Misplaced Pages

Latest revision as of 11:13, 16 November 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Killing of Yahya Sinwar article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1Auto-archiving period: 3 months

	Killing of Yahya Sinwar was a Warfare good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result October 17, 2024 Articles for deletion Kept November 4, 2024 Good article nominee Not listed
	A news item involving this article was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the "In the news" column on October 17, 2024.
Current status: Former good article nominee

This article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.

Crime and Criminal Biography: Terrorism Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by the Terrorism task force (assessed as Low-importance). Death Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Israel Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Project Israel To Do: edit history watch purge Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Assess : Rate the Unassessed Israel-related articles and Unknown-importance Israel-related articles. Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category and the tool's wiki page. Collaborate : Participate in WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration. Copyedit : Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005 Deletion sorting : Participate in discussions at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel. Expand : Ayala Procaccia, Diamond industry in Israel, Edna Arbel, Levin Kipnis, Rami Kleinstein, Sephardic Haredim, Zman Tel Aviv, Nachum Heiman, Public Defence (Israel), Prisoner of Zion, Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu, Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran, Pre-Modern Aliyah See also Articles needing translation from Hebrew Misplaced Pages. Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to Israel articles missing geocoordinate data. Infobox : Add infoboxes to Israel articles needing infoboxes. Maintain : See Israel articles needing attention. Map : See discussion at Module:Location map/data/Israel. Add maps to articles in Misplaced Pages requested maps in Israel. NPOV : Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries Photo : Add pictures to articles in Misplaced Pages requested photographs in Israel. Stubs : See Israel stubs. Update : Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People Other : Translate to Hebrew : David Bar-Hayim, Guy Bavli, and Guy Oseary. Israel Palestine Collaboration This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration, a collaborative, bipartisan effort to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. For guidelines and a participants list see the project page. See also {{Palestine-Israel enforcement}}, the ArbCom-authorized discretionary sanctions, the log of blocks and bans, and Working group on ethnic and cultural edit wars. You can discuss the project at its talk page.Israel Palestine CollaborationWikipedia:WikiProject Israel Palestine CollaborationTemplate:WikiProject Israel Palestine CollaborationIsrael Palestine Collaboration Military history: Asian / Middle East / Post-Cold War This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status: Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met Associated task forces: /  Asian military history task force Middle Eastern military history task force Post-Cold War task force Palestine Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Misplaced Pages. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. Parts of this article relate to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing the parts of the page related to the contentious topic: You must be logged-in to an extended confirmed account (granted automatically to accounts with 500 edits and an age of 30 days) You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on this article (except in limited circumstances) Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. If it is unclear which parts of the page are related to this contentious topic, the content in question should be marked within the wiki text by an invisible comment. If no comment is present, please ask an administrator for assistance. If in doubt it is better to assume that the content is covered.

This topic contains controversial issues, some of which have reached a consensus for approach and neutrality, and some of which may be disputed. Before making any potentially controversial changes to the article, please carefully read the discussion-page dialogue to see if the issue has been raised before, and ensure that your edit meets all of Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. Please also ensure you use an accurate and concise edit summary.

Misplaced Pages is not censored. Images or details contained within this article may be graphic or otherwise objectionable to some readers, to ensure a quality article and complete coverage of its subject matter. For more information, please refer to Misplaced Pages's content disclaimer regarding potentially objectionable content and options for not seeing an image.

Request for Grammar Fix 2

In the "analysis" section, this sentence exists: "It was also considered a release of hostages to be unlikely, as Hamas being unable to win on the battlefield would have to use hostages to pressure Israel to a full withdrawal from Gaza, which would allow Hamas to begin rebuilding its military force." Please remove the word "was" as shown in sttikethrough formatting. Goodsnapman (talk) 20:39, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Dead body

Can pictures of Sinwar's dead body be uploaded to Commons? Theoretically they have been shot by the IDF, just as the other here 2804:14D:5C32:4673:94C4:6BE8:42E5:F023 (talk) 02:00, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Clear case of bias and another minor change

In the sentence "Benjamin Netanyahu declared that Sinwar's death marks the beginning of a new era without Hamas's rule over Gaza, urging Gazans to seize the opportunity to break free from its tyranny, and adding that those holding hostages will be spared if they surrender and release them.", there's a clear implication of bias supporting Israel and dehumanizing Hamas. How do people even get away with this?!

Moreover, there's a small note, Hamas's should be changed to Hamas'. Wirmaple73 (talk) 18:28, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

I hate to break it to you but none of what you call issues are actual issues; The Benjamin Netanyahu part is just Misplaced Pages reporting what he said. The ('s) part is grammatically correct as far as I am aware Abo Yemen✉ 18:44, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Shouldn't it be put between double quotes instead? Wirmaple73 (talk) 03:07, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

The Netanyahu part I mean Wirmaple73 (talk) 03:08, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

No, as it's not a direct quotation. The article makes it clear that what is being presented is Netanyahu's personal opinion, so there is no potential to mislead. 157.181.131.246 (talk) 06:51, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

"Hamas's" is correct. MOS:POSS. The only real exception is when an official name uses only an apostrophe. That doesn't apply here. WP Ludicer (talk) 20:54, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Important context for "there were no hostages nearby"

It is important to note that Sinwar kept the six hostages as his personal human shield before dispatching them to deter the IDF for coming too close. Times of Israel: Six slain hostages were likely Sinwar's shields, lived for months on energy bars --Scharb (talk) 21:57, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

MBC "controversy"

In the relevant section, the article currently describes a "controversy" where "certain groups" were outraged by MBC's labelling of Sinwar as a terrorist, after which their office in Iraq was stormed by militias and their license was revoked by the government.

This style of coverage is not supported at all by the AP source, and I don't have access to the other one. According to AP, militias stormed a media HQ to protest their publications. Hours later, the Iraqi government revoked their operating license. That's it. There was no "controversy" leading up to this point, and it never went beyond the militias and the Iraqi government. "Certain groups" are not mentioned.

Of further concern is that the section does not mention the likely primary reason for the militia's actions, which is not Sinwar, but instead that the report called a deputy commander of an Iraqi militia a terrorist. Most likely, this is way more pertinent as a piece of information regarding this incident.

Considering Sinwar's ultimate irrelevance, I believe this section should be removed. However, even if it's not removed, it absolutely should be reworded. Dieknon (talk) 06:03, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

While I don't agree with each and every word in your analysis (obviously the airing of the report was controversial), I do agree that it doesn't belong in this article since there is no connection between the report and the subject of this article other than proximity in time. However, the content fits very nicely into the article about MBC Group. The Mountain of Eden (talk) 14:03, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Killing to Assassination

Instead of killing, it should be assassination. Since this is a political matter, I demand to change its title. Thank you. Jannatulbaqi (talk) 13:27, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

assassination is the planned killing of a prominent person, which is not the case here Abo Yemen✉ 14:23, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Since the Israel-Palestine issue is a political matter, the murder of a leader of a major organization should be referred to as an 'assassination' rather than just a 'killing'. Thanks Jannatulbaqi (talk) 14:34, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

That is not how it works. Sinwar died while fighting, which makes him killed in action and not assassinated Abo Yemen✉ 14:54, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Ohh okay, got it! Thank you. Jannatulbaqi (talk) 17:13, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 October 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Replace the cropped image with Yahya_Sinwar._October_16,_2024._II.jpg since its higher quality. Depotadore (talk) 13:53, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Edit at Killing of Yahya Sinwar

Use of the word "spokesman" in the article, without naming the "spokespman", is the same wording used by the Al Jazeera, reference on which the content is based. I don't know if your edit was intended to convey a broader message beyond Misplaced Pages, but it certainly highlights that the reference practices shoddy journalism, yet is considered by the Misplaced Pages community as a reliable source. The Mountain of Eden (talk) 18:44, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

@The Mountain of Eden: what are you on about? Im pretty sure the houthi's "spokesman"'s name was mentioned in other sources hence i added the who tag. Plus the who tag doesn't question the reliablity of the reference. Anyways thanks for assuming good faith Abo Yemen✉ 03:32, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

How do we know that the Houthis have only one "spokesman"? Al Jazeera should have named the spokesman that they quoted, and your addition of the {{who}} template drives home that point. The Mountain of Eden (talk) 05:15, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

I never said any of that? You're discrediting Al-Jazeera on your own now Abo Yemen✉ 05:18, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

This started with the addition of a {{who}} tag. The name of the spokesman has been added. The issue has been resolved. —Alalch E. 16:12, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Good work, Alalch E.. The new reference you added allows for the addition of more content. See this edit. The Mountain of Eden (talk) 18:07, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 October 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Change

Killed in the Israel-Hamas war

to

killed in the Israel Genocide against Palestinians

source:

https://www.icj-cij.org/node/203454 CDLFC (talk) 17:52, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Misplaced Pages articles maintain a neutral point of view and impartial tone. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 18:25, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

CDLFC: Oh and before you go please read wikipedia's policy of keeping a WP:Neutral Point of View. Yes, it is a genocide but we have to present the subject in a manner where supporters of either side would read this and wouldn't feel the need to attack wikipedia on twitter or whatever app you use. Abo Yemen✉ 18:41, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Abo Yemen, we don't accept or reject proposed edits based on whether or not readers would attack Misplaced Pages on social media but based on reliable sources and editor consensus. Your first sentence was correct but your second one is based on your opinion. Liz 01:26, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

my bad Abo Yemen✉ 05:41, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 October 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

I found the name of the Houthi spokesman who made the statement about Sinwar's death, which is a suggested edit. The spokesman is Yahya Saree.

Source:  Mbrs128 (talk) 13:08, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

•  Not done Not verifiable, contrary to what is verifiable, and WP:SYNTH. The Ynet source mentions that one person said something, while our article quotes a different statement, without naming the person who made it. Going by the Ynet source, there is no evidence that the person associated with the quote in the Ynet article is the maker of the different statement quoted in our article. What can actually be verified is that that the Houthi spokesperson who made the statement quoted in our article is a different spokesperson from the one quoted by Ynet (Ahram Online). Two statements, each made by a different spokesperson. Pinging User:Mbrs128 to see this as a useful example of something that illustrates well why have the policies Misplaced Pages:No original research and WP:Verifiability.—Alalch E. 15:55, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

  Not so fast. While we cannot use this reference as suggested, the reference still has valuable content that can be added to the article. --The Mountain of Eden (talk) 13:58, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

References

1. https://www.ynetnews.com/article/sylt4ffxye

Vague assertion

"Some in Israel characterized the imagery as showing defeat, while Sinwar's supporters interpreted his conduct as emblematic of defiance. "

Some: who? characterized it?' Sinwar's supporters: whom?

User:Pedant (talk) 20:59, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 October 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Article refers to David Halperin, CEO of Israel Policy Forum. David A. Halperin is indeed CEO of that organization, but the article erroneously links to the wiki article for David M. Halperin, an American social theorist with no ties to the Israel Policy Forum. Henrywdaniels (talk) 04:10, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Please remove the erroneous link Henrywdaniels (talk) 04:10, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

 Done Skynxnex (talk) 19:41, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Killing of Yahya Sinwar/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Abo Yemen (talk · contribs) 08:45, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: The Blue Rider (talk · contribs) 05:42, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Per WP:GAI, I will quick-fail the article as a drive-by nomination since the nominator isn't ranked at 6th or higher in authorship nor his the author of at least 10% of the article. The Blue Rider 05:53, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment not the reviewer, but I really have reservations about GA-ing any article on an event that happened less than a month ago. It's impossible to give a complete picture of this event so shortly after it happened, so I don't think at this stage it's even POSSIBLE to pass this on the "major aspects" criterion. This happened less than a month ago! I personally would quickfail this, as it is impossible at this stage to write an article that matches our standards (and I was going to, but someone beat me to the review). PARAKANYAA (talk) 05:49, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

  @PARAKANYAA: IMHO I didn't think that it would get reviewed this quick (I taught that it might take two months to get noticed in the first place, just like most articles do) but as far as i can see reporting on his death stopped about 2 weeks ago and we have a relatively good article Abo Yemen✉ 05:52, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Former good article nominees
• Misplaced Pages In the news articles
• B-Class Crime-related articles
• Low-importance Crime-related articles
• B-Class Terrorism articles
• Low-importance Terrorism articles
• Terrorism task force articles
• WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography articles
• B-Class Death articles
• Low-importance Death articles
• B-Class Israel-related articles
• Low-importance Israel-related articles
• WikiProject Israel articles
• WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration articles
• B-Class military history articles
• B-Class Asian military history articles
• Asian military history task force articles
• B-Class Middle Eastern military history articles
• Middle Eastern military history task force articles
• B-Class Post-Cold War articles
• Post-Cold War task force articles
• B-Class Palestine-related articles
• Mid-importance Palestine-related articles
• WikiProject Palestine articles
• Misplaced Pages controversial topics
• Misplaced Pages objectionable content