| Revision as of 13:30, 8 August 2024 editAbul7ik (talk | contribs)351 edits →Contesting that the article is poorly sourced: new sectionTag: New topic← Previous edit |
Revision as of 14:32, 8 August 2024 edit undoBobby Cohn (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Page movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers29,186 edits Content from this addition was copied from Draft talk:Hikmat Zaid. See it's page history for the conversational record.Next edit → |
| Line 1: |
Line 1: |
|
|
{{WikiProject banner shell |listas=Zaid, Hikmat |living=yes |1= |
|
{{WPBS|blp=yes|class=Start||1= |
|
|
|
{{WikiProject Arab world}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Politics |importance=Low}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Palestine}} |
|
{{WikiProject Biography|politician-work-group=yes|politician-priority=low|listas=Zaid, Hikmat}} |
|
{{WikiProject Biography|politician-work-group=yes|politician-priority=low|listas=Zaid, Hikmat}} |
|
}} |
|
}} |
|
|
{{Connected contributor |
|
|
| checked = |
|
|
| User1 = 85Hikmat | U1-EH = yes | U1-declared = 1239032723 | U1-otherlinks = | U1-banned = no |
|
|
}} |
|
|
|
|
|
== AfC review == |
|
|
=== BLP and personal information === |
|
|
Hi @], the source in the article suggests the birth year of the subject is 1949 but the draft claims 1945. Is this a mistake or is there something else we can cross-reference here? ] (]) 01:23, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
:It is 1945 and the ] also have it on 1945. It is probably a and I have contacted the source to fix it asap. ] (]) 01:36, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
::A typo* ] (]) 01:36, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:::We'll have to ensure it is fixed from the source first, as we cannot use the arabic page as we can't cite to Misplaced Pages, see ] and ]. ] (]) 01:57, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
::::This source is in english and has the correct birth year. https://www.all4palestine.org/ModelDetails.aspx?gid=14&mid=77959&lang=en ] (]) 03:11, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
As this article is a ], there will need to be sources of previously published material for personal information. Are there any sources that discuss the personal information, particularly the content presently about family in the "Personal life" section? ] (]) 01:44, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
I've been going through the sources that I can with Google translate, so forgive me if I've missed something. But are there citations that exist that back-up the subjects educational history presently in the "Early life and education" section? ] (]) 01:53, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
:The overall tone feels POV, and I'd questions some of the independence of the sources. The last paragraph would be a great campaign blurb, but the translation of the source suggests that much of that needs to be attributed to the Fatah Movement, of which Zaid is a non-trivial member. ''']''' (]) 02:10, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
::Good catch, and thanks for weighing in here. I had begun to clean the POV from the lead and was clearing it of the BLP issues before tackling the full length of the career section, also noting that it needed to correspond with the info box and citations as well. ] (]) 02:26, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:::Hello, |
|
|
:::Thank you guys for your reply. I would agree that Zaid is no longer a trivial member of Fatah these days as age caught him so it's much harder to find more modern sources and articles. Regardless however I was able to collect way more sources and add additional content to the draft, including one for the last paragraph (personal life). e.g. dailynorthwestern.com., www.all4palestine.org, www.jta.org, www.arabnews.com and www.aljazeera.net |
|
|
:::Let me know what you guys think. ] (]) 05:12, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
::Added citations to his early career, personal life, education and rest of the article emphasising his membership within the Fatah political party. ] (]) 14:05, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:::Some of the personal information that could not be verified in ''The Daily Northwestern'' source has been removed, as well as names of children, these are not typically included on Misplaced Pages articles. ] (]) 15:21, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
::::The children were in the article you removed in personal life. |
|
|
::::https://dailynorthwestern.com/2002/05/16/archive-manual/growing-up-in-the-plo/ |
|
|
::::"Through all of this turmoil, Hikmat managed to raise four children: a daughter, 30-year-old Hadil, and three sons, 26-year-old Zeid, Hisham, and 17-year-old Samer. Hisham remembers frequent moves during his youth with the PLO as the one constant." ] (]) 15:47, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:::::Yes, while the children's names were included in the source article, names of family members are often not included in Misplaced Pages articles if they themselves are not ], as is especially the case here as the citation given was not ], you can read more about the different types of ] but this one in particular was an ]. ] (]) 16:37, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
=== Style === |
|
|
A number of these blue links, especially for positions in the government, will need to be corrected as they are simply ]. For example, "5th Transport Minister" cannot pipe to ] as that is not what the reader will be expecting. That example is particularly bad as there is no mention of government policy or the ministerial cabinet on the target page. If you can think of more appropriate target, the proper solution would be to request a redirect at ] for either ] or a similar title and have it redirect to a broader government or policy page. ] (]) 16:33, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
:You may find more help for this particular topic at ]; given the complex nature of the Palestinian government, it is not something I am inherently knowledgeable in and cannot advise further. ] (]) 16:40, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
::Thanks for the advice I'll starting doing some changes right away. ] (]) 17:20, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
A number of your sources appear to be using the <code>|title=</code> parameter in the {{tl|cite web}} template to just verify or use a placeholder for the claim you've made in the text. This is a change made by yourself and ''very contradictory'' to our policy on ]. It is imperative that you cite the material '''as it was published'''. This includes the title of the article, the name of the website. Further, I would also advise you use the template {{tl|cite news}} from the reference toolbar (see ]) as well as name your references if you are trying to keep track of information and use them again. See this change ] as an example. This includes the author for the complete record. If you have any question, please ask, but understand we take this very seriously on Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 19:45, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
:Fixed all references with false titles, used ones from the actual article instead. Translated the ones in arabic by adding trans-title parameter aswell. Added date, publisher and author parameters if available. ] (]) 23:52, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
== Contesting that the article is poorly sourced == |
|
== Contesting that the article is poorly sourced == |
I've been going through the sources that I can with Google translate, so forgive me if I've missed something. But are there citations that exist that back-up the subjects educational history presently in the "Early life and education" section? Bobby Cohn (talk) 01:53, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
A number of these blue links, especially for positions in the government, will need to be corrected as they are simply WP:EASTEREGGS. For example, "5th Transport Minister" cannot pipe to Transport in the State of Palestine as that is not what the reader will be expecting. That example is particularly bad as there is no mention of government policy or the ministerial cabinet on the target page. If you can think of more appropriate target, the proper solution would be to request a redirect at WP:AFC/R for either Palestinian Ministry of Transportation or a similar title and have it redirect to a broader government or policy page. Bobby Cohn (talk) 16:33, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
I argue that the article is very well sourced using a dozen different sources. If we compare to other Palestinian politicians, this article is way well above average in terms of writing and referencing. Abul7ik (talk) 13:30, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
