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Current DYK

• ... that Jumbo's became the first white-owned restaurant in Miami to serve and employ black people, beginning in the late 1960s?

That's a big and hard to prove claim. One reference says that most restaurants didn't employ blacks . WLRN says that the ckaim is from the owners . The New York Times also says "The owners say that Jumbo’s, in Miami’s Liberty City neighborhood, was the first white-owned restaurant to employ and serve blacks.". We are saying this in wikivoice! Secretlondon (talk) 15:01, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Pinging @Tails Wx, Another Believer, Prince of Erebor, AirshipJungleman29, and Crisco 1492:. Strikes me that the simplest solution is to attribute.--Launchballer 15:22, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

• Attributed, with these edits.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 15:26, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure that's enough, because not only does the article still say it in wikivoice, but the then-owners sold it to a developer in 2014.--Launchballer 15:36, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

• Article now says "Owners claimed". I didn't do that part as the article isn't protected. The sale to developer, I think, doesn't really change that the persons voicing the claim were the owners. Unless the developer took the name, too, they aren't the owners of Jumbo's... they're the owner of the site. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 16:03, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

The NYT also has a quote "I can’t tell you for sure whether they were the first, second or third to integrate...", so yeah, saying this in wikivoice seems problematic. RoySmith (talk) 15:40, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Indeed, and we shouldn't be saying that anything was "claimed" per MOS:CLAIM. It casts doubt on the assertion but also gives it an air of legitimacy that is questionable. Suggest we pull, since there's no way to know whether it's true or not. And the owners claiming it without evidence isn't a DYK-worthy definite fact.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:32, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Can we simply change the hook? Eg DYK that when Jumbo's employed three black people, thirty white people quit? JennyOz (talk) 10:06, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

This ALT works for me, but I haven't yet been able to access the source. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:05, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Verified.  Done. Slightly tweaked to " that when the restaurant Jumbo's hired three black people, thirty white people quit". Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:10, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

It now says "desegregated" which could mean customers rather than staff. Secretlondon (talk) 15:30, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Gatoclass, would you be ok with "hired three black people" instead of "desegregated"? Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 16:00, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

• "... that American stage actress Verna Mersereau performed her traditional classical dances before royalty in Calcutta?"

The article only says that she performed the lead role in the play "Rain" before royalty in Calcutta, it says nothing about what she did in that play, what kind of dances she performed (she learned "various dance styles" and I have no idea what "traditional classical dances" are in the first place, are they different from other "classical dances" in some way?). The article doesn't even mention "traditional". I have the impression that the hook is a piece of WP:SYNTH, joining the claim that she performed in "Rain" in Calcutta with the claim that she performed classical dances in "A romance of Old Egypt". Fram (talk) 10:13, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

I'll go farther, this just seems like "dancer dances", whether I knew it or not, why should I care? --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 12:04, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

I'd support pulling, if another admin gets to it before me (I have to review the procedure). Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:05, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Pulled and replaced with a hook that ran last month. I looked for guidance on whether it's appropriate to run a new hook after half the day has passed, and couldn't find any. If anyone knows the answer, let me know! Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:31, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

• I read "... that on the same day that the members of Heaven's Gate died in a mass suicide, five members of an unrelated group did likewise?" They did likewise what? For my understanding: "die (in a suicide)". I don't believe that dying, even in a suicide, is something you "do". I my be the only one to have a problem, - ignore me if that is so. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:31, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
  • I didn't have a problem! Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:05, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
• Can we get the thumbnail changed to File:Old Viriamo, back view by Walter Knoche, 1911.jpg? If the blurb is about her tattoos, it makes sense to have an illustration of her tattoos...I was wondering where in the image the 'adze' tattoo was. wound theology◈ 11:52, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

  

  • Thoughts on this, Lajmmoore? I can see good arguments for either picture. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:05, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

  • I think it is better if it is a picture of her face, as that shows who she was as a person, rather than a drawing made by a European explorer. Some of these drawings may have been deliberate exaggerations to demonstrate how "other" indigenous people were.. In terms of the adze, @wound_theology it was on her face (as it states in the article), but the photo and its angle, her age and ink fading, make it difficult to see. Thanks for the ping @Firefangledfeathers- it's good to have discussions like these.

  Lajmmoore (talk) 15:17, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

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