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Revision as of 18:03, 11 January 2025 editTonyTheTiger (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, File movers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers401,264 edits reply← Previous edit Revision as of 00:07, 12 January 2025 edit undoNarutolovehinata5 (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers54,737 edits commentNext edit →
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:::::I would've said the same things had this been a nomination for an American player. It's weird for you to bring up an American bias when at least half of the people involved in this discussion are not American. – 🌻 ] (] &#124; ]) 15:30, 11 January 2025 (UTC) :::::I would've said the same things had this been a nomination for an American player. It's weird for you to bring up an American bias when at least half of the people involved in this discussion are not American. – 🌻 ] (] &#124; ]) 15:30, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
::::::I have surely nominated over 100 American basketball players, many with less interesting hooks than this. The American bias is not a statement about the reviewers, but rather about the content that is favored on ENG wikipedia. Misplaced Pages favors American content like news shows favor stories about Trump. It does matter whether the news station is pro Trump or anti Trump.-] <small>(] / ] / ] / ] / ])</small> 18:03, 11 January 2025 (UTC) ::::::I have surely nominated over 100 American basketball players, many with less interesting hooks than this. The American bias is not a statement about the reviewers, but rather about the content that is favored on ENG wikipedia. Misplaced Pages favors American content like news shows favor stories about Trump. It does matter whether the news station is pro Trump or anti Trump.-] <small>(] / ] / ] / ] / ])</small> 18:03, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I have to agree with Hilst here. It's not about an American or non-American bias, but rather if it's a hook that is likely to attract general readership regardless of location. For what it's worth, when I review hooks for interest, if I feel that the hook will only appeal to Americans, I bring that up. There's also been a pushback against hooks that focus on "obscure American sports terminology" so that's also another factor. ] (] · ]) 00:07, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
*{{ping|Narutolovehinata5|Sims2aholic8|AirshipJungleman29|Theleekycauldron}} Is this listed correctly. Maybe the reason it is not getting moved to a queue is that it is not showing as verified on the table.-] <small>(] / ] / ] / ] / ])</small> 05:28, 11 January 2025 (UTC) *{{ping|Narutolovehinata5|Sims2aholic8|AirshipJungleman29|Theleekycauldron}} Is this listed correctly. Maybe the reason it is not getting moved to a queue is that it is not showing as verified on the table.-] <small>(] / ] / ] / ] / ])</small> 05:28, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
*] Given the lack of agreement regarding a hook and how this is the oldest nomination on WP:DYKN and timed out almost two weeks ago, it may be time to put this nomination out of its misery. ] (] · ]) 00:07, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
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{{Pending DYK biographies}} {{Pending DYK biographies}}

Revision as of 00:07, 12 January 2025

DYK toolbox

Oscar Goodman (basketball)

( ) Moved to mainspace by TonyTheTiger (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 366 past nominations.

TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:23, 5 November 2024 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: Done.

Overall: Covered for newness, length, sourcing, neutrality, is plagiarism-free, and the hook is cited and interesting. QPQ done. Good to go on this one! Sims2aholic8 (talk) 18:03, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

  • What's a "global basketball tournament 1st team all-tournament honoree"? theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:22, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
    • Goodman has participated in three FIBA sanctioned tournaments. The first was just a regional competition for countries in Oceania. The second was a tournament for countries in Asia (and/including Oceania). The third was for countries around the world. I use the term global to mean a tournament open to worldwide/global contestants. Such tournaments select honorary teams to recognize the best performers in the tournament. These teams are called all-tournament teams and the players chosen are honorees. Sometimes the tournament will select a best five (the first team) and a next best five (the second team).-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:05, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
This has likely not been promoted because the "global ... honoree" bit is pretty indecipherable. TonyTheTiger, would it be possible for you to compose a new hook? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:56, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
would changing global to worldwide be satisfactory?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 02:37, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
Haven't checked the article, but the above wording should address the ambiguity given the context provided. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 05:35, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
@TonyTheTiger: Since the nomination is already two months old (meaning DYKTIMEOUT could apply to this nomination) and there have been concerns about "obscure US sports terminology" on DYK, maybe you can reword ALT1 slightly to make it clear what "all-tournament honoree" means? I can imagine that reviewers, and maybe readers, might have a hard time understanding what "all-tournament" means, so a more generalist wording might be in order here. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:58, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
The article itself is approved, just not the hook. ALT2 is not suitable as it includes a phrase in parentheses, which is discouraged per WP:DYK200. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:54, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
Frankly, that doesn't really appear to address the interest concerns ("all-tournament"? "top 5 team honoree"?) Maybe another editor can suggest a workshopped wording. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:33, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
Normally I'd think it was okay, but given how close Australia and New Zealand are (both geographically and historically), it seems less interesting than it normally would. Maybe AirshipJungleman29 or Sims2aholic8 could chime in? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:14, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
I get your point, but also from Canberra to New Plymouth it's about 1,400 miles (2,250km), so it's not exactly "close". It's not exactly the same as the span of the United States or Europe but it's comparable, and I think living that far away from home as a teenager is fairly impressive. I'm happy to defer here though if there is strong feeling elsewhere that this fact is not interesting enough. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 13:20, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
I suppose ALT6 or ALT7 are safer options. I don't think ALT5 really solves the issue: normally ALT4 by itself would have been fine, it's just that Australia and New Zealand are so close culturally and politically that it doesn't seem as surprising. It's like saying an American spent some time in Canada. If it had been instead, for example, Brazil to the US or vice-versa, maybe. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:06, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
Having grown up in Buffalo, New York, I don't really buy the America-Canada comparison. This is more like a teenager who grew up in Puerto Rico and had to go back and forth to train his skills in Miami at age 15. However, ALT7 makes a similar point to many of the rejected alts (up to ALT3) above.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:59, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
While ALT7 and ALT8 are okay to me (I'm not sure to other reviewers), I have to be frank in that ALT6 doesn't seem interesting to broad audiences. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 05:43, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
If 7 & 8 are OK, are we good to go?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:59, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
Yeah, ALT6 is pretty boring. Unless he joined the national basketball team at 9-years-old or something, ALT7 is also not that interesting (this recent age-related hook got just over 1700 views, so general audiences probably won't care about this hook). ALT8 is kinda just meh, I don't see it getting huge numbers. It might be best to just cut our losses and DYKTIMEOUT this one. – 🌻 Hilst (talk | contribs) 14:32, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
I have listed dozens of American basketball players with less interesting hooks. I don't think I have ever done an Asian before and definitely not a Kiwi. I have heard about American bias. As an American who writes mostly about Americans, I never really paid much attention. I feel bad for the folks down under. I will go back to American basketball players where I can list any smoe without problem.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:09, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
I would've said the same things had this been a nomination for an American player. It's weird for you to bring up an American bias when at least half of the people involved in this discussion are not American. – 🌻 Hilst (talk | contribs) 15:30, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
I have surely nominated over 100 American basketball players, many with less interesting hooks than this. The American bias is not a statement about the reviewers, but rather about the content that is favored on ENG wikipedia. Misplaced Pages favors American content like news shows favor stories about Trump. It does matter whether the news station is pro Trump or anti Trump.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:03, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
I have to agree with Hilst here. It's not about an American or non-American bias, but rather if it's a hook that is likely to attract general readership regardless of location. For what it's worth, when I review hooks for interest, if I feel that the hook will only appeal to Americans, I bring that up. There's also been a pushback against hooks that focus on "obscure American sports terminology" so that's also another factor. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:07, 12 January 2025 (UTC)
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