| Revision as of 21:31, 21 September 2007 editFisherQueen (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users57,545 edits James 1← Previous edit | Revision as of 21:56, 21 September 2007 edit undoLord Loxley (talk | contribs)869 edits →James I of EnglandNext edit → | ||
| Line 134: | Line 134: | ||
| ==]== | ==]== | ||
| A friendly editor is removing the project tag from this article, saying that restoring it would be vandalism by "homotrolls" (what a charming phrase). A few more eyes may be helpful. -] (]) 21:31, 21 September 2007 (UTC) | A friendly editor is removing the project tag from this article, saying that restoring it would be vandalism by "homotrolls" (what a charming phrase). A few more eyes may be helpful. -] (]) 21:31, 21 September 2007 (UTC) | ||
| :Bollocks. You want to insert all the faggotry into every article at all possible. This is not a new thing. Ask ] for tips on how to succeed, because he usually gets his way with gay POV shoved up all us arses. ] 21:56, 21 September 2007 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 21:56, 21 September 2007
Shortcut|
|
Some recent Shankbone LGBT photos
-
Jim McGreevey
-
Michael Cunningham
-
Harvey Milk High School
-
Dyke (lesbian)
-
Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick
-
Kwame Anthony Appiah
-
Staceyann Chin
-
Neil Giuliano
-
Ed Sikov
-
Anthony Bidulka
-
Jim Carroll
-
Jacqueline Woodson
Upcoming:
Aiza Seguerra, Filipina Musician/Actor
Someone not logged in added this lesbian musician to the List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people/P-T, and I had to adjust the entry and had never heard of her before. In Googling her, there is quite a bit of information, even on YouTube but much of it is in Tagalog, which I don't read or speak. Does anyone read it and can add to her article?
Chris Crocker (internet celebrity) help & advice please
Hi, so the latest chapter in internet fame Chris Crocker (internet celebrity)'s article is up for deletion and it neatly was nominated at the same time his video vaulted to the top of YouTube (over 4 million views in two days). I think there are plenty of references but I believe because he's way femme and flaming and outspoken he's getting a lot of negative attention as a part of the recent high exposure and I think it's adversely effecting the AfD process. Do number of delete votes alone count? Any advice toward the article and AfD voting concerns appreciated. Benjiboi 20:02, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
- Quick update. Thanks for all who've helped tag and edit as well as made insightful comments on the AfD page. It's hard to believe the article won't survive the process and now is starting to actually be a good source of information thanks to all the attention. Benjiboi 01:15, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- In editing this I realize we need an article about drama queens! Benjiboi 14:01, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
POV dispute at Pregnancy
The dispute surrounds whether using gendered pronouns "she/her/her" is appropriate, considering that some FTMs and other-gendered female-bodied persons choose to give birth. Your input is appreciated at Talk:Pregnancy#Gender neutral language. Thank you. -- Photouploaded 13:06, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- Oh, hi, I was just about to post this, lol. see talk:pregnancy and Misplaced Pages:Requested_templates#LGBT_oddities. Basically, it's come to our attention that it's offensive to transmen and so forth to refer to a pregnant person as a woman or "she", but for the sake of sanity, we have to pick a pronoun (can you imagine picking up a book on pregnancy where it says "When one becomes pregnant, one will feel..." or "he or she may experience"? Ick. Messy). Anyway, we're looking for input, and I've also inquired at the human sexuality wikiproject, since they have a claim on the article in question. And if someone can make a template, that'd be nice. Kuronue | Talk 13:30, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- Hi, good to see you. I would be far more likely to pick up that gender-free book than I would one that foisted a gendered assumption on me without asking. Regarding it being "messy", yes, life is messy. Gender is messy. A lot of cisgendered individuals don't like it when other people's gender expression don't fit neatly into their worldview, it's too "messy" for them. But that is not a reason to write an encyclopedia that just slices off those "messy" edges to fit the neat little boxes, leaving a lot of people's experiences undocumented and unaddressed. Photouploaded 13:45, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- While I fully understand and support my cisgender, intresex, and trans brothers, sisters, and others, I must say that this is a bit silly. Given that 99.999999+% of people who go through the process of giving birth are women, WP:UNDUE would seem to apply both on Misplaced Pages and almost all books on the subject. I could see having a small section regarding other genders and pregnancy, in which gender-neutral language would be appropriate, but for the rest of the article it would seem prudent to use "She/her/her". I also feel that creating a template for LGBT oddities is simply silly. Marginalizing the marginalized, IMHO. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 13:59, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- Given that 99.999999+% of people who go through the process of giving birth are women... -- Stop. You made that figure up. Perhaps your personal belief is that the numbers of trans and gender-variant people who give birth is so infintesimal as to justify ignoring, I completely disagree.
- I also disagree about the template, btw: it is entirely appropriate to point out, if only in passing, that the limitations of gendered pronouns are great, and that people are excluded by their use in many Misplaced Pages articles. Photouploaded 14:32, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone have a statistic available on what percentage of the human population is transgendered or gender-variant? A lot of people are calling it a "tiny percentage", which isn't accurate, considering the dozens I know, and the throngs at the gay pride parades around the world. Photouploaded 14:37, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- You're absolutely right - I made that number up. Can you provide a figure for how many male-identified persons have given birth?
- And you're right as well that it's entirely appropriate to point out in passing the limitations, etc. But adding a template regarding (and creating articles on) "LGBT oddities" reinforces the marginalization of trans folk, IMHO. Much more appropriate to link to the trans article and keep things as mainstream as possible. I can't believe I just said that, but there ya go :) But really - "oddities"!?!? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 14:49, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- Concur - oddities is beyond marginalization. Might as well be a side-show entry in Freaks as label people as "oddities". One puppy's opinion. KillerChihuahua 15:04, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- Adding: the "tiny minority" is of pregnant females who self identify as male, as this is about the pregnancy article. KillerChihuahua 15:06, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- And no, I haven't located any numbers yet - my searches keep turning up abuse statistics. :-( KillerChihuahua 15:08, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Who are you questioning about the use of the term "oddities", Satyr? You seem to have used the word first.In case anyone else is as confused as I was, Satyr seems to have used the word "oddities" to refer to the title used in this template request. Photouploaded 15:11, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- Kuronue mentioned the template request above - is that not the template we're talking about? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 18:06, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Indent reset. For what its worth...In my experience, anyone who is in the arena of gender variance from societal norms of male/female and are dealing with pregnancy issues and/or young children tend to refrain from bringing undue attention to gender issues, gay marriage and politically charged concerns in favor of relieving their families and dependents from real or perceived threats to their safety and well-being. To put it simply, LGBT folks go into whatever closets are needed to just get on with their lives and choose battles that don't threaten their kids. This is true, in my opinion, with most LGBT folks but especially true with parents of minors who still face considerable risks and exposure. Benjiboi 01:24, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- I have to agree with SatyrTN that the pronouns should be feminine. Individuals may be non-cisgender and pregnant and choose the gender terms by which to define themselves, but an article on pregnancy should be scientific. Were the article to suggest that a "he" could be pregnant, the assumption would be that the male sex can become pregnant; this is a fallacy. It would be confusing, ridiculous, and unnecessary to avoid mentioning gender when discussing pregnancy. Gender, or at least sex, is a VERY important aspect of pregnancy. Female pregnancy is the rule, not the exception. To be transgender-inclusive, a section addressing the fact that people who do not identify as female can still be pregnant would be more prudent than undoing all mentions of femininity. The topic is also mentioned this article. — Emiellaiendiay 18:35, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Gay visibility?
I was looking for some LGBT link from Visibility (disambiguation) but found none, is there anything appropriate? I've certainly heard of gay visibility but blanking on what else it might be called in wikiland. Benjiboi 07:17, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Johann Hari
The article on the (gay) British journalist Johann Hari is an article within our scope, and it's tagged LGBT studies. Much help is needed, because all progress is impeded by constant battles and smear campaigns. If there's anyone here who likes doing research, finding citations, and enforcing NPOV, please contribute! Thanks, — Emiellaiendiay 18:38, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- Note. This page is currently protected from editing until disputes have been resolved. Benjiboi 23:27, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Justin Berry Rfc
An Rfc has been started regarding several issues relating to this article. Editors dispute both the notability of the subject as well as the reliability of sources and verifiability of facts. There are also concerns related to abuse of administrative/bureaucratic powers. Article has been reduced to a stub twice, and nominated for deletion. Relevant policies include WP:NPOV, WP:V, WP:RS, WP:OR. As several of our project members are involved on both sides of the issues,I thought it appropriate to add a notice here. If anybody feels this is canvassing, please feel free to delete this. An additional, formal notice has been placed on the Biography project, since they have an Rfc template. Maybe we need one, too? Jeffpw 19:51, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- The note on our project tag explaining why we have tagged the article is too vague. Right now, it reads: "The subject of this article was involved both before and after becoming adult". Involved in what? I can infer what that means, but I shouldn't have to. And it might be wise for the wikiproj to have an RfC like WPBIO. ZueJay (talk) 20:04, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- Explanation fixed to read "involved in gay pornography both before and after reaching adulthood". Jeffpw 21:04, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- Better, thanks. Is it necessary to say "before and after reaching adulthood" - seems like too much information (it is information that should be communicated in the article).ZueJay (talk) 21:17, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- Hehehehehe. Your comment certainly addresses the crux of the dispute. The article has been so sanitized now one could be forgiven for thinking Justin made Sesame Street videos instead of teen porn. Anyway, if you can think of some better wording, please feel free to change it. My involvement is only trying to mediate the dispute. Jeffpw 21:39, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- Ha! Oh man. I do not want to get involved in the dispute I see there right now. It seems kinda like the Clay Aiken dispute in that we have reliable sources yet we can't include the information contained within them because it might be offensive to some folks. My very mature opinion right now is "Pllttt!" ZueJay (talk) 22:14, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- Hehehehehe. Your comment certainly addresses the crux of the dispute. The article has been so sanitized now one could be forgiven for thinking Justin made Sesame Street videos instead of teen porn. Anyway, if you can think of some better wording, please feel free to change it. My involvement is only trying to mediate the dispute. Jeffpw 21:39, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- Better, thanks. Is it necessary to say "before and after reaching adulthood" - seems like too much information (it is information that should be communicated in the article).ZueJay (talk) 21:17, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
- Explanation fixed to read "involved in gay pornography both before and after reaching adulthood". Jeffpw 21:04, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Category:Homophobia
I'm in a minor edit war and would like some outside opinion. Would someone(s) review James Anderton, Garry Bushell, and Frank Pakenham, 7th Earl of Longford with regards to whether they belong beside Fred Phelps and Anita Bryant in Category:Homophobia? Please comment on their talk pages. Thanks! -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 18:56, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
- Has this happened yet? If not which ones still need attention? Benjiboi 02:56, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- Take a look through the category. The main ones I'm concerned about are Anderton, Bushell, and Pakenham that I mentioned above. The other two that I'm marginally concerned about are Tony Marco and Kevin Tebedo. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 05:43, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- I've commented on the first three's talk pages. Tony Marco and Kevin Tebedo are short stubs and they do support inclusion for now as it's all they are known for. Benjiboi 15:11, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- Take a look through the category. The main ones I'm concerned about are Anderton, Bushell, and Pakenham that I mentioned above. The other two that I'm marginally concerned about are Tony Marco and Kevin Tebedo. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 05:43, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
St Stephen's House, Oxford gay history
FYI, this article has been put on full protection because multiple anons have been removig info regarding GLBT historical refs, see. Benjiboi 22:16, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Template:Gender bias
Has the {{Gender bias}} template ever been used effectively for an article cleanup? Nothing is using it as this time. / edg ☺ ★ 02:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Defendant in trial for killing a gay man, Michael Sandy, claims he's also gay
On Tuesday, September 18, 2007, the lawyer for Anthony Fortunato, one of four men accused of causing the death of Michael Sandy in Brooklyn, NY last year, claimed that Fortunato is himself gay. I'm wondering if this might be used as a potential defense against the hate crime portion of the charges. Could this be the first "Gay Defense", right up there with the Twinkie Defense? Or more completely, according to the New York Press, "I-didn’t-do-it-because-I’m-just-a-thief-and-drug-user-and-I’m-gay” defense"? Who knows. P.S. - I added a section on the trial in Michael Sandy. — Becksguy 02:25, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Wikinews Interview with Evan Wolfson, Executive Director of Freedom to Marry
Hi. There's a section here advertising this interview. Someone here who doesn't have the page watchlisted could be interested. A.Z. 03:45, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
MOS on homosexual vs. lesbian/gay
I could have sworn that WP:MOS#Identity recommended using gay men or lesbians over homosexual, but I guess I was wrong. I've proposed adding that recommendation. Fireplace 13:40, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
huh?
Does anybody know what's going on with User:AliceJMarkham? I thought she was high up in your project but she looks like shes left. Emile Carter 14:54, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
- Dunno. Just sent an email. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 15:41, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
- After wasting far too much time trying to deal with a highly disruptive editor (Lara bran (talk · contribs)) who was finally blocked after being revealed as a sockpuppet of an indefinately banned troublemaker (Vinay412 (talk · contribs)), I thought that I could finally get back to productive editing.
- After having 2 appeals of that block turned down, that user then blatantly lied by claiming not to have been disruptive (in spite of the edit histories of shemale and Talk:Shemale comprehensively showing otherwise), sent an email to an admin and was unblocked by that admin.
- The disruptive behaviour started again immediately, although not yet to the same extent as before.
- Aside from the question of whether that admin should have recused himself of making the unblock decision, this whole situation says to me that attempting to productively edit wikipedia is now a waste of time because disruptive behaviour now has administrative approval. --AliceJMarkham 06:15, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
- Alice, I wish you would reconsider. And make use of the resources of this group. For instance, several of us can watchlist Shemale to keep track of that editor and possible vandalism. And we do have several admins in the group to help address persistent problems. Come back? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 18:46, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
- Seconded. Share the load, that's what this project is all about. :-) I'm sure there's something we can do... Raystorm (¿Sí?) 20:08, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
- Alice, I wish you would reconsider. And make use of the resources of this group. For instance, several of us can watchlist Shemale to keep track of that editor and possible vandalism. And we do have several admins in the group to help address persistent problems. Come back? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 18:46, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
James I of England
A friendly editor is removing the project tag from this article, saying that restoring it would be vandalism by "homotrolls" (what a charming phrase). A few more eyes may be helpful. -FisherQueen (Talk) 21:31, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
- Bollocks. You want to insert all the faggotry into every article at all possible. This is not a new thing. Ask User:Haiduc for tips on how to succeed, because he usually gets his way with gay POV shoved up all us arses. Lord Loxley 21:56, 21 September 2007 (UTC)