its place Plz. 2601:140:9201:7FC0:3CC1:457:4F90:2DF9 (talk) 08:13, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

This entire article was re-written with a POV

I notice that since this article gained GA status, it has been rewritten with a POV. Consider this line, which is written in wikivoice by Kaalakaa :

Muhammad used this triumph as a propaganda tool to assert the validity of his prophetic claims.

Such a claim would need to be attributed as per WP:IMPARTIAL or WP:SUBJECTIVE. VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 10:25, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Kaalakaa also added "Muhammad employed poets like Hassan ibn Thabit to circulate his propaganda among the tribes." Again a POV statement that needs to be attributed.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 10:45, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Treatment of prisoners

The article used to have a section on treatment of prisoners that stated, with attribution that the prisoners were treated humanely. The original citation was to William Muir, a 19th century source, but newer sources also affirm this:

The rules regarding the treatment of POWs, however, stem from the incident of the Battle of Badr (624)...Muhammad ordered his companions to accommodate some of the enemy in the Mosque and the other within his companions’ houses, which were the safest places in Medina at the time.111 He then instructed them to treat the captives humanely, saying: ‘Observe good treatment towards the prisoners.’112 In conformity, the majority of Muslim jurists agree that POWs should not be subjected to torture, regardless of whether military information is needed from them.113 One of the POWs of Badr narrates how the Muslims treated him back then:
I was with a number of the Ansar when they (Muslim fighters) brought me from Badr, and when they ate their morning and evening meals they gave me the bread and ate the dates themselves in accordance with the orders that the apostle had given about us. If anyone had a morsel of bread he gave it to me. I felt ashamed and returned it to one of them but he returned it to me untouched. Other prisoners from Badr affirmed that they had received the same treatment from their captors.
...It was narrated by one of his companions that ‘when it was the day (of the battle) of Badr, prisoners of war were brought including Al-ʻAbbās, who was undressed. The Prophet looked for a shirt for him.
— Omar Mekky (2023). Islamic Jihadism and the Laws of War. Oxford University Press. p. 99.

Other sources:

The Prophet Muhammad is also reported to have ordered in respect of the prisoners of war taken by the Muslims at the Battle of Badr as follows: 'Take heed of the admonitions to treat prisoners fairly'.
— Mashood A. Baderin (2018). International Human Rights and Islamic Law. Oxford University Press. p. See google books.

Viewed in the light of narratives from all the battles during the Prophet's life-time, the overall treatment of prisoners of war at Badr more likely suggests the impressibility of poor treatment (including killing)
— Lena Salaymeh (2016). The Beginnings of Islamic Law: Late Antique Islamicate Legal Traditions. Cambridge University Press. p. 52.

Also removed was "those who were literate were released on the condition that they teach ten persons how to read and write and this teaching was to count as their ransom". Sourcing for that wasn't great, but better sources can easily be found. VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 11:37, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Aaron J. Ghiloni. Islam as Education:Pedagogies of Pilgrimage, Prophecy, and Jihad. Lexington Books. p. 124.
Joel Hayward. The Warrior Prophet: Muhammad and War. Claritas Books. p. 147.

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