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Revision as of 08:29, 13 September 2007

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Hello, Hardyplants, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  --SB_Johnny||_books 14:20, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Mullein

Indeed... it's more a pasture and garden problem than a cultivated field problem. In general though, discussion of weed controls on wikipedia are kept to a minumum. If you're interested in the topic, however, I'm looking for collaborators on the wikibooks versions of these articles; see b:Category:Weed_profiles for the ones I've worked on so far. --SB_Johnny||_books 14:20, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Tepal

Hi Hardyplants. Can I ask about your edits to the page on tepals? The description that you added on 11 December, titled "clean up and clarify" seems to be at odds with the usual definition of a tepal. Do you have links to any material which supports your definition? Thanks. Owl 14:57, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

>Can you be more specific about what you are questioning, I listed two sources on 'additional reading'

The first paragraph of your article refers to tepals as a specific feature of the Magnoliaceae. This is at conflict with several sources online, as well as the previous version of the article on Misplaced Pages. I don't have access to a library at the moment, so I can't check the books you've referenced. I happen to have "Plants: Diversity and Evolution" (Ingrouille and Eddie, Cambridge University Press, 2006) here, however. It is definitely referring to tepals in plants other than magnolias. I find the previous version of the article (http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Tepal&oldid=91340499) to be clearer and more consistent with how other sources seem to be using the word. Perhaps you would like to view that version, and clarify the text as it stands (which is basically your version, I've just tidied up the styling a bit. Oh, and just to note - could you post on my talk page, not my user page, please? I have moved the conversation across. Thanks. Owl 17:09, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I didn't produce the first part but brought it up from the original start of the article. Keep in mind that Magnolia is the proposed fist flowering plant line. I do not believe any modern Magnolia corresponds the first of its kind. I will look at the article and move the first section- since you are right that its a meaning that is rarely used and should not be at the beginning. Hardyplants 17:21, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I still think the earlier version sounds clearer and more authoritative. Please don't be offended, but can I ask if English is your first language? Perhaps we should start with the previous version (link in my post above). What do you think is wrong with that as it stands? If we add back in the paragraph about evolution, do you think that is a fair description of a tepal? Owl 17:42, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi again. I saw your new edits - it was clearer than before, but I'm afraid I still didn't think it was as coherent and clear as I'd expect of an encyclopaedia. I've taken the liberty of editing the page myself. I've started from the earlier version, and tried to add in everything that I thought you were saying. Have a look, and if you think I've missed something that you said, let me know. Thanks. Owl 15:26, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi again, Hardyplants. Someone who wasn't logged in, at IP 209.244.187.83, reverted to your version of the Tepal article. Was this you? I must say I disagree with the revert. If you stand by your version of the article, I would like to take it to the Mediation Cabal, to get a third opinion. Thanks. Owl 22:45, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Embryonic

Hi Hardyplants - Thanks for your productive editing! I came across the page you had started on Embryonic, where you changed it from a redirect to Embryo. There's already quite a good page on plant development (Plant embryogenesis); maybe you could add some of your information to that? It seems to me that Embryonic should go back to forwarding to Embryo, which touches both plant and animal development. What do you think? Cheers, Figma 19:15, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Acanthomintha duttonii

Why did you remove the references from the lead paragraph of Acanthomintha duttonii? Mike Dillon 23:44, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for leaving the references in for your second pass. I think your changes to the lead paragraph have improved readability. Mike Dillon 00:21, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Two things. First, please be more careful with stray line breaks; they make it hard to use the "history" tab to see what has been done to an article by making inline changes look like entire paragraphs were removed. Second, what are you doing with the "" stuff instead of the original references? Were they meant to refer to the Jepson manual? I've assumed that was the case and restored the "ref" syntax. Mike Dillon 02:29, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Your image upload includes statements that the image is copyrighted by the photographer. Has it been released by him? Or what? Great photo, though. KP Botany 03:22, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Looks like it was taken from here. The copyright statement is for non-commercial use ("personal or academic") and requires attribution. The original image uploaded by User:Anlace was incorrectly tagged with a Creative Commons license (unless Anlace is actually John Game and relicensed it himself or was granted a separate license). Also, the image on the CalPhotos site is higher resolution and would be a better source for User:Hardyplants's enlargement than the one uploaded by Anlace. This discussion might be more suited for another talk page... Mike Dillon 04:00, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Wherever the discussion belongs the image must be removed immediately. KP Botany 14:30, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

New article creations

Greetings! Thanks for your recent contributions to the goal of WikiProject Plants (e.g. Pentaphyllacaceae, Sladeniaceae). I was just wondering if you could make an effort to apply our standard format to the articles (see Stylidiaceae for a good example of a starter article with the correct formatting). Specifically, we'd like to see a {{Taxobox}} on each plant taxa article, bold titles (as in, the first mention of the subject of the article), and italicized genus and species names. Let me know if you have any questions about this. Also consider joining us at WP:PLANTS, where we look to other editors interested in botany for help on specific items. Cheers, --Rkitko 16:47, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Stylidium graminifolium

Greetings! I appreciate your enthusiasm for this article, but I had to revert your edits again. I maintained one sentence in the intro that you had contributed, reworded and referenced it, but the other edits introduced grammar mistakes and weren't of any great importance to the context of the article. If you can provide rationale for why these minor changes are necessary, I'll reconsider. Best, --Rkitko 23:33, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Please cease adding back the changes I've reverted and considering discussing this here or at Talk:Stylidium graminifolium. I must also inform you of Misplaced Pages's three revert rule. --Rkitko 00:12, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Regarding this: I am well aware of WP:OWN and I have not yet violated it. I reverted your edits for poor grammar, none of which was really worth correcting instead of reverting since it said essentially the same thing that was in the article before your edit. I then made an effort to contact you to discuss the changes you wished to make to the article but received no reply. I have reworded and referenced one contribution you made and the edit you made concerning flower shape was not reverted. Someone violating WP:OWN would most likely not be keeping some of your contributions in the article. As I suggested above, we should discuss the changes you'd like to see on the article so we can work together on it. Beyond that, I would ask that any major contribution you make to the article be referenced with a source. Review WP:CITE and WP:V for more information. Just out of curiosity, where have you been reading up on this plant? I've gotten nearly every obscure piece of academic literature on it and haven't seen one yet that specifically discusses the germination requirements. The Hort. paper by Darnowski notes that the genus sometimes requires smoke treatments, but S. graminifolium is one of the few that doesn't necessarily require it for germination success. Perhaps a rewording is in order to "highest germination success" or something similar. You can leave a response here, on my talk page, or at Talk:Stylidium graminifolium. Best, --Rkitko 02:07, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Seed photos

You wrote:

Mr. Clark thank you for your response, I have seeds of H. hispanica that I can photograph and add to the page, I can also show the seeds after they take in water- they like many species of salvia and other genera develop a thick gelatinous coat that is interesting. I also have seeds for almost 3,000 species of herbaceous plants and have wondered if it would be worth while adding pictures of them to wikipedia, hate to go threw the work and find that they have no use. Hardyplants 19:45, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I think such photos would be immensely valuable even if not all were used in Misplaced Pages articles. I'm assuming they would be at adequate magnification to see details (and it would be useful to have a scale of some sort in the photo), and that you'd take care not to include species that you believe to be misidentified. Identification of species (or even genera) from their seeds is often difficult, from lack of good reference material.

It would be best to place the photos on so they can be used in Wikipedias in all languages. And post a notice on Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Plants so editors of plant articles will know that the resource is available. I'd start out with a few, to see how much trouble it is and get suggestions from other editors for improving quality.

In short, potentially a really valuable contribution.--Curtis Clark 15:02, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your time in responding, I can take good quality pictures but have had problems with the images being to large 1.5 to 2 mgs. I can take the pictures with a 100 to 1,000 magnification with good resolution, this depends on the size of the seed, Peony species have large seeds but the Lady-slipper Orchid seeds I have are very small. To do it right I will have to construct a box that is lighted on four sides and uses a diffused light source - otherwise Its takes a lot of time to adjust the images with a photo editing program for contrast.

For the vast majority of the seeds I have I am very sure of the IDs, Sometimes I get seeds from Siberia and other Parts of Russia that come to me labeled with obscure names which are sometimes misspelled, its a choir to go threw the data bases to find the synonyms when you have the wrong spelling. Id of those species is tenitiv often, even after growing them out - since there is little info on them in English and no pictures. But its not difficult to see if the seed is in the right family or genus most of the time, but if its the right species thats a different kettle of fish.

Now that spring is here, I will be working a lot, it will take me a few weeks to get set-up. We do not have "spring" here in Minnesota - it goes from winter to summer in a few weeks, especially with the warming trend we are in now because of greenhouse gases and solar output. Here is some samples of picture I have posted already, no seeds. Hardyplants 10:15, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Global warming

The authors of both the letter and of the page in question are pretty clear. It looks to me like the proper use of a primary source, generally speaking (purely descriptive claim, attributed to the source rather than in an editorial voice.) Regardless, though, the inclusion of the material should be discussed as a whole. If you believe the source is inappropriate, by all means argue against its inclusion, but we've never done "disclaimers" like that. Specification of the exact number isn't problematic, of course, an increase in specificity is always good. Seraphimblade 13:45, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

From your somewhat verbose answer I am going to conclude that you did not understand the issue. Simply stated: If Tom says that S=4. And Ken produces a book saying that Tom is wrong. Then Tom produces a article in wikipedia about Ken's book, and says "many think" Tom is wrong and uses a quote from his own web (Toms) page as evidence that Ken is wrong and Tom is thus part of the many that he uses as a reference.

Would it not be proper to state in the page in wikipedia that the page is heavily produced by Tom when the pages uses him as an expert also.

I do not have a problem with the reference as long as those reading the page know that the person being quoited as an expert, is also the one producing the Article.Hardyplants 15:11, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Your conclusion is incorrect. Yes, I understand the issue, that you wish to insert some type of disclaimer that someone being cited has also worked on the article. No, we don't do that. You're welcome to argue that the material is inappropriate to include at all, and you might have a good case for that, but if it's determined that it is appropriate, no disclaimers. Seraphimblade 17:53, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Poison ivy

Yup, that's the way it's done now, although still rather new. When the common name is used for more than one species, and it is something like poison ivy, where the plant is not an ivy, but rather a member of the cashew family, it is hyphenated to indicate it's not an ivy. This issue properly belongs on the talk page of the article, not on my talk page. Please raise it there if you like. KP Botany 23:42, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Association of Members' Advocates/Requests/April 2007/hardyplants

Hi Hardyplants. I am interested in trying to help with your request. If you would like to accept this, please drop me a line at my talk page. Thank you. --Dweller 14:17, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Hello again. Would you prefer me to close the case at AMA, or is it that you would simply prefer a different member to assist you? --Dweller 08:59, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

i wish to drop the case, after giving it much thought I have decided that it is not worth the time. I wished to contribute to the page in question because it already had a good start and I had some more information and some points that would have made it more clear, but its a low priority and other items are more useful to spend time on. If you would like to still look at the issue here is a link http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Stylidium_graminifolium&oldid=126277793 with my edits compared to the other editors page http://en.wikipedia.org/Stylidium_graminifolium My apologies for the slow response. Hardyplants 10:46, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I'll close the case if you wish to drop the case. --Dweller 10:49, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Go ahead and close the case, thank youHardyplants 10:50, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Reporting vandals to WP:AIV

Hi Hardyplants, thanks for your report! In future, please format reports like this: * {{IPvandal|IP Address}} below the User reported section. If you format it otherwise, the bot which removes blocked users from the list gets confused. Don't add new sections - it's all done for you already :) Thanks, and keep fighting the good fight. – Riana_ऋ 14:44, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

An Automated Message from HagermanBot

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Stolon

On 11 May, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Stolon, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--howcheng {chat} 23:54, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Uvularia thing

No, I was just confused, as just before you edited the genus page, you had removed that series of "all caps" names from the image field of a taxobox, and thought you might have hit "paste" when you meant "copy" or something along those lines. Then I went further into the histories of both pages and got even more confused :). --SB_Johnny||_books 08:22, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh by the way, I have small fields of these growing along the creek on my farm. I'll try to get some more pix when they come into bloom. I've never dug them up, but might end up "rescuing" some this year from an area where the tractor will need to go through. --SB_Johnny||_books 10:19, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Bio-star

		The Bio-star
		For your extensive work with plant-related article, I present you with the Bio-star award. Circeus 16:01, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Little context in Thymophylla

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Thymophylla, by another Misplaced Pages user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Thymophylla is very short providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Misplaced Pages:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles.

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Deletion

At the time I deleted the article, it consisted only of an image and a taxobox with no text, and therefore wasn't really an article. It hadn't been edited for an hour, so it didn't look like an article in production, and I had no way of knowing if the creator would ever return to it. It's best keep an article on your word processor until there is enough to survive a speedy deletion.

I'm not sure why I didn't put a reason, presumably I either thought it was self-evident or simply forgot to do so - either way my apologies for that omission.

You said I deleted the picture too. I don't think that is correct. The current image appears to be the one uploaded before the article was deleted, and I don't remember deleting the apparently validly licensed image. Hope this clarifies things, and sorry again for not giving a reason, jimfbleak 05:29, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

WP:AIV Request

Thank you for making a report about 131.172.4.45 (talk · contribs · block log) on Misplaced Pages:Administrator intervention against vandalism. Reporting and removing vandalism is vital to the functioning of Misplaced Pages and all users are encouraged to revert, warn, and report vandalism. However, administrators are generally only able to block users if they have received a recent final warning (one that mentions that the user may be blocked) and they have recently vandalized after that warning was given. The reported user has not yet been blocked because it appears this has not occurred yet. If this user continues to vandalize even after their final warning, please report them to the AIV noticeboard again. No final warning for 131.172.4.45. Left uw-vandal4, but some edits look legit -- wrp103 (Bill Pringle) 04:01, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Stuartia

I've undone your revert to the Stuartia article; it lost far too much new information that I had added (and which in fact supported the spelling as "Stewartia"). As several editors have taken an interest in this article, if you intend to edit it, I would suggest discussing it on the talk page first. MrDarwin 22:51, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Plant articles

Hi Hardyplants - couple of requests as per the wiki Manual of Style - could you use scientific measures on plant pages, not imperial units (incomprehensible to 90% of the world's population); also (re your additions to e.g. Verbascum thapsus) to use spellings relevant to the page (thus American English or Canadian English for American native plants, British English for European native plants, Commonwealth English for Asian plants, etc.). Thanks! - MPF 22:13, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Although MPF perhaps exaggerates the percentage of people who don't comprehend Imperial units, keep in mind that the percentage of people who do comprehend metric units of length, volume, mass, and temperature is even greater, and they are the norm in modern US scientific publications. Imperial units may be provided in parentheses.--Curtis Clark 01:11, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Not good to edit other people's talk page contributions.

See WP:TALK#Others.27_comments . I have reverted your edit as it inserted talk into mine and messed with what I said. If you want that word in the article you are going to have to come up with much better cites than what you have provided to date. I have no problems with him being an atheist but it is an attribute taken out of context for that article. His other attributes that are verifiable are descriptions that are more worthy for inclusion as they are more topical to that particular book article. Your trying to insert one unreferenced word "atheist" is based on your own research or interpretation of the references and how you can apply them to a passing reference that is secondary to the book synopsis. Ttiotsw 00:34, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Go back are read over the refs, its clear those that new of him new he was an atheist:

1. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,748144,00.html?promoid=googlep

::# CANABAL. Handsome as the Hollywood villain of Mexican cinema, His Excellency Tomas Garrido Canabal has been the terror of Catholics as Governor of the State of Tabasco. "What is God?", Canabal is fond of sneering. "Nobody can tell me, but God has cost Mexico billions! We are going to stop that waste." Most people thought Canabal would pop up in the Cardenas Cabinet as Minister of Education, to scourge the pious with fresh assaults of Godless teaching.

Hardyplants 00:46, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Please read what I wrote - "I have no problems with him being an atheist but it is an attribute taken out of context for that article."

Basically your cites do not support the claim of atheism in the context of this article. I am not doubting he is "atheist", what I am doubting is how you are plucking one word that isn't obvious from the cites should be used.

This is like repeatedly calling a plant (e.g. Gorse) an "invasive" species when the context of the article was Gorse in Scottish art and citing New Zealand references to Gorse. No one doubts gorse can be invasive but in a Scottish article indirectly related to the subject ?.Ttiotsw 01:23, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

here we go:

The book is about a anti-religious atheist that eliminates the catholic church from Mexico and his persecution of a tainted priest.. Its generally know that the book uses Garrido Canabal as its arch-type. In real life Garrido Canabal was an atheist that persuced the church in Mexico. so you are saying that the fact that Canabal is an atheist whom persecuted the church in Mexico, in similar fashion to the character in the book, does not relate to the book. The motivation for both the real person and the character in the book is their atheism. Hardyplants 01:55, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Please don't make this personal

Look I don't go around "purging sources" of any kind. I reviewed your sources because I have Religion on my watch list and I noticed the reverts. So I looked into the sources and you know the rest. This is pretty normal editorial behavior and its not personal by any means. Also, if you didn't realize what the guidelines for reliability were then its no big deal. Now you know where to find them. Just as an aside, however, in academia materials such as the ones you used as references would not be deemed reliable either and would not be acceptable sources even in a student paper. At least this is the case in the United States. Again, no worries, just take a look at the guidelines.PelleSmith 03:30, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I know the guidelines, looked at them when a problem came up in another article were some one used there own online blog as a reference and it was voted on that it was a legitimate source. Its Ok I will post some hard cover sources- and I do not mind the questions about clarifying the sources. So do not worry about any hard feelings. Hardyplants 03:48, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

your comments on Talk:Geological history of Earth

your comments- I would cut out 90% of the parts talking about life on earth and move it to its own page, and start with the creation of the soler system and the differences between the earth and other plants. Then move on to covering the two driving forces effecting geology of the earth- the oceans and the water cycle and plate tectonics. SXo basicly I think it would flow better and make more sense in the outline format:

• cause of geologically change: formation of the sun, planet, ocean, plate tectonics weathering etc.
• effects of geologically change
• results of geologically change; change in atmosphere, life, continental drift, mountain building etc.
  

Hardyplants 19:36, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

my comments- as far as i have get from your comments i think you are willing to remove the life on earth section from the article. ummhhh... i think the article specifies a bit about life on earth. i have added that section in order to make it more encyclopedic. the article specifies more about geological timeline and physical features of the earth. thanks, sushant gupta (talk · contribs) 08:26, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

fine i am re-re structuring the page. Sushant gupta (talk · contribs) 08:55, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Goliath

Hi. Since you were taking an interest in some edits I did there (Goliath) recently, you might like to go back and see what I've done since then. I'd value your comments and input. PiCo 12:09, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Randy DuBurke

I have reverted your removal of the ((notability)) tag at the article Randy DuBurke because you left no summery or talk explaining its removal. If you have a rational why the tag is incorrect or if you did some thing else to address the underlying problem please explain it before removing the tag. Thank you. 69.72.7.81 04:35, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

You should get a username here on Misplaced Pages, below is a edit summery

User talk:69.72.2.70

• 22:18, 20 June 2007 (hist) (diff) Shoot (←Replaced page with 'dick')
• 17:05, 20 June 2007 (hist) (diff) Randy DuBurke (added notability tag)

I checked on the notability of Burke on the net and He looked "good" so reverted your edit as more vandalism. Hardyplants 07:04, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

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Project Plants

Hey, you've made a ton of edits on plant articles! Why don't you join ProjectPlants? Aelwyn 09:16, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Lathyrus lanszwertii

I'm trying to understand the situation with this plant, why IPNI lists it as it does, but you seem to be trying to prove something you already know. Can we work towards resolving the situation about why IPNI says what it does, with all of the information, or if you already know what you want to do about it, please just spell out why, so I can understand where you're coming from? When IPNI lists something like this, there is a reason in the literature for it, I would like the article to be accurate--knowing the reason also means we can include information so that our readers won't be confused by what they find. KP Botany 18:15, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I apologize, you had said before that you use horticultural resources, and if I had remembered that I would have understood where you were coming from on this. KP Botany 00:59, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Goliath's armour

Hi. I deleted your link to the Speiser article on ancient armour, for reasons I've described on the talk page. But I do appreciate your input, and I hope you'll continue to monitor what I write in a similar critical fashion. (I'd appreciate any comments you might like to leave on the Talk page regarding my arguments there).PiCo 04:45, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi again. Your addition about the Speiser material was good. I've made an amendment to merge it with the Yadin material. Grateful to know what you think. PiCo 04:52, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I've made a new para on textual variants of the Goliath story. If you have time, I'd appreciate your assessment. As for the Greek armour question, I'm still investigating and considering and will get back on it in due course. (Hope I'm not bothering you with this, but I like to have someone with a critical eye watching what I edit). PiCo 10:52, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your work on the Sumamry section, it's exactly the input I want. I've changed "wounds" to "strikes", which is closer to the textual meaning I think (certainly more in keeping with the KJV "smote", and also to modern translations). It's verse 50 that's the problem: it clearly says "David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and struck the Philistine, and killed him; there was no sword in the hand of David." It seems to have been an interpolation into the original etxt, as it's not in the LXX, and without it there's no ambiguity about how David killed Goliath - stunned him with the stone, then decapitated him. One does wonder what Goliath's armour-bearer was doing all this time.PiCo 12:00, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

There is a problem with the current text, it starts off with Goliath being wounded and then hes dead and then its says he is killed because his head was cut off. To me it looks like what it might have said was David wounds or strikes down Goliath with the stone and David kills him by cutting off his head with Goliaths own sword. Instead we have a text that adds the extra word (kills) or is missing a word that links the second kills to the rest by way of saying this is how David kills Goliath.

I am inclined to believe that the story was told like so -

Thus David 01732 prevailed 02388 over 04480 the Philistine 06430 with a sling and a stone 068, and he struck 05221 the Philistine 06430 and killed 04191 him; but (because) there 0369 was no 0369 sword 02719 in David's 01732 hand 03027. {to kill Goliath}Then David 01732 ran 07323 and stood 05975 over 0413 the Philistine 06430 and took 03947 his sword 02719 and drew 08025 it out of its sheath 08593 and killed 04191 him, and cut 03772 off 03772 his head 07218 with it

. The texts seems to beg for an explanation of how Goliath was killed and implies the stone was not enough to do the job right away. We might never know though unless an older fragment shows up some were. For a modern take on the word smote look at this http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=%D7%A0%D7%9B%D7%94&btnG=Search+ImagesHardyplants 12:29, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

"One does wonder what Goliath's armour-bearer was doing all this time."

what is the job of an armour bearer- to clean and put away and transport the weapons, I think also to help the solder to get dressed, sounds more like a clerk to me If you were a good boss your clerk might sacrife his life for you, on the other hand, if you are hard difficult boss he might be happy to see you face down in the dirt with a stone in your head. Hardyplants 12:41, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Carya aquatica

Thanks, it needs work, but I really don't have the time, and was hoping someone would jump to the rescue. I'm going to unwatch now that you have it. KP Botany 21:40, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Decurrent at AFD

Just in case you hadn't noticed. The debate is here: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Decurrent. Circeus 17:03, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

The link does not justify the quote. Appears to be a Wikipedian's own translation from the French, misusing Whom. Though, if you can live with the grammatical error, and its misleading citation, so can I. Cheers, DBaba 03:26, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Rhabdocline pseudotsugae

Amazing how the urge to expand an article can just spread like that. : ) Nice work btw. IvoShandor 10:15, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Please use talk section on State atheism before reverting.

Even your own source you provided does not state Sunday was eliminated it just says that it had less of a chance of being a holiday. Lenin introduced the Gregorian calendar though subsequently this was altered in bizarre ways to improve production and utilise machinery though as it would happen central planning isn't really up to managing realities. Please reconsider if the text you have added really reflects the sources you are providing as I feel it doesn't. Why I was claiming it is synthesis (in associating it with "state atheism" is that Lenin introduced the Gregorian calendar so the case isn't as clear as the article claims it is and it is original research to grow the scope of what a source says (in this case sticking in the word "eliminate"). Ttiotsw 11:52, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Go back a read it again... it clearly says "In only one respect the five-day week was an unqualified success, from the Soviet point of view. It did help to make people forget Sunday" if Sunday was still around how could they forget it. The week ends were eliminated and staggered five day weeks implemented, this did not work so they moved to a week with out Sundays instead going to a six day week. Since a seven day week is very important in regards to religious holidays and the sabbath and the Lords day- the only real purpose for such an odd work week is to do away with those days. As the article on wikipedia even says. Hardyplants 12:09, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

...and then the source says "it had less of a chance of being a holiday..." but how can it even have any chance of being a holiday at all ?. No, it is still there except it's rarely a day off work. This is why the claim of "elimination" is dubious.

Also what we have is Lenin (I think he was a Marxist and Communist !) introduces the Gregorian calendar and many years later the Government mucks around with it, so even the blanket claims that "State atheism" are unclear. This is once again about "anti clericalism". Ttiotsw 12:17, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Please read WP:STALK before cherry-picking reverts on my edits. Please read the sources too !

You reverted one of my edits from 4 days ago in an article that is meticulously watched by many other editors and has had nearly a dozen changes since my one small change and in which you never (AFAIKS) have edited before. OK I'm not really worried about stalking but your edit summary was "this is unclear and does nor follow the source given.". This doesn't make sense as you have reverted it to say....."in Dawkins's positions, and that the "religion as a virus" ideas have disturbing precedents." and yet the source provided only uses the word disturbing in the sentence, "Dawkins nourishes a disturbing contempt for religious believers.". The word "precedents" is uniquely used in the source as, ...".... the precedents of such medical analogies, applied to certain religious and racial groups, have hardly been innocuous in the history of the 20th century." and this is why I wrote my version which used "innocuous" in it !. Please explain why you have created your own material that says "disturbing precedents" in it when that phrase (and nothing like it) is in the source ? Ttiotsw 12:10, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

simple...your edit made no sense. it was not a direct quote but a summation - go back and read the entire news clip again, your edit only mudded his meaning and I fear deliberately. .Hardyplants 12:26, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

If you want to change it from my version (below) to line up with the literal words and meaning of the source.

John Cornwell in his book Darwin's Angel and elsewhere suggests that there are several lapses of understanding in Dawkins's positions, and that the "religion as a virus" ideas have disturbing precedents.

Then you can change it to "suggests that there are several lapses of understanding in Dawkins's positions, and that the "religion as a virus" ideas have precedent in Nazi Germany."

<http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,2158503,00.html>

" He refers to believers as "faith sufferers", and to himself and like-minded associates as "we doctors". Much as I am convinced that Dawkins deplores the ideology of nazism, the precedents of such medical analogies, applied to certain religious and racial groups, have hardly been innocuous in the history of the 20th century. Nazi ideology subscribed from the very outset to the idea of the German people as a type of anatomy subject to bacilli. It harped on the introduction of undesirable extraneous influences on the healthy societal body, the Volkskorper, behaving like pathogens; analogies of cures, surgery and purging naturally followed. As early as 1925 Hitler lamented the fact that the state did not have the means to "master the disease"

Hardyplants 12:46, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

In regards to stalking, here is what it says and I would like you to show me were this applies?

WP:STALK

Wikistalking refers to the act of following an editor to another article to continue disruption.

The term "wiki-stalking" has been coined to describe following a contributor around the wiki, editing the same articles as the target, with the intent of causing annoyance or distress to another contributor.

This does not include checking up on an editor to fix errors or violations of Misplaced Pages policy, nor does it mean reading a user's contribution log; those logs are public for good reason. Using the edit history of users to correct related problems on multiple articles is part of the recommended practices both for Recent changes patrol (RCP) and WikiProject Spam. The important part is the disruption - disruption is considered harmful. Wikistalking is the act of following another user around in order to harass them.

Hardyplants 13:14, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

The issue is "disruption". I guess you would have to trust me when I say that The God Delusion article is watched very closely from many points of view and if my edit 4 days ago was dubious then it would have been stamped on quickly. It wasn't. I'm hoping it was due to having "innocuous" in the same sentence as medical (innocuous...inoculate ...yup it is bad) but it may be just because people haven't worked out to even bother leaving that ref in at all.

We have an issue with State atheism where you are interpreting a source one way and I another. This is our right but for you to cherry-pick one of my edits from 4 days ago on another separate and reasonably busy article and revert just that one edit with a edit summary referring to reading sources I feel matches the definition of "disruption". You are also now starting a revert war on The God Delusion as you have reverted what another editor has done to your edit - that to others would match the definition of disruption. I'm happy that you look at my edits and there is no problems in WP:STALK with that but please do it carefully as every article has nuances as to what consensus is.

Take what you want on The God Delusion to that article as I'm not editing your changes. Ttiotsw 14:09, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

3RR warning on The God Delusion

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. . I have no idea what the problem is here. You are reverting my edits without regard for what I have said. I have filed a 3RR report against you and I will present my claims of disruption on stalking.

The edits in question are,

My original edit on 9th September -

(1st) Your revert on 12th September 11:58 (picking out just my one edit out of the many that had been done between the 9th and 12th) - This I claim matches the definition of disruption in WP:STALK

(2nd) Your revert of another editors edits on 12th Sept 15:33

(3rd) Your edit 13th Sep 04:23

(4th) Your edit here 13th Sep 05:11 reverting large amounts

which you then self-reverted,

My 2nd edit here 13th Sep 05:44 to remove text that does not appear in the sources, . I reworded my edit from the 9th to see if that could fit better.

(5th)Your edit here 13th Sept 05:51 simply reverting my edit Ttiotsw 08:29, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

1. John Cornwell The importance of doubt, The Guardian 30-Aug-2007