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Revision as of 01:26, 25 May 2007

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 There have been huge disputes over the naming of this article. Per multiple discussions, yoghurt has been established as the spelling to use, most often due to lack of consensus. Please, barring a change in the rules of the Manual of Style, avoid bringing up the spelling as redundancy has already aggravated some users.

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Name of article

I was told that user Danielfolsom violated Misplaced Pages policy (or guidelines or whatever) by engaging in a concerted "get out the vote" effort.

Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/Danielfolsom. Focus in particular on the period around 2007-05-16T02:01:25.

I was surprised that so many of the people who voted against changing to the sensible name (Yogurt) both 1) always show up on votes where they can keep a Commonwealth or British spelling (like Jooler), and 2) gave, as reasons, things that didn't make sense. (Note, I was also contacted about this vote, though I had already seen it.)

I don't think punitive action should be taken against Danielfolsom, but the name issue should be dealt with fairly. The reason the issue keeps coming up is that the current name doesn't make sense. The solution isn't to get your orthographic anti-American friends together to shut down the polling process, but to take the question of the right name seriously. --Cultural Freedom talk 2007-05-23 18:02 18:02, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't want to censor any comments, so I'll leave it here, but I urge people not to respond to this: we've already wasted too much time talking about names. Sorry Cultural Freedom. —METS501 (talk) 18:06, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

(No need for "sorry," I understand where you're coming from, though I disagree.) I urge people not to allow disgruntled tyrants to close down discussion on something that hasn't been allowed to reach its proper conclusion. If we address the question seriously, and without violating any Misplaced Pages guidelines, the issue can be put to rest once and for all, because it will have been put to rest in the right way. If we, on the other hand, allow irrational people obsessed with their favorite spellings to break rules and/or violate basic protocols of reasoned discourse, WP is harmed. --Cultural Freedom talk 2007-05-23 18:15 18:15, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I support reopening discussion, the whole discussion efforts were blindsided by impropriety as soon as Danielfolsom began to manipulate the straw poll, absolutely childish. --65.206.50.97 18:43, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but it will not happen. We have debated many, many, many times, and we're not doing it again. Please, just work on improving this article or another. —METS501 (talk) 18:52, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I also support reopening the discussion and completely agree with Cultural Freedom's argument above. It is a hallmark of Misplaced Pages that decisions, through consensus, are ultimately made based on logic and reason. That has not happened here because of the "disgruntled tyrants". All of the logic and reason with respect to the naming of this article supports the most common name used for this subject, and original name of this article: yogurt. Anyone who genuinely wants the debate to end would support the name change, which is consistently shown to be the opinion shared by the majority of editors involved in these polls. --Serge 20:20, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Wait a second - what policy did I violate - I went through each previous discussion and just told people that voted that there was a discussion - I alreted both people that voted for yogurt and youghurt. That's absolute B.S. that your pushing there - Misplaced Pages is not a democracy - there are no votes, only discussions - so even if I did do a "get out the vote" thing, it wouldn't matter. Because you said exactly that I violated WP policy because I did a "get out the vote" thing, then I can assume that you don't have a specific policy to back you up.danielfolsom 22:42, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Second - per Misplaced Pages's policy on Consensus - you can't just do another discussion to try and get consensus - so you trying to push another debate is really worthless, because obviously anything could be reverted per policy.danielfolsom 22:43, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Wow I'm not even done - just to let you know IP address - A) again, WP is not a democracy, it was not a straw poll but a discussion, per WP:NOT, B) just out of curiousity - who are you? Because I noticed that the comment you just made was your first edit. Ever. So frankly either your talking about things that you probably don't understand - which by the way is "absolutely childish", or you forgot to sign in, or your acting as a sockpuppet - because no one's first edit is on a talk page.danielfolsom 22:47, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh and ahh ... one more thing. There's a huge difference between policy and guidelines - and the fact that you don't know the difference throws your argument out the window.danielfolsom 22:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

K Really now last but most important thing - did you tell the guy who told you about the debate that he violated WP Policy - because he did the exact same thing i did, only I did it to more people.danielfolsom 23:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

This is ridiculous. The discussion to move this article is closed as yet another no consensus for the move. In return, some of those who wanted it moved describe those who voted oppose as "disgruntled tyrants". Furthermore, a claim is made that those who opposed the move had no merits to their arguments, and that if they truly wanted to end the arguments about it they would support the move. We apparently fail to see that the American English spelling is the "right" way, and we are accused of Anti-Americanism. The person closing the debate is accused of closing it too early (apparently 6 days of debate isn't enough). Finally, the person who laboriously went through the past debates about this naming change and notified all voters of the new debate is accused of "manipulating the straw poll" somehow, even though he notified people on both sides of past arguments. If you feel that all these absences of respect for other Wikipedians is alright, then you need to take a good, hard look at yourself. - Mark 07:01, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Furthermore, Cultural Freedom isn't explaining what's more "sensible" about the other spelling. The point of the AmE/BrE ceasefire is that both spellings are perfectly sensible, and that's why we need to stop arguing about it. Nobody will be remotely confused, misled, or misinformed by either title, so let it die, already. -GTBacchus 15:03, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

1) What's more sensible about the "Yogurt" spelling has already been explained. 2) "Letting it die" is not the appropriate word choice. It was "killed" by an active effort on the part of Daniel_Folsom to gather votes from people he knows always unthinking vote against American spelling.

What I'm suggesting is that we have a serious discussion about this. We should not let orthographic imperialist tyrants "kill" open, free discussion. We should strive to make Misplaced Pages better. Most of the reasons given for those voting against the change were clearly absurd. Given that Daniel F. made a concerted get out the vote effort and the Oppose votes were NOT overwhelminginly in the majority, I think it's clear the wider WP community would support this move. Let's give them a chance to consider it, fairly this time! Then, if it's been considered in fair way, the result will be more "stable." If tyranny is what's largely responsible for the closing of a discussion, it will just keep coming up again.

--Cultural Freedom talk 2007-05-25 01:26 01:26, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Goat-soybean yoghurt

User:Ecoinus has been adding a section on "Goat-soybean yoghurt", which discusses a (published) research project by a Taiwanese graduate school student. This product does not seem to be commercialized or widely used. Ecoinus, could you please explain why you believe this product is worth mentioning in Misplaced Pages? Without some evidence that it is more than a research project, I don't think it belongs in the WP Yoghurt article. Thanks, --Macrakis 18:25, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

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