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Deletion Sorting Project (talk)Project page Lists (by ABC) Lists (by topic) Lists (computer-readable) AfD: Today, Yesterday Delsort scripts v t e This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Judaism. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page. Adding a new AfD discussion Adding an AfD to this page does not add it to the main page at WP:AFD. Similarly, removing an AfD from this page does not remove it from the main page at WP:AFD. If you want to nominate an article for deletion, go through the process on that page before adding it to this page. To add a discussion to this page, follow these steps: Edit this page and add {{Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/PageName}} to the top of the list. Replace "PageName" with the relevant article name, i.e. the one on the existing AFD discussion. Also, indicate the title of the article in the edit summary as it is particularly helpful to add a link to the article in the edit summary. When you save the page, the discussion will automatically appear. You should also tag the AfD by adding {{subst:delsort|Judaism|~~~~}} to it, which will inform editors that it has been listed here. You may place this tag above or below the nomination statement or at the end of the discussion thread. There are a few scripts and tools that can make this easier. Removing a closed AfD discussion Closed AfD discussions are automatically removed by a bot. Other types of discussions You can also add and remove other discussions (prod, CfD, TfD etc.) related to Judaism. For the other XfD's, the process is the same as AfD (except {{Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/PageName}} is used for MFD and {{transclude xfd}} for the rest). For PRODs, adding a link with {{prodded}} will suffice. Further information For further information see Misplaced Pages's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination. Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at: WikiProject Deletion sorting/Judaism/archive Purge page cache watch

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Judaism topics

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. I see a rough consensus that POV issues, if any, can be fixed editorially, and that the subject is sufficiently covered by sources to warrant its own article. Owen× ☎ 14:06, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

Genocide in the Hebrew Bible

Genocide in the Hebrew Bible (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Per prior discussion(s) on article talk (which have stalled out for several weeks), this article is essentially a largely OVERLAP’d POVFORK with serious neutrality issues. The discussion of this topic is already extensively covered and properly sourced in articles such as War in the Hebrew Bible, The Bible and violence, and Judaism and violence; as is the modern day relevance of particular passages in Amalek. The contents of these discussions are neither so long that they warrant SIZESPLIT, nor are they so notable as to require a page outside their discussions on the relevant pages. Sinclairian (talk) 15:44, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Literature, Christianity, and Judaism. Skynxnex (talk) 17:02, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
• In case it wasn’t obvious, my vote lies on delete/merge. Sinclairian (talk) 18:03, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. All of this is covered on other articles. ButlerBlog (talk) 17:35, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
• Procedural keep. I don't see an argument for deletion here. I see no evidence that the article is so rife with neutrality that WP:TNT is appropriate. Nobody has disputed notability, only where this material should be covered - which is not a matter for AfD, particularly when multiple plausible merge targets exist. AfD cannot replace normal talk page discussion. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:44, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
• Procedural keep. Vanamonde93 sums the situation up perfectly. Per WP:DEL-CONTENT: Disputes over page content are usually not dealt with by deleting the page, except in severe cases. The content issues should be discussed at the relevant talk page, and other methods of dispute resolution should be used first, such as listing on Misplaced Pages:Requests for comments for further input (my emph., and again per V93, the neutrality concerns are insufficiently egregious (by spades) to qualify for the level of severity required to warrant deletion, especially when alternatives are available). Talk page discussion and possible merge/redirects do not take place at AfD. SerialNumber54129 18:36, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
• Delete or merge to the Bible and violence. I question whether this page scope is fundamentally a SYNTHetic premise. The word "genocide" isn't mentioned in anything as old as the bible, as that word dates to 1944. It's true that we could still have an article about a modern concept of this. But, should we, or would this be handled better elsewhere? I don't see enough detail or sources in depth about this specific topic to handle as a separate article, personally, so I'm ending up here. Andre🚐 19:13, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

  It's not WP:SYNTH if other people have already applied the modern concept of genocide to the stories told in the Hebrew Bible. That by itself doesn't mean that an article with this title is the best place to talk about the subject, of course, but the idea isn't original. XOR'easter (talk) 19:55, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

  There are plenty of sources, totaling hundreds of pages, that were cited in the original version of the article and have more than enough content to support an extensive article. (t · c) buidhe 03:43, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

• Procedural keep per vanamonde. (t · c) buidhe 03:43, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

Procedural keep per vanamonde Codonified (talk) 02:34, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

• Keep. This is almost certainly better covered as a section of War in the Hebrew Bible, but that's a content issue that doesn't really belong at AfD. None of the potential issues require deletion. Eluchil404 (talk) 03:50, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
• Delete per nom, making sure any usable content is covered at Amalek, The Bible and violence and War in the Hebrew Bible. BobFromBrockley (talk) 22:41, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
• Delete. This is a content fork to War in the Hebrew Bible. My very best wishes (talk) 02:28, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
• Delete. I agree with Andre that this is WP:synth and WP:OR. It is a Bible study rather than an Encyclopedia article. It contains no agreed upon definition of genocide, so there is no way to tell if the topic is notable - or if it is even valid. "If the modern concept of genocide has been discussed" is not sufficient to warrant an article on it. This article is not neutral. It takes a position: Mainstream biblical scholarship does not regard this part of the Bible to be faithfully depicting historical events. However, it could still be concluded that God commanded genocide. Which, btw, is the opposite of what the cited source says about encouraging scholars to take seriously the widely held conclusion that ideology alone is an inadequate explanation for genocide. If this article isn't deleted, the content should be wiped, and someone without a bone to pick should redo the entire thing from scratch. Please don't merge it as is. It's too poorly done. Jenhawk777 (talk) 04:28, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Procedural keep per Vanamonde93 – Beyond the lack of a straightforward deletion reason, or evidence of an intractible issue as discussed on talk, the main suggestion here appears to be for a merger, but this would have been better handled with a merger discussion. On the matter of mergers, both War in the Hebrew Bible and The Bible and violence are already lengthy pages that are approaching the size where they would potentially be candidates for a split in any case, so the benefits of such a merger – let alone the question of whether the material presented here would be due on those pages – merits a proper, dedicated discussion. Iskandar323 (talk) 08:47, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Agreed, I’ve come to realize that a merger proposal should have been the initial course of action, but I didn’t know such a procedure existed at the time. I figure that I’ll let this discussion run its course just in case there’s a sudden spike in discussion, and then create a merger proposal once this is actually closed. Sinclairian (talk) 13:40, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Strong Keep. If a an article with a blatant and strong POV fails to satisfy notability : it definitely is better off deleted for possible malicious intent. But that really isn't the case with Google Scholar returning 90k hits of the two terms being used together , whenever from the perspective of religious theology or its cultural and ethical influences. The article has some nice reputable sources to build on too.

The word 'Genocide' isn't even a century old , but that still doesn't mean that the various attempts to erase entire identities by eliminating its people through either assimilation or mass destruction didn't happen before 1944. Dismissing the article because calling man-made wipeouts before the Holocaust is "anachronistic" isn't really a sound reason as it seems, especially when Lemkin himself used the Albigensian Crusade as an example in his works when he conceived the concrete concept of genocide that we know today , and we already have many ancient precedents. All that means a very rudimentary , no-legalese concept of genocide can indeed go back far enough to Biblical times ; the Bronze and Iron Ages.

Just because an article's initial revisions may seem 'biased' to some editors , doesn't mean we can just do away with it entirely. We can instead simply rewrite it from scratch if need be. The article has potential for interesting content , and the case for deletion isn't really that solid. TheCuratingEditor (talk) 12:16, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: There's not yet consensus as to whether the SYNTH/CFORK issues, if any, warrant deletion, or whether such issues should be addressed in merger or redirection discussions.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 15:56, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

• Procedural keep as discussed above. The sourcing is fine and the topic appears notable. Neutrality is another issue, but it's not for AfD to decide. Oaktree b (talk) 16:03, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
• Keep a notable topic as demonstrated. Not a TNT case. PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:02, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. There's no consensus on where this should be merged or redirected to. (non-admin closure) Vanderwaalforces (talk) 21:22, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

JCC Maccabi Youth Games

JCC Maccabi Youth Games (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Redirect to parent org Maccabi World Union, where it is better contextualized. Youth version of the notable Maccabiah Games. Longhornsg (talk) 16:13, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Judaism, Sports, Olympics, Israel, and United States of America. Longhornsg (talk) 16:13, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 18:03, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Merge (highly selectively) into Jewish Community Center. I do not see it mentioned at the target so the proposed redirect is not really an option. Plus, it's basically a program of the Jewish Community Centers, in collaboration with Maccabi. No objection to delete either. gidonb (talk) 03:43, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as we have two different Redirect/Merge target articles.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz 20:38, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: We still need to settle on one Merge/Redirect target article or this might close as No consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz 20:58, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

• Comment. User:Liz, sorry but only one recommendation is in line with our guidelines. Tallies are interesting but not all telling. gidonb (talk) 17:58, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. Liz 21:57, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

Naftali Schiff

Naftali Schiff (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:GNG. The article reads a lot like a CV. The piece "Rabbi Naftali Schiff: Aish UK's wonderwall" by The Jewish Chronicle might be one source that counts towards notability, but other than that, I haven't been able to find much. Mooonswimmer 15:35, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Judaism, and United Kingdom. Shellwood (talk) 15:44, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• Weak keep. Thanks for the nomination -- I had thought about AfDing this article when originally creating Josef Lewkowicz. Most of the sources currently in the article are poor, and it needs a WP:TNT. But there are multiple, in-depth profiles in the Jewish Chronicle and Jewish News over the years , , , multiple=page coverage in a book , with additional coverage of Schiff role in his charities , , , that could suffice for notability. Longhornsg (talk) 16:30, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Israel and England. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 18:04, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
• Delete as a professional at work. Misses the bar of the GNG. gidonb (talk) 03:36, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
• Keep per sources provided by Longhornsg. Whizkin (talk) 19:57, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz 20:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz 20:59, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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