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Revision as of 02:29, 1 November 2007 editDppowell (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users6,413 edits →Great Irish Famine: List of books by Young Ireland authors: the article is on its WP:OWN← Previous edit		Revision as of 11:17, 1 November 2007 edit undoRannpháirtí anaithnid (old) (talk \| contribs)6,688 edits →Great Irish Famine: List of books by Young Ireland authors: chin upNext edit →
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	:One of the ''other side'' appears to have taken a bit of unilateral action on this! (] 02:03, 1 November 2007 (UTC))		:One of the ''other side'' appears to have taken a bit of unilateral action on this! (] 02:03, 1 November 2007 (UTC))
	::There's some pretty egregious ]ing going on over there, not to mention violations of the recent arbitration ruling. There are grounds for escalation, but I'd prefer to treat that option as the last resort that it is. More editors taking an active interest in the article would be preferable...and would probably solve the ] issue in short order. I can't do more than I have without descending into an edit war. IMHO, it's one of the most important articles in the project, but it's in rough shape at the moment. ] 02:29, 1 November 2007 (UTC)		::There's some pretty egregious ]ing going on over there, not to mention violations of the recent arbitration ruling. There are grounds for escalation, but I'd prefer to treat that option as the last resort that it is. More editors taking an active interest in the article would be preferable...and would probably solve the ] issue in short order. I can't do more than I have without descending into an edit war. IMHO, it's one of the most important articles in the project, but it's in rough shape at the moment. ] 02:29, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
			:::Been there, DP. A very tedious editor to find yourself embroiled in an argument with. Likewise, my poor experience was over something quite matter-of-fact and trivial. Chin up, OK? --]<sup>]</sup> 11:17, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

	== RTÉ hosts ==		== RTÉ hosts ==

Revision as of 11:17, 1 November 2007

/Archive 1

Séan Balmy

Please could someone take a look at this article. First I wanted to add a template for speedy deletion because of WP:nonsense but perhaps this really is a man, famous in the region of Cork.--Thw1309 09:40, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

George Moore (novelist) FAR

I just nominated George Moore (novelist) at FAR because it lacks inline citations. To comment or help improve the article, please see Misplaced Pages:Featured article review/George Moore (novelist). Calliopejen1 17:23, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Unassessed, untagged articles

New article your project may want to tag and assess: Enda Walsh. Also untagged: Disco Pigs, Elaine Cassidy, Gavin Friday, Jim Sheridan and Aidan Gillen.

BTW, perhaps I'm film-centric, but is Cillian Murphy, one of the most famous Irish film actors, really of only low importance to your project? Best, Melty girl 23:31, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Cillian Murphy rated A-class

Cillian Murphy has been upgraded since becoming GA, and it was just rated A by WikiProject Biography. I don't know how your assessment process works, but you may want to reassess the article. Thanks, Melty girl 20:15, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

While the WikiProject Biography may regard this as an A class article, in terms of the WikiProject Ireland actors will likely not rate as high as say some Irish statesmen or well known Irish literary figures. Remember that Cillian Murphy may not be very important in the broader view of Irish articles, but you can always ask for an assessment by the assessment team and we will be happy to review it. ww2censor 20:36, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

This comment (unlike my previous comment re Murphy) was about rating the quality of the article, not assessing its importance. You can have an A-class article about a subject of low or high importance. --Melty girl 21:00, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Mind you, in popular culture, U2 are rated "top" in Irelandproj - so "low" seems a bit tame for internationally known actors. Remember, being known internationally is one of the criteria for "importance". (Guidance can still be clutter - :)!(Sarah777 21:13, 18 September 2007 (UTC))

I think this is a good point. "Mid" is probably a more appropriate rating for Murphy's importance. And GA versus A is a separate qualitative issue. (Heh heh -- I actually agree with you about part of that box being unnecessary. But I've seen so many newbies think that the talk page is a place to discuss the subject rather than the article, that I like to keep it there.) --Melty girl 21:22, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Probably 'cos of the nature of the subject in this case! I've upped the importance to "mid" (can't guarntee there will be no objections mind)......but the issue of why BioProj and IrlProj should differ on the quality rating is a point. An A should be an A regardless of the importance or the Project I'd reckon.(Sarah777 21:38, 18 September 2007 (UTC))

Bang Bang (Dublin): Article for Deletion

Be advised that the article Bang Bang (Dublin) is now being disussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Bang Bang (Dublin). He may be part urban myth, but I seem to remember an old man who used to randomly walk around central Dublin who would abruptly roar "Bang!", maybe in the early 1970's.

The result was Keep. ww2censor 14:54, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Johnston Mooney & O' Brien

Whilst I am here, I may as well ask if anyone knows anymore verses to this rhyme (which is best recited in a broad Dublin accent):

Johnston Mooney & O' Brien bought a horse for one an' nine,

When the horse began to kick, Johnston Mooney bought a stick,

When the stick began to break, Johnston Mooney bought a rake,

When the rake began to rust, Johnston Mooney bought a bus,

When the bus began to stop, Johnston Mooney bought a shop.

I am not sure what encyclopedic value this is, but let me know if you can remember anything anyways. --Gavin Collins 12:44, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Renaming the by-county categories

I have proposed renaming all the existing by-county categories to the format "stuff in County X". Many are currently just called "stuff in X", so e.g. Category:Geography of Leitrim would be renamed to Category:Geography of County Leitrim.

I have listed several million of these categories at CfD:

Comments welcome. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:47, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Some by-county categories now moved

Just a quick note to say that the first those of Irish by-county categories have now been reamed by the bots, i.e. those nominated at CfD on October 6.

There are more to be done, i.e. those nominated at CfD on October 7. I expect that they will probably be renamed tomorrow. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:13, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

As indeed they have been. The only by-county categories currently still in the CfD process are two singe-category nominations:

plus the tidyup group nomination below. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:27, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

The last batch

The final batch of by-county categories have now been nominated for renaming: see Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 October 14#Even_more_Irish_by-county_categories. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:15, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Roads by-county categories

There seems to be good coverage of roads in the Republic of Ireland: the National Primary Routes have a series of articles which mostly seem to be up to be B-class standard or better, and there is a more mixed collection of articles on regional roads.

They are currently all categorised under Category:Roads in the Republic of Ireland as Category:National Primary Route, Category:Regional Road or Category:Secondary roads in the Republic of Ireland. However, there is no consistent scheme of categorisation by county. Some articles are categorised under "Transport in County X", bit others have no geographical categorisation.

I propose to create a new category Category:Roads in the Republic of Ireland by county, with a subcat for each county Category:Roads in County Carlow etc, and categorise all the road articles accordingly (e.g. N15 road would go in Category:Roads in County Donegal, Category:Roads in County Leitrim and Category:Roads in County Sligo. Any thoughts?

There appear to be fewer road articles in Category:Roads in Northern Ireland, so I'm not sure if this would be quite so useful in the North, but it could be done there too. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:47, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

User:Ardfern has set up such a system and I have been populating the categories; but he uses Category:Transport in Longford rather than specifically "roads". (And, of course he uses "Transport in Longford" rather than the proposed "Transport in County Longford".

I presume that Category:Roads in County Longford would be a subcategory of Category:Transport in County Longford? I have no objections to the idea; in Dublin there are already many articles about specific streets so this category could grow pretty large. (Sarah777 18:31, 8 October 2007 (UTC))

Why categorise the roads by county when most of them pass through more than one county and those counties are well linked in the articles themselves (well the well written infoboxes do have them)? Categorising them by type, just as they are now, seem like the best solution. Otherwise where will you go looking for a road like the N8 road that passes through 5 counties or the N4 road that passes through 8 counties - why have 8 categories on that page when one will do? ww2censor 18:39, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, Ardfern's categorisation is doing that already. So far my record is the N80 (5 counties) but I haven't got to the national primaries yet! I think BHG's suggestion is that we separate 'roads' from 'transport'. Then, if for some strange reason you want to look up all the roads in Dublin - there they are, Motorways, Primaries, secondary, regional, local and streets. (Sarah777 18:45, 8 October 2007 (UTC))

The transport by county categories are good, and I intend the Roads-by-county categories to be subcats of those (any roads already in the transport categ can be recatted). I think that most counties have more than enough roads to justify a separate sub-category.

I think that Sarah has mostly answered ww2censor's point, but I would just add that ww2censor is looking at it from the perspective of the reader of a road article asking "which counties is this in"? I agree that categories are not a good way of doing that (I'd actually say they are a bad way of doing that) ... but the purpose of the categories is to allow someone looking at the county to answer the question "what articles do we have on roads in this county". In other words, it's for navigating in a different direction. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:19, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

PS I should have added that I am proposing this in addition to the categories by type of road, not as a replacement for it. (Re-reading ww2c's comment, it occurred to me that maybe my suggestion might have been read as implying the deletion of those roads-by-type categories). --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:23, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

BHG, I understand fully what you propose (and realise that "Roads in County X" would be a sub-cat of "Roads in RoI"; not of "Transport in County X". I think the idea is fine but don't feel very strongly about either way. I think we should get User:Ardfern in on the discussion - he is out there categorising like a Tasmanian Devil.(Sarah777 19:47, 8 October 2007 (UTC))

I agree, and had already let a note at User talk:Ardfern#Roads_by_county. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:56, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

(de-indent) I think some of you don't quite see the issue in the same way as I do. I understand that BHG intends these to be additional, renamed cats and not replacements. I cannot agree with more cats for these roads. The problem is that National Primary Route, Roads in the Republic of Ireland and Transport in the Republic of Ireland by locality with its county sub-categories, are already all sub-categories of Transport in the Republic of Ireland. WP guidelines discouraged editors from categorising articles in two sub-categories of the same category, or even a main cat and its sub-cat, as would be the case here. This would seem to be where Ardfern's categorising will lead us if we follow this track. Check out some general categorising guidelines #3 which says "Usually, articles should not be in both a category and its subcategory" but it goes on to give examples of exceptions but they do not cover our scenario. Having read the categorisation guideline, I would therefore suggest all the individual county transport categories should go up for deletion (whether renamed or not) and if no one else will do so I will do so, because it is basically providing different ways of categorising the same articles and making matters more complex, especially where one editors goes in one direction, like Ardfern and another editor chooses a different way of categorising the same type of articles. ww2censor 02:50, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi ww2c, I think you have misread the guidelines. Yes, you are quite right that no article should be in both a category and its sub-category, but that is not what is bring proposed here ... and there is no guideline against having an article in two sub-categories. In fact, that's a the usual way of dealing with intersections between different sorts of categories. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:11, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

As on example of this, see Hanna Sheehy-Skeffington. She is in Category:Irish feminists, Category:Irish politicians and Category:People from County Cork, all of which are subcats of Category:Irish people. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:15, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I was happy enough with Ardferns cats but he does appear a bit reluctant to come here and argue his case. (Sarah777 08:23, 9 October 2007 (UTC))

I don't think that there is any contradiction between what I have been doing and the good work done by User:Ardfern. The renamings to include the word "county" were all discussed on Ardfern's talk page, and all I am doing with the roads is building on Ardfern's good work by add a further set of sub-cats; none of Ardfern's work is being undone. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:04, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

That AWB thingy you are using is powerful! (Sarah777 04:19, 10 October 2007 (UTC))

Yes, AWB is a brilliant tool, tho it does need to be used with care, particularly in getting consensus for large numbers of changes (such as creating and populating the roads-by-county categories discussued here). Some tasks require the use of regular expressions, which not everyone understands, but there's a lot that can be done without them, particularly wrt categorisation.

Once the CfRs close and the categories are renamed, I plan to run through them all adding category text and a link to the Ireland portal. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:51, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Photo etiquette

Ww; I think we need some guidelines about replacing or downgrading someone else's photo and replacing it with your own. See St. Mary's Cathedral, Limerick and talk. A fine pic existed for over 2 years and then a poorer version barged in and took over! As you said of my wonderful contribution to your postage article (where you mistakenly though I was annoyed at your removal of it) - in future don't ask; just delete. The problem here (and I'm being 'stalked myself by another 'crappy snapper') is when OK images are being replaced by someone's blurred snatches through the car window. Can we produce a guide or should we just maintain huge watchlists and battle away? (Sarah777 08:23, 9 October 2007 (UTC))

Some guidelines already exist here and perhaps the most relevant part is that poor quality images should not be used and must be relevant to the article they appear in AND be of sufficient notability. So if they don't comply you are quite at liberty to reinstate the better. more relevant older images and tell refer the editor to the guidelines. Just don't get into an edit war if you can help it and if necessary refer the matter to an admin. Large watchlists? Maybe you already take the record in that field of endeavour! ww2censor 13:32, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

It is my watchlist that gets me into so many scrapes and bumps! Still, it does help keep things uniform across the bits of the project I'm involved in. Happy to know that this exists - I'll be slapping it down around the place in future! (Sarah777 04:13, 10 October 2007 (UTC))

Staying up late or getting up early? I had a look at St. Mary's Cathedral, Limerick and agree with you about the images but besides that most of the test is a copyvio and needs to be removed leaving rather too little text for more than one relevant image. Even the Celtic cross sunset add nothing to the article. I would even get rid of that too. Lacase will just have to justify any additions he makes after I strip the article; maybe later today as I have other stuff on right now. ww2censor 04:20, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Early bird natch - catching worms!(The vandals come out at night) (Sarah777 04:45, 10 October 2007 (UTC))

Ulster Banner straw poll

Hello there,

A straw poll has opened at this section of the United Kingdom talk page regarding the use of the Ulster Banner for that article's circumstances only. To capture a representative result as possible, you are invited to pass your opinion there. If joining the poll, please keep a cool head, and remain civil. Hope to see you there, Jza84 22:42, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

History of Britain

This is put forward as a category for deletion, here. To capture a representative result as possible, you are invited to pass your opinion there. If joining, please keep a cool head, and remain civil. Hope to see you there, (Sarah777 21:30, 12 October 2007 (UTC))

I have proposed a new name for the category, which would resolve many of the problems identified. I'd be grateful for any comments on the proposal. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:45, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Jason's

Can any one confirm if Jason's snooker hall in Ranelagh, Dublin is closed? --Gavin Collins 12:30, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Irish kings

I'm suggesting a split of articles and categories on Irish kings. See Talk:List of High Kings of Ireland. Cheers, Angus McLellan (Talk) 22:25, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

FAR Irish poetry

Irish poetry has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. Ceoil 08:04, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Project tagging of article talk pages

Hi folks, I know that some editors have been working hard for a long time tagging article talk pages with {{WikiProject Ireland}}, to facilitate monitoring and assessment of articles.

I have recently taken to doing this myself, and have {{WikiProject Ireland category}} for use in tagging categories; it's more compact and avoids lumping categories into the project's importance categories.

I have also been discussing some automated tagging of categories and articles (see WP:BOTREQ#Tagging_for_WikiProject_Ireland), and I think that we are now close to having a bot tag all the sub-categories of Category:Ireland.

The bot can also tag the articles, but since bots aren't very adept at reading and assessing articles and, it would have to leave all the parameters blank. This may sound rather useless, but what it will do is to populate the unassessed categories, so at least we know what needs to be assessed. This see,ms to be be a very useful step.

However, while I have asked the bot-owner to ahead and tag the categories, I have asked hi to hold off so far on tagging the articles, because there are two issues which I have not yet clarified, and where I want to see if there is a consensus here.

I think that the bot could use Category:Ireland stubs and its subcategories to tag all untagged Irish stubs as stub-class. The only concern I see is that the existing stub tags may not be fully accurate, but it seems to me that they will be right more often than not, and that it could save us a lot of work to have the stubs tagged as such (rather than having to fill in the paramaters manually). Is that OK with other editors?
So far as I can see, a very high proportion of the articles under Category:Ireland are biographies, and I thought we should consider whether it's a good idea to lump all the biographies in with the other articles. My suggestion is that the thing to do is to create (at least on paper) a nominal biographical workgroup for this project, and ensure that the bot tags the biographical articles accordingly. Even if we don't yet have a dedicated team of Irish biographical editors, I think that tagging the articles in this way would be very helpful to anyone who does want to ficus on biogs, and would also help avoid overwhelming the general project categories. Is that OK with everyone? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:44, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Certainly sounds good to me...after two months of tagging to move from 1,000 articles collected to 4,800 the news that we have 20,000 remaining is a bit daunting - it is fairly gruelling work and it is difficult to keep at it, especially ploughing through the biographies or lists of mythical kings or whatever. Go for it...we can tidy up afterwards in our own areas of interest. (Sarah777 19:33, 28 October 2007 (UTC))

Tagging the other 20,000 article by a bot seems like a great idea and will leave the job of making assessments without having to search for them within a category. It will certainly save us some work, even if it does not seem like a lot. ww2censor 04:09, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry but I'm confused - are Irish biographies being wikiproject tagged? --Nengscoz41620 05:56, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages Ireland comments

What's the fuss, Misplaced Pages Ireland is a dead duck, thanks to a small section of ego-centric individuals. Sarah777, you do excellent work, it's appreciated by your fellow editors. The Admins tried to cobble you too, and Vintagekits. They pulverized GH, and all he did was to fall in love in the wrong circumctance. And it's always classified evidence. Enough said! 19:53, 28 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.19.83.222 (talk)

It wasn't a very live duck last August! Yep, anonymous users are ruining Wiki; that's why I'd strongly support registration!! (Sarah777 20:18, 28 October 2007 (UTC))

Agree with registration, and I'll keep my user-name clean, I know all the parties involved, that's why I don't sign. Disagree with Anons running Misplaced Pages. It's been run by a gang of Admins, for whatever reason. Don't say anything about British genocide, but say as you like about Germany, France, The Vatican etc. Get it? 78.19.197.248 22:19, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

I think you know I'd agree with you; just that this isn't really the place to discuss it....regardless of differences I think there is a core of good and serious editors here doing good work to make sure Ireland is well covered in Wiki. (Sarah777 00:06, 29 October 2007 (UTC))

It's just that these Admins give me the reaches, on one hand trying their damnedest to crucify selected editors, and then later they come along and whistle for help with their "thing". It's not you Sarah777, didn't mean to get this involved, back tomorrow. My point is that the core is shrunk, no doubt you'll make up much of the diff!00:16, 29 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.19.197.248 (talk)

Gaeilge task force

Coming out from a few conversations, a Gaeilge task force has been established to coordinate the translation of Irish place names and other Irish-language related work. Anyone who wants to get invovled is invited to add their names to the list of participants or drop a line on the task force talk page.

Even those without Irish are invited - an outside view is always important, and I'm certain that there is plenty of work that can be done without the need for the Auld'Gaeilge! --sony-youth 16:34, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Great Irish Famine: List of books by Young Ireland authors

Domer48 and I are having a disagreement about the inclusion/exclusion of a list section in the Great Irish Famine article. I feel we've reached an impasse and would welcome some fresh eyes at Talk:Great Irish Famine. Dppowell 00:33, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

One of the other side appears to have taken a bit of unilateral action on this! (Sarah777 02:03, 1 November 2007 (UTC))

There's some pretty egregious WP:OWNing going on over there, not to mention violations of the recent arbitration ruling. There are grounds for escalation, but I'd prefer to treat that option as the last resort that it is. More editors taking an active interest in the article would be preferable...and would probably solve the WP:OWN issue in short order. I can't do more than I have without descending into an edit war. IMHO, it's one of the most important articles in the project, but it's in rough shape at the moment. Dppowell 02:29, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Been there, DP. A very tedious editor to find yourself embroiled in an argument with. Likewise, my poor experience was over something quite matter-of-fact and trivial. Chin up, OK? --sony-youth 11:17, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

RTÉ hosts

Template:RTEhosts

Does anyone either know how to edit this or know where the original is so I can edit it and add more hosts? --Nengscoz416 00:41, 1 November 2007 (UTC)