Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 03:57, 26 July 2007

Proposed move

I think this great article would be better over at wikibooks. I'll just go ahead and do it sometime after march 2006 unless there is clear objection. --DuLithgow 20:49, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I see the point in using this article to start a wikibook, but I don't see any point in diminishing this article in any way. In any case I'd be glad to help out with a wikibook. Got any interesting ideas for a name? Christiaan 13:13, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't think the name should change, at least not the name of the url, it's too important for search engines that it be meaningful. I would also suggest that this article be trimmed down to describe the concept of straw bale construction, not the how and why - that's not encyclopedic, that's a how-to which belongs over at wikibooks or similar. But how about if I concentrate on moving it, and we'll take it from there. There are big discussions going on on some SB email lists about the best way to distribute information - so I want to move fast while the topis is alive. --DuLithgow 13:14, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough, sounds good. Christiaan 13:35, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I think the information should stay here. Make a copy at wikibooks by all means, but there should also be an article here for people who want to read a quick intro to the subject (which is what this is, after all).

*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 20:22, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, I'm an idiot. I didn't realize the proposed move date was March 2006

*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 20:25, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Expanded, wikified

Ok, I've just added a bunch of material and reorganized a bit. There are tons of beautiful straw-bale houses out there... anyone got time to dig some up? Wordie 15:58, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Environmental considerations

I don't have the resource material handy to write about environmental considerations -- both external (resource consumption) and internal (offgassing? better or worse for people with environmental sensitivities than conventional construction?). Anyone up for the challenge?

Wordie 16:42, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Removal of Luddite link

I removed this link as it doesn't seem to bear any relation to straw bale construction. Christiaan 11.30, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

New Guy

Greetings everyone. I stumbled across this article and was compelled to become a member of Misplaced Pages, though I have been passively using the site for a while. I have been active in the SB community for the past few years, having worked on various stages of several projects in the US. I was one of a crew of four who built a strawbale residence from the muddy foundation trench, to the roof's ridge cap, to the finish coat of plaster. I am currently living in the UK working on a master's degree in Advanced Environmental and Energy Studies at the Centre for Alternative Technology.

I'd like to contribute to and improve this article, but I'm new to the Wiki process so bear with me while I take it slow.

I made a few edits to the external links and listed them in the edit summary. My reason for changing the text of The Straw Bale House to The Canelo Project (leaving the URL the same) is that the Steens' Book, while beautifully done and very influential, is also seriously outdated. The Canelo Project is still thriving and it seemed better to just call the link what it is. All of the Steens' books are available from that site.

I can recommend some other books but I am not familiar with the etiquette re: linking to Amazon or other commercial sites.

I moved The Last Straw Journal to the top, because for up-to-date information there is no better resource. I added Surfin' StrawBale just below it because it is the longest-lasting (and longest) list of links related to straw bale construction that exists.

I moved the two links to the Paso Robles project description together, since they're related. After browsing through both sites, it seems to me that they are detailing a long, ugly dispute between an owner and his former contractor. While the negative aspects and pitfalls of straw bale construction need to be addressed, are these links appropriate? There is really very little information about straw bale construction there.

The dimensions in the materials section are kinda screwy, especially the bulk bales. I'm going to go in and fix what I can; I know that bulk bales are not 3 inches square :)

Straw blocks are cool, and need to be mentioned, but they are not bales, nor is using straw blocks really straw bale construction. Is there a better place to put them?

That's all for now, cheers. Jason Perry 15:37, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

We need to restore some detail to this article

The Wikibooks project is fantastic (though rather optimistic, don't you think?), but there's no reason why we can't have a fair amount of detail on this page. People still want an encyclopaedic summary of information without having to read an entire ebook. El T 18:31, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree entirely. I read the article and thought - is that all they've got to say about it. It seemed lopsided with all those links at the bottom but very limited text. Can't remember what led me to the talk page, but I certainly didn't see the Wikibook link on the main page - my brain filters that kind of stuff out.--PeterR 11:03, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

External link proposal

Dear editors,

I write here at the suggestion of Dirk Beetstra

I would like to suggest that this page http://naturalhomes.org/learning-straw.htm makes a valid contribution to straw bale construction since it enables people to find a straw bale construction course, information that is otherwise very difficult to find. This page, http://naturalhomes.org/naturalhomesmap.htm in addition shows the location of straw bale homes around the world (using google maps) with links (once you click an icon) to the home builders own website.

Can I have your opinions as to the contribution these two links could make?

Regards, Oliver naturalhomes 01:30, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I have read the guidelines for links and suggest for the moment that this DMOZ link replace all the links in this article. http://dmoz.org/Business/Construction_and_Maintenance/Building_Types/Sustainable_Architecture/Straw_Bale_Construction/ However, I believe that links that support or reflect the resurgence of natural building are entirely in keeping with the article. naturalhomes 02:27, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I generally agree with the comments Oliver makes, above. However, I must confess to being unimpressed by the map. I don't know how it is for the British Isles and Europe, but it is woefully inadequate for North America (and almost laughable for Canada). Sunray 06:42, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your support Sunray. I am convinced that a link to the straw bale construction course page (http://naturalhomes.org/learning-straw.htm) is a valuable contribution, not least because it links to most, if not all, of the major learning providers. Similarly a link to the map (which now contains more straw bale buildings) is a central point for people to see the result of the resurgence in this building technique. These resources collectively demonstrate the strength of the construction method around the world and more easily enable prospective self-builders to use the method. So how is this progressed? naturalhomes 01:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I've now had the chance to look over the naturalhomes.org link in detail and do not see any justification for calling it "spam." I would like to see Dirk Beetstra's rationale for this. It is not a commercial link and does not appear to be selling anything. On the other hand, it does provide a wealth of good information about natural building. As I suggested above, it tends to be UK-centric, however, that is not necessarily a bad thing, since so many of the natural building links are US-focussed. I am interested in Dirk's rationale, but as of now, can see no reason for not having this as an external link. I will take a look at the other links to see if they are likewise suitable for the article. Sunray 07:34, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

The question raised by Dirk regarding inclusion of the naturalhomes.org link was discussed at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Spam and resolved. The point was made that users should not add links for organizations they own or control. If they do, it may be seen as advertising. However, in the case of the naturalhomes link, it is not selling a product and it does provide valuable information and resources on straw-bale, that supplements the article (a criterion of WP:EL. I (a neutral party) have therefore added the links (see comment below). Sunray 17:10, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

To clarify, Spamming is about promoting your own site or a site you love, not always about commercial sites nor has to be "selling something". Links to commercial sites are often appropriate. Links to sites for the purpose of using Misplaced Pages to promote a site are not. Specific policy on the conflict of interest issue is Advertising and conflicts of interest. Unfortunatly, the link s not appropriate as it promotes Building Courses and Workshops, many of which require registration and is not a resource about the subject. Again it does not help to expand the article, rather promotes Building Courses and Workshops. Remember this is an encyclopedia, Misplaced Pages is not a directory to Building Courses and Workshops, or an advertisement service for conducting business. Hope that helps clears up the policy issues.--Hu12 03:50, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Groundrules for External links

I've pruned the list, added a commented-out note with some groundrules, and removed the "clean-up" tag. In accordance with the discussion above, I have added the naturalhomes link and map and also the dmoz link. These are good general resources, IMO. I removed several links that didn't seem to meet WP:EL. The one I wasn't sure about was the California Straw Building Association link. I don't find it very content-rich and the main event listed is now in the past. It does give details on a grant (if you are in California), but other than that it has little that isn't provided by other links. Comments? Sunray 17:00, 20 July 2007 (UTC)