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Revision as of 18:10, 14 November 2024 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,302,015 editsm Archiving 2 discussion(s) to Talk:Suicide/Archive 8) (botNext edit → |
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== Help for suicidal people == |
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I think there should be two hatnotes below the existing ones. The first one should link to the Misplaced Pages article on suicide crisis lines, saying something like: If you are feeling suicidal, you deserve to feel better and can find worldwide crisis lines from people who will listen to you from this article: ] |
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And the second one should say: For a list of resources actively maintained by the Wikimedia Foundation, see Meta:Mental health resources. |
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They should be a couple spaces below the already existing ones so it'll catch the eye of suicidal people immediately ] (]) 10:13, 19 July 2022 (UTC) |
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:Adding this type of hatnote gets discussed every few months on this talk page. It hasn't received enough support to achieve consensus, I also suggest you read the old discussions in the archives so as not to retread old ground.--] (]) 11:48, 19 July 2022 (UTC) |
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::When my battery's charged I will, although if it hasn't achieved consensus yet I don't see that as a reason not to try again. People might feel differently this time ] (]) 11:52, 19 July 2022 (UTC) |
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:We shouldn't even have the "for information on prevention" note in the first place. We definitely shouldn't be adding any more. --] (]) (]) 10:47, 30 August 2022 (UTC) |
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:There should be a link to support services for suicidal people. ] (]) 23:05, 31 August 2022 (UTC) |
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::Did you read the information in the banner at the top regarding this? ] (]) 02:43, 1 September 2022 (UTC) |
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::::Well one reason "not to try" is because it's officially endorsing certain beliefs and by extent condemning other ones. Not everybody believes in the same things, including regarding suicide, not everybody thinks it's unethical, or something to be prevented, some believe the exact opposite, different people and societies across time view it in many many different ways. |
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::::It's not our place to support certain beliefs and not all the rest. Misplaced Pages should be a place of impartiality. The article should only contain the relevant and unbiased information on the topic, not prejudicial notes. ] (]) 17:10, 21 December 2022 (UTC) |
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:This has been discussed many times in the past, but yet I strongly believe this should be added in some way or another. I will admit than in times in the past, this singular Misplaced Pages article almost ended up in my death. I think that while Misplaced Pages should have a neutral point of view, it is just morally wrong to ignore what the article could do, and have this page without any form of advice. The content certainly shouldn't be censored, but we don't want to cause or encourage suicide without at least giving a little bit of help. I think there should at least be one final consensus either way, and to leave a notice about that at the top of this page to stop further discussion. Has ArbCom discussed this at all? ~ ] (]) 03:21, 27 December 2022 (UTC) |
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::I hear you, however, you'd be forcing your view/beliefs onto others. |
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::While you say: "it is just morally wrong to ignore what the article could do, and have this page without any form of advice", and: "but we don't want to cause or encourage suicide without at least giving a little bit of help". I would contend for just the opposite, suicide is neither morally wrong, nor morally neutral, but rather it's morally good, and trying to make people doubt themselves or not due so is just morally wrong; and that it's morally wrong to perpetuate the idea that suicide is universally viewed as unequivocally wrong. I'd say we should definitely give help, help for the people who wish to perform suicide to do so comfortably and effectively, something that people are often deprived of when they do die. I'd say any act of prevention any barrier is extremely cruel and wrong. |
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::We all believe different things. What I said wasn't some joke hypothetical, that's genuinely what I believe, but I'm also not one to dismiss other people's perspectives or to force my view onto them, I'd say we should represent all view in the article itself, and not chose to give one special weight disregarding all others. ] (]) 23:09, 29 December 2022 (UTC) |
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:::I didn't think I'd actually be able to see the other side, but I do understand where you are coming from. I think a simple hatnote with a link to ] would be fine. Like on this talk page: "The Wikimedia Foundation's Trust and Safety team maintains a list of crisis support resources." That is just a statement of fact, and doesn't have any biases. |
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:::Coming back to this later: abiding by Misplaced Pages policies is important, and the existing links on ] and ] to ] are pretty good- maybe nothing more is needed? The ] also provided some good insight into reasons why and why not. So in that case I guess maybe there is nothing else to be done... I'll think on it some more! ~ ] (]) 02:26, 30 December 2022 (UTC) |
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::::The ONLY question that is relevant is "Is including such a note encyclopedic?" And the answer is "no". Coverage of such services in the article and links to articles on such service are, a "get help here" note isn't. --] (]) (]) 15:29, 30 December 2022 (UTC) |
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:::Something similar to a simple hatnote like they proposed is absolutely not something “forcing your view/beliefs onto others.”. I understand your reasoning in your comments but I heavily disagree. ] (]) 18:38, 22 July 2023 (UTC) |
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::::Fortunately, suicide is illegal..that keeps people from doing it ] (]) 23:04, 16 September 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::That's just factually inaccurate. You might want to read the article. ] (]) 23:22, 16 September 2023 (UTC) |
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::::::] --] (]) 15:32, 15 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::::The point probably wasn't that it is legal, the point was likely that the illegality of it doesn't stop people from doing it. ~ ] (]) 16:57, 15 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::I really, really hope you aren't serious... ~ ] (]) 23:24, 16 September 2023 (UTC) |
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::::::I believe they were being sarcastic ] (]) 11:33, 17 September 2023 (UTC) |
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== "]" listed at ] == |
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] |
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The redirect <span class="plainlinks"></span> has been listed at ] to determine whether its use and function meets the ]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at {{slink|Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 29#Killed yourself}} until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> ] 18:37, 29 March 2023 (UTC) |
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ADHD shouldn’t be listed here as a mental disorder. It’s not a mental health condition but is a neurodevelopmental condition or neurodivergence. ] (]) 18:16, 10 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:Neurodevelopmental conditions are a type of mental disorder. ] (]) 06:04, 11 March 2024 (UTC) |
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== Really? == |
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== Really? == |
Though it probably has been discussed before in connection with this article, because of the importance of this subject, I'd like to question this anyway: "Common methods of suicide include hanging, pesticide poisoning, and firearms." How can we define those methods as more common that the fact that many more people seem to end their lives in a longer more drawn-out way through continual substance abuse? In my opinion an autopsy that reveals organ failure or other health disasters due to such abuse should always be included in suicide statistics. Is that done? SergeWoodzing (talk) 17:32, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
Change "Common methods of suicide include hanging, pesticide poisoning, and firearms."
I recently removed a crisis hotline image in the lead section, but I'm adding this onto the Talk page because it seems to be a disputed edit. User @Dustfreeworld added this from the Suicide prevention article Special:Diff/1172475298, then added a cute little hidden-comment after it was removed by another editor Special:Diff/1190507116. I certainly don't think the correct approach is to keep re-adding the image after it was removed 3 times without talk page consensus (as well as adding that hidden-comment along with it to deter further amateur editors from removing the image), so my rationale for removing this while it was in the lead is that this article is about suicide, not suicide prevention. Crisis hotlines do not have a direct relation to suicide, but do have a direct relation to suicide prevention, which has its own article. There is already no consensus to add crisis hotlines as a hatnote, and adding the same thing in image form at the top seems to be POV-pushing the same idea behind adding crisis hotlines at the top. Crisis hotlines correctly have little weight in the lead, and there are many other topics in the lead that warrant illustration. — Karnataka 06:33, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
Nihilism is a philosophical concept and is inappropriate to be listed as a risk factor for suicide. People who are nihilist do not necessarily have a greater risk factor for suicide. Cateydotnet (talk) 04:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
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level-3 vital article is rated GA-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
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Note: The question of adding a crisis hotline number to this article has been discussed. Please review previous discussions before bringing it up again. See Talk:Suicide/crisis hotline link, and also this request for comment. The hat note should not be changed without first establishing a new consensus.
