Misplaced Pages

Latest revision as of 22:00, 18 August 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Kingdom of Croatia (925–1102) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3Auto-archiving period: 2 months

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

This  level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

European history This article is within the scope of WikiProject European history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the history of Europe on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.European historyWikipedia:WikiProject European historyTemplate:WikiProject European historyEuropean history ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale. Former countries This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please join the project.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesformer country Croatia High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Croatia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Croatia on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CroatiaWikipedia:WikiProject CroatiaTemplate:WikiProject CroatiaCroatia High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Bosnia and Herzegovina High‑importance Kingdom of Croatia (925–1102) is part of the WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Bosnia and Herzegovina on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.Bosnia and HerzegovinaWikipedia:WikiProject Bosnia and HerzegovinaTemplate:WikiProject Bosnia and HerzegovinaBosnia and Herzegovina High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Hungary Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hungary, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Hungary on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HungaryWikipedia:WikiProject HungaryTemplate:WikiProject HungaryHungary Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Middle Ages High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Middle Ages on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Kingdom of Croatia.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:21, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Map

The map in the info box. Where are the sources that confirm the large area? It conflicts with Serbian Rasca that i erlaps the same area at the same time. I am not that familiar with these maps but I don’t recall the kingdom of Croatia reaching that far East or South. OyMosby (talk) 23:46, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

I agree with the remark made by the @OyMosby. Modern historians such as Neven Budak disagree with the notion that Croatia in this period reached Drava river. Among the maps made by Luigimini, there is one showing Croatia during reign of king Stjepan Držislav. Unfortunately even that map isn't done right, but among the sources quoted for making it, there is one which shows Croatia right. It is this one:

https://imgur.com/F8ferYn

Territory of Croatia is marked as Hrvatska and it roughly follows medieval Croatian counties. A map similar to that is also displayed in Museum of Croatian Archaeological Monuments in Split. I will therefore remove all dubious maps from this article, until we reach a consensus on what to do. Franjo Tahy (talk) 11:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

I am making a bold revert because there do exist many reliable historiographical sources which show such boundaries. The issue at hand is citing reliable sources first and foremost. Replacement wasn't appropriate either and the counties map isn't done right as well. The issue is far more complex because there's no accurate map neither exist a consensus in the historiography. Modern viewpoints should be taken with caution because are part of a broader trend, and do not necessarily represent traditional or more accurate viewpoint.--Miki Filigranski (talk) 20:22, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

For example, Adriatic 1089.svg (Dugački, Vlatka; Regan, Krešimir: Hrvatski povijesni atlas (Historical atlas of Croatia). Zagreb: Miroslav Krleža Institute of Lexicography, 2018. ISBN 9789532680454, pp. 120-121).--Miki Filigranski (talk) 20:28, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

I know that radio shows can't really be quoted on Misplaced Pages, but I will write it here anyway for the sake of the discussion because I consider Neven Budak authority on the matter. Anyway, in radio show Povijest četvrtkom, episode about medieval Slavonia, he said that it could be considered that: "the reign of Croatian kings reached as far as Sisak" in the time of Councils of Split. Which is also the period of king Tomislav. Other than that, he said there are very few sources about lands that would became Slavonia.

From other that I know, that lands between Sava and Drava river modern historiography considers some kind of wide borderland area between Croatia and Hungary. Even Hrvatska enciklopedija (article about Gvozd mountain) says that Gvozd mountain was considered a border between medieval Croatia and Slavonia. In my opinion, the most sense makes to consider the territory of medieval Croatian counties recorded by Constantine Porphyrogenitus as the actual territory of medieval Croatia. Franjo Tahy (talk) 22:00, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages controversial topics
• C-Class level-5 vital articles
• Misplaced Pages level-5 vital articles in History
• C-Class vital articles in History
• C-Class European history articles
• Unknown-importance European history articles
• All WikiProject European history pages
• C-Class former country articles
• WikiProject Former countries articles
• C-Class Croatia articles
• High-importance Croatia articles
• All WikiProject Croatia pages
• C-Class Bosnia and Herzegovina articles
• High-importance Bosnia and Herzegovina articles
• All WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina pages
• C-Class Hungary articles
• Mid-importance Hungary articles
• All WikiProject Hungary pages
• C-Class Middle Ages articles
• High-importance Middle Ages articles
• C-Class history articles
• All WikiProject Middle Ages pages