Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 00:26, 21 September 2007

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Hello, MKil, you cunt, and welcome, to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! Mushroom (Talk) 20:42, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Question on Steele edits you made

Why did you say the "information about pictures with national Republicans" was "erroneous"? Did I miss something? I went through Steele's website and saw lots of pictures with smiling citizens but I recognized only McCain. What other prominent Reublicans is he pictured with, and where is the link? Please let me know. Thanks.Acham 20:49, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Larry Craig

I wont bother protecting as at the moment its all coming from one IP (whom I just blocked) - I will keep an eye out however :) Keep up the great work Glen 21:55, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

3RR

Please abide by the three revert rule. Failure to do so may result in your IP being blocked. Jerimee 05:25, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Warning

Your history here clearly indicates you revert things, I am not the one to judge you, but you reverted things on Rocky page and I do not mean just first paragraph. Also, i mentioned rocky was greatest, not the greatest, but some say he is greatest, so I am not putting any pov, but generally accepted fact, if you continue reverting I will make sure you are blocked, do you understand me?

In reply... O yea, this is exactly what you just made up, anon, but correct, besides I know administrators and rocky fans who make edits, also now you tell me english thing, hey, another excuse, shut up, never once when you reverted things did you say it is because of english, but because of rocky's greatness and so on, also, when i log off my computer, log on, new ip comes out, so, stop thinking of poor, poor excuses, when you have no point at all and you never did.I personally never said Rocky was the greatest, nor anybody else, that is not a proper question. yea, but it was not hard to delete things which have nothing to do with understanding, YES, IT'S HARD TO UNDERSTAND ME, WHEN I HAVE TO REPEAT MYSELF, WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN EXPLAINED 100 TIMES, LINKS ARE ALSO ON THE ROCKY PAGE, AND IF YOU CAN NOT SEE IT, TRUST ME, I AM NOT POINTING THEM OUT! That's that.

Please

I understand you are upset with a certain IP adress but please refrain from fighting with it Natasha 21:55, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey, he keeps on putting same things into my mouth, generally accepted idea, he wants to change that, i gave him all the links he wants, he wants more. So, I am only doing what's right.

Natasha, perhaps I am in the wrong here for picking a fight with this person who hides behind the anonimity of his IP address. It's not worth it, that's certain. MKil 21:59, 11 January 2007 (UTC)MKil

No, not hiding, simply trying to make that article ok, you have to read again and you will find out what I told you.

List of greatest boxers

Did you know, that article has been deleted, i recall most of the people voted for it, do you agree, go there, amazing, wow, amazing, do you agree with that, that was a fine, reliable article... Shall we do something about this, write to idiot who did it?

en.wikipedia.org/Talk:List_of_people_considered_greatest_fighter_ever and

Lineal champs... WOW, should we have a say? Also gone... en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Lineal_heavyweight_champions&action=edit

I am requesting some info, you showed some interest in the above, i know you made some edits, are we going to do anything about that, which is much more important than any other edit you are playing with? I also asked you to look into other things, but you have personal vandetta here, keep on arguing rocky is totally not the greatest, reverting baker page, etc... Also, you left on my talk page word vandettta, there are no 3 t's! User_talk: BoxingWear

Bob "The Grinder" Baker

(Copied from User:lmcelhiney Talk Page)

==Wikified== Hello, I am trying to make this one article wikified, also I did provide few sources, hopefully you can review few things. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by .User_talk: BoxingWear

I, too, am trying to improve the Baker article. Unfortunately, my attempts to improve the writing on the page as well as remove weasel words, insertion of rumors, etc., are continually reverted. Let's work together to improve this article. MKil 19:09, 19 January 2007 (UTC)MKil

That is 100% not true, I am simply putting correct information, also Mkil had lots of problems with other users in the past. I simply want article to look good, i am not doing anything wrong, this man demands self evident truth, something that already exists in the world he wants evidence, he had problems with calling rocky greatest, as some people consider him, i gave links, he reverted, I would like this user no longer to bother others, sure, he can reply well and may be he means well, but he is not doing it right, so even if he means well, eventually problems arise, I was asked by others as well to look into his problems. Here's some evidence, this guy HAS SERIOUS BEHAVIORAL problems, 3 rule revert, so this happened last year with others... http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:MKil#3RR

Every time I try to fix something, he keeps on inverting his own story, on the Baker talk page, I truly explained myself, on rocky marciano page, others tried to explain. He simply does not listen, will not listen,then when he gives an argument, he writes a whole book, repeats himself and adds stuff totally irrelevant to the situation, tries to revert the given, something already well, well known.User_talk: BoxingWear

OK, please don't use MY talk page for your personal disagreements!

OK, BoxingWear and MKil, You folks need to work together to resolve this, please. The Talk page is longer than the article! Here are two examples which are similar to this article: Tony Gale and Marcel Cerdan. Note, that both are basically a blob of text on the page without citations. Now, look at Rocky Graziano, Al Hostak, and Sugar Ray Robinson for example which have been WikiFied. Note the use of an introduction and sections which pull together common information.

Use WikiPedia (as I did to find these articles) and Google to find other sources of information and cite your sources. (That doesn't mean just putting an external reference at the bottom or having WikiLinks within the article.) Then, once you have the facts and all agree on them, you can write the article and have minor disagreements over the way something is said. Right now, there is so little material there and so many weasel words (many, some, about, etc.) that the article has no chance of being retained over time. The guidelines here give you lots of information about what an article should look like and how to use and cite sources.

As painful as it might seem, you might be better off in simply rewriting the entire article than trying to piece together improvements. Every time that you swap edits back and forth, it draws attention on the Recent Changes page and brings in folks like me. By the way, I have absolutely no interest in boxing--just in making WikiPedia better (not perfect, but better).

Please write to me if you want additional guidance or suggestions. Thanks for listening. Larry

Lmcelhiney 19:33, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I tried and tried and tried to reason with this man, not only that he is taking away important information on Baker, he is doing the same with Rocky, if you go on my talk page, it has been explained, other users complained, so, try to block that guy, he is killing very important informtion, e.g. Chuvalo fight, date sep 9, keeps on reverting, i mean, he is hopeless, this is now vandalism, he has his own agenda, and other users reported that problem to me. He should not be allowed on wiki, he creates problems. Besides I was a pro boxer, I know a little bit more. The problem is, he keeps on putting words into my mouth. Another point, on marciano page, he reverted my edit abour rocky's military service, i deleted united kingdom reference, since he did not provide evidence of that, this is not a self given, we need to know that for sure, he needs to provide sources, i wanted to add myself he delivered ammunition to soldiers in France, but I have no link to prove it. User_talk: BoxingWear All I ask is that my edits and BoxingWear's edits be compared and judged on their merits. Mine are better written and avoid the use of weasel words. This disagreement is becoming quite childish, I'll admit. It's unfortunate that it has to reach the level where we are drawing the attention of others. MKil 19:59, 19 January 2007 (UTC)MKil

Folks, no one is going to compare your edits and judge them on their merits until you simply stop changing them and allow people to read them! You'll never be able to create this article if each of you have such ownership of the text. But, please understand, THAT is not the problem with this article. Your reverts will cause the article to be protected or the editors blocked or banned.

Please take this argument off of my User page...

Lmcelhiney 20:14, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. I'll back down. Thanks for the words of advice. MKil 20:17, 19 January 2007 (UTC)MKil

Re:User talk:58.64.103.227

You do some fine work. Good find on the Duva cite. Also, thanks for cleaning up my Marciano book reference.

Why not register with a Misplaced Pages account so you can establish a history here? You seem like you'd be a good addition. MKil 23:04, 19 January 2007 (UTC)MKil

Thank you.

My English skill is very poor.i am just a boxing fan in a faraway country. all i can do for Misplaced Pages is just finding some source, remove or add a short sentence. :)

actually i am the editor who added IBRO citation for the Louis page. that meant we have talk talked once at Louis' talk page :)

btw, i saw you editing boxer page in Misplaced Pages for times. i like your works. Keep working :)

How hard to understand, do not leave me messages

Do not leave me any messages, DO NOT TALK TO ME, this has been explained 100 times, the above message 58 user is you, i traced the ip, ok, cool off, i will make sure you are blocked here, do you understand me? Every time i do small edit, you jump on it and not only that you reverse what I said, YOU REVERSE MANY OTHER THINGS I DID NOT EVEN TOUCH. -Boxingwear

One, the user with the IP address beginning with 58 is not me. Two, you may want to read the following page on how to resolve disputes (http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Resolving_disputes). In it, it states, "Be respectful to others and their points of view. This means primarily: Do not simply revert changes in a dispute. When someone makes an edit you consider biased or inaccurate, improve the edit, rather than reverting it. Provide a good edit summary when making significant changes that other users might object to." When you make changes, I do not automatically delete them. I try to improve your writing. That is what I did today. You added some info on Patterson and then when I tried to improve it, you automatically reverted it. That is a violation of Misplaced Pages policy. MKil 19:41, 20 January 2007 (UTC)MKil

It is you and I had enough of your stupidity and sophisticated vandalism.

Do not leave me any messages, DO NOT TALK TO ME, this has been explained 100 times, the above message 58 user is you, i traced the ip, ok, cool off, i will make sure you are blocked here, do you understand me? Every time i do small edit, you jump on it and not only that you reverse what I said, YOU REVERSE MANY OTHER THINGS I DID NOT EVEN TOUCH. -Boxingwear

BoxingWear, you may also want to check out this page (http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines), specifically this: "Don't threaten people: For example, threatening people with "admins you know" or having them banned for disagreeing with you." MKil 19:47, 20 January 2007 (UTC)MKil

AGAIN, do not put words into my mouth, I NEVER SAID ADMINISTRATORS I KNOW, NEVER, I said i will report you and block you, may be somebody else said it, because on my talk page people left messages, complaining about you, reporting you to administrator is not threat but part of wiki or any civil policy YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING. You are a sophisticated vandal who must be and will be stopped.

I would like good soluion to our problem, but you keep on reverting, reverting, reverting, thus, there is no compromise, end of story!

Again, I do not merely revert; I improve the writing of poorly written articles. You are the one who keeps reverting my changes. When I try to improve your badly written sentences, you revert the changes and call me a vandal. That is a violation of wikipedia policy. MKil 19:52, 20 January 2007 (UTC)MKil

There are no bad sentences, I am reverting what you revert, other people's good work, again you have time on your hands to come up with excuses after excuses and then again some new excuses.Boxingwear

You think these are good sentences? "Many wonder how come Rocky did not wait around for Floyd Patterson, here was some talk about Floyd Patterson fighting Rocky on Wednesday Night Fights; either on January 11, 1956, or on January 4 or January 6, 1956, (Floyd's 21st birthday). This Los Angeles, CA bout may have used two-and-a-half minutes exhibition, 2 rounds format, originally planned for Los Angeles, CA. " MKil 19:55, 20 January 2007 (UTC)MKil

You do not stop do you, i do not care what you have to say, you revert, you put your own words, if it is bad spelling or writing, correct, do not kill mr. mkill sophisticated vandal, same old story, new excuses.

I tried to correct both of those sentences, but you reverted my changes. MKil 19:58, 20 January 2007 (UTC)MKil

Do not reply, this last change, I more or less agree with you, but these situations are very rare due to your attitude. Boxingwear

Miami fight

Mkil, if you go under the footnote jan 2, go under beecham fight, there is a full explanation to that bout, also claims on january 2 a heavyweight championship fight was scheduled, that is the reference to marciano fight.

Also your last reply on my talk page..

Well, I will again reply, but do not reply on my talk page, go reply on yours, do you ever read articles, no, it says exhibition only and citation has been given on other new year match, think... I moved citation to Cuba fight, I do have that old pdf file to prove that. Boxingwear

You can't ban me from your Talk page. These pages are used to discuss these matters and we can do it on yours as well as mine.

To the matter at hand, I have no idea what you are saying. What article are you referring to? What article mentions the Marciano-Patterson exhibition bout? If you have one, put it in the citation page. I'd like to read about it. As far as the January 2 match, I explained that the boxrec source is a pretty poor source. A better one would be nice. MKil 22:32, 20 January 2007 (UTC)MKil

Merging pages

Misplaced Pages:Merging and moving pages. —Drowne | Talk 18:47, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Let's get things done together

Ok, I am done talking to you on Marciano page, you really vandalized it, pov, well i may agree with you on punches, but would you say we should add a little bit, dude, just relax, be more specific, realistic, we are human, we can not have everything perfect, also remember popular opininon thru time become facts. Now... Liste of lineal heavyweight champion is gone, look what i said above, get in touch with this administrator....Gwernol and, I am perplexed, shocked, staggered, i mean we voted 5:2 or 5:1 not to delete and it's gone, we need that article back, shall you recreate it?

FINAL WARNING, I TRIED AND I TRIED TO BE REASONABLE WITH YOU- I WILL TOMORROW START FULL INVESTIGATION, WILL REPORT YOU FOR MANY PROBLEMS, THIS HAS BEEN EXPLAINED, IF YOU DO NOT LEAVE THIS WILL GO TO SPECIAL WIKI ADMINISTRATION, I AM SICK OF YOUR VANDALISM AND YOUR REVERTS, YOU WERE TOLD WHAT TO DO, THIS WILL BE VERY SERIOUS IF YOU CONTINUE, DO NOT TALK TO ME, DO NOT CONTACT ME, I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU. UNDERSTAND, I do not mean to shout, but i do NOT want you on my talk page, ever again!

I know you used other ip's to log on, defend yourself and other people who backed you are your buddies. Boxingwear

Say what you will, but it is all untrue. I don't use other IPs to log on and I never talked to Pulltoopen before this. I understand that you are upset that a third-party review of our disagreements vindicated me and delivered a stinging rebuke to you. Instead of claiming there is some sort of conspiracy against you, though, you may want to actually read what Pulltoopen wrote and start abiding by Misplaced Pages policies. I'm happy to work with you if you do so. MKil 15:13, 26 January 2007 (UTC)MKil

Fine by me. I am confident than any examination of these issues will do more to vindicate my position than yours. I'm happy to leave it up to editors to sort out. MKil 00:19, 25 January 2007 (UTC)MKil

good!

3RR stuff

I truly am sorry that you got pulled into an edit war with BoxingWear. You were civil and patient, and I wish you best of luck to your wiki-career in the future. Cheers, PTO 01:09, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I have to admit to some bad behavior myself in terms of edit warring, though. I should have also called for mediation sooner. Thanks for your help on this. MKil 01:12, 25 January 2007 (UTC)MKil

Rocky Marciano

I have protected the page again for a short duration. I would ask you to again return to the talk page and work out your differences there - I have started a new topic. I would love to moderate the discussion a little, but I'm afraid my time is a little limited at the moment due to some long work hours (can't edit from work), my responses may be a little slow if things get heated. Your patience is appreciated. Kuru 04:04, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Anderson Boxer

Actually Anderson isn't an un-notable amateur boxer. He's a student in y11 whom faked everything on that page wondering how long it would take to be taken down. (a long time as it turned out)

Deletion in order indeed.

Rocky Marciano, update

Thank you for your rather infinite patience on this article, MKil. I'm afraid that I did not dig deep enough into the edit history of the article to see the long term issues that were present; and I apologize for that. I can promise you that the situation you encountered is a fairly infrequent occurrence; and I hope that you continue to contribute! You seem to have fairly quickly grasped our core policies. Kuru 01:09, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

The end of the conflict...

Hi MKil,

I tried earlier as you know, but I just didn't have the power to do much other than counsel you both. I believe that you saw yourself being sucked into a bad situation, though sometimes we can't pull ourselves up with our own bootstraps, unfortunately.

I hope that things go better for you in our WP future!

Take care,

Larry

Lmcelhiney 03:19, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

No end to conflict

Mkil, you need to realize you got me into trouble, anyways, i do agree with most of your edits like I told you on January 31st, I do know you had your buddies here, i had nobody, i found out I had somebody (who was banned) left me some messages on my talk page, i tried to help. I will not go into details, if they think I used some IP he used, well, all i know is they are wrong. Some time ago you told me you want to resolve situation, i simply wanted to correct few things and be on my way anyways, can you talk to plo and few others to unblock me, after all I tried to resolve situation, do not leave messages on my talk page, i can not edit there, reply here, i will look into this situation. I am not saying we should work together, i am only writing to let you know if they think that is whoever they think it really does not bother me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User:BoxingWear&diff=105012607&oldid=104944575

Here's the history of my main page. If you can get me unblocked it will be appreciated and I can assist you with boxing stories, i published a dozen of stories on eastsideboxing and on few other boxing sites. I knew I would get into trouble. You never accepted the fact that you made many mistakes with boxing dates and I corrected them. It does not bother me to be suspended, :). Did you know they blocked all of the local ip's, HAHA, now, nobody can even edit and join wikipedia, ah well, even better.

To the problem... On January 31st we agreed we need new marciano greatest link, what do you suggest? I am not going away just like that. Sure I can have another account, no problem, I WILL NOT do that. And certainly I can log on from a computer at my work, so they can not check user check and i certainly could touch other accounts, aside from the ones i touched so it would be impossible to find me. But I do not need that since I am not welcomed here. I simply want few things agreed, do not change those dates, just put citation needed, we shall be just fine. Honestly, my contributions, nobody had problem with them. For example... http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:BoxingWear#A_late_welcome this is general, but there are others who appreciate my additions. Boxingwear Boxingwear —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.129.105.149 (talk) 20:57, 2 February 2007 (UTC).

If i remain banned, ok, we can still work together, i do not care if i am banned or not, but yea, i should not be banned. I am glad you move the baker page, i wanted to do that for a long time and the information box is something i wanted to do, but when i asked an administrator for assistance, nobody ever replied, i was told from the beginning i should never put my faith on wiki administrator! By the way under baker, real name, it's empty, do you think that is appropriate? Boxingwear

ps. As far as my block goes, i simply want that removed, then we can make some editions and I WILL BE GONE FROM wiki, as you remember, i told you i need few things corrected, if i am not welcomed, fine, i shall not contribute. I do not have time anyways but when I do, I do contrubute well and I had plans to create 10 more articles on some fine boxers the world barely remembers today. It's a shame, but, anyways... boxingwear

List of lineal heavyweight champions

I am in touch with few other people, banned or not, we need to fix that, what do you suggest, how do we bring back, yea, before i was "discovered" long before, I requested this from administrators, i was ignored. May be you should create that link again? Boxingwear —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.144.160.251 (talk) 21:16, 2 February 2007 (UTC).

Look, BoxingWear, it was never my intention to get you banned. I wanted editors to mediate our dispute, but when they found you were a long-time abuser of Wiki, they rightly banned you. There is nothing I can do to reverse that. If you want me to create some articles on old-time boxers that you feel is missing, I'd be happy to help. I'm also happy to work on the lineal heavyweight championship article. As for unbanning you, though, I can't do anything about that. MKil 15:08, 3 February 2007 (UTC)MKil

Warning

We are working on resolving situation with this individual, so do not want him to be mixed with others, that particular talk must not be removed.DO NOT continue. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.37.2.142 (talk) 22:40, 5 February 2007 (UTC).

If you are an administrator, I'll gladly follow your direction. However, I think it strange that an administrator would not be logged in. If you are not an administrator (and are, as I suspect, BoxingWear), then I'll keep restoring the improperly removed material from the Marciano talk page. MKil 22:43, 5 February 2007 (UTC)MKil

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BW

Greetings! Yes, he now uses open proxies (by Misplaced Pages policy those are to be blocked on sight). We could semi-protect the page, but since he's the only troublemaker currently active on it, and then only about once a day, reverting isn't a huge deal. Cheers, Antandrus (talk) 23:45, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. Thanks. MKil 02:19, 18 February 2007 (UTC)MKil

Marcaino details

Some guy put something about his height, totally wrong, I deleted that! Was that you? Reach, it is important. Rocky was a small-time fighter, it is amazing he was the top dog with this reach, you said that is not important? You are WRONG. It is remarkable. Middle weight fighters have longer reach than that. There are stories in every biography. http://coxscorner.tripod.com/rocky.html—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Foremanfan (talk • contribs) 21:05, 6 April 2007 (UTC).

I didn't write anything about Marciano's height. As far as the reach goes, what I meant was that it should not be included in the opening paragraph. It's not important enough to go there. Where you put it in the body works quite well, however. MKil 02:30, 7 April 2007 (UTC)MKil

mkil, ok, just keep it clean and correct...I pasted a better web site on Marciano's reach. It is amazing how much confusion can arise after so many years. And even people who knew him really do not know him. (it happens to many, a similar situation or two)

SCHIP

You inserted this in the SCHIP article: "The CBO speculates this is because the state programs offer better benefits and lower cost than the private alternatives." Where in the CBO report does it say this? I'm not saying it's not there, I'm merely asking because I didn't see it when I read the report. I didn't read it too in-depth, however, so I could have missed it. Thanks. MKil 23:12, 19 July 2007 (UTC)MKil

The claim is paraphrased from the report. Here it is verbatim: "The available evidence, which is quite limited, suggests that the bulk of the reduction in private coverage occurs because parents choose to forgo private coverage and enroll their children in SCHIP (because of better benefits, lower costs, or some combination thereof ), rather than employers deciding to drop coverage for such children." , page 9. Abe Froman 23:24, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Heavyweight limit

I'll have a look at this in a couple of days (hopefully tomorrow), but the edit warring is helping no one nor Misplaced Pages. Remember, if someone changes a fact which is well sourced, it isn't just an content dispute, but vandalism, so it helps to source it well. Regards, Severo 20:07, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. There's also Ring magazine's ratings, which show the cruiserweight limit at 200. Therefore, anything above that is heavyweight:http://www.thering-online.com/ringpages/ratings2.html.

As much of a problem as the "anonymous" user is, I don't really think this is vandalism. I truly think that he doesn't understand the distinction that I'm trying to make. Thanks for stepping in, though. MKil 20:10, 6 August 2007 (UTC)MKil

True, it all seems to be in good faith, just a lot of fuss over half a kilogram! Severo 14:58, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. However, we want Wiki to be accurate, no? MKil 15:41, 7 August 2007 (UTC)MKil

I always agreed, we need to make wiki much more accurate.

I will live with your decision, i always wanted to be sure we are correct. Ok, I will however ask boxing historians and take it from there. If it's over 200 lbs so be it, if you check my conversation from yesterday I said, let it be 201 or more for now, if it's otherwise, then we can change it. So for now, let it be. But, as long as the word over is included, it's ok, people will assume 201.

August 2007

Hello. Please don't forget to provide an edit summary, which wasn't included with your recent edit to Coley Wallace. Thank you. Rjd0060 17:25, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

September, 2007

Thank you for making a report at Misplaced Pages:Administrator intervention against vandalism. Reporting and removing vandalism is vital to the functioning of Misplaced Pages and all users are encouraged to revert, warn, and report vandalism. However, administrators generally only block users if they have received a recent final warning (one that mentions that the user may be blocked) and they have recently vandalized after that warning was given. The reported user has not yet been blocked because it appears this has not occurred yet. If this user continues to vandalize after their final warning, please report them to the AIV noticeboard again. Thank you. Cheers,JetLover (Report a mistake) 21:53, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

But I'm not sure the AIV is the right place. Why not here? Cheers,JetLover (Report a mistake) 21:57, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I did, and they said next time something happens report it at AIV.MKil 21:58, 20 September 2007 (UTC)MKil

I was the one who suggested WP:AIV. In addition to whatever good-faith issues the anon might have had, this was mixed with rather trival personal attacks. Someguy1221 22:56, 20 September 2007 (UTC)