Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 11:08, 7 January 2025

Welcome back! The October 2024 trial of the administrator elections process has concluded, electing 11 out of 35 candidates. Administrator elections are an alternative path to the requests for adminship process in which candidates are voted on privately via SecurePoll. The process began on October 8 with a week-long nomination period, followed by a quiet period while the SecurePoll software was set up. Then a three-day discussion period began on October 22, followed by a week-long voting phase from October 25 to October 31. The election was approved as a trial run in a discussion at phase I of RFA2024. Some discussion of the process is available at Misplaced Pages talk:Administrator elections, and feedback from candidates and voters was collected on the debrief page. Following that, we now return to vote on a series of proposals to refine the process, decided at the AELECT workshop.

This RfC will not discuss reauthorization of administrator elections; that will be decided on in a follow up RFC after the RFCs on this page are all closed. The idea is to improve the process as much as possible first, then later have a straight up and down vote about renewal.

This is a lot of questions. Some questions will snow close fairly quickly, so feel free to wait until then if you would like less questions to evaluate.

Consider responding to each survey one at a time, to avoid edit conflicts.

RFC tag

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Please opine on the below questions related to the English Misplaced Pages administrator elections process. –Novem Linguae (talk) 10:09, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Q1: Pass percentage

What should the required percentage be to pass an administrator election?

• Option A – 75.00%
• Option B – 70.00% (current)
• Option C – 65.00%
• Option D – 60.00%
• Option E – Other (specify)

Q1 Survey

• Option C - I supported most of the candidates in the 65–70% range of the previous administrator election. These were really solid candidates and I think Misplaced Pages would have been better off had they succeeded. Additionally, having the pass threshold be identical between WP:RFA (65–75%) and WP:AELECT (70%) is questionable, because in secret elections such as WP:ACE and AELECT, voters tend to vote oppose more often. The top candidates in ACE and AELECT only tend to get around 80% instead of 100%. This suggests that the pass threshold for AELECT should be lower than for RFA. –Novem Linguae (talk) 10:20, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
• Option C If people can elect a national leader on about 33% support, we can elect an admin for double that. Ritchie333 10:27, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
• At least option A, if not higher. That's the threshold to pass RFA, and the proposal to lower the RFA threshold in the rfc that enabled the trial election failed. It is not appropriate for there to be a laxer numerical threshold in a process with demonstrably less scrutiny. —Cryptic 10:32, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
• Option B (or A). Partly this is for the reason I gave in phase I: the elections process is a great way to streamline the process for uncontroversial candidates, but serious opposing arguments deserve to be hashed out through the consensus process. (I think the trial bore this out.) Partly it's because the percentages we saw in the trial are basically the low-water mark; as the process becomes more familiar and fewer people blanket-oppose, reaching 70% will become easier all on its own, whereas lowering it even further could have more drastic consequences than anticipated. And partly it's just because I think 70% worked well in the trial. This question is the big one, and I'd encourage people who are excited about AELECT to err on the side of caution here: if the threshold goes down, I think it'd lead to a lot more opposes in the re-authorization RfC, including mine. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 10:42, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
• Option C, or perhaps even D. I oppose raising this higher than the current level. I believe the "lack of scrutiny" challenge will go away when we have more frequent elections and a better procedure in future – the trial election showed that deserving candidates didn't pass, not that undeserving candidates did. Toadspike 10:44, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Q1 Discussion

Q2: Maximum # of candidates in each election (numerical limit)

Should there be a maximum number of candidates in each administrator election? What should it be?

• Option A - No limit (current)
• Option B - 8
• Option C - 10
• Option D - 15
• Option E - 20

Q2 Survey

• Option A. I might end up in the minority on this one, but I think having a high number of candidates is one of the many ways that administrator elections reduced scrutiny and stress for candidates. I would argue that these ways of reducing scrutiny and stress for candidates is the "secret sauce" that makes AELECT work so well, making it a much less stressful/toxic process than RFA. If we start making changes that shine more of a spotlight on candidates, we'll be moving the slider back in the direction of RFA and messing with the "secret sauce". Voters that don't have time to research candidates can always abstain on just those candidates. In the last election, the lowest number of support+oppose votes that any individual candidate received was 318, demonstrating that even if there are a lot of candidates, there are still plenty of voters willing to do research on the candidate and vote support or oppose. Finally, it is likely that future elections will have less candidates, so this may not be an issue for much longer. –Novem Linguae (talk) 10:25, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
• Weak support for Option D. I'm not confident that future elections will have as many candidates as the first one did, especially if we get to hold them regularly, so I don't know if a limit is necessary. However, I oppose any limit lower than 15 as too restrictive. Toadspike 10:49, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
• A or if we really want a limit something like 50. — xaosflux 10:54, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Q2 Discussion

• I agree with Novem's comments in the survey section, but don't want to vote since I was neither a voter (as such) nor one of the organisers, so the large number of candidates didn't pose any problems for me as a candidate, therefore I don't feel I'm in a position to comment.

I will mention a concern I brought up earlier, that the larger the number of candidates, the more influential voter guides become, which could concentrate power in the hands of those few who bother to compile a guide. But as NL says, if these elections become a regular feature, then candidate numbers in any given election are likely to stay relatively low, although cumulatively there could still be 'voter fatigue' which could emphasise the role of voter guides. Although whether that's a good thing or bad, I'm not sure. --DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:45, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Q3: Maximum # of candidates in each election (selection criteria)

If there's a maximum number determined in Q2, which candidates can stand in the elections?

• Option A - The first candidates who sign up chronologically (oldest first)
• Option B - Those who have never requested adminship before in sign-up order (oldest first), followed by time since most recent adminship request (longest ago first)
• Option C - By number of previous requests for adminship (fewest first), then by sign-up order (oldest first)
• Option D - Any candidates who applied but weren't selected to run in the previous election (randomly) then all other candidates (randomly)
• Option E - By number of co-nominators (greatest first)

Q3 Survey

• Option A - Simple. Fair. Close the call for candidates phase as soon as the numerical limit is reached. –Novem Linguae (talk) 10:28, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
• B is fairer, the additional complexity is manageable, and none of that complexity falls on the candidates' shoulders. Especially if the maximum number of candidates we decide on is low - say, the 8 or 10 options above - we shouldn't be devoting four or five slots to people who've tried and failed before, maybe a couple elections in a row, in preference to people who've never run, or who've been waiting longer for a second chance. —Cryptic 10:37, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
• B per Cryptic. Personally I think AELECT should be a one-shot deal, but at a minimum we shouldn't have perennial candidates crowding out others. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 10:46, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Q3 Discussion

Q4: Scrutineering (yes/no)

Should AELECT elections be scrutineered (voter's IP addresses, user agents, etc. recorded and checked by trusted users for sockpuppetry)?

• Option A - Scrutineered. Personal data of voters is visible en-masse to electionadmins, similar to ACE elections (current)
• Option B - Not scrutineered. Personal data of voters is visible en-masse to electionadmins because there is no way to turn it off in SecurePoll, but it will not be methodically checked.

Q4 Survey

• Option A. Yes. This is the norm for SecurePoll elections. The idea behind scrutineering is to prevent sockpuppetry from influencing an election. Election integrity is important. –Novem Linguae (talk) 10:32, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
• Option A. Yes, duh. As long as we have willing scrutineers I do not see the downside (I don't think of PII exposure has been an issue), while improving voter confidence in the outcome is a significant benefit. Toadspike 10:47, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Q4 Discussion

Q5: Scrutineering (who will scrutineer)

If Q4 achieves consensus for Option A (doing scrutineering), who should the scrutineers be in future administrator elections?

• Option A - 3 stewards who are given local CheckUser access solely for scrutineering the election (current)
• Option B - 3 English Misplaced Pages checkusers
• Option C - 3 stewards who are given local CheckUser access solely for scrutineering the election; if not enough Stewards are available, English Misplaced Pages Checkusers may volunteer

Q5 Survey

• Option B. The stewards have stated If the test is successful and enwiki decides to hold admin elections more frequently, I'm not sure Stewards have the capacity to support them. Archive link. I think it'd be fine to have English Misplaced Pages checkusers fulfill this function. These folks are already vetted and trusted to view IP addresses and other sensitive data. –Novem Linguae (talk) 10:35, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
• Option B, we trust CUs to do this for pretty much everyone on the project; I can't think of a single reason why we couldn't trust them to do it in elections. Assuming they're happy to do so, of course? --DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:48, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
• Option C. I think it would be acceptable to have local checkusers do it, but if stewards are able and willing I think that'd be preferable, as has been the consensus for many years of ArbCom elections. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 10:51, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Q5 Discussion

Q6: Voter guides (main election page linking to unofficial guides)

For future administrator elections, should Misplaced Pages:Administrator elections link to unofficial voter guides?

• Option A - No. (current)
• Option B - Yes. A sentence similar to An unofficial list of voter guides may be found at Category:Misplaced Pages administrator elections 2024 voter guides. will be placed on the page.
• Option C - Yes. A list of voter guides will be maintained on the page (directly or via transclusion).

Q6 Survey

• Option B. Especially in large elections such as the 32-candidate election we just had, voter guides are very useful for helping to gather information on the candidates. Obfuscating a good tool doesn't seem necessary to me. Linking to the category should be sufficient -- we don't need to advertise voter guides more heavily by listing or transcluding them on the actual page. –Novem Linguae (talk) 10:38, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
• A. Unlike arbitrator elections, the candidates aren't running against each other, there's no set amount of seats to fill, and voting for or against a particular candidate doesn't hurt or help the others. There is no legitimate reason to make voters' scrutiny more difficult by directing them to pages besides the main discussion page, and no reason at all except to game the discussion limits, or perhaps self-aggrandizement on the parts of guide writers. Put your discussion on the candidacy pages where it belongs. —Cryptic 10:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Q6 Discussion

Q7: Voter guides (non-main election page linking to unofficial guides)

For future administrator elections, what shall the rules be regarding other links to unofficial voter guides?

• Option A - May be linked from any election-related page (such as talk pages, discussion phase pages, etc.)
• Option B - May not be linked from any election-related page (such as talk pages, discussion phase pages, etc.)

Q7 Survey

• B. Exactly the same question and issues as Q6. —Cryptic 10:42, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
• Option A. Seems fine to link to voter guides. If someone wants to ask a question of the candidate during the discussion phase such as I noticed in this voter guide that it says X. Can you clarify if that is true / what your thoughts are on that?, I think that's reasonable. Same thing if a voter wants to say in a comment that I read in this voter guide that candidate did Y, and I am concerned about it.. –Novem Linguae (talk) 10:44, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Q7 Discussion

Q8: Voter guides (official guides)

For future administrator elections what shall the rule be regarding official voter guides?

• Option A - No official voter guide shall be produced (current)
• Option B - An official voter guide shall be produced, containing only a pre-agreed set of factual statistics

Q8 Survey

• If official stats are to be provided, provide them on the candidacy pages where they're most likely to be seen. —Cryptic 10:43, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
• Option A. I don't think an official voter guide is necessary. It could become a maintenance burden for election administrators to have to publish this. Perhaps best to crowd-source it to the folks that do unofficial voter guides. –Novem Linguae (talk) 10:45, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Q8 Discussion

Q9: Suffrage requirements

Who may vote in future administrator elections?

• Option A - Use the Arbitration Committee elections suffrage criteria: created their account over 2 months before the election, have 150 mainspace edits by 1 month before the election, have 10 live edits in the year running up to 1 month before the election, not be sitewide blocked during the election, not be vanished, not be a bot, and not have already voted with this or another account. (current)
• Option B - Use the Requests for adminship suffrage criteria: SecurePoll will be programmed to require, at the time an editor attempts to cast a vote, that they be extendedconfirmed on English Misplaced Pages, not be sitewide blocked on English Misplaced Pages, and not be a bot. Additionally, scrutineers will remove any duplicate votes, sockpuppet votes, or vanished account votes.

Q9 Survey

• Option B - Originally I think the AELECT proposal just copied WP:ACE to copy an existing process. But we have discovered that the ACE suffrage criteria is complicated, and requires a specialized user to spend hours running a script, and then the data from that script has to be imported into SecurePoll. This process is inefficient and creates a bus factor. It would be much easier on the back end to switch to Option B and just require voters to be extended confirmed. This also aligns the suffrage criteria with RFA. –Novem Linguae (talk) 10:49, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
• B. I prefer this in principle, but in light of Novem's comments it's a no-brainer. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 10:52, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Q9 Discussion

I have no strong preference here - both methods seem similarly trivial to game, if that's what we're trying to avoid - but there's plenty of people able and willing to generate the list of eligible voters. I'm one of them. The idea that there's sort of insurmountable technical problem and that we won't ever be able to have elections again if Cyberpower678 stops wanting to it shouldn't be a factor. —Cryptic 11:01, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Q10: Minimum vote requirement (minimum supports)

Should there be a minimum vote requirement to elect a candidate?

• Option A - no requirement. (current)
• Option B - require 20 supports minimum to pass
• Option C - require 50 supports minimum to pass
• Option D - require 100 supports minimum to pass

Q10 Survey

• Option A - We had absolutely no problem achieving a reasonable quorum in the last election (the average number of support+opposes per candidate was 385, and the lowest any candidate received was 318). Hypothetically, let's say we had an election where only 20 people participated. Even then, I still think that the support percentage required to pass (currently 70%) would prevent unqualified candidates from getting elected. Therefore I think any quorum requirement just adds unnecessary complexity to the process. –Novem Linguae (talk) 10:53, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
• Option B There were concerns expressed in the first election of a hypothetical candidate getting through with very few support votes, on the basis of absence of against votes. Personally I think that's unfounded, but to address these concerns a (low) minimum number could be required. --DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:57, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
• Option D or C, I guess, as a failsafe to ensure genuine consensus; it doesn't add complexity when it's not an issue. (No RfA candidate has passed with fewer than 100 supports since the WP:RFA2015 reforms, and the last one with fewer than 50 was in 2011.) But I agree this will probably never be a problem. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 10:59, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Q10 Discussion

Q11: Minimum vote requirement (minimum supports and abstentions)

Should there be a requirement to receive more support votes than abstentions in order to pass?

• Option A: No (current)
• Option B: Yes

Q11 Survey

• Option A - We had absolutely no problem achieving a reasonable quorum in the last election (the average number of support+opposes per candidate was 385, and the lowest any candidate received was 318). Hypothetically, let's say we had an election where only 20 people participated. Even then, I still think that the support percentage required to pass (currently 70%) would prevent unqualified candidates from getting elected. Therefore I think any quorum requirement just adds unnecessary complexity to the process. –Novem Linguae (talk) 10:54, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
• Option A. This is a bridge too far: it would hobble genuinely uncontroversial candidates (just look at the numbers in previous ArbCom elections), and it could even create perverse incentives to abstain rather than oppose. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 11:03, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
• A. B makes abstentions not be abstentions anymore - we go from having options of "yes", "don't care", and "no" to "yes", "no", and "no way". —Cryptic 11:04, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Q11 Discussion

Q12: Call for Candidates phase duration (when signups open)

When should candidates sign up to stand in an election?

• Option A: Nomination window - candidates may nominate themselves only during a specified window (current)
• Option B: Open sign up - candidates may nominate themselves at any time up to the deadline

Q12 Survey

• Option A - Worked fine in the last election. The advantage of a sign up window over option B is that 1) it prevents folks from signing up and then being inactive at the time of the election, and 2) it reduces the amount of time the candidacy is public (reducing candidate stress). If one of the RFCs above about only having X candidates per election passes, and if we get into a situation where there are too many candidates, it will be especially important to not have inactive candidates on the list. –Novem Linguae (talk) 11:01, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
• B seems harmless. Option A is manifestly unfair if any of the choices involving sign-up order in Q3 are selected - who gets to run would depend on when the sign-up period starts. Even changing the start of the candidacy phase as in Q14C doesn't fix this; if the one or two times in a year it opens at a reasonable time in your time zone happens to be during your busiest season at work, you're still out of luck. —Cryptic 11:08, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Q12 Discussion

Q13: Call for Candidates phase duration (what future elections can be signed up for)

If Q12 option B (open sign up) is chosen, for which elections should nominations be accepted?

• Option A: Only the next scheduled election (current)
• Option B: The next scheduled election and the election after that
• Option C: The next scheduled election and the following two elections
• Option D: For any future election.

Q13 Survey

• Option A - Worked fine in the last election. The advantage of a sign up window over longer options is that 1) it prevents folks from signing up and then being inactive at the time of the election, and 2) it reduces the amount of time the candidacy is public (reducing candidate stress). If one of the RFCs above about only having X candidates per election passes, and if we get into a situation where there are too many candidates, it will be especially important to not have inactive candidates on the list. –Novem Linguae (talk) 11:03, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Q13 Discussion

Q14: Call for Candidates phase duration (time of day to open)

If Q12 option A (a nomination window) is chosen, at what time of day should it open?

• Option A: Not important. Pick a time for that particular election in advance, and stick to it. (current)
• Option B: The window should always open at the same time (e.g. 00:00 UTC)
• Option C: The window should open at a different time of day each election (e.g. move forward 6 hours).

Q14 Survey

• Option A - Seems like a non-issue. The call for candidates phase is currently a week long, so the time of day that it opens and closes shouldn't be an obstacle for anyone. Even if they work 5 days a week, they will still have 2 days out of the 7 days to submit their candidacy. It is unlikely the time of day would be a factor. –Novem Linguae (talk) 11:06, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Q14 Discussion

Q15: Candidate ordering

How should candidates be ordered on the candidate page and in the SecurePoll software?

• Option A: Chronological by signup date on call for candidates page, random in SecurePoll (current)
• Option B: Chronological by signup date
• Option C: Random
• Option D: Alphabetical

Q15 Survey

Q15 Discussion

Q16: Discussion phase length (length in days)

How long should the discussion phase be?

• Option A – 3 days, prior to the voting phase (current)
• Option C – 5 days, prior to the voting phase
• Option E – 7 days, prior to the voting phase
• Option E2 – 7 days, concurrent with the voting phase
• Option F – 10 days, including the 7-day voting phase
• Option G – 14 days, including the 7-day voting phase

Q16 Survey

Q16 Discussion

Q17: Discussion phase length (overlap with voting phase)

If Q16 options F or G are chosen, shall formal questions and answers on candidate pages continue during the voting phase?

• Option A – No (current)
• Option B – Yes, additional formal questions and answers are permitted.
• Option C – Further questions may be permitted but candidates are not obliged to answer them.

Q17 Survey

Q17 Discussion

Q18: Supervising the election

What shall the administrator elections page say about who supervises the process?

• Option A - The process is supervised by the bureaucrats. (current)
• Option B - The process is supervised by the electoral commission, in consultation with the community.
• Option C - The process is supervised by the electoral commission, currently consisting of Novem Linguae, in consultation with the community.
• Option D - Delete the bureaucrat sentence, and do not replace with anything.

Q18 Survey

Q18 Discussion

• Electoral commission currently links to Hyperlink. It would be better if the proposal specified how the commission would be chosen. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 11:07, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Q19: Participating in administrator elections multiple times

Are unsuccessful candidates from an admin election allowed to reapply for adminship at a subsequent admin election?

• Option A: Yes (current)
• Option B: Yes, but not the immediately following one
• Option C: Yes, but there should be a limit to the number of times a candidate can run
• Option D: No, any future requests for adminship must go through standard RFA.
• Option E: Yes, but not if they have run either in an election or in a standard RFA in the last 3 months.

Q19 Survey

Q19 Discussion

Q20: Election frequency (how often)

Ideally, how often should administrator elections be held?

• Option A – Every year
• Option B – Every six months
• Option C – Every three months
• Option D – Every two months
• Option E – Every month

Q20 Survey

Q20 Discussion

Q21: Election frequency (relationship with number of candidates)

Shall the election run based on the number of candidates that sign up?

• Option A – No, regularly scheduled elections should run regardless of the number of candidates. The election is only skipped if there are zero candidates.
• Option B – Yes, regularly scheduled elections should run only if the maximum number of candidates has been reached, otherwise the election is skipped.
• Option C – Yes, regularly scheduled elections should run only if some other minimum threshold (write-in your number) of candidates has been reached, otherwise the election is skipped.

Q21 Survey

Q21 Discussion

Q22: Support and oppose section

Should a section be added to the Candidate nomination page in which brief, reasoned expressions of support/opposition can be voluntarily made after voting opens?

• Option A: No (current)
• Option B: Yes

Q22 Survey

• oppose kinda feel like that defeats the purpose. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 11:02, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Q22 Discussion

• Misplaced Pages requests for comment