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{{u|Will M Davis}} has repeatedly tried to add content to this article (as most recently) regarding research purporting that the practice of TM Meditation, and specifically the TM-Sidhi technique, can so reduce the stress level of the population at large as to have a measurable effect on drug use and crime rates. Such research has been published by ] and Kenneth Cavanaugh, both associated with the Maharishi University of Management. This research has been published in the and '''', both of which are listed as predatory journals (or predatory publishers) in the latest . The claims of these researchers have been dismissed as pseudoscience by several critics (, , ). I ask that, at the very least, the addition of this material be discussed here at the talk page before being allowed to remain in the article. ]<sup>]</sup><sub>]</sub> 19:40, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
{{u|Will M Davis}} has repeatedly tried to add content to this article (as most recently) regarding research purporting that the practice of TM Meditation, and specifically the TM-Sidhi technique, can so reduce the stress level of the population at large as to have a measurable effect on drug use and crime rates. Such research has been published by ] and Kenneth Cavanaugh, both associated with the Maharishi University of Management. This research has been published in the and '''', both of which are listed as predatory journals (or predatory publishers) in the latest . The claims of these researchers have been dismissed as pseudoscience by several critics (, , ). I ask that, at the very least, the addition of this material be discussed here at the talk page before being allowed to remain in the article. ]<sup>]</sup><sub>]</sub> 19:40, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:Thanks for your clarifications. Regarding my post “ The Journal of Conflict Resolution, 1988, published "International Peace Project in the Middle East: The Effects of the Maharishi Technology of the Unified Field." This study indicates a small group of Transcendental Meditation peace experts practicing Yogic Flying, reduced warfare with time-lags, in Lebanon. "Cross-correlations and transfer functions indicated that the group had a leading relationship to change on the quality-of-life indicators, supporting a causal interpretation." ”
:Back to our discussion please. The Journal of Conflict Resolution is not a predatory journal? Can we therefore please include my above post citing the statistical interpretation of causality by the Maharishi Effect on reducing warfare in Lebanon published in the Journal of Conflict Resolution? This study and other Maharishi Effect studies demonstrate the following: “Causality implies lagged correlation, i.e., the cause should precede the effect in time (McCleary & Hay Jr., 1980). One type of causal analysis, called cross-lagged panel correlation, compares the synchronous correlation (the correlation between two variables at the same time) with the lagged correlations (the correlation of a variable with another variable at earlier and later times). The hypothesis that A is causing B is supported if variations in A are followed in time by correlated changes in B, whereas changes in B are not followed in time by correlated changes in A, assuming that the synchronous correlations at both time periods are equal (Kenny, 1979).” ] (]) 00:48, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
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Portions of the article are remarkably WP:PROFRINGE with a touch of WP:PROMO. The underlying problem is non-independent sourcing (WP:SOURCES). This will take some time to fix. Some examples:
The lead brags about "340 peer-reviewed studies published", however the source is a book written by a proponent who in turn points us to a website run by a faculty member of the Maharishi University of Management. Even assuming the number is true, what goes unsaid is that most of those papers are connected to MUM. This is misleading. Using independent sources tends to avoid such problems. The second citation listed is Mosby's, which does not support the text.
The citation for "14 published studies" points us to a list of ... 14 published studies. What's not mentioned is that every one of those studies is affiliated with MUM. The reader is mislead. Besides, cobbling together papers like this and telling us how many you've cobbled is WP:OR or nearly so.
Using an uncritical (and probably unreliable) source, the article twice mentions the 1993 event in DC in nearly a positive light. In reality the event was a failure (crime went up), as reliable independent sources naturally mention. Robert Park called the group's final report a "clinic in data distortion" and an exercise in pseudoscience. That is the kind of mainstream reception that is required per WP:PSCI. Lacking that means failing NPOV.
This is still clearly a big problem. Some studies referenced in the article don't relate to the text even indirectly. One passage extolling the virtues of mass meditation on causing societal behavioural changes cites an article on EEG measurements that is totally unrelated 222.154.25.7 (talk) 10:55, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
This is because TM is a for-profit organization that is active in propagandizing the practice. Where's a section on criticism? This is practically a full page ad for TM.
I agree the article is too focused on saying nice things about TM, sourced by its practitioners and marketers. However, wikipedia style is to not have a Criticism section. It is better to have sections like 'Efficacy', 'Relationship to religions' etc and include relevant pro and con details in each (without engaging in false balance). I believe the whole article also overuses direct quotes and putting the name of the source in the text. This has the effect of turning the article into a he said-she said affair, rather than just stating what is Verifiable. Ashmoo (talk) 13:04, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
Yes, and yes. The Research section cites a mass of papers; primary research should not be used under WP:MEDRS (and indeed under plain old WP:RS for that matter). Many of the sources, including the better ones (meta-analysis, systematic review, which are ALL we should be citing here, and ideally the systematic reviews should be the only sources used) are apparently about meditation-in-general, presumably including some quantity of TM-ers among the meditators; if so, they are barely relevant here at all, as they support the claim "meditation-in-general has health benefits A, B, and C" but they do nothing to support the supposed claim "TM has benefits over and above meditation-in-general", and it may be there is little or no evidence that is true (there's no prima facie reason to suppose it's any better than, say, Vipassana). The section needs to be reworked using the best sources only, and the claims need to be properly distinguished without puffery. Mind you, that goes for the whole article. Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:09, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
A Hot Mess
Hello, all. I’m reasonably certain the edits I’m applying are going to irritate some folks. I’m not interested in ruffling feathers, but I believe the whole article needs help to make it adhere to encyclopedic guidelines. Anyone wishing to challenge any of my changes is of course free to do so, but please do it in the spirit of making the article better and not because you don’t agree with WP guidelines. TX! Sugarbat (talk) 18:16, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
Meditation encourages to be alarmed?
"Unlike some other approaches to meditation, TM instruction encourages students not to be alarmed by random thoughts which may arise, but to easily return to…" I don't know of any kind of meditation which teaches to be alarmed by random thoughts. Which approach to meditation would that be? One to be strongly discouraged to practice. --JonValkenberg (talk) 12:14, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
I agree with your observation — although one other possible interpretation could be that other techniques don't specifically mention that one should not be alarmed by thoughts (which of course one shouldn't). But it was unclearly written, prone to misunderstanding, and there were no specific examples, so I removed that part of the statement. Jhertel (talk) 16:43, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
Disputed content
Will M Davis has repeatedly tried to add content to this article (as here most recently) regarding research purporting that the practice of TM Meditation, and specifically the TM-Sidhi technique, can so reduce the stress level of the population at large as to have a measurable effect on drug use and crime rates. Such research has been published by David Orme-Johnson and Kenneth Cavanaugh, both associated with the Maharishi University of Management. This research has been published in the World Journal of Social Science and Medicina, both of which are listed as predatory journals (or predatory publishers) in the latest Predatory Journals List. The claims of these researchers have been dismissed as pseudoscience by several critics (James Randi, the Neurologica blog, Helland). I ask that, at the very least, the addition of this material be discussed here at the talk page before being allowed to remain in the article. WikiDan61ReadMe!!19:40, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for your clarifications. Regarding my post “ The Journal of Conflict Resolution, 1988, published "International Peace Project in the Middle East: The Effects of the Maharishi Technology of the Unified Field." This study indicates a small group of Transcendental Meditation peace experts practicing Yogic Flying, reduced warfare with time-lags, in Lebanon. "Cross-correlations and transfer functions indicated that the group had a leading relationship to change on the quality-of-life indicators, supporting a causal interpretation." ”
Back to our discussion please. The Journal of Conflict Resolution is not a predatory journal? Can we therefore please include my above post citing the statistical interpretation of causality by the Maharishi Effect on reducing warfare in Lebanon published in the Journal of Conflict Resolution? This study and other Maharishi Effect studies demonstrate the following: “Causality implies lagged correlation, i.e., the cause should precede the effect in time (McCleary & Hay Jr., 1980). One type of causal analysis, called cross-lagged panel correlation, compares the synchronous correlation (the correlation between two variables at the same time) with the lagged correlations (the correlation of a variable with another variable at earlier and later times). The hypothesis that A is causing B is supported if variations in A are followed in time by correlated changes in B, whereas changes in B are not followed in time by correlated changes in A, assuming that the synchronous correlations at both time periods are equal (Kenny, 1979).” 2600:1013:B010:5C0D:6038:4819:2700:C34C (talk) 00:48, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
