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Happy New Year!

Христосъ Воскресе!

Ура! :) --Irpen

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Piotrus

The above case is closed. A general amnesty for editors involved in Eastern Europe-related articles is extended, with the expectation that further editing will adhere to Misplaced Pages's policies. Future behavior problems may be addressed by the Arbitration Committee on the motion of any Arbitrator or upon acceptance of a request for inquiry by any user who edits in this area. For the Arbitration Committee, Picaroon (t) 19:09, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Response to Lysy

Sorry I couldn't get back to you earlier, but I was unable to do so due to circumstances beyond my control. I specifically mean getting back to you in regards to your outrageous, false, and unapologized for statement regarding Lithuanian "historical support" of the Nazis. This statement was made by you here on my talk page under the heading, "Disruptive Editing", circa June 22, 2007. Before getting to my point, I also want to say that my being briefly away from the WP project has given me a fresh and different perspective of why this problem of propagandizing on the Misplaced Pages project should stop. If you look at the recent entries concerning the article and talk on the "Current situation" of the Polish minority in Lithuania (and look at the usual participants in the recent row), you'll see what the problem is, in a microcosm. Now for the sweeping generalization you made concerning the Nazis and Lithuania, and Lithuanian so-called "historical support" of the Nazi's policies. When you speak of Lithuania in such a context, I'm sure it's safe to assume you are not speaking of a geophysical entity or its forests, rocks, and streams, but of it's people. So then who exactly do you mean, what people? The government of the Republic of Lithuania? No, that fled in 1940, and never supported the Nazis. The newly installed government of the LSSR? I don't think so. An old couple living on their farm who lived through the Tsarist regime and WWI, and were happy to find their country free and indepedent in 1918? A medical student who had their studies and dreams interrupted by the politics and war that began in 1939? Again no, no and no. The Lithuanian "support" of the Nazis is the figment of the imagination of propagandists from all sides of the issue, and evidently when you bring it up, you mean to perpetuate such nonsense. As for the term "historical" being used in this context, this is another bit of nonsense. As a government, Nazi Germany lasted a mere twelve years (half of that time at war) and occupied Lithuania for three years. The Nazis came uninvited and all of their activities were done under the cloud of a military occupation, and for all practical purposes, martial law. And whereas (like the French), the Lithuanian people did not engage in a futile excercise by staging some doomed "uprising", this does not constitute support of Nazi activities or policies. And please do not waste your time by giving me isolated individuals as examples supporting your position, because even though I could reply with plenty of Polish examples of collaboration with the Nazis, it would be equally ridiculous for me to claim the this proved Polish "historical" support for the Nazis. I will grant you however, that after a year of Stalinist excesses, deportations, executions and so on, there may have been a feeling of relief on the part of many that the first foreign incursion was being replaced by perhaps something less abhorrent, and the Nazis might even allow the re-establishment of an independent Lithuania, but this hope proved to be short lived. It was something like "jumping out of the frying pan into the fire". And you speak of "historical support". So sweeping and so "grand" of a concept, yet hardly "historical" as one understands the term in English. I think of historical as a concept that would span a greater time frame than three years, but just the same it is a "loaded" phrase as it's being used by you in this context. For example, if one wanted to debate the "historical" existence and significance of Polish anti-Semitism, since this subject almost spans a millenium, I would equally oppose that description as being inflammatory and counter productive. And unnecessary, btw. So enough with the "historical". Incidentally I found your suggestion that the Lithuanian partisans who operated in Lithuania after WWII, was somehow more "evidence" of Lithuanian historical support of the Nazis, particularly odious. When I called your remarks outrageous and asked for a retraction and/or apolology, you stated that you weren't about to apologize over a difference of opinion. This is not about a difference of opinion. And this type of activity on Misplaced Pages should stop. I think we should all choose our words more carefully. As always, best wishes. Dr. Dan 01:41, 21 August 2007 (UTC) p.s. Do consider that apology.

Dan, consider this a warning. If you do not stop igniting hatred and digging things up that are done and gone, I will block you. I am very serious. Please channel your energy into something useful instead, like writing or copyediting articles. That will be far more beneficial than driving everyone into "my nation is better" game. Renata 13:29, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Renata, it's a pity that you think making a statement like the Lithuanians "historically supported the Nazis" should go unanswered and unchallenged. Now that I expressed my opinion on the subject, consider my input on the matter finished. It had nothing to to with "my nation is better" or other any "games". Please be sure to apply your warnings and blocks equally and fairly in the future. And unless you feel the the Lithuanians "historically supported the Nazis", it would have been nice of you to issue the same warning when that inflammatory statement was made by Lysy. In so far as digging anything up, it was the last matter that was unresolved between me and Lysy before I took some time off from the project. Dr. Dan 15:34, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I am glad to see that you are taking the warning seriously. As for provocations, my answer is no, they shouldn't either be made or answered. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, productive that can come out of a provocation. Renata 16:37, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm taking the warning for what it is. And for clarification, I repeat that making a statement that the Lithuanians "historically supported the Nazis" should not go unanswered or unchallenged. Perhaps you agree with the premise. I do not. Dr. Dan 21:57, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Glad it's been resolved. Since we are back to being productive, would you mind taking a look at the articles linked at {{Prussian clans}}? I just finished the series of seven articles about Lithuanian cousins that do not have living representatives today. I know the language does not meet professional English requirements, and I know you can do wonders :) I would really appreciate it. Renata 03:04, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

It has not been resolved. In the meantime, I will be happy to look at the Prussian clans. Dr. Dan 04:08, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Completely disagree with your position, Renata, regarding your "warnings". Or this is something new and we will see more such events, then they are really justifiable , like in theses case , , , . Somehow you did not do nothing similar in these cases. And one inelegant person once said: The only thing necessary for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Currently you suggesting to do nothing... M.K. 13:26, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Currently I suggest copyediting Prussian clans, or some other article. Renata 15:15, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Queen bee

A delightful article! Dr. Dan 17:28, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Small Statement

For the benefit of some of my friends and others not so friendly, I wish to say that after a serious illness keeping me away from Misplaced Pages editing for a month and a half, I am happy to see that "all is well" and very "little has changed" in certain quarters concerning certain agendas on WP. Same o, same o. But I also wish to remind certain individuals coming out of close minded societies, that free thinking people are very tired and concerned about this totalitarian like threat of censorship dangling over the heads of editors trying to resolve, unresolved matters. To those folks I suggest they read the once popular Yosemite Sam mudflaps, and take them to heart. Sam said "Back Off". Dr. Dan 04:34, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

This was not baiting

These remarks were removed from P.P.'s talk page, by the prokonsul himself. They were made in response to remarks and personal insults made against me under the heading Narutowicz, September 5, 2007.

Other than your personal insults (calling me a troll, etc.), I found your little diatribe to be humorous and enlightening. Halibutt, I have always believed you to have an extremely anti-Lithuanian bias (not sure why), and one who enjoys poisoning realtions between Poles and Lithuanians on WP. Do find some time out of your busy schedule and visit Lithuania. Start with the Lithianian city of Vilnius (only a hop, skip, and a jump from Warszawa). Then you can add it to your little flag collection. You'll find the people in Lithuania very hospitable, and no flies in your soup. Sometimes people catch those flies in the cobwebs of their own minds. If you really leave, have a nice life. Dr. Dan 01:21, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Alphabetical order... sure.

It took me a while to really start laughing after I saw this. A smart joke notwithstanding, it was an act of vandalism nevertheless. I suppose we both know that. --Poeticbent talk 15:10, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Glad you got a laugh. Laughs are good. You'll never know how many laughs the "non-existent Cabal" has given me over time. However the issue remains that the English language is being adulterated by calling Cracow, on English WP, Krakoof (sic), and when Cracow and Krakow are added, alphabetizing them seems quite logical. Sorry that seems to be vandalization to you. I'm beginning to wonder why our Polish editors have a problem with the sound of Cra"COW", and perhaps their auditory perception of "COW" doesn't conjure up a peaceful, contented cud chewing animal, giving milk to all, but conjures up "KAŁ" (a Polish word for fecal matter, that happens to rhyme with cow). Could that be it? Dr. Dan 19:03, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

I hope we do understand each other here, right? Naturally, alphabetizing was not the source of my laughter, but the messed up spelling was. Your Crakow versus Kracow. Would it be possible than, since you brough that up again as "logical", that the joke might have been unintentional? I find it hard to believe. Albeit, "COW" versus "KAŁ" sounds even funnier. --Poeticbent talk 19:24, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh that. Although I once told Darwinek don't drink and edit, I probably had a setka or two of żubrówka that night, but I soon corrected the typo myself. Hey, now that I understand what you were driving at, I got a good laugh out of it too. Best. Dr. Dan 19:40, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

On Lameness

Maybe the edit war was lame but the description of it was inappropriate for Misplaced Pages:Lamest edit wars. Your entry looked like a discussion post with arguments for your own side and against the other. You even signed it. The page is not the place to continue an edit war or try to make others think that your side was more sensible. It's a place to show the war was lame, without taking sides. An example of lameness could be that Good Article review failed "Based on the edit warring and the constant bickering". Misplaced Pages:Lamest edit wars has been nominated for deletion 7 times and would probably have been deleted long ago if people just used it to justify their side in edit wars. PrimeHunter 21:07, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

check it

you may like to notice that I have added a previously missing section in the denazification article, I thought it was sorely lacking and seemed to be devoid of this portion of Germany. 216.110.236.235 06:28, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Native placenames

Hi Dr Dan, Just wondering what you meant with your comment regarding the word Cracow becoming obsolete? (Maybe I'm a bit slow today, the coffee machine is broken ;-) ) By the way, I agree that my use of Warszawa on my user page may appear a bit inconsistent. However, there is a logic. Let's put it this way - I recall being rather impressed first with the Brittanica atlas when I was growing up, and later with Google maps, in that they give place names according to the local spelling rather than some anglicised version. Incidentally, this is also why I objected to the change to Navahrudak Voivodeship, having the impression that the native version (at that time and location) was the Polish spelling. Deuar 14:26, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi back. The use of Warszawa on your user page strikes me as being more than a bit inconsistent with your views (if I understand them properly) regarding the Cracow or Wilno issues on English WP. Or maybe not at all inconsistent. Perhaps you and I will eventually fine tune the matter as they relate to the English language. Dr. Dan 23:06, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Requests

Please don't link my image in discussion. Please refer to me as Piotrus, not P.P. Thank you, -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  01:33, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

I think it makes sense. --Irpen 01:38, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

I'll consider your request. I like the picture. What's wrong with the picture? You posted it on the internet for everyone to enjoy. I believe your caption accompaning it was, "a picture is worth a thousand words" or something to that effect. As to P.P., it is merely an abbreviation of Prokonsul Piotrus which is a lot to write. If you chose to call me D.D., and link it to pictures of myself, I'd enjoy it. But I will consider your request. But like you said, your picture is worth a thousand word. Dr. Dan 17:24, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Dan, I think we do not need to go into justifications as the request is very simple and easy to comply. An editor requests something in relation to his own person, that it not be called by his initials and not to be linked to his own picture from places where he doesn't want it to be used. His own vicious conduct towards others is a separate issue as well as the refusal to change it. But let's try to teach by example. The statement where this user is called by his full name is no weaker than the statement where he is called by his initials. And besides, your refusal would likely add a bit to a secret database that is now somewhere where we can't see it until the next arbcom. --Irpen 17:36, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Irpen, I do respect you deeply, and your input will help me consider his request. Since I don't view this picture issue as related to his own behavior and conduct towards others, I agree that problem it is a separate issue. Tit for tat has nothing to do with it. But if somehow this "request" causes him to change his conduct towards others, then it would have been a good thing. As an aside, why is a picture of the Prokonsul modeling a Żupan offensive? The picture is on his user page, and any objective observer would conclude that P.P. is bursting with pride, not shame. As to the initials P.P., am I missing something there? J.F.K., or U.K. or N.A.T.O. seem to inform by abbreviation without an issue. Why is P.P. such a big deal? Dr. Dan 22:49, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Are you guys talking about the pictures on the right? What's wrong with them? Their license says "I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby publish it under the following licenses: Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document ...". As I understand, linking to it, or showing it here, are ways to distribute it. Regarding the naming, it is obvious that User:Piotrus prefers to hide this rather technical login user name behind a more talkative  _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus} , so it would be rather impolite to call him Piotrus. I apologize for having done so in the past. As Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus is rather clumsy, one is inclined to use an abbreviation. The initials P.K. would be the first choice, but as these could be confused with User:P.K., we should settle with P.P..-- Matthead      O       03:54, 28 October 2007 (UTC)