Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 16:09, 22 May 2007

Wiley protocol

There is a new page, Wiley protocol, which should be used to directly address that particular type of BHRT, rather than using either Wiley's own page, or the BHRT page. Thought you'd be interested. WLU 19:46, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Talk page

Please read the talk page guidelines. WLU 20:00, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Picture

If you are actually Wiley's husband, or have regular access to her, you may want to consider uploading a picture of her to the Wikimedia commons so it can be posted on her main page in any language. Alternatively, you could upload it to english wikipedia alone, through the upload file link in the toolbox just below the search bar.

WLU 20:00, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Conflict of interest advice

If you have a close relationship with the subject of an article, I strongly recommend that you raise any concerns the article's talk page, and refrain from making contentious edits to the article itself. Jehochman (/_contrib) 05:37, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

The other contributor also has a conflict of interest - she is the webmaster of a site that is not only hostile to the subject PERSON (she doesn't understand the actual issues), but she also adds entries that are deliberately misleading.

Neil Raden 18:24, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Please explain what actions I should take against a malicious editor. Neil Raden 20:57, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Archiving and sockpuppeting

Note that though the removal of warnings from your talk page is not prohibited, it is preferrable to archive page content.

Also note that the actions of User:72.205.193.253 strongly hint towards sock puppetry, and can a) potentially extend a block and b) result in an ip address being blocked in addition to a user. It is people who are blocked, not accounts.

If you have a dispute with another editor or editors, you should read the dispute resolution policy. In general, policy is very helpful for answering most questions, I encourage you to familiarize yourself with these policies and policies in general. Arguments geared towards policy rather than people are much more useful and convincing to regular editors. Also note that in general, the {{helpme}} template will get you a quick response to questions (here). WLU 00:19, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Legal Threats

I recognize that you sent me two emails. I am not an administrator, so cannot unblock you. Your email to me contained a continuing legal threat. I very much doubt any administrator will unblock you until you retract all legal threats against Misplaced Pages and Misplaced Pages volunteers. If you have problems with people pushing POV on an article related to your client, you need to follow the appropriate processes which are laid out in the conflict of interest policy. Right now you are behaving like an angry mastodon (read this too), hurting your own interests. Jehochman (/_contrib) 12:43, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I have read all of these materials. I am acting on behalf of T.S. Wiley, my wife, to insure that the mischief of Debv and her colleagues not besmirch her reputation. I've read that a living person is not in a COI situation if they are correcting misstatements and fabrications about themselves. That is my role here, and I never concealed it. Neil Raden 05:51, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I never (meant to) threaten Misplaced Pages or its administrators, only Deborah Vanderstadt who has continued to slander T.S. Wiley in every venue she can reach. Look at the history - she removed Wiley's scientifc papers on the thin premise that the phrasing was clumsy. She vastly overstated the experience of the doctors who signed Erika Schwartz' letter. Again, check the history. There is no balance to what she does and no other person to police it except me. Neil Raden 05:55, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

By all means, check the history. I didn't say that the phrasing was clumsy. I said, "I don't object to this per se but it feels terribly awkward. Add 'Credentials' section maybe?". It was not inappropriate content IMO, just awkward in its placement. So I copied the sentence into the talk page for discussion. Then you created a 'Credentials' section and put the sentence there (without discussion). And in response I did nothing of course. Because it was simply an out of place sentence and I wanted to know what others thought should be done with it.

I respectfully suggest that you look up the concept of "slander" before calling a lawyer.

As for "vastly overstated the experience of the doctors who signed Erika Schwartz' letter," I honestly have no idea what you are referring to. I don't think anyone else does either. Please provide a link. This will help others understand your grievances, give me a chance to answer your accusation (which is only fair), and help avoid any misperceptions that you might find undesirable.

(FWIW, I've since had a productive conversation with Jehochman which has convinced me that it would be better for Nraden and me to refrain from making non-trivial edits to the main pages, and confine our contributions to the talk pages.) --Debv 08:14, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

And the mastadon article is really cute, but you don't know what you're dealing with here. There is no compromise, Debv will do anything to destroy Wiley. It's like Bosnia here. We need a peacekeeping force. Neil Raden 05:58, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I have been away from my computer and unable to answer you until now. You have sent me an email that I believe indicates you still are not rescinding your earlier legal threat. It is your right to use the legal system, and to inform others of your intent to do so. However, the privilege of editing Misplaced Pages cannot be exercised at the same time that such legal warnings are outstanding. It appears that you wish to do both, so I am not going to unblock you at this time. What it would take for me to unblock you is a statement like this:

"I hereby declare all previous legal warnings I have made on Misplaced Pages to be null and void. I have no intent of initiating legal action on behalf of myself or anyone else, including T. S. Wiley; against the Wikimedia foundation, its trustees or employees, or any Wikimedia users, including User:Debv. I will refrain from making any further legal warnings or threats on Misplaced Pages or any other Wikimedia projects."

Short of that, I cannot unblock you, as you are still in violation of WP:NLT, which we consider non-negotiable policy. You need to make such a statement here on this talk page, which you can still edit while you are blocked. At that time, you may contact me by email or use the {{unblock}} template to get another admin to review your unblock request (see WP:UNBLOCK for more detail). ··coelacan 07:47, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I cannot agree to that statement because I reserve the right to take legal action against Debv for her actions beyond Misplaced Pages, through her libelous website WileyWatch and her independent activities. Suppose I were having a problem on Misplaced Pages with someone with whom I had serious grievances? In what kind of logic would I have to agree to refrain from acting against them outside the boundaries of Misplaced Pages? I will reluctantly agree to refrain from taking legal action against her for actions on Misplaced Pages as there appears to be adequate means to redress greivances. If that is satisfactory, then I will post the statement when you say so.Neil Raden 03:20, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

coelacan. please respond to my note above. I would like to be unblocked. And so long as others here abide by the suggestion that those with a COI limit their edits to the discussion page, I will do the same. WLU, your assistance please, coelacan has not been very responsive. Neil Raden 01:11, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

By my appraisal, it seems you are still attempting to employ the language of legal threats ("I reserve the right etc.") while editing Misplaced Pages. Our policy is very clear; you cannot do both. From WP:NLT: "If you must take legal action, we cannot prevent you from doing so. However, we require that you do not edit Misplaced Pages until the legal matter has been resolved to ensure that all legal processes happen via proper legal channels." I could be wrong in my reading of the policy; I will ask other admins to review this. ··coelacan 12:08, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

You are mistaken. I have offered to remove my legal threat for anything debv does here, in Misplaced Pages. According to the policy, you have no reason to continue the block. There is no reason for Misplaced Pages to restrict my legal rights elsewhere because they don't affect the process here. I have greivances against this editor for her actions in other venues. Debv has boundless antipathy for Wiley uses every venue to belittle her. If and when her actions cross the line and become actionable, I will pursue remedies. But I am agreeing to waive that here. Please respond promptly. Neil Raden 06:11, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Result of the discussion thus far is to not unblock. Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#after legal threats, unblock-maybe review (static link) ··coelacan 23:07, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Advice

Advice for both sides of this controversy: Take your issues to the press. If you can get your perspective published in a reliable source, somebody here can include that material, with a reference to the source, in the Misplaced Pages article. I suggest you befriend editors who are interested in working on the articles and help them by providing sources that they can use. Keep in mind that we will cover all sides of a controversy and ultimately it is up to the reader to decide which side makes a better case. If you have strong case, you should have no fear of this situation. Jehochman (/_contrib) 12:50, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Further advice - "We need a peacekeeping force." If you are serious about this, you should move forward in the steps of conflict resolution. This is not the place to play out a personal war. You may also want to use proxies to manage contributions to the page. WLU 14:01, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Help?

Do you still require assistance? If so, I would rather do so via wikipedia as I actually use it more than my e-mail account. Your talk page is on my watchlist, so I will know if you reply here. I am unaware of the content of your e-mails to other users, so you will have to fill me in on any relevant details. Also, if you wish to be unblocked, you MUST read up on the policies that are being cited when you are blocked. I have found that 90% of my concerns and questions are answered. I can not help or advocate for you if it violates policy. I say this as a statement of fact, not to disuade you (and based on you apparently not reading policy I have cited in the past). If both yourself and Debv read and followed policy, almost 100% of your conflicts on wikipedia would be resolved (but probably half of your contributions would disappear as well for failing WP:RS). The unfortunate fact is that the lack of publications and sources for the Wiley Protocol limits what can realistically be included on the pages.

Anyway, post requests or questions here, I'll respond as quickly and best I can.

Final note, I don't know what you are referring to re: the Darwin comment. I need a diff! WLU 14:21, 13 May 2007 (UTC)