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Revision as of 20:37, 20 April 2007

badlydrawnjeff

Voice your opinion (40/18/2) Scheduled to end 14:23, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

badlydrawnjeff (talk · contribs) - This is a self nomination, my first one can be viewed at Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/Badlydrawnjeff, which was a borderline failure approximately 9 months ago. badlydrawnjeff talk 14:57, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here: Accept as self-nom. --badlydrawnjeff talk 14:53, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

An optional statement goes here, but this isn't optional, because this is unorthodox and perhaps another test case for possible RfA reform. As always, the expectation is to view this on its full merits.

We have backlog problems, especially at CAT:SPEEDY and CAT:PROD, which are way backed up, sometimes to three or more days. Uncontroversial (and complex) merges take a long time to process through, which can be very frustrating. I want to help with backlogs, but I know full well many of you do not trust me at this point to use the tools properly, due to either past associations or due to the fact that I don't hold back in policy discussions. I am inclusionist by nature, and certainly the most vocal about it, and I care too much about consensus to easily give up on a discussion. I'm also very fond of due process, and believe that there's a lot of issues that should be solved by proper discussion. These issues frustrate a lot of people, and perhaps rightfully so - I don't edit with adminship in mind, and I'm here to build the best encyclopedia possible. That's all I'm concerned with at this point, after editing for two plus years.

So this is a request for limited adminship.

I will have access to all the tools. However, the only tools I will be using are the following:

• Deletion: To kill the backlogs in speedy and prod, and to make way for those somewhat annoying moves that require it.
• Page moves: Those that require history merges and stuff, hand-in-hand with above.
• Protection: Page protection issues that I am not involved with.
• Undeletion: For challenged prods. For undeletions of uncontroversial speedy deletions with discussion with the other deleting administrators - if it becomes controversial, I reverse myself, it's not worth warring over and that's a job for deletion review.
• History undeletions upon request for DRV discussions.

That's it. I don't have a desire or want of the tools for anything else, and will not use them. I will not be closing AfDs or DRVs. I will not be making blocks at 3RR, or for anything else. Just those four uses.

• But Jeff, I don't trust you in the least? Why should I think you won't start going nuts?

Answer? You don't. And, frankly, who does? Who thought User:Robdurbar would go on his spree this week? So it's a simple fix on this:

• I will add myself to Category:Administrators open to recall immediately following promotion if it occurs.
  • If I use the tools in a way that I haven't outlined above, if one person in good standing (been around for a while, 500 edits, whatever, I'm flexible) decides it's an issue, I resign. Immediately. No questions asked.
  • If I use the tools outlined above improperly, if one person in good standing notes as much and I refuse to reverse my decision, I will resign immediately, or any other user (perhaps a pre-set clerk) can put in the request for me. This will assure everyone that I'm entirely accountable, and have no interest in going rogue.
  • I'll still be open to recall for any other reason not noted here, but the suffrage requirements and co-signers will be different (perhaps 6 editors with suffrage, etc).

• But Jeff, what if you decide you want to close AfDs or expand your power?

Answer? I come back to RfA. I'll run through the whole process again to gain the use of the tools I'm voluntarily relinquishing here, and, more importantly, make sure I have the trust of the community to get those tools and use them in that way.

So yes, this is unorthodox. I can't stop people from opposing me for the same reasons they may have otherwise, I can't stop people from opposing because they don't like the idea of limited adminship. But you know me - you know the quality of my work, you know that I'm trustworthy and dedicated, and, most of all, you know I'm consistent: I don't mess around, and I'm not going to say one thing and do another. It's not my nature.

I'm hoping you guys can approve this. I understand if you can't, but I think it's worth a shot for the sake of the project. I'm open to answering all and any questions you have, so please don't hesitate to ask. --badlydrawnjeff talk 14:53, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Questions for the candidate

Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Misplaced Pages as an administrator. You may wish to answer a few optional questions to provide guidance for participants:

1. What admin work do you intend to take part in?

A: As detailed above - no more, no less. --badlydrawnjeff talk 14:53, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

2. What are your best contributions to Misplaced Pages, and why?

A: I've created between 200-300 articles. Of these, 3 are good articles, and two are featured - Kroger Babb and The Turk. I had a lot of help on both, of course, but I'm proud of the featured work the most - The Turk has been complimented by many as one of our better and more interesting FAs, and Kroger Babb is the most comprehensive resource on the man on the internet, and perhaps the world (until I finish my book, at least).

3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or have other users caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?

A: More than I could possibly note here. Sometimes I handle it poorly (Hi, Sam Blanning!), sometimes I handle it well (Hi, JzG!). I don't forsee my conflicts in the past interfering with my limited use of the tools, and if they did, I would expect that I would be removed from the position of power quickly.

Optional questions

4. If you are promoted, what do you expect to find when looking through CAT:CSD? Are you familiar with the normal balance of CAT:CSD between speedy reasons? (What I'm getting at: are you aware of the relative speeds with which different speedy criteria leave CAT:CSD, and which ones tend to stay behind and add to the backlog?) What proportion of articles that stay in CAT:CSD for, say, 10 minutes or so should actually be deleted, in your opinion? --ais523 15:03, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

A: I've been spending a great deal of time at CSD over the last month, so I do have more experience there than I let on at times. I know that I'll need to get more experience in images if I want to help with that backlog, but I also know that there seems to be a lot of hesitation on ones that may not fit. I don't especially care about getting flack in either direction, and I've already shown in a few recent ones I've noted that I'm not afraid to bump to AfD or prod on ones that don't fit a criteria or are deleted.
Really, I think that the amount of time an article spends on CSD isn't really relevant if the idea is to clear them all out, so I forsee myself just opening the category and getting to work. If it's really tight, I'll get a second opinion or just bump it to another forum - there's no harm in that.

5. Under what circumstances should one ignore a rule? --bainer (talk) 15:26, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

A. IAR doesn't exist in my wiki-verse. I see no instances where I'd need to worry about it in my limited usage.

6. Congratulations on your marriage near the beginning this month. Do you think that your engagement and marriage has changed your outlook on things, such as how you now approach things on Misplaced Pages compared to before your engagement and marriage? -- Jreferee 18:24, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

1. A. Thanks! Honestly, not really. I started editing here before I got engaged, and living with someone who understands that Misplaced Pages is a fun hobby for me makes time management easier and makes it less of an addiction and more of a hobby. If anything, a lot of my experiences here have changed how I would normally approach real life situations with her and other people - the assumption of good faith, etc. So I know that doesn't answer your question the way you may have been expecting, but a good question nonetheless. --badlydrawnjeff talk 18:42, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

General comments

• See badlydrawnjeff's edit summary usage with mathbot's tool. For the edit count, see the talk page.

Please keep criticism constructive and polite. If you are unfamiliar with the nominee, please thoroughly review Special:Contributions/badlydrawnjeff before commenting.

Discussion

Support

1. Support - a fine user. I have every confidence he will make a fine admin, I trust him and trust he would not abuse admin tools. Matthew 15:00, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
2. I do not always agree with Jeff, but I am convinced that he can be trusted with the admin tools. Kusma (talk) 15:01, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
3. Support For what he intends to do - yes, definitely, but be sure to keep your promise though :) Majorly (hot!) 15:15, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
4. Support ! ! --- RockMFR 15:19, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

   Also, I don't care how unenforceable this is. badlydrawnjeff can be trusted, and if he were to go back on his word and close an afd as his first action, I wouldn't care in the least. Though, I think others might want to clarify if they would support such actions. --- RockMFR 15:26, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

   I don't know how unenforceable it is, either. Hell, Friday was someone who is a person I probably would ask to make it enforceable - someone I rarely agree with but trust to keep me in check. It's up to individual people as to whether they trust me to keep my word regardless of other issues - if I haven't demonstrated that I'm honest, even if I'm frustrating, that's a problem on my end. --badlydrawnjeff talk 15:44, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

5. Support Per Majorly. Why not. I wonder what Elara would say. I don't agree with your interpretation of CAT:AOR, but oh well. – Riana 15:21, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
6. Support. I often find myself disagreeing with his interpretations and opinions on AfD and DRV discussions but I've found them to be well articulated and generally based on policy - even when I interpret the policy in another way. Excellent contributor. No reason to suspect he'd misue the tools. Arkyan • 15:25, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
7. Support- based on my own limited experience with him, other's reccomendations above, and a look through his contributions. Love the user name, as an added bonus. Dåvid Fuchs 15:28, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
8. Weakish carefulish support I have full confidence that Jeff would never try to harm the project. I also am very much inclined to believe that he'll abide by his word. Some might think that as a deletionist-leaning editor, I should perhaps be not so thrilled at the thought of giving admin tools to the self-proclaimed vile dark lord of inclusionism (hope I'm getting this right). However, I trust Jeff despite our differences and I do find him to be responsible if sometimes too insistent. This tendency to be too argumentative is really what prevents me from giving him a fuller support. Pascal.Tesson 15:35, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
9. Strong Support Jeff sometimes strongly disagrees with me (I think he called my DRV close "moronic" or something last week at DRV talk -- in good humor, of course), but I have absolutely no doubt of his dedication to the project, his skill, and his sense of honor. He's been here long enough to know when his own interpretation of policy is outside of mainstream -- his self-limiting use of the tools will work because he's smart enough to make it work. Frankly, he deserved adminship last time. Even within his self-limits, Jeff's incredible energy will help us clear backlogs immediately. He is an important asset to Misplaced Pages, and adminship will allow him to contribute usefully in ways where help is sorely needed. Xoloz 15:38, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
10. Support. I know that some have had problems, but I've never had a real problem. He says he won't use some of the tools, but we can trust him with the other ones.--Wizardman 15:46, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
11. Support. Will do more good than harm. Haukur 16:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
12. Strong support - I rather often vehemently disagree with Jeff on deletion issues, but in all respects he's an honorable editor who makes excellent contributions, and there's no reason to suspect he would ever abuse or misuse the mop and bucket. FCYTravis 16:20, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
13. Support Basically, if User:Robdurbar thought it was worth his trouble to block you, you're a de facto admin already. You had some good company up there. :) YechielMan 16:32, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

    Holy crap, I didn't even catch that I was on his hitlist. Wow, talk about the odd man out on that list. --badlydrawnjeff talk 16:34, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

    You can thank User:Riana for unblocking you. After actually reading the nomination statement, my own opinion is that conditional adminship is not a good general policy, but for an editor who has been around as long as you have, and contributed so much, I'm willing to allow it. (Just to be clear: I would rather give you adminship unconditionally.) YechielMan 16:39, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

    He blocked you before he blocked Jimbo. That has to mean something ... -- Black Falcon 19:57, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

14. Support. I don't think there's any question that Jeff is dedicated to the project and has Misplaced Pages's best interests in mind. He's quite capable of respecting the difference between a) disagreeing with policy or consensus (and occasionally acting against it), and b) acting against policy or consensus using the admin tools.--ragesoss 16:46, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
15. Hmmm...tricky, but I'm going to have to vote Support. Although I strongly disagree with some of Jeff's policy positions, I trust him to abide by those policies which have been agreed by the community. I also agree with his stance on avoiding IAR, and respecting the wishes of the community as a whole. I would prefer if Jeff agreed to avoid using the admin tools in relation to policy pages, as he has strong opinions there, but there's no real reason to deny him "the mop". Overall I trust him. Walton 16:51, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

    Well, I am involved with most of them anyway... --badlydrawnjeff talk 16:54, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

16. Support surprisingly enough. Despite strong policy differences and doubts about the utility of limited adminship, I trust Jeff not to abuse the tools and to be a great help in dealing with the backlogs he mentions. Also I must disagree with on of the opposers below. Jeff is argumentative, sometimes to the point of pig-headedness, but, in my experience, he is rarely rude and almost never intentionally so. Eluchil404 17:01, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
17. Support per nomination and statement. —  $PЯINGrαgђ  17:06, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
18. Support. Admittedly strong views, but that's no reason to deny him the tools if he can be trusted and will make good use of them. I thoroughly believe he can. the wub "?!" 17:07, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
19. Support. I don't like overdose of inclusionism, but Jeff is an experienced user who will be helpful, and can be trusted. utcursch | talk 17:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
20. Gah I vehmently disagree with Jeff's approach to deletion issues and he does get too personally involved in discussions but then I look at his contributions and his committment to the project and I ask myself, "Do I trust Jeff to do no evil and to be honest about his mistakes". Generally I do although it must be hard for him being right all the time ;-). Based on the limited intentions indicated, I can't see any real risk and Jeff certainly will never intentionally harm the project. Spartaz 17:13, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

    You win comment of the day. --badlydrawnjeff talk 17:15, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

21. Support I have confidence in Jeff's ability to address the issues he mentions within the bounds of policy, and he's clearly an extremely experienced editor. JavaTenor 17:19, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
22. Support per long history of article writing and helping the bewildered. Addhoc 17:30, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
23. Unlikely to delete the main page. —Cryptic 17:47, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

    Talk about a short yardstick, what? :) – Riana 17:57, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

    Not at all, though perhaps glib; "delete the main page" is really standing in for some other stuff we don't talk about that causes actual harm, instead of just being an annoyance that goes away forever after fifteen minutes. Jeff's longterm dedication to the project shows, much more clearly than the usual RFA candidate who fights vandalism for several months but otherwise keeps his head down and his mouth shut, that he won't do these things. (Nothing's certain, of course; he could be a sock of some wikipariah or other. (So could anyone else.)) I'm especially impressed that Jeff's already thought about what he'll do with his bit; candidates who claim - usually by omission, but a claim nonetheless - that they'll be involved with all aspects of adminship are either very badly mistaken or lying through their teeth, but as demonstrated below, that's what RFA voters want to hear. —Cryptic 18:39, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

24. Support, surprisingly. As easy as it would be for me to get in a huff and say "oppose zomg i don't like you", I'm not going to. You've caused me a lot of frustration at WT:IAR with circular arguments and whatnot, and you have a fundamental total misunderstanding about the way that Misplaced Pages works (or at least the way it's supposed to work). You'll likely tie yourself down unnecessarily by refusal to accept WP:IAR as a policy to be followed, and to be honest. I think the idea of one person asking you to resign is silly, since someone that's opposed you in this RfA could technically ask you to resign should it pass, and I find the idea of limited adminship a bit silly. So basically, I'm not amazingly fond of you. However, despite all that, I don't think you'll misuse the tools. --Deskana (fry that thing!) 17:49, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
25. Support - Trusted user who understands policy. -- Jreferee 17:51, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
26. Support Eh, not having IAR in one's wikiverse seems a bit weird to me, (Surely there's got to be some rules concerning what you're planning to do as an admin?) but i've seen several instances where speedy delete backlogs leave some nasty stuff in existance for far too long, and besides, what's the worst that could happen? Homestarmy 17:59, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
27. Will not misuse the tools or go rouge: his nomination essentially covers what I would like Jeff to limit himself to as an admin for me to trust him completely. Jeff's commitment to the project and the quality of his edits here demands great respect even from a chap of deletionist leanings like me. He's been around here long enough to probably cite policy chapter and verse. If Jeff wants to limit his own adminship, why not? He's not proposing it for the everyone else. So, he can be annoying. So can most people. Not the end of the world. I'm not seeing a convincing reason as to why not, so I'm going with not-a-big-deal. Moreschi 18:06, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
28. Support - although I am anything but an inclusionist, and definitely disagree with BDJ on all manner of subjects; I truly believe he always acts with the best interests of the project at heart... and as such support his nom :) Glen 18:16, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
29. Support interested in clearing backlogs. --User 56 18:30, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
30. Badlydrawnsupport since no one's used that term on this RfA yet. I don't think Jeff'll go nuts with the tools. I think that he should use any and all of the tools that he needs, not just those outlined at the beginning of this RfA, but let's be happy that he'll do that much. On the chance that he misuses the tools, it will only take one editor in good standing to can him. The great possibility of another good admin outweighs the slim possibility that if granted sysop rights, he will harm the encyclopedia. Thank you, and good day. WODUP 18:32, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
31. Support Inclusionist that will leave main page in peace. Agathoclea 18:34, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
32. Support. I often find myself on the opposite side of an argument from Jeff, but I am always struck by his intelligence and communication skills. Jeff certainly has a problem with being stubborn, but he would be joining into good company with the hundreds of admins (including myself, admittedly) who also suffer from that particular disposition. Like many of the opposers, I don't buy into the idea of limited adminship, either, but I find that Jeff is strong-willed rather than reckless. I think that he has the scruples to not abuse the position. A Train 18:40, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
33. I have no fear that Jeff will actually abuse the tools. I think his limited adminship idea is a nice gesture that will tie his hands too far, but whatever. More concerning is the "one user in good standing can force me to resign". So one of the 16 users below can force this RFA to be overturned? I urge you to reconsider that stance, but nevertheless you have my support, just like last time. -- nae'blis 19:21, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

    Well, my expectation is that they'll never have a reason to do so. If I abuse my position, it really shouldn't matter if they oppose me or not. --badlydrawnjeff talk 19:25, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

34. In all my interacts with him he's seemed honest and trustworthy. --W.marsh 19:22, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
35. Support per nom. If he sticks to what he says, his administrative work will be less controversial than anything else he has done. -MrFizyx 19:26, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
36. Support - I think this user is well experienced and I think he made a good and honest statement overall. I also do not have any significant concern he will abuse the admin abilities. Camaron1 | Chris 19:26, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
37. Support. Contrib history and what I witnessed of his behaviour speak in strong favour of this candidate. —AldeBaer 19:42, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
38. Support Although admin tools can't really be handed out on a piecemeal basis, so the "limited use" promise is simply on the honor system, I think the candidate knows that it's unlikely, at least for a time, that an Afd closures on his part would ever be regarded as impartial. That said, I don't think Rfa's need to be about the positions a nom holds -- this editor clearly cares passionately about the encyclopedia and is, essentially, a trusted user. I like his honest self-assessment. And since it's unclear how this one will go, I'd suggest he take the criticisms offered very seriously if he succeeds. Dina 19:52, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
39. Support As a lot of people know, Jeff and I do disagree a lot. However, I've found in these disagreements that he is generally able to provide a rationale for his thoughts and actions, and "I disagree with his philosophy" is not a good oppose reason. I believe that he will voluntarily stick to the areas he's said he would (and even if not so, I wouldn't really be concerned), and that he will follow the rules even if he personally disagrees with them. Seraphimblade 19:58, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
40. Support. I'm really astonished to see statements that Jeff is confrontational or "fundamentally untrustworthy". In my interactions with him (much of it at WT:N), we've disagreed more than once, but I don't ever recall him being confrontational, aggressive, or uncivil. In fact, a recent incident comes to mind where he was repeatedly provoked (almost baited), yet his reaction was exceptional. I'm also surprised at the opposition to the idea of "limited adminship". What's the difference between an admin who only does a certain task but doesn't state it in advance and one that does? -- Black Falcon 20:31, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose Self limiting your use of tools and putting yourself in the recall cat do not carry much water with me, I think both ideas limit the usefulness of an admin. Your answers to the questions were very limited an have not convinced me that you are ready to be an admin. You seem to be saying that being open to recall is a "simple fix" for lack of community trust, I don't think it even comes close. Ryan below me also raises some very disturbing issues, the ability to edit protected pages is of the larger concern to me considering the recent edit war that was halted by protection. _InBC 15:10, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
2. Oppose I'm sorry Jeff, but I really can't support a candidate who wants the tools for protections when you were involved in an edit war at WP:MUSIC last week regarding the {{pnc}} template. You first began on the 7th of April, and continued for 2 days; . I then protected the page, the minute the protection wore off, you immediately started edit warring again, , leading me to having to immediately re-protect the page. I'm sorry, but I can't trust someone who has edit warred so serverely on official guidlines in the recent past to have access to admin tools, with the ability to protect pages how he wants them, or edit whilst protected. Looking at your block log, it shows that this seams to have been a problem over a larger period of time. Ryan Postlethwaite 15:14, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

   To explain the block log, I've had a total of two actual blocks - one for "disruption on DRV" for reopening a discussion closed out of process, and one for the ensuing argument. Not my best moment, also something like 6 months ago. I can't argue with the rest, and won't. --badlydrawnjeff talk 15:16, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

3. Oppose- the limited adminship idea is interesting, but unenforceable. Given his apparent "more articles are always better" belief, I can't trust that he'd use undeletion only when appropriate. His contributions to policy discussion border on disruptive at times, and his take on what policy means gives me no confidence he would use good judgment. I hadn't been aware of the edit warring but this concerns me as well. Friday (talk) 15:21, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
4. Rude, Rude, Rude. Haughty. Confrontational. And mind you, I like the guy. But I will rue the day he is made a sysop. -- Y not? 16:23, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
5. Oppose. Limited adminship has been proposed in various forms many times, and it is has generally been agreed that it's a non-starter, and particularly so in this case since it's proposed as voluntarily limited: there's simply no way to anticipate the situations that arise as an admin, so it's effectively impossible for Jeff to do what he promises above. Given that, we have to consider this a request for full adminship, and I cannot support that after Jeff's demonstration of his lack of understanding of the administrator role at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Samuel Blanning. Chick Bowen 16:36, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

   I still don't regret the RfC, for the record - I think it was a poor move, and I disagree with this person's opinion that I misunderstand the administrator role based on this issue. If someone believes that they can accurately judge consensus in 11 hours, there's a problem, plain and simple. --badlydrawnjeff talk 16:42, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

6. Oppose. I'm not keen on the limited adminship, or on a self-described "notorious inclusionist" being involved as an admin in deletion issues. Jeff also seems to get very aggressive very quickly when people disagree with him. SlimVirgin 16:38, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
7. Oppose. I think badlydrawnjeff does great work and fills an important role in the community, and I believe him that he won't attempt to use the tools in a roguish fashion. Even in the absence of roguish intent, though, I believe that the widespread knowledge of his passionate (and outside-the-meanstream) stances on policy would cast a consistent shadow over the decisions he would make with the tools. Thus, regrettably, I don't see promoting jeff as a likely net gain for the project. Dekimasuよ! 16:42, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

   If someone judges actions based on a person's reputation, rather than the action's merit, then that's their problem. I fail to see how this is a reason to deny Jeff adminship. the wub "?!" 17:14, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

8. I oppose this candidate for many reasons, but the one I wish to mention specifically here is that in his comments above he suggests that he believes that closing deletion discussions is an admin-only task. It is not, and I will not support the promotion of any candidate who believes or suggests that it is. Kelly Martin (talk) 16:47, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

   Then you misunderstand me, Kelly, not that I can do anything right now anyway if I was to hop over to AfD and close something as delete. People are naturally afraid that someone who they believe is "out of the mainstream" on policy and ultra-inclusionist would abuse their abilities if given the power and cache that adminship provides - I'm merely stating I'm not interested in that. I figure you have roughly 10 other reasons to oppose me, but if other people feel the same way, I figure a clarification is in order. --badlydrawnjeff talk 16:53, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

9. Strongest Oppose Possible Fundamentally untrustworthy. As an ex-adminstrator of Encyclopedia Dramatica, his access to deleted revisions is a fundamental danger. As a consumate edit warrior with goals of including weakly-primary-sourced damaging personal information about non-notable living people/wikipedia editors, totally irrelevent and unused slang terms and a few good articles, his goals are not in line with what this project was designed to be. Unstable - has announced his departure numerous times. Hipocrite - «Talk» 17:17, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

   One thing I don't plan on letting sit is commentary like this. One, my association with Encyclopedia Dramatica effectively ended 18 months ago, and I haven't been involved in any form in close to a year, nor do they want me back. Hipocrite is, to my knowledge, one of the few remaining people who still think I have or desire ties to a website that wants nothing to do with me. I have worked hard to put that unfortunate part of my past behind me, and I think it's clear to anyone who's able to examine my activity what project I'm allied to. Also, the idea that I have "goals of including weakly-primary-sourced damaging personal information" for anyone is blatantly false, and I reject it outright. Hipocrite and I had a dispute last summer regarding a blogger who's name ended up in a magazine. He didn't like that I a) considered the blogger notable, and b) was willing to use third party material to justify it. The eventual result was that the page was simply redirected, and I haven't bothered to pursue it since. --badlydrawnjeff talk 17:23, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

10. Oppose Too confrontational; does not show comprehensive understanding of key policies. Edit warrior. I do not trust this user to use the tools wisely. KillerChihuahua 17:40, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
11. Oppose Too confrontational, and too much process wonking. Latest example? I nominated Saddle Butte (Wyoming) for speedy delete. This nonexistant place near Jackson, Wyoming can't be found on any map, google the place and all one gets is a subdivision, and a street. It is actually located on East Gros Ventre Butte, which in itself isn't notable. Jeff comes along nominates it for Afd and claims that "places aren't speedyable" ...really? Since when? I've written about 50 stubs and short articles about places in the region and am a member of Misplaced Pages: WikiProject Wyoming...if the place did exist and could be referenced, I would have done something about improving it. Jeff then claims that the article has "context"...I attempted to show that the criteria for speedy deletion is valid if it has "Little or no context"...it is a one sentence article, no refs, because none correctly identify the location. Full thread. Geez...these kinds of minor incidents, stacked up on one another ad nauseum is borderline tendentious editing.--MONGO 17:49, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
12. Conservative oppose. Inclusionism good, being honest about ED good, but a number of points of controversy are still being raised. Agree with Slim that adminship is a yes/no question. Possibly Dekimasu has it best when he/she says that an important role can be played without being an admin. There is a possibility that rogues will turn lawful good when imbued with trust, so I could be wrong. Samsara (talk • contribs) 17:52, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
13. Oppose. Sorry, but I don't like Jeff's attempt to shape Misplaced Pages to match his own interests, and I really don't like his answer to the IAR question. IAR is, even if you don't like it, one of the founding philosophies of Misplaced Pages. Finally, I have been entirely unconvinced of Jeff's ability to remain civil in the heat of a controversial discussion, as often many of his comments turn to personal, condescending attacks. Rockstar (/_C) 18:22, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

    I'd like to think that we all come here in policy discussions in an attempt to shape the project to our own interests. Maybe I'm wrong on that. --badlydrawnjeff talk 18:42, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

    I like to think that we come into policy discussions in order to shape the project in the best interest of the community. Misplaced Pages isn't a place for individuals working in their own self-interest, it's a place for community. Rockstar (/_C) 18:46, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

    I guess I just don't see that as a mutually exclusive concept. --badlydrawnjeff talk 18:49, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

    It is when you have the approach of "Misplaced Pages as a community be damned as long as I get what I want." And, especially at the IAR talk page, that's what I've seen. Rockstar (/_C) 18:56, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

    In that case, I'm sorry that's how you see it. --badlydrawnjeff talk 18:58, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

    Me too, trust me. I don't like opposing RfAs. Rockstar (/_C) 18:59, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

14. Oppose. I have concerns about the limited adminship concept, and the issues raised by others here. Crum375 18:51, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

    Is it a concern I can address? "No" is an okay answer. --badlydrawnjeff talk 18:54, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

    It seems to me that limited adminship is a way to allow candidates who are not totally trustworthy to become admins. To me even a 'limited admin' wields power, and can probably upgrade to full admin later without much fanfare. So I prefer to see adminship as an all-or-none deal - either we trust the person or we don't. We had a history of an admin offering to post confidential 'deleted' material to an attack site. You yourself were previously involved with an attack site. I personally have a problem with anyone related to an attack site, even if not currently active, and have a problem with such a person becoming admin here. Crum375 20:16, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

    Okay, sorry I can't help you more on this, then. I'd hope a review of my contribs over the last year may take care of some of those fears, but I'm sorry I won't meet your standard. --badlydrawnjeff talk 20:28, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

15. Absolutely not. Jeff cares more about following rules than doing what is right, and making him an administrator would lead to inevitable wheel wars whenever someone doesn't follow Jeff's particular interpretation of the rules. As a user he is rather harmless, even with all of the spouting off about "admin abuse" and "violations of policy" — but he would not be harmless as an administrator. --Cyde Weys 19:05, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
16. Oppose I can't trust someone who revert wars so often and shows little respect for consenus. I'm also troubled by the opposition to IAR and insistence on process for its own sake. The "limited adminship" thing doesn't help. --Minderbinder 19:10, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
17. Oppose per all above (especially Cyde) and my interactions with this user. While we do agree from time to time, Jeff is too confrontational and always thinks he is right whenever someone questions his motives on his user talk page. I absolutely would not trust him with the tools, even in the capacity of limited adminship (which I have no opinion about), unless this were to change. --Coredesat 19:56, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

    I'm not sure how to change that. I admit when I'm wrong, so I'm sorry you feel otherwise. --badlydrawnjeff talk 20:13, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

18. Very Strong Oppose Per Cyde and others. This user has displayed a rudeness and blatant disrespect to myself, and other admins, especially when it comes to deleting pages, and at one point labeled me a "deletionist." The last thing we need is an admin who believes that there is no such thing as crap on Misplaced Pages. We especially do not need an admin who fails to understand how hard, annoying, and painful our work is. —Pilotguy cleared for takeoff 20:15, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

    I don't recall that ever happening, honestly: I do recall paying you a bit of a compliment regarding your stance on these things, so I'm somewhat surprised. I never once, however, believed that there's "no such thing as crap" or failed to understand the occasional difficulties admins encounter. This one's coming out of left field for me, sorry. --badlydrawnjeff talk 20:28, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

    Oppose per Cyde and because of Encyclopedia Dramatica associations. I don't think that admins should be associated with such sites, even if the association is in the past. If this keeps up, we'll be having Somey from Misplaced Pages Review nominated as an admin. Gretab 20:37, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Neutral

1. Interesting one, this. I'll be sure to come back later... Grandmasterka 17:37, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
2. Neutral Aside from the asinine idea of limited adminship I think that jeff isn't the appropriate personality type for adminship. For the same reason that I'll never be an admin he shouldn't either: he is zealous and extremist in his views and his vision for wikipedia is radically far from the general consensus. I simply do not believe that he will be able to put the letter of policy ahead of his own personal conviction. At the same time jeff is a fantastic contributor, creating great articles, active in policy discussion and creation and with a indepth knoweldge of the inner workings of wikipedia and even more importantly its community. I very much respect his character even though I'm often in total disagreement with him. So while I can't support his adminship I can't oppose his nomination wither, its simply a ideological difference and I don't think that (short of malicious intent) that is a legit reason to oppose giving these tools to a honest and commited editor. NeoFreak 17:50, 20 April 2007 (UTC)