Revision as of 02:09, 18 November 2007

WP:RD/M C #eee #f5f5f5 #eee #aaa #aaa #aaa #00f #00f #000 #00f miscellaneous Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Miscellaneous Miscellaneous WP:RD/M

November 11

My School

Gahh I cant convince any of my teachers at school that Misplaced Pages is a vaild site to gather info on they said,"Retards and Dumbutts change things on that webstite too screw suckers like you up"(Are english techer said that seriously) then i asked if we were allowed to use any site with the words Wiki infront of the site name and i got ISS, FOR 3 WEEKS. What do i do to convice them its a vaild site when they ignore me?4.240.54.208 Hate school —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.240.54.208 (talk) 00:40, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Well it isnt a valid site to use. Misplaced Pages is a faluire becuase of its core polocy:That anymone can edit it. Try citizumdum or something like that. Its an off shoot of wikipedia but im prett sure all the pages are fact checked by experts. Eskater11 02:14, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Try this. Two important things to remember are that all of the old versions at a page still exist in the history, So Vandals never actuary destroy information, and that all encyclopedias are only intended for reference. Even The big name printed ones contain errors.--APL 02:34, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Try use the references in the article as your sources, not Misplaced Pages. Generally tertiary sources such as encyclopaedia are not suitable sources in general, and it's better to track down better sources using Misplaced Pages than outright listing Misplaced Pages as a source. --antilived 03:20, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages can be used educationally - but with care. I don't think the complaint that vandalism makes it useless is a reasonable one. There are errors in all encyclopedias and the number of errors in Misplaced Pages (despite vandalism) is about the same as 'big name' paper encyclopedias like Encyclopedia Britannica - and much better than other online encyclopedias like Encarta. Vandalism is easy to spot in almost every case. If the article on George Washinton says "George Washington was SO gay - just like Nigel." ...then you can be pretty sure it's vandalism. You can use the 'history' mechanism to look back at a version of the article from a day or two earlier - it's exceptionally unusual for vandalism to remain in an article for more than a day or two - so if you can see that a fact was added in the last few hours - then you should probably ignore it. So in that regard, there should be no more problems with Misplaced Pages than with Britannica. However, the problem with both Misplaced Pages and Britannica is that we are both 'secondary sources' - we report only what other books say - we don't add any new knowledge. The correct way to use any encyclopedia is to read around a subject, get a good overall view of it - then use the references in the articles to look up the relevent primary sources - which you ought to be able to find in a decent library. These primary sources are what you should be using in reports and essays at school. In my opinion, teachers should realise that Misplaced Pages is a MAJOR part of our modern world of knowledge. It is rapidly becoming the one source of all human knowledge - give it 10 years and I think it'll be recognised as being the biggest improvement in human knowledge collection since the invention of the library. Teachers need to teach kids how to use Misplaced Pages - not simply tell them to ignore it.

For example: I have consulted Misplaced Pages three times this evening. The first time, my kid said that he wanted to see the new movie "Sweeny Todd" - I explained that I knew the plot, that it was a very old story - but I wasn't sure if it was rooted in fact. 20 seconds later - we knew the answer (it dates back to the 1800's and it's almost certainly pure fiction). Then, I was listening to a CD-book about Einstein on the way home yesterday and I wanted to check something about Bose-Einstein condensates...again, Misplaced Pages had the answer. Then, thirdly, I needed to check my own article on the Mini in order to answer a question from a friend in my local car club about the Australian Mini Coopers. These are all things that I could never have figured out before - even with a $1500 copy of Britannica - there is simply no way.

But I most certainly wouldn't use Misplaced Pages's coverage for writing a scientific paper or a class paper. For that, I'd consult Misplaced Pages to find out what references were provided and head off to the library to track them down so I could read the original material. Actually, with Google Books, it's becoming possible to find a lot of that stuff without a trip to the library - but using Misplaced Pages to find a useful book is a HUGE help.

So teachers need to teach valid research techniques using Misplaced Pages (and the entire Internet for that matter) - putting their heads in the sand and hoping it'll just go away is very, very short-sighted.

SteveBaker 03:23, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

That was the best answer i have ever seen steve. Im almost about to give you a barnstar for it. Eskater11 03:50, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

One excellent example of why Misplaced Pages shouldn't generally be taken on face value is our article on The Upper Peninsula War. Remove the big purple tag from the top and I doubt many would think anything out of the usual was going on with the article. If it hadn't been rumbled early on (back before the tag), I have a feeling we'd've woken up to see it in national papers farther down the line. GeeJo ⁄_(c) • 06:38, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

But you are missing the point that it ISN'T any longer a part of the encyclopedia (it's a user page) and it does indeed have a big purple tag on the top. Your reaction is "OMG! This terrible thing can happen!" - but it ought to be "Wow! Even a really cleverly designed fake will be found out and removed quite quickly." - this is the strength of Misplaced Pages - not a weakness. Also, we are not the only ones who suffer from this. One infamous example of this was the 1975 New Columbia Encyclopedia which contained a completely fictitious entry on "Lillian Virginia Mountweazel" that survived through two subsequent reprintings before it was caught and removed. SteveBaker 14:55, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

We're a tertiary source by the way --ffroth 19:08, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

You will never get your teachers to accept wikipedia as a valid site for research. If you are looking up something in general, than sure, you could probably use it. Like the Four moods or temperaments. I had no idea what they were, so I checked here and they gave me good explanations that helped a lot. But you definitely cannot use Wikis for a paper or cite it.

online games not intended as games

Many sites have online games . In contrast, some sites are used as "games" although not intended as such, is this not so? I'm wondering if there is a list of "online games" somewhere that enumerates this latter kind of "online game".

For example, imagine if there were a game called plant that phrase where players take turns generating arbitrary word sequences, (such as, "ye shall be my concubine", or "thereupon envisaged") and then go off and try to find a Misplaced Pages article where that phrase fits. Players get points for phrase length, number of days remaining in the article, and other things.

Obviously, such a "game" is contrary to the purpose of a site like Misplaced Pages, but I bet there has to be someone out there who knows of the existence of many such "games". Anyone know if my hunch is correct? dr.ef.tymac 00:40, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Sam~ from the first sentence im guessing such game woud be a advergameChild Unit Sam 21:43, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 4.240.54.208 (talk) 01:02, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Google can be used for entertainment.Google Wack is my favorite, but see also .--APL 02:24, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I have a very vague recollection that something almost exactly similar used to happen on wikipedia. I think it was something to do with inserting completely innocuous changes into articles and earning points based on how strange you can make the wording, and how long it lasts. There was a Misplaced Pages-namespace article for it, but IIRC it was deleted to discourage people from trying it --ffroth 19:12, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

There is a totally innocuous (and mildly fun) game that can be played on Misplaced Pages. A player is given a random starting page (assigned using the random article button) and a goal page (chosen in the same manor). The goal is to get from the start page to the goal page as fast as possible using only in article links. Portals pages and categories are banned. Several players can compete for the lowest time, but the game is also quit addictive played solo. --S.dedalus 08:04, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

There are actually tunes of games people play on Misplaced Pages. Check this site out. There are many more. Check this Google search.--S.dedalus 08:10, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Epsom salt in Meth

Dear Misplaced Pages contributors, Which method(s) of producing methamphetamines, such as Birch Reduction methods and Red-P method, requires the use of Epsom salt 71.18.216.110 04:10, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I have no experience with methamphetamine synthesis, but from the instructions available online, it seems like Epsom salt is only used as a drying agent (the anhydrous form). So Epsom salt (MgSO₄) in particular isn't important; you could also use CaCl₂ or NaOH or some other desiccant. —Keenan Pepper 05:02, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

That's lame. They didn't ask for how to make drugs, they were curious about the procedure. There are many legitimate reasons someone might want to know at the chemistry of meth labs; I had a guy in my building who I suspected was making meth on the side and it was useful to be able to look up the chemicals involved before I went forward with serious accusations, etc. And this sort of question isn't exactly going to tell someone how to do it, anyway. In any case, Misplaced Pages:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_censored. Ease up, self-appointed representatives of censorship. --24.147.86.187 17:33, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

It's not illegal to ask, tell or know about methods of chemical synthesis. DuncanHill 17:37, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Honey dipper

Does anyone know why the honey dipper has this particular shape? Keria 17:02, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

It provides the maximim possible surface area for the honey to stick to. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SteveBaker (talk • contribs) 18:01, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Common English football/soccer chant

I've heard this tune sung many times while watching football on tv but could never make out the lyrics or where the tune came from. Here's a video I found of some fans chanting it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_7COcsadjI

Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.12.195.96 (talk) 17:11, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

It's "Papa's Got A Brand New Pigbag" by Pigbag. Foxhill 17:58, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually I was referring to the chant after that, in the second half of the video. But thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.12.195.96 (talk) 06:33, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

It's this:

And it's ... F.C.
We're by far the greatest/finest team
The world has ever seen

The team in the video is difficult to work out (not sure what stadium it is, either). Could be Watford F.C.'s name. Short team names don't work very well in the chant - four syllables are ideal and Watford's measly two might account for the garbled name. Then again, the second time the name is sung it doesn't sound much like "Watford" at all.

NB The objective accuracy of the description "by far the greatest team/The world has ever seen" is never an issue when this song is sung. --Dweller 07:35, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

It's Wolverhampton Wand'rers, trying to fit the name to the scan! -- Arwel (talk) 21:40, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I wonder which is worse, 2 syllables or 7? Norwich City, btw, is just about perfect. At least that's one thing NCFC is good at. --Dweller 22:31, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh right the second tune is the chorus to The Wild Rover, popular wherever 3 or 4 or more inebriated people may be congregating. Foxhill 20:53, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Olympics

When will chessboxing become an olympic sport? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.185.128.148 (talk) 18:27, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Impossible to predict without speculating. It would need considerably more global appeal first. --Dweller 07:30, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

xenophobia

in the u. s. this isn't a big issue...anymore. but if i wanted to emigrate, where would the natives hate me the most —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.185.128.148 (talk) 18:38, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I suppose that would depend on who you are. If you're a member of the fur people, don't move to Sudan. If you're a nazi, don't think of immigrating to Germany- you'll not be well-recieved. --ffroth 19:03, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

France has a reputation for anti-Americanism, but I think North Korea has it beat in that regard. -- Mwalcoff 22:34, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I always thought the US is one of the most xenophobic developed countries... --antilived 00:49, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

(Full disclosure - I've lived in the U.S. almost all of my life). United States#Demographics says "The United States has a very diverse population — thirty-one ancestry groups have more than a million members." and "As of 2004, 12 percent of the U.S. population was foreign-born." That means that about one in eight people in the U.S. came from a different country. Most stereotypes are built upon a caricature of an extreme. In this case, it seems fair to say that the stereotype does not fit the facts. There is some prejudice left in the U.S. but with one in eight being foreign-born I think it is safe to say that the U.S. as a whole isn't really that xenophobic. 152.16.59.190 04:31, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't think one in eight is that much compared to other rich countries, I'd say it is average. --Taraborn 09:39, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I doubt you'd be popular in some middle eastern countries either. To be honest in the UK we quite like americans as individuals but have problems with the actions of your leaders and government. Exxolon 22:06, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Plus sign

I have heard the claim that in some Israeli schools a symbol similar to an inverted T is used to represent addition, rather than the usual plus sign (+). Is this a myth or correct? /Yuslo 20:38, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

You mean ⊥? Table_of_mathematical_symbols says it can mean Perpendicular, Greatest element, or Comparability --ffroth 20:52, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

It's in Unicode as HEBREW LETTER ALTERNATIVE PLUS SIGN. But that's all I know about it. -- BenRG 01:16, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

It's discussed on the talk page of the article on plus and minus signs, but apparently it was removed from the main article for lack of verification. — Michael J 07:30, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I know from personal experience that this is indeed true. Jon513 15:34, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Authentic Nautica jacket?

Last week, I bought a Nautica windbreaker/jacket from a discount store near my house. It was discounted heavily and I am wondering if I bought an authentic Nautica jacket or a counterfeit? Are there any tests I can perform or things I should look for? --Blue387 22:08, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Compare it to the same product from a reputable supplier? I guess you could maybe try using it within the boundaries of what they claim (i'm assuming they have things like 'works up to minus X degrees). ny156uk 23:41, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

The company might be able to tell you some common characteristics of knock-off copies. Common give aways are typos and grammar errors on the labelling, bad or missing stitching on normally non-visible areas, and so on, but these give no indication as to the quality of fabric used in the manufacturing. Steewi 01:31, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Tank explosions

I'm a fan of the Call of Duty series and during the game whenever a tank is shot of bombed the top of the turrert always seems to go like 20 feet in the air and seperates from the actual track. Is this that actual way a tank would react and if not how do they actualy react. Eskater11 23:52, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I think you mean that the turret separates from the rest of the tank and goes airborne? Depending on how the tank is damaged, yes, this can happen. It certainly doesn't always happen, and the frequency probably varies by tank model. This sort of damage typically results from an attack detonating the ammunition stored in the turret. — Lomn 19:29, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

This is probably coded into the game to make it clear the tank is destroyed. In real life it's possible to take out a tank with little apparant external physical sign, for instance if you hit it with an antitank weapon which doesn't penetrate fully but causes the interior to spall and chop the crew into mincemeat. The tank will simply stop moving with not much external evidence of that. Exxolon 22:04, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I seem to remember reading that the classic Soviet tanks (eg T-54) tended to do this. The turret ring was weaker than on most tanks and so an internal explosion tended to pop it off. 81.2.81.111 22:13, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Which country has the biggest dick?

I was depressed to learn that my favorite phallic monument, the Washington Monument, is actually considerably shorter than France's equally phallic Eiffel Tower. And suddenly I needed to know- what country could boast that it has the world's largest penis? -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 23:57, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

CN Tower in Toronto, Canada, until the Burj Dubai is completed in 2008, that is. Bielle 00:01, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

• Actually, the incomplete structure in Dubai has already overtaken the CN Tower. --Anon, 03:52, November 12.

Oh, I don't know. Girth counts at least as much as length height, so I say it's the USA with the Vehicle Assembly Building. --Milkbreath 00:37, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

That is quite a choad... --antilived 00:47, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

No offense or anything, but I'm tired of people considering every tall, thin structure to be phallic. The Washington Monument doesn't look like a penis. It looks like a toothpick. The Eiffel Tower doesn't look like a penis. The CN Towner doesn't look like a penis.

THIS is what a penis looks like. The top, anyway. (SFW) -- Mwalcoff 02:41, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

This is a giant phallus, or rather something goes on top of a giant phallus. Also, the cylinder in the head quarter of Fuji Latex is supposed to be a giant phallus is well. --antilived 03:08, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

See also London's Erotic Gherkin. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 03:36, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

The United States can probably boast the most powerful Dick in the world. FiggyBee 03:38, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

We seem to be forgetting what one great philosopher referred to as "America's wang." - Eron 16:59, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

November 12

# of people to crew a ship

Approximately how many people would it take to crew a fairly big old-fashioned sailing ship? (I don't know a whole lot about ships, so I can't be more specific than that, but I kind of have the Black Pearl from Pirates of the Caribbean in mind. So about that size, but without the supernatural capabilities, lol.) Also, would it be legal to sail a ship like that nowadays, if it was newly built, but as though it had been built three hundred years ago with no modern features? (I know I'm not supposed to ask legal questions on here, but it's a purely hypothetical question; it's not as though I'm looking for legal advice. I'm just curious.) 131.162.146.86 01:02, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm clueless as to crew numbers, but as to the legality of the vessel, outside of any country's national waters, there's little to stop you doing most things. Within a country's waters, you are expected (as I understand it) to be registered as a vessel with one country or other. Getting registered in, for example, the United States, or the UK, would mean proving that the vessel was seaworthy (i.e. not about to sink) and safe (has amenities guaranteeing a certain degree of hygiene, among other things). Registering an oceangoing vessel with a small country via bribery and corruption has somewhat of a long history in shipping. I don't think there would be a problem registering a sailing vessel (see STS Young Endeavour for one example) in itself. Steewi 01:38, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

On registering a ship in a country with lax regulations, see flag of convenience. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 02:22, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

To give an indication of the crew required: the Batavia (ship), had a crew of 303. This may seem a huge number, but it includes 26 soldiers, 14 cannoneers, 7 accountants, a smith, a locksmith, 9 carpenters, 2 barbers, coopers and various other professions. The crew you would need really depends on what you want to do with the ship besides sailing.

Regarding the legality: the replica of the Batavia actually sailed a small stretch near Sydney, and is certified to sail with passengers. - Dammit 02:24, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

The Matthew had a crew of 18, and a replica recently sailed the Atlantic. DuncanHill 02:26, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

There are a number of sailing ships still sailing as historical reenactments, youth training ships, military training ships, cruise ships, and expensive yachts. Tall ship festivals regularly draw a couple dozen ships. Even some historical ships still sail rarely - like the U.S.S. Constitution. Crews sizes vary by type and size. The U.S. Coast Guard sailing ship USCG Eagle has a crew of over 200 {many being trained) while the Bluenose has only 18. The Royal Clipper has a crew of 106 and carries 227 passengers. Rmhermen 02:42, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

The idea of a pirate ship having accountants just makes me laugh. Corvus cornix 21:33, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Ridiculous - they wouldn't last five minutes against the insurance clerks. Gandalf61 14:05, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

It is not so much how many are needed to sail the ship. How many are needed, on a pirate or warship to fight the vessel ? The last square riggers working around the Horn had a crew of about 28 seamen, plus carpenter, sailmaker, cook, apprentices and officers. But the Sovereign of the Seas, a 100 gun ship from 1638 had a tonnage of only 1,605 - but a wartime crew of 815!86.200.3.126 15:21, 12 November 2007 (UTC)petitmichel

Oh wow, thanks everybody! You've helped me even more than I expected. :) 131.162.146.86 20:06, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

What does cum taste like

seriously whats it taste like?? women or gay guys help me. 98.204.154.144 03:54, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Or straight guys who've tasted their own, right? If you're male, then you presumably have a ready supply of the stuff. I'm also told that the taste varies, both from person to person and in response to dietary changes. Googling for "taste of semen" will provide you with ample information, most of which adds up to: "it varies". -GTBacchus 03:58, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Is it true eating a lot of fruit makes it sweeter? What about vaginal fluid? --124.254.77.148 06:13, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

UGH! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.137.69 (talk) 09:37, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Vaginal fluid tastes a lot like aroused genitals smell - very musky, heavy taste, and rather salty. Kuronue | Talk 16:50, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

In one word: delicious

Personality disorders

How do we know when someones personality is a disorder? What if people with ADHD and ADD are just hyper and easily distracted? What if people with OCPD are just neatfreaks? What if people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder are just a bit too full of themselves? I'm not saying these disorders don't exist, or that they shouldn't be taken seriously, but how do we know when a personality is outside the "realm of normality"? --Candy-Panda 08:11, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

You assess. Then you get out your Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders and have a flick through. You should also check the critisism section of this article. It is also possible to exhibit symptoms of many but fall into the category of none. For instance you can be narcissistic but not have Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I have actually been tested and assessed and attend psychiatry however have no diagnosis of any mental illness. "The most significant pattern emerging confirms a narcissistic personality pattern.", however, "He presents with an inflated yet insecure sense of self worth…". It is a sensitive field, I won't say it is an inexact science as that would do it an injustice, however rather than a bacteria or virus that will manifest itself much more uniformly, mental illness varies from person to person. You might want to phone a local help line or discuss it with a health professional if you have personal worries. Self diagnosis is dangerous and one tends to assume the worst. My favourite is "…an indifference to the feelings of others, displaying at times a marked lack of empathy…". Currently my mood is controlled by C₁₇H₁₈F₃N₁O. It has pros and cons like anything. I also possibly have Adult ADHD but have not been assessed as such. I also was sceptical some mental illness and just thought people needed a good kick up the ass, however when you get to experience it first hand it changes your perspective, and that's from a man with a marked lack of empathy. Lanfear's Bane | t 10:36, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I have an anecdote or two, and I'll preface it by saying I'm not a psychologist or a psychology student, but I'd like to share anyway: I've met and known a narcissist or two (and many would say many celebrities are even narcissists). Trouble is a psychologist might not have enough to label them as such, although certainly the loose-term 'narcassistic' would have been easily applied. There is a checklist of narcassistic symptoms, for example things like the male narcissist somehow telling his wife what time she should go to bed, or absolutely seemingly incapable of ever admitting wrong. Another narcissistic symptom - one that I believe would leave your psychologist with little doubt -- were if you had to have pitched up at your sessions claiming to know more about psychology or your problems than your psychologist, as if you are so brilliant you are even better than your doctor, your psychologist, etc (the narcissist may even take the time to extensively research the subject even not conscious of the motives of their research). As with many other psychology labels you'd have to fit into a checklist and 'score enough points' in the checklist in order to be diagnosed -- to be clear and not insult any psychologists, they would still have to apply his/her own opinion as to the application of each checkpoint. My point has been that even if psychologists don't have enough to label a person as an outright narcissist doesn't make that person not a narcissist. I believe the one test they apply is if your narcissism affects your ability to interact with other people or how it ultimately affects your personality, in the same way that one can skip the Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder label if it doesn't affect your life too much. Rfwoolf (talk) 18:27, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

I also had trouble defining if the core of narcissism is insecurity, i.e. an actual low self esteem, or its opposite, because the result is someone that pretends to have an extraordinarily inflated ego, without exhibiting some of the ordinary symptoms of an insecure person. For example I've met plenty of people that brag and show off, yet these people seem to show signs of major insecurity and lower self esteem. I think the one thing I remembered reading about narcists is that many think they are brilliant because many of them actually are. Rfwoolf (talk) 18:30, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Momentary pain that never appears again

This question has been removed. Per the reference desk guidelines, the reference desk is not an appropriate place to request medical, legal or other professional advice, including any kind of medical diagnosis, prognosis, or treatment recommendations. For such advice, please see a qualified professional. If you don't believe this is such a request, please explain what you meant to ask, either here or on the Reference Desk's talk page.

Please do not repost medical questions. You are describing a condition and asking us to diagnose and name this condition. This constitutes medical advice. Please consult a professional or refer the person with the problem to a professional. Lanfear's Bane | t 13:58, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

You misconstrue the rule. Obviously I am not asking for a diagnosis for myself--or anyone. That is the intention of the rule. You should find something else to do. You disrupt this section of Misplaced Pages. 66.91.225.183 21:26, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

This question has been removed. Per the reference desk guidelines, the reference desk is not an appropriate place to request medical, legal or other professional advice, including any kind of medical diagnosis, prognosis, or treatment recommendations. For such advice, please see a qualified professional. If you don't believe this is such a request, please explain what you meant to ask, either here or on the Reference Desk's talk page.

This question has been removed. Per the reference desk guidelines, the reference desk is not an appropriate place to request medical, legal or other professional advice, including any kind of medical diagnosis or prognosis, or treatment recommendations. For such advice, please see a qualified professional. If you don't believe this is such a request, please explain what you meant to ask, either here or on the Reference Desk's talk page. --~~~~ Please stop reposting this question, three times is taking the piss. Nricardo please do not encourage this behaviour by reposting twice removed edits. Lanfear's Bane | t 19:30, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I would suggest offhand that most people who have had this pain have probably forgotten it, given that it happened only once in their whole lives. --Trovatore 00:50, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I would suggest that Lanfear's Bane acted entirely appropriately. This is asking for a name and explanation of a particular sort of pain. That is asking for a diagnosis. It is asking for medical advice, and I do not for a moment believe that the person asking the question has not experienced this , nor that they have seen a medical professional about it. Skittle 13:29, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I have not reposted this three times. I reposted it. Then someone I do not know stepped in for me. You outright lie now because YOU are in violation of the rules. Are you aware of 3R? Like I said before get out of the reference desk.132.239.90.49 22:32, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

What is the British Gary, Indiana? Appalachia?

What is the British equivalent to these American urban and rural areas that are very poor?

66.91.225.183 10:05, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Like Gary, many industrial cities in the UK suffered greatly during the 1970s and 80s. Sheffield and Glasgow are two examples that spring to mind. As for rural areas, mining districts such as South Wales and West Yorkshire were historically quite poor and have also suffered with the decline of industry in the last 50 years. FiggyBee 10:57, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

As FiggyBee points out, many UK cities, particularly those in the North of England suffered from the decline of heavy industry although even London suffered from this, with its previously busy dockyards becoming deserted and a wasteland - partly due to the decline of manufacturing and partly due to larger container ships being used that were too large for the old docks - new docks downstream were built. Liverpool and Middlesbrough have suffered much the same fate.GaryReggae 11:33, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

For a slightly different take on this, I'd nominate Bristol. Why? Frank Cooper changed his name to Gary Cooper in 1925, following the advice of casting director Nan Collins, who felt it evoked the "rough, tough" nature of her native Gary, Indiana. In some ways, Cary Grant was a sort of British-born counterpart of Gary Cooper. Cary Grant was born in Bristol. They had almost identical first names, and they also appeared in 2 movies together, Devil and the Deep (1932) and Alice in Wonderland (1933), in which Cooper played the White Knight and Grant the Mock Turtle. (I think I've said enough.) -- JackofOz 12:23, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Gary, IN is a hopeless shell of a city. It's been called the Pompeii of the American Rust Belt. Are Sheffield and Glasgow still comparable? 66.91.225.183 13:03, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

For a very poor rural area of Britain - Cornwall. DuncanHill 13:07, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I could be wrong, but while I am aware of impoverished parts of many British cities (inner London has some of the most deprived communities anywhere in the country) I can't think of any that are totally impoverished. I'm also not aware of Brits referring colloquially to certain cities as poor, except, generally/jovially, in the poor-taste In your Provincial/Northern slums song that used to be popular in London versus northern football team matches. Most of our cities tend to be poor in parts and some are worse than others. But, as I say, I don't believe that Brits tend to refer to a specific place or places as being particularly poor. --Dweller 15:31, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I guess then there is no British equivalent to Gary, IN. A city that is hopelessly bleak. But what Appalachia? There is a rural region that is very poor and culturally insular, set far apart from the national culture? 66.91.225.183 22:35, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Very poor, culturally insular, set far apart from the national culture = Cornwall. DuncanHill 22:39, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't say Cornwall was *that* impoverished. I don't know what Appalchia is truly like but there are no areas of the UK that are completely bleak and insular. The closest thing I can think of are parts of South Wales such as Brynmawr where all the industry and employment has gone (thanks to Margaret Thatcher, particularly coal mines and steel works. Somebody else has pointed out Cornwall but I disagree - while it is definitely insular, the tourism trade is huge due to the lovely coastline and activities such as surfing. Although it may have a regional economy, it is surely no worse than any of the UK's struggling seaside towns such as Southport and Margate. Cornwall has never been a very industrial county, there used to be tin mining in the area but all that finished years ago. GaryReggae 23:03, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Tourist trade = low skills, low wages, part-time working, seasonal working. Some of the lowest wages in Britain and the highest house-prices. Only part of southern England to qualify for Objective One funding. Only Objective One area in Europe where the funding is administered from outside area. Poor transport links with the rest of the country. Poor levels of public transport. Police service run from out of county. What tourists see of Cornwall ain't reality. DuncanHill 21:27, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Along the lines set out by Gary, I nominate Merthyr Tydfil. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:16, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

If we're talking impoverished slum towns in South Wales, Newport trumps Merthyr. Neil ☎ 10:36, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Impoverished slum town? Newport was recently Ranked 7th in the UK in a table showing the predicted economic strength of cities outside of central London and the south east. Owain (talk) 17:01, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Surely the British "Gary, Indiana" needs to be a town whose name is used in a key way in a song from musical theater. But the closest thing to British musical theater that I can think of is Gilbert and Sullivan. So maybe Titipu?

And I shouldn't be surprised if they should tremble

Before the mighty troops, the troops of Titipu

Hmm, it's not quite up to "Gary, Indiana, Gary INDiana, Gary, Indiana". Maybe someone can do better. --Trovatore 04:46, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Well if it's an appropriate G&S reference you're looking for, why not Basingstoke? - Eron 14:56, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

No one has linked to Appalachia? The page is not a great one, but gives some idea of what this region is like. In this question thread the assumption seems to be that Appalachia is rural, very poor, culturally insular, and "far from the national culture". This sounds more like the stereotype than the reality. The region is sometimes defined broadly, including most of the Appalachian Mountains in the US, and sometimes narrowly. Perhaps the OP was thinking of a narrow definition -- an area around eastern Kentucky and southern West Virginia perhaps? Much of this region is quite impoverished and rural (if "rural" includes massive coal mining operations and logging as well as farming). I'm not sure what "culturally insular" means. If it means the region's culture is strikingly unlike the rest of the US, then Appalachia fits the bill (as do other regions, New England for example).

I'm not familiar enough with the UK to say what an equivalent region would be. If we're talking about about the "narrowly defined" Appalachia of rugged terrain, lots of coal mining, "hardscrabble farming", and widespread poverty -- the first place I thought of in the UK was Wales. Historically, as I understand it, many Welsh immigrants ended up in Appalachia, in part because it was a region where the kind of labor and knowledge common in Wales was needed (coal mining especially, but also such things as hardscrabble farming and methods of raising livestock in rugged mountainous terrain). I'd go further and suggest that the poverty and unusual culture of Appalachia is mainly due to the fact that it is a mountainous region. So rather than look for a region of the UK with poverty and an odd culture, I'd suggest looking for one with mountains (and coal mining) first, then see if it also has poverty issues and a culture differing from the national norm. So... I'm still thinking, doesn't that sound more like Wales than anywhere else in the UK? Forgive my ignorant of Wales and the UK if I'm off base.

Finally I just wanted to mention that if we're talking about Appalachia in the larger (and probably more common) sense, then we're talking about a quite different region. Pfly 07:07, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

As a resident (though not a native) of Bradford I would suggest that Bradford's reputation is somewhat close to what you're asking, though not its reality. Even cities with some sort of grim reputation such as Sheffield and Glasgow seem nevertheless to have some sort of grandeur in the popular imagination, but for some reason Bradford does not. --ColinFine (talk) 21:41, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Business finance

What is pinpoint equity, and how does it work ?

62.173.96.12 11:16, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

A quick search suggest it is 'a high debt to equity ratio' - Debt to equity ratio explains what a debt to equity ratio is. To be fair this is all over my head, so couldn't explain what it means, just working on use from search-results. ny156uk 17:49, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages logo

The wikipedia logo in the top left corner of most wikipedias, a globe made up of jigsaw pieces, with characters from various languages. Where did it come from? Is the an original about? The reason I ask, is I was click about the various language wikipedias, and noticed that the lithuanian wikipedia has almost the same logo, but missing a few little marks near the letters. I thought it was kinda odd that somebody removed them. But then I thought, maybe thats how it used to be, and somebody added them to the other wikipedias. Anyway, sorry for rambling on, any help would be appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.13.221.240 (talk) 12:23, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I didn't understand the question "Is the an original about?". Did you mean "Is there anything original about it?"? -- JackofOz 12:28, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

It's a typo I think (meant to be "is the original about" - i.e. is the source file available anywhere). 86.13, see Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages logos for the history of the logo and info on how the current version came about. I have no idea why the Lituanian Misplaced Pages is missing those little bits. — Matt Eason 12:52, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

The earliest copy of Commons:Image:Misplaced Pages-logo-en.png appears to have these marks already (the smooth breathing by the Ω and the breve that turns the и into й. But presumably there must have been an earlier stage when it lacked these - not just Lithuanian, but also (for example), Arabic and Belarussian lack them as well. (In August this year, somebody asked essentially the same question on the logo's talk page) --ColinFine (talk) 22:02, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Triple AAA with rifles

I was wondering what the official title of the MOS in the USMC which is colloquially known as 'Mr. Goodwrench'. Anybody know? --MKnight9989 13:07, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Obviously it refers to motor mechanics. Take a look at Field 35, Motor Transport, or Field 21, Ordnance for Armoured Vehicle mechanics. FiggyBee 13:39, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

But do these guys do repairs under fire? I'm getting my info from One Bullet Away: The Making of a Marine Officer, and the author briefly mentions his beneficial encounter with Mr. Goodwrench. --MKnight9989 13:51, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Identify this song

Hi, does anyone know the song at the very start of this YouTube video: . This orchestral song is possibly linked in some way to socialism but I do not know what the piece is called (if anything). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.208.110.207 (talk) 14:10, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

It is the March of the Montagues and Capulets from Prokoffiev's ballet Romeo & Juliet. DuncanHill 14:21, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.208.110.207 (talk) 02:38, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Would this be akin to "killing" in court?

I am not in any way asking for legal advice here. The question is a mere curiosity. Take this case: Say someone is drowning in a lake, and I'm witnessing the drowning from the shore. The person yells for help as she struggles to stay above the surface, and I have the capability to save her because I have with me a life jacket. If I, for some reason, refuse to help the person and she died from drowning, am I legally culpable? Assume that the incident is witnessed by others (say that the incident is on tape). Also assume that I had no "malicious" intent (I had never met the person, and I merely didn't feel like helping her).

In short, do people have the obligation to save another's life if there's a clear ability to do so?128.163.116.52 16:29, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Well first off if you wernt chraged you would be considered a DICK forever, but its possible you could be charge with something like manslaughter or something. Eskater11 16:37, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

IMO, morally - yes there is a clear obligation, and to kill by an act of omission is not very different from killing by an act of comission. Legally - this will vary by jurisdiction. I understand that in France a person in such a situation could be prosecuted, and that many other countries with laws based on the Napoleonic Code may have similar provisions. DuncanHill 16:38, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

My understanding of US and English law is that if you just happened to be there with a lifejacket, you wouldn't have committed a crime, although depending on the jurisdiction you may be vulnerable to a civil action of negligence. If you had a more significant duty of care than just being there (for example, if you were employed as a lifeguard by the owners of the lake) and you were negligent, then it's possible you could be charged with manslaughter. FiggyBee 16:46, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I can't speak as to whether or not one is obliged to act if one is able to do so; that would be legal advice. I can suggest that proving anyone has the ability to do anything at a point in the present, never mind the past, might be next to impossible. I have the life jacket, but perhaps I am wearing it because I can't swim and am near the water. Perhaps I am afraid of the water. Perhaps I have a physical problem that prevents me from throwing anything. Even if I am wearing the life jacket, overcome my fears and set out to reach her, she could, in her distress, injure or perhaps even kill me in trying to save herself; is that, to me, a risk worth taking? I could think she was playing a game until the reality hit, and it was too late to respond. If I can come up with that just as I type (though granted I don't type fast!), just think what a defence attorney could do! Bielle 16:48, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Something a little like this happened in the UK recently - the BBC has a number of stories on it. Long & short: those who stood by were not prosecuted, and, indeed, were defended by their employer, the local police force. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tagishsimon (talk • contribs) 16:51, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Long and longer, Having heard a police spokesman deal with this at length, the case is more complex than the media mostly cared to present, as the facts were inconvenient to a true story. It's a blatant misrepresentation to say that that case is similar to the theoretical one presented above. --22:29, 12 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dweller (talk • contribs)

To be honest with a good lawyer I doubt you could come to much harm. Showing that you are not a strong swimmer and were unprepared would be a good starting point. Look at the recent case where those three people on holiday drowned trying to save those children. The children survived and are now orphans. I am sure I have seen statistics showing that people who dive in to save people in distress in water are more likely to end up drowning themselves than saving the person. If no one was watching, I personally would leave them to drown. I say leave, I would watch, you are not going to get that opportunity creep up too many times in your lifetime. Lanfear's Bane | t 16:52, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

As with all things legal, it largely depends where you are, under whose laws you are governed. Some countries have what are known as Good Samaritan laws that require you to aid someone in distress if it would not be putting yourself in harm's way, or to at least call an emergency number. If you are in one of those countries (Canada, Israel, Italy, Japan, France, Belgium, Germany, Andorra, and Spain). In the United States, there is no legal requirement to give any aid to a victim unless you are materially responsible for their situation or a caretaker of the victim (e.g. they are your child or your elderly father or whatever). (In the US, a Good Samaritan law means something else; e.g. a law protecting unqualified responders from possible legal redress if they screw up. Gotta love a country that cares more about being sued than it does about helping others.) Now note that this is all from a criminal point of view; in the US I would not be surprised if you could win a civilian judgment against someone who did not respond but was clearly able to. But I don't know a whole lot about such things. --24.147.86.187 17:24, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

• This is a classic question for law school professors to ask in the first week of class. Generally, in common law nations like the USA and Britain, it's never a crime to sit still and do nothing -- which is used to drive home the larger point about how the American legal system is predicated on the idea that the government is always powerless where the law books are silent (see Tenth Amendment). But there's also the civil law, aka tort law question. Many goverments are is worried that people will sit on their hands because they're afraid that they'll get sued if they botch the rescue attempt, so there are good samaritan laws declaring that people can't get sued for a good-hearted but foolish or unlucky attempt to save someone. --M@rēino 19:08, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I'll just ask a further question, what if you were clearly afraid but had the capcity to save the person. ie. caught on tape running up and down at the edge of the water clearly panicking but with a lifejacket on?--Phoenix-wiki (talk · contribs) 21:30, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

It would not alter the situation beyond what has already been written. Either there are laws requiring you to do something (Canada, Israel, Italy, Japan, France, Belgium, Germany, Andorra, and Spain) or there are not. "clearly afraid but had the capacity" seem to point against eachother, to an extent; someone who is clearly frightened is in a poor mental state in which their decision making may well be impaired. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:34, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I suppose, thanks anyway--Phoenix-wiki (talk · contribs) 21:40, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

In Belgium and France you can indeed be charged with "non-assistance à personne en danger" (~~ non-assistance to person in distress). Driving by and away from the site of an isolated car crash without helping would be an example where you could be charged with the offence (I think it is penal). I don't know the maximum sentence. I remember a case that tested the limits of the law where in the early 90's a couple stopped at a car crash and realising they had to call the emercgency services they drove off to the nearest public or motorway phone, they were subsequently charged for not providing imediate help. I don't know what the outcome of the trial was (I suspect that if they phoned the emergencies they weren't found guilty). Keria 10:49, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

The final episode of Seinfeld had them thrown into jail for failing to give aid to someone. Apparently that's based on a New York state law. Corvus cornix 21:39, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Who wouldn't videotape a fat guy getting mugged (or was it carjacked?)?--MKnight9989 15:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Opera, The Bohemian Girl

I researched the Operetta, The Bohemian Girl, composed by Michael Balfe in 1843. My question is; which character performs the song, "You'll Remember Me", at the beginning of ActIII? My second question is what is the relationship of the song "You'll Remember Me" to the plot of the operetta? How do the lyrics fit the plot in ActIII? Thank you for your response.Rkwilder 20:05, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Sounds a lot like a homework question.--Dlo2012 22:05, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Thaddeus, according to this online libretto. As to the second question, I think you're going to have to read the libretto. The three lines which precede the song may assist ... it looks like Thaddeus has an inferiority complex of some sort.

Thaddeus: In the midst of so much luxury, so much wealth and grandeur, I thought you had forgotten me.

Arline: Forgotten you! Had I nothing else to remind me of you (pointing at her gypsy dress) this would always speak to me of you. Forgotten you!

Thaddeus: The scenes in which you now move, may drive from your memory every trace of the past, and I only come to ask -- to hope -- that you will sometimes think upon me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tagishsimon (talk • contribs) 22:11, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

HSBC Shareholders

I'm having an arguement with a friend, and I need to know if HSBC is owned primarily by Chinese interests still, or if it's floating on the LSE in 1991 has made it a primarily Americanised business? Thanks for the help,

Quincel82.153.143.213 22:46, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Probably neither of the above. Was it ever "owned primarily by Chinese interests"? I suspect it'll be owned mainly by pension & investment funds from around the world.--Tagishsimon (talk) 22:52, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

According to Hemscott HSBC holdings has 3 major shareholders who own 11.81% of the shares in issue between them. I couldn't find out the three are but they will likely be available online somewhere. Whilst likely not the 3 major shareholders the directors list as Stephen Green (1,707,786 shares), Michael Geoghegan (1,509,480 shares) and Douglas Flint (875,050 shares). I think there are rules about requiring major shareholders to be disclose to the public on list companies so they should be somewhere - probably in the annual report. ny156uk 23:52, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

If you look at the history of HSBC, you will see that it was founded by a Scot and has always been primarily a British institution, though with the globalization of capital, it has no doubt become less British. However, the headquarters is in London, and the CEO is British. Marco polo 02:54, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, remember that at the time of the bank's foundation, Hong Kong was a British colony and Shanghai was a complicated mess of Western enclaves. The bank was a British colonial institution. Algebraist 13:59, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

November 13

Perpetual impact

Has there been any study or logical argument concerning what sorts of actions can make an impact -- positive or negative -- on the world that will be felt forever, even after everyone who knew anyone who was alive at the time is dead? NeonMerlin 03:04, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes. WP:SIG's suggestion that signatures should not be distracting will, if acted on, live down through the years. --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:03, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

You might want to see the article on Thomas Midgley, Jr. who, according to his article (^ McNeill, J.R. Something New Under the Sun: An Environmental History of the Twentieth-Century World (2001) New York: Norton, xxvi, 421 pp. (as reviewed in the Journal of Political Ecology)) "had more impact on the atmosphere than any other single organism in Earth history." Lanfear's Bane | t 16:54, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

He was on QI last night. Poor sod. Strangled to death by his own invention. DuncanHill 22:28, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Let me rephrase the question: If after this life I am reincarnated infinitely many times to this same world, how can I make sure I spend those infinite future lives in a better world than if I never did anything? And if on the other hand I go to an eternal afterlife, how can I ensure that I will always rest with the knowledge that I still matter? (And while we're at it, has there been any study into how to handle the other possibilities, such as losing my memories of this life in the afterlife, or spending all my future lives in a world independent of this one?) NeonMerlin 06:59, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

M*A*S*Hes

In the M*A*S*H television show as well as in the film, Radar can hear the helicopters coming before anyone else and therefore knows that wounded soldiers are on the way. But I was watching an episode today where it starts with scenes from an aid station and there is a voice over of a medic calling Radar for the med-evac helicopters to come to the aid station. So were the helicopters and their pilots stationed at the MASHes and therefore Radar would have known far ahead of any incoming casualties? Or were they stationed at the aid stations and most of the series is more correct in showing that the MASH unit didn't know until shortly before the wounded started coming in that they had wounded coming in the first place? Dismas| 03:42, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Medevac helicopters were attached to a particular MASH, but all helicopters need a lot of maintenance (even small piston-powered ones like the Bell H-13) and are high-value targets, so I imagine they were actually based at airfields or other specialised maintenance facilities well away from the front lines. FiggyBee 04:17, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Just a thought re the MASH episode; is it possible that the choppers had just left the aid station with casualties? Thus the medic knows the choppers are heading for the MASH, and wants Radar to send them back for another sortie rather than letting them return to base. FiggyBee 07:14, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

In the novel, Radar was extensively described as having a number of attributes that made him a natural for the Signal Corps, including large ears set nearly perpendicular to his head and a slight degree of ESP. (I'm working from memory here; I lost my copy of the (excellent) novel years ago.) The description given to the character in the book didn't match up very well with the actor that played Radar in both the movie and TV show, but his ESP stayed intact. It expanded at a few points, I remember, to where he answered questions from commanding officers either before or simultaneous to the asking. Don't know if that is very material to your question, but thought it was worth mentioning. Faithfully, Deltopia 12:46, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Wavelength

Invisible rays of the spectrum with wavelengths shorter than violet are called.......? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.83.26 (talk) 09:22, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Ultraviolet! --antilived 09:28, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Or X-rays or gamma rays, depending or how much shorter than violet we're talking. Algebraist 13:52, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Chemical reaction

The smallest part of an element that can take part in a chemical reaction? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.83.26 (talk) 09:40, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

The first paragraph of Chemical reaction should shed some light on this. 152.16.16.75 10:14, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry thankyou for trying but it didn't really help!!

Elements are made up of atoms. Atoms are made up of three basic parts, neutrons, protons, and electrons. Now, re-read the first paragraph of the chemical reaction article with that in mind and you will have the answer to your homework. Dismas| 10:36, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

You may want to flip that around... -80.229.152.246 11:27, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

It was late, I was at work... I'm a failure as a teacher. Good thing I'm not one. Dismas| 13:04, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Eye abnormality

An abnormality of the eye characterised by opaque lenses? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.83.26 (talk) 10:29, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Cataracts? Dismas| 10:32, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

THANKS DUDE YOU REALLY HELPED ME OUT BIG TIME!!!!!! I'LL DO ANYTHING FOR YOU THATS DOABLE FOR ME!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.83.26 (talk) 10:38, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

If only all our enquirers were so grateful when we gave answers... ponders what exactly 'doable' would be?.. ;) Lemon martini 12:43, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I think he means that which can be done. in short he'll do anything that he can for you. Cryo921 17:07, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Still pondering what "doable" might mean . . . Bielle 05:23, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Doable adjective, "that can be done", Chambers Dictionary, 1983 edition, page 367. DuncanHill 05:27, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

That was the part that was bothering me... he'll do ANYTHING that he can for you... :) Lemon martini 17:21, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Licking your elbow isn't "doable". Unless you detach it first, of course. --Dweller 16:39, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

How to shrink a synthetic watch strap?

Wrist watch I posses is too big for my too slender arm. The watch strap is made of translucent rubber like material. All that needs to be done is new hole for the buckle. please tell me how to drill this hole?. I do not have any special equipments. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.220.46.27 (talk) 13:49, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

A hammer, a nail, and a piece of scrap wood to work on. Just punch a hole. — Lomn 14:05, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

A drill bit will probably chew it up, and if you poke a hole it will be too tight for the pin. To cut a hole with an X-acto knife would be difficult. I would call around to hobby shops and craft stores for a small enough hole punch. Or just walk into a jeweler's and they'll probably make a new hole for you on the spot for free. --Milkbreath 14:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Probably the best way would be to melt a hole using a very fine-tipped soldering iron - or perhaps (if you are VERY careful) a nail heated up on a stove and pressed in with a pair of pliers...this sounds dangerous though - and if you drop the nail, you'll make a mess of your watchstrap and/or burn yourself and/or set fire to your kitchen. SteveBaker 15:30, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Steve, behave yourself, no more semi-Rube Goldbergian suggestions please. Lanfear's Bane | t 16:42, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh c'mon, if you want to go Goldberg, you have to start like this - Heavy steel marble rests at one end of plastic tube which is resting on a fulcrum. Ice cube hold end of tube level; as it melts, the tube tilts so that the marble runs out and drops onto a push-button to turn on power to the heating element . . . --LarryMac | Talk 17:33, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Bah! Rube Goldburg wasn't a PROPER mad inventor - for that you need you need a Brit: Heath Robinson of course! SteveBaker 00:10, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

A Dremel Moto-Tool with a fine high-speed-steel cutter will do the job, and isn't too exotic. I'd use a ball-shaped cutter.

Atlant 18:02, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I'd use the melting technique. Any cutting technique will leave weak spots around the edge of the cut where a tear can start. --Carnildo 21:57, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Yep - that was my thought too. SteveBaker 00:10, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

The Dremel will likely melt the thermoplastic slightly as it cuts, especially if it's run at high speed.

Atlant 02:37, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Identity of Cartoonist for publishing in Readers Digest around 1940's and 1950's

The cartoonist in question may be named Sylverson or something like that. His/Her style: With just a few strokes of a pen he/she draws a laughing face. Many of the cartoons depict two or three little men running, tumbling over each other, or other action, with each face showing very clearly, excitement, happiness, etc.

I have visited several cartoon exhibits in museums; I have contacted a large cartoon museum by mail in the midwest, I forgot where; I have written to Readers Digest two times. All to no avail.

My goal: to Identify the cartoonist; to read the biography of the cartonist, if there is one; to learn, if possible, how he/she could make such happy faces seemingly so quickly glow on paper75.213.54.90 16:48, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

If you have a one of the pictures drawn by the Cartoonist they may have signed the picture. Cryo921 17:17, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

His name is Henry Syverson. Misplaced Pages doesn't have an article on him yet, but there's a little bit of biographical information here. You can find out more about his body of work by Googling him. MrRedact 15:57, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Early Jazz/Swing Lady

I am trying to find music similar to that of Ruth Etting, (see youtube) but with more of a little girl sound to her voice, she sang early in the previous century, I can see her face and hear her voice, in my head. She had short curly, dark hair. her music was more upbeat that Ruth Ettings, and her voice was not as(for wont of a better term)whining. I think she was in the 1920's or maybe 30's, interwar period anyway. I have painted a picture of her, and people keep asking me, whats it called, or whos she. well she is not Ruth Etting, though she did do some lovely work. Any help would be greatly appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.191.136.3 (talk) 17:06, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Billie Holliday had that kind of quality in her voice. Although not a singer, I think the classic example of the little-girly voice is Butterfly McQueen, who played Prissy in Gone With the Wind - "I don't know nothin' 'bout birthin' babies!". -- JackofOz 21:49, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Helen Kane is the singer you are looking for. Listen to a song on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVc1lB-YLXk&feature=related See sang the songs in Betty Boop films.

Writing in Accents

I was wondering if you could possibly direct me to a site or a book that would show how to write in different accents. I am writing a story and one of the characters is from Norway and another is from Africa but they speak english, I wanted to incorporate their dialects or how they would speak english with an accent because it is their second language. Is there something like this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.203.103.2 (talk) 19:20, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

It's called eye dialect (see). Just listen to the accent you want to render, and spell it all wrong according to what you hear, trying to match the phonetics, with no regard for the regular spelling. If that takes it too far to even read, back off a tad. --Milkbreath 20:05, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

And please consider not doing it - it really puts me off a book to discover it's been written like that. SteveBaker 23:55, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

As Strunk and White say, Do not use dialect unless your ear is good. I would probably modify it to say very good. --24.147.86.187 00:52, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Rudyard Kipling was a master of this - but few can reach his standard. DuncanHill 00:55, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Don't get it mixed up with what are considered by some to be 'proper' dialect spellings, such as Scots or Jamaican Patois. Consider using a single signal or two to be consistent (all 'w's become 'v's, for example), to show when someone is speaking in an accent, rather than trying to accurately represent the difference, which is more difficult than it seems. As SteveBaker says, it can be somewhat difficult to read dialogue when it uses non-standard spelling, so you need to consider whether it would detract from the content of what you're writing. To get around it, you can describe some of the dialect features adverbially ('...in his singsong accent' is a cliched version of this). Steewi 03:54, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

For an example of eye dialect gone horribly wrong, see The Two Ronnies in "Swedish Made Simple". --Milkbreath 18:18, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

• Usually describing the dialect at the first occurence and occasionally after that is enough for the reader to form their own idea of what you are trying to achieve and it will be a lot more readable. - Mgm| 20:14, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

That and tossing in phrases and odd words that are typical of that dialect. If your character says "Avast there ye land-lubbers!" a lot, you kinda get the idea that you have someone who is badly impersonating a pirate and if they say "Howdy Y'all, that's a whole nother thing" then you've probably got a Texan on your hands. You aren't spelling words for the sake of pronunciation - but simply writing what people actually say. Texans pronounce "thing" more like "thang" - but you don't need to misspell it if you caught hold of the idea that they do (annoyingly) confuse 'an-other' with 'a-nother'.

But there is a deeper problem with writing this way, which is that when someone who actually has that accent reads your work, she/he is going to be puzzled why one of your characters who plainly speaks with no accent at all is continually being mis-spelled! eg: It's easy to write misspellings to simulate a Texas drawl for your Texan character and to use standard spelling for the English guy...and it works just great if you are English - but if you are a Texan, you'll be utterly confused (and probably offended too)! So just don't do it...PLEASE!

SteveBaker 20:45, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

How about "noo-kyu-lar" which, I gather, is a fairly widespread (some would say mis-)pronunciation in Texas and other southern parts (not to mention the current White House)? Or, if the character's a southerner, should the reader just assume that any of their words would be pronounced the southerner way, without the pronunciation needing to be spelled out? -- JackofOz 23:07, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Eh, that pronunciation of nuclear is actually used just about everywhere among people who are either not terribly educated on the subject or want to sound like they are not terribly well educated on the subject. Jimmy Carter said it that way too, and he was a noo-kyu-lar engineer at one point. But I digress.--24.147.86.187 02:41, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

"Everywhere" is a big word! I've only every heard it from people who are in the southern US. You'd never hear someone from the UK say it like that. Why would you? The spelling makes it pretty clear how it's pronounced NUCLEAR. NU-CLEAR there is no vowel between the C and the L - so why do so many southern Americans put it there? Weird. SteveBaker 02:55, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

This was done in a highly imaginative manner in the Asterix series of books, by using a combination of idiosyncratic typefaces (eg Gothic for Germans), name suffixes (-us for Romans) and other cultural idioms, like swearing by Jove for Britons. Genius. --Dweller 16:34, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Analogously - but oppositely - the British TV series 'Allo Allo' used accent as a stand-in for language. So the French would speak in outrageous French accents and the Brits wouldn't understand them until they said the exact same words with a phoney British accent. It was extremely well done and a great running joke. SteveBaker 16:39, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

November 14

European Hares in Connecticut

Where are there lots of European Hares in Connecticut?--76.28.67.224 01:58, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

A quick Google search of "european hares Connecticut" reveals that this previously non-American animal was introduced into upstate New York, Connecticut, and Maryland starting in the late 1800s. The plain answer, then, is "people brought them here". At least one source claims that the purpose was to provide a game species, though it also notes that, in Ontario, less than a dozen "escaped" to provide a thin wild population there as well. That said, most references also suggest that the population is not characterized by "lots" but by being "rare or extirpated", so if you've seen "lots", you might want to contact someone about it. 71.123.80.6 04:20, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I have done some hiking in Connecticut and have never seen a European hare. I hike frequently in other New England states and have never seen one on any of these hikes either. If they were common anywhere in Connecticut, I would expect them to have spread to neighboring states, as the distances are not great. I agree with the previous post that, if they are present in Connecticut at all, they are rare. Marco polo 15:10, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

That said, according to this site, there are localized populations of European hare (locally also known as jackrabbit) in southwest Connecticut (i.e. Fairfield County). These hares prefer an environment of grassy fields interspersed with woods and are quite fond of orchards. You might look for that sort of environment in southwest Connecticut, though most of these hares are likely to be on private property. Marco polo 15:30, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Quote?

I seem to remember a quote/poem, something about whether hell is cold (icy?) or hot, and which one the writer would prefer (it definitely rhymed). For curiosity's sake, does anyone know the exact quote? -Wooty  

Robert Frost's Fire and Ice? About the end of the world though, not Hell. Rmhermen 05:10, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

That was it. Thanks. -Wooty   —Preceding comment was added at 05:30, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

For some reason the original question reminded me that hell is exothermic. :P Dureo 10:34, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Job Title position

What is The job title position that entails overseeing the design of branding and advertising for a client and ensuring that the new branding and advertising fits in with the clients requirements and the image they wish to promote for their company or product and is primarily responsible for managing the communications risks and opportunities of a business, both internally and externally —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lord Lutz (talk • contribs) 05:19, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

"Overseeing the design for their company or product" and "primarily responsible for both internally and externally" are copy and pasted from the articles Creative director and Chief communications officer respectively. FiggyBee 05:30, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Can I attend the Virginia Military Institute?

I have taken sat and act; I have some college credits. However I already sworn in to join the army in the summer, with four years of active duty and four years reserves. But the VMI says it does not accept someone over the age of 22 without a waiver. Seeing as how I'll turn 19 in January, and I'll be 23 when I'm out of active duty, what are my chances of being admitted? Can I attend while on the reserves? I don't understand how they admit people with a military background. Since when is someone who is finished with the military between the ages of 16 and 22?--Goon Noot 05:43, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I strongly suggest you talk to the admissions staff at VMI, the sooner the better. It may turn out that active military service is one of the things they will give you a waiver for. As for the reserves, I can't see how it would be possible for you to be in ROTC and the army reserves at the same time (since you'd have two different ranks). But again, you need to talk to the admissions staff. I can't imagine you're the first person who's ever been in this situation. FiggyBee 06:04, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Best Availiable Rate/Checkout

If i make a hotel reservation where i would have to pay upon checkout from the hotel and i wanted to pay instantly before i arrive, would calling the hotel and telling them to take out the cost right away help at all.--logger 06:32, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

One thing that hotels usually make very clear is how and where to pay. This is after all the most important components of their relationship with guests. As for paying in advance, contact the hotel and ask. Many have websites that explain this kind of thing. -- Hoary 08:38, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

For most major hotels, paying before arrival or at check-in is a bit unusual (though many places will take a credit card imprint or a cash deposit in case of damage to the room). As Hoary says, it never hurts to ask.

A related feature that many hotels offer is usually called something like 'express checkout'. You leave your credit card information with the front desk, and at the end of your stay one of two things happens. Either you receive an itemized bill delivered to your room first thing in the morning on the day that you're scheduled to depart, or you can check your bill through an online system that's built in your room's pay-per-view cable television box. If you're satisfied that the charges are correct, you can pick up and leave. There's usually a box in the lobby or at the front desk where you can drop off your room keys; you often don't need to see or speak to a human being when you leave. Again, call your hotel or check their website to see if this feature is available. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:47, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that the hotel doesn't know in advance how much your bill will be. In addition to the room charge, you might use room service or take something from the MiniBar, watch a Pay-per-view movie or use the phone. They don't know in advance how much that could add up to - so they can only take payment when you leave. However, if you leave them your credit card number when you check in, they can usually debit that when you leave without you having to literally hand over money at the end. SteveBaker 20:33, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Flowchart On Global Warming

Can anybody please find me a flowchart on how global warming changes the Earth's Climate??220.233.83.26 07:18, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Global warming changes the Earth's climate by making it hotter - that's what "global warming" means. If you want to know about a particular mechanism of global warming, perhaps read the article, particularly the "causes" section? FiggyBee 09:08, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

A flow chart is a diagramming technique that's best suited to a single-threaded process. (eg: To drive to work: First find car keys, then go to car, if door is locked unlock it, get into car...etc). Global warming is a lot of trends all working at the same time - so that as CO₂, methane and water vapor (and other greenhouse gasses) are added into the atmosphere by half a dozen major sources, there are simultaneously feedback processes such as glacial and oceanic ice melting that causes a drop in albedo that causes more heat input. These things are all going on at once - and a flow chart really doesn't cover that. What I think you need is something more like the diagram on the right here (which is NOT about global warming) - I have no idea what these are called - but they aren't flowcharts. SteveBaker 20:29, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

trivia

i recently heard a trivia question that i knew way back but cant recollect the answer...it suck and it soars what is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.49.74.131 (talk) 11:29, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

A jet engine? A blowfly? A baby bat? China Airlines? This is more like a riddle, isn't it? --Milkbreath 11:44, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

MegaMaid — Lomn 14:07, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

lol ur mom on a airplane. Esskater11 23:36, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

highest lake in each continent

Dear Reference Desk

I have begun to research the highest lake in each continent and thought Misplaced Pages might be a help, plus what I find could be of help to others.

Definion of a lake is the first start - I think it has to be over 3 feet deep.

Can you help and I woudl also like to set up the bit I have found. Not sure about any of it though - only from looking at maps. Maybe Google earth might help.

Thank you Nonie —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nonie Hodgson (talk • contribs) 13:27, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Have you seen highestlake.com? I have no idea why somebody picked up a domain name just for this, but it looks to be quite relevant. — Lomn 14:06, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Extreme points of the World and its child articles may have coverage in this area. --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:36, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm - I bet the highest lake in Antarctica is below sea level - and underground! You'll have fun figuring that one out! SteveBaker 20:21, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Not exactly underground, more like under-ice... See Lake Vostok and the whole category Lakes of Antarctica.--mglg_(talk) 22:21, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Subheadline in online news articles

What's it called when an online news article has a headline, in bold, in the middle of an article. It often is a key phrase or a heading for a new section of the article. BBC News often does this at least once per article (sometimes even more). For example, in this ABC article, the "subheadline" would be "Computers 'terrific'", and in this BBC article, the "subheadline" is "Wide variations". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.208.110.207 (talk) 14:12, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

One of the terms used for it is actually a 'subhead', which is just a shortening of subheading. Dictionary.com defines this as "a title or heading of a subdivision, as in a chapter, essay, or newspaper article" and "smaller heading or title in a book, chapter, newspaper, etc". I seem to recall there being some fancy/punchy neologism for this as well such as a 'bite-tag' or something, it's only purposes are to break up the text and keep you interested in the article.

Another term used is 'crosshead'/'cross-heading' - defined on journalism.co.uk as "A few words used to break up large amounts of text, normally taken from the main text." 86.21.74.40 14:45, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

"pull quote" is the term I have most often come across. i.e. pulling a quote from the piece.86.219.163.217 14:57, 14 November 2007 (UTC)DT

A pull quote is something different from a subheading or subhead. A subhead is an internal subtitle written by the author or editor. A pull quote is a quote from an external source cited by the author and somehow set off (for example, with indentation or larger type). Marco polo 15:06, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually, a pull quote is typically a brief quote from the article itself, sometimes edited for succinctness, set off in a box or in larger type to attract interest. It is not (necessarily) from an external source. And it is not what the OP asks about. --mglg_(talk) 17:33, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

But I'm glad I found out what to call pull quotes. I've recently been wanting to refer to one, but didn't know what the term was. -- JackofOz 23:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

We don't disagree, mglg, I just didn't express myself clearly, I guess. When I said "external source", I meant "a source other than the author of the article or the editor". And you are right that it is a quote pulled from the article (or book) and set off somehow for emphasis. Marco polo 02:11, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

what you're looking for is 'crosshead'. (see http://www.thefreedictionary.com/crosshead) 83.104.131.135 10:30, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

What is Glucose BE45 confectionery grade?

I would like to know what Glucose BE45 confectionery grade is, what it is used in making, how and where it's made, and why it's use would be preferred over another type of sweetener? OKODUGHA 17:47, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

It would probably be best to start with our article on Glucose. I seem to remember a bottle of it in my mom's cupboard that she used to make Sugar paste when decorating cakes, so I looked up a cake decorating supplier. Here's what I've found at Maid of Scandinavia:

   Glucose is a special type of corn syrup made for the confectionery trade. 
   Use it in hard candies to prevent candies from getting sticky so quickly 
   and in caramels to help them hold their shape better without over-cooking.

--Mdwyer 01:54, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Women

I need help. Almost all of my friends are men. Could someone advise me on how to make friends with women? Whenever I see one, I look away, and I'm too scared to approach one. I'm 18(sadly)and heterosexual. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.175.116.95 (talk) 22:48, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

People at Yahoo! Answers can give you some good advices. Have a look at this google search. 132.206.22.25 23:46, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

That's not what I mean. I mean just for a friendship. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.175.116.95 (talk) 23:57, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I would just talk to them like normal friends. Cheers,JetLover (Report a mistake) 00:00, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. Listen, ask questions, have a genuine interest in the responses. It's easy to make friends... don't be offensive, don't be staunchly political, don't make statements that are radical (at least until you are in a position that the friendship can survive arguments), be light-hearted, laugh, smile, ask questions - but don't make it feel like an interrogation, be agreeable - but don't be a push-over. For me the most important I consider to find people friendly is that they are relaxed, fun and non judgmental. Were I to become friends then I love to argue till the cows come home, gotta love the debate, but certainly it is rarely a successful policy in the early days of a friendship. ny156uk 00:31, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah - you could also try joining any local clubs or societies relating to things that girls also enjoy doing...this gives you a great reason to get in there and chat - and also a ready topic for first conversations. Debate clubs are great for this. SteveBaker 01:19, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Practice talking to women you aren't sexually interested in (so women where there's no pressure). In fact, practice talking to everyone everywhere, perhaps just by making casual small talk. The same skills you learn in those contexts will eventually be honed well enough to work in the context of women you are attracted to. And who knows -- along the way, one of the "practice" women may turn out to be far more interesting to you than you first assumed! And remember: One of the skills that will get you highest-rated as a brilliant conversationilst is the ability to shut up and listen to what the other person is saying. ;-)

Atlant 13:51, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

A very good friend of mine (who has the enviable knack of being able to talk to absolutely anyone on absolutely any topic and being interesting) once told me that if a guy is lost for a reply to anything a woman says, the line: "So how does that make you feel?" (emphasis is important) is like magic. My experience is that it works totally - although you need to figure out a few variations on the wording if you plan on using it more than once in any consecutive 3 minute period! We guys (especially the geekier amongst us) find that a 100% abhorrent idea - and something we'd probably never consider saying...which is perhaps why it is so sucessful. SteveBaker 16:34, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

To 71.175: you are 18 and SAD about it?! Oh, my! You do not know how lucky you are. I agree with Atlant--talk to everyone, ask people about themselves, and practice the art of listening. Doing this will benefit you in all aspects of your life, not just getting a date.--Eriastrum 18:01, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Volunteer occasionally in an aged nursing home. The women there are easy to talk to, often flirtatious, and if you become friends you can ask about these matters. Remember, they are only old on the outside.

Otherwise, try to be in a situation where you are working together. E.g if you volunteer to help with revegetation or animal shelter you wont have to think of things to say, you will have normal conversation in the process of getting the work done.

Someone please back me up with this.-- Polypipe Wrangler (talk) 21:21, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good to me! The key to learning to talk to people is talking to people!

Atlant (talk) 23:35, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

List of articles in the english wikipedia with audio version

Are there a list of articles in the english wikipedia where the entire article are recorded in audio format. Also, is there any free program (without needing installation since I don't have administrative rights on those computers) to play .ogg audio files? Thanks 132.206.22.25 23:29, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Spoken articles. All the programmes listed at Misplaced Pages:Media help (Ogg) appear to require downloads. Rockpocket 00:19, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks anyway. 132.206.22.25 00:29, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Nevermind, I've found it. It's here for those who did not know. Misplaced Pages:Media help (Ogg) gave me the instructions on how to play .ogg files. Don't mind to respond to this thread. 132.206.22.25 00:27, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Use of Acrobat Reader's 'Read Out Loud' feature to create more spoken articles

Is it illegal for wikipedia to make use of the 'Read Out Loud' feature of Acrobat Reader to convert all wikipedia articles into spoken articles? It is easy. We just print the articles into .pdf using PDFCreator and have it read loud by Acrobat Reader. We then just record it while it is being read. Is it because Adobe Systems does not allow this that wikipedia does not do it? 132.206.22.25 01:02, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't know about Acrobat Reader - but there are several OpenSourced/Free text-to-speech programs out there that definitely could be used for this. However, people who want the article read to them (predominantly blind or poorly sighted people) already have perfectly good text-to-speech software and there would be no point whatever in filling up Misplaced Pages's hard drives and network bandwidth with two million robotically read sound files that the end user can produce for themselves any time. The only things worth having voice recordings for are when someone with a nice voice reads the article. SteveBaker 01:13, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your response. I think if I have more questions on this issue, it's better that I ask them at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Spoken Misplaced Pages. Adiós everyone. 132.206.22.25 01:26, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm convinced the spoken article people (who all have very nice voices and do a good job, by the way) choose bizarre, controversial and unusual articles because they get a kick out of counterpointing their spoken academic tone with the unusual or taboo subject matter. Listen to the .ogg at nigga for example. Rockpocket 02:54, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

As a regular contributor of spoken articles, I can say that it can be tempting to pick an esoteric or "interesting" article when deciding my next contribution, but I try to go for topics which will benefit/be of interest to more people and which have been written well (ideally, Featured Article status). From my list of recordings, only one is "unusual", and I was asked by the article's author to provide a spoken version (I had to use my best imitated Scottish accent...). Having said that, I would have narrated this legendary article had it not already been done! Hassocks5489 12:45, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

• I think Adobe would have a problem with us using the software like that. You'd have to read the TOS very carefully. In general it's better to use a free alternative. Anyway, the aim of that particular wikiproject is to have articles that are not spoken by a robot but a real human. Visually impaired people are likely to have a robot-reading program already, so it wouldn't add any value for them if we did what you suggest. - 131.211.175.189 12:13, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

November 15

noogies

How can you escape from a noogie? --HJ980 00:34, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

With a monkey bite. --Milkbreath 00:52, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Usual self defense techniques apply here. What is required is to break the headlock that holds you there. To do so requires that you convince whoever's holding you that it takes more effort to hold you that giving you the noogie is worth. Doing that might require hurting them. The simplest technique in this situation is to avoid getting into the headlock by having other people around for support. If there are five people and one noogie-distributor, they may be less likely to start anything due to the presence of witnesses and/or possible assailants. Steewi 01:02, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Additional: Self defence classes can assist you in defending yourself, often while not hurting whoever is attacking you (it may not seem so, but this can be a good thing). Investigate nearby classes for Aikido, Judo or even Bagua for softer alternatives to karate and taekwondo. Steewi 01:07, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

There is no escape - but if you live in the USA, you can find methods of revenge by calling 1-888-DO-NOT-CLOSE - (which is a free punishment service for MINI Cooper Convertible owners who drive around with the convertible roof up on perfectly nice days!) Listen to the message then hit 1 and listen to the rest of the options. Enjoy! SteveBaker 01:09, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Im not sure you understand, its just a funny thing we do not hurt HJ980 01:10, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

It can sure hurt being on the receiving end... Steewi 01:13, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

If one develops a habit of passing gas while getting a noogie, one will probably get less noogies. Biological warfare, natural style. --24.147.86.187 02:44, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

The above....Best comment ever. Esskater11 02:48, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

If you can maintain your cool and a sense of where your body is at all times during the noogie (two important self-defense skills in any event), you will often find that at least one shoulder is in or near the middle of your antagonist's lower back. With some wrangling, you should be able to reach the back hem of his pants, resulting in a devestating counter-maneuver. I believe Chuck Norris used this very technique to defeat Bruce Lee at Wrestlemania. Faithfully, Deltopia 10:30, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Unexpectantly grab his crotch, keep hold, even after he has let go of you, then look him in the eye, and tell him that he will never ever o it again, to you or any of your friends, Confronting a bully is the best way out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.191.136.3 (talk) 13:23, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

You guys don't know what a monkey bite is, do you? --Milkbreath 13:42, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I'll bite - No, Milkbreath, what's a monkey bite? Deltopia 14:44, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

It's like a giant pinch. You grab a handful of flesh and grip hard. If there is particularly sensitive, ahem, flesh in the bite, so much the worse for the recipient. The belly is a good, non-lethal target. --Milkbreath 15:17, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Guys - in all seriousness - this talk of attacking the crotch is really dumb advice. Firstly, you can do some serious and permenant damage doing that kind of thing - which is more likely to get the former victim into serious trouble than his attacker. Secondly, the bully will retaliate with his gang of half a dozen supporters - so you won't indimidate him into giving up. This tactic is truly a measure of last resort and should only be taught as such. It is TOTALLY inappropriate for responding to mere schoolyard bullying - bad though that can be. SteveBaker 16:26, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Never mind monkey bites, I'm still wondering what the heck a noogie is. --Dweller 16:28, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

The noogie is part of a range of minor physical attacks, most typically perpetrated amongst pre-adolescent and adolescent boys. Other similar attacks include the wet willy, the wedgie, and the dreaded Rear Admiral. - Eron 16:31, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Ah. Thanks. Don't get the Simpsons reference, but ho hum. Best advice is to avoid the problem in the first place. Try not washing ever again... no-one will come near you. (That's quite popular among students) Alternatively, you can get someone to spread a rumour about your advanced martial arts skills. Or become unfeasibly popular. Or muscly. Or feign insanity/heart attack. I'd guess that better than most of these options is just to take the noogie. An anonymous tip-off of the staff might wipe out the problem without damaging your social life. We had a problem at my school of "cripple nipple". When the deputy head spoke out against it in Assembly, the place practically fell down from the impact of stifled laughter. But it turned from being a cool thing to do to very uncool, because this stiff teacher had talked about it. --Dweller 17:08, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

The good old tittie twister. Boy, that takes me back. I remember the first time somebody asked me what the capital of Thailand was in the schoolyard. Those were the days. --Milkbreath 17:45, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I like the "feign heart attack" option. How great would that be? Someone grabs you to give a noogie, and suddenly you convulse a few times and go limp, drooling slightly. If you could get a nearby sorprano to shriek, "AHHH, you killed him!!!" I think it would really add to the effect. Deltopia 18:29, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Dangit, I had to look all over the interweb to figure out what the DRA was. Very nice. Deltopia 17:12, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Im not exactly sure everyone understands, we're just friends and we do that to each other 4 fun, weer not trying to punch each other! HJ980 22:55, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Make a tight almost-fist, with the middle knuckle of the middle finger protruding. Rub hard across the bones on the back of his hand. Non-fatal and non-permanent, but still effective. Also great for bear-hugs, ladies. --CliffC 00:15, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Grab the noogie-er's offending forearm with both hands and, with a devastating counter-twisting motion, launch the mother of all chinese burns. That'll do it. Rockpocket 07:40, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Dictionaries between languages

Is there any company known for great inter-language dictionaries, for any common language and english? Also, is there any company known for similarly good foreign language grammar books? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.175.116.95 (talk) 01:05, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

There are many companies that do this. Try Collins (and Collins Gem), Oxford University Press, Cambridge University Press, Hippocrene, Teach Yourself, the Colloquial language series, Routledge, Pimsleur, and others. Oxford and Cambridge University Press print more academic books, although many are accessible to beginners, while Teach Yourself, Colloquial, Routledge and Pimsleur are aimed at beginners with little language experience. Most of these companies produce both dictionaries and grammars, and can be found on most large online bookstores. Steewi 01:12, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Langenscheidt is a big name in bilingual dictionaries. MrRedact 01:14, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

True - I'd left that one out. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steewi (talk • contribs) 01:24, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I must say that I've been disappointed with Hippocrene. They tend to offer only a single translation for words that have multiple meanings. Marco polo 02:07, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

That's true, but they have some dictionaries for lesser-known languages that other companies don't produce dictionaries for. Steewi 05:15, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Often you can just go to your local mega book store and they'll have a huge selection of foreign language dictionaries and grammar books for the most popular languages. If you have specific languages in mind, there are often specific companies known for being "the best" (e.g. Duden is generally regarded as one of the best German publishers, and when I was taking Germany the Oxford-Duden dictionary was recommended above all else). Similarly for some languages specific aspects of the dictionary can make it easier or harder to use; the best Russian-English dictionary I own is actually one produced in the former USSR, but it just happens to be extremely easy to navigate, which for a non-Roman character set can count for a lot if you are not terribly fluent. --24.147.86.187 02:35, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

There is a certain amount of badge engineering in the dictionary field. I currently use a Langenscheidt Croatian-English pocket dictionary, which was an exact replacement for its Berlitz equivalent (I exchanged because the Berlitz had faulty printing). Firms like Collins cooperate to produce, for example, the Collins-Robert English-French dictionary and the Collins-Pons English-German dictionary. Oh, and one more name for your list : Hugo (if they are still in existence!) SaundersW 11:17, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

unclear insurance co. liability

say, A hires B to do something and B subcontracts C. C messes up, and A requires B to pay consequential damages. B has insurance and the insurance company is required to pay 90% of the consequential damages. who holds C liable for its mess up? B or insurance company? Does the insurance company have the right to get money from C? --Iownatv 02:57, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

While wikipedia is not a lawyer, that is generally how insurance is supposed to work. B claims damages from Geico (for instance); Geico investigates and adjusts the claim before paying out; Geico goes after C to get back the money that Geico just paid to B. I think, but am not sure, that Geico will actually go after 100% of C's liability, not just the 90% that they will owe B, and if they get that, B will get all of its money back (rather than having to pursue a separate action against C for the last 10%, or having to decide if that's even worth it). Again, though, wikipedia is not allowed to present regulated professional advice, and your application of this knowledge is at your own risk. (My background is US common civil law, too, so if you're living somewhere else, I would ignore this completely.) Faithfully, Deltopia 10:23, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Codd bottle (marble bottles)

Hi,

I've got an old beer bottle of the kind which is stoppered by a marble - a Codd-necked bottle. I'm also a home-brewer and I reckon it'd be cool to use bottles like that for a special beer (a solstice or equinox beer, for example). Of course I don't want to spend tens of dollars per bottle on century-old bottles that have an unknown life and may not be up to the job, I want to track down newly manufactured codd bottles. Do any present wikipedians of this reference desk know (a) whether there's any company manufacturing them in large numbers and selling the bottles to the public or (b) whether this sort of bottle can be made by a glass blower?

--Psud 08:44, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, here's a start http://sigmafragrances.tradeindia.com/Exporters_Suppliers/Exporters/hp/13076/company_profile.html

Richard Avery 10:15, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Darn! That's such a neat idea! No bottle caps...a 100% recyclable/reusable bottle! We should be using these for everything.

As the article says, these bottles are still in use in Japan and India. I would imagine that it would be useful to try to purchase a few cases of those products and 'repurpose' the bottles afterwards. I bet you could find a way to buy some online. The problems (I guess) would be:

1. They are clear glass (most beer is packaged in coloured glass to keep sunlight out of the beer and altering it's flavor)
2. You have to have enough carbonation in your beer to keep the upward pressure on the marble.
3. They have to be filled upside-down - which is going to be an interesting trick for you to pull off!
4. You'll have to call your beer Codswallop...that's a great name for a homemade beer! I do hope that's a true story.

If you had them custom made, I think it might take a lot of trial-and-error to get the bottle shape just right to allow the marble to make a good seal and yet also to ensure that it doesn't block the neck when you are drinking the stuff. But if you could get a few bottles of the Japanese or Indian product then I'd expect a competent glass blower to be able to copy them. The trick would be to form the shape of the entire bottle - but with a wide-enough neck to get the marble inside - then, after everything has cooled off, to add another ring of glass to the neck to give the marble a surface to seal against and to trap it inside. So, yeah - I bet a skilled glass blower could do it - and then at least you'd be able to have nice brown or green bottles made.

In truth, the hardest part is going to be filling them and maintaining enough internal pressure to keep them sealed. If you had a high pressure air line, you could pour the beer in with them the right way up, hook up the high pressure air hose to the top of the bottle to get enough pressure inside - then rapidly invert the bottle so the marble rolls down into the neck without too much beer pouring out - then, finally, remove the air hose to allow the internal pressure to clamp it firmly in place...squirting any beer that ran into the air hose or was in the neck of the bottle all over the place!

Hmmm - we need some lateral thinking here! Just the thing that RefDesk denizens are good at!

SteveBaker 14:17, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, all. Steve: From playing with my old codd bottle (filled with water), you can fill them upright, place a hand over the mouth of the bottle and invert it. You loose a little of the contents but it works. With the exception of the English ales and stouts I make, there's certain to be enough pressure to hold a marble in place. --Psud 21:09, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Aaahhh! Sorry - I didn't notice that you'd told us you had one! I don't quite understand how this is going to work though. If you pour the beer in with a funnel or something - the contents of the bottle are going to be at the same pressure as the air. When you turn it upside-down, the marble will settle in place - but there is no additional pressure inside to keep it there so when you put the bottle back up the right way, won't the marble just fall back down again? Maybe if you shake the CO₂-laden liquid up while it's upside-down, perhaps it would release enough gas to stay sealed. But our article on these bottles specifically states: "The bottles were filled upside down"...presumably under pressure. Why would they do that if it was as easy as you say to do it the right way up? It seems to me that you need to convince yourself that you can actually seal the bottle you have with soda or beer using using your technique before you go out and spend a fortune on getting some custom-made and finding that you can't make it work. But buying a crate of soda and paying shipping from India or Japan ought to be a LOT cheaper and more reliable means for getting "known to work" bottles. SteveBaker 00:46, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it's pretty hard to see how it'll work unless you know the way I brew! I usually keg my beer and carbonate with pressurised CO₂, and for "quick and nasty" bottles - say for short term storage or a party - I'd fill the bottles from the tap with beer at 2°C well loaded with CO₂. I'd fill the bottle right way up, place my hand over the mouth of it, invert it (over a glass) and give it a small shake. At any temperature above 2° there'd be positive pressure in the bottle (because more gas dissolves in cooler water/beer, so at higher temperatures more comes out of solution). For a more "special" beer, I'd bottle it straight from the fermenter, secondary fermentation would then happen in the bottle fueled either by the remaining sugars in the beer or by added sugar or unfermented wort - the bottles would be stored upside down while the secondary fermentation happened. The bottle I have (which is missing it's rubber washer) drips very little when inverted full of water. --Psud 05:03, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Sex in space

Are there any incidents of astranoughts having sex in zero-g? I mean, you've got several guys and girls up there for months at a time - they must get pretty horney; and what could be more romantic than doing it in a space station (if your a nerd, that is - and lets face it, astranoughts arn't exactly college jocks) Hyper Girl 13:18, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

There is an article on the topic. Sex in space. Jon513 13:48, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

For the record, those people in the spaceships are astronauts. "Astranought" seems like it out to mean something about zero stars. :-) --LarryMac | Talk 20:47, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

At least one married couple have been into space together; Mark C. Lee and Jan Davis, and there are a few who claim that they had sex while up there. NASA would seriously discourage it though; apart from the severe lack of privacy on the shuttle, the various fluids (especially sweat) can damage equipment and, as any shuttle pilot can tell you, it's very difficult to dock when there's no gravity... Laïka 23:26, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

• In space,no-one can hear you scream with pleasure..86.53.57.148 15:56, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

British Immigration

I hate it when people ask horribly general questions, so I will understand if you do not indulge me. I am wondering how difficult it is for a US citizen (BA, 3.8 GPA at a good school, no work experience) to emigrate to England. I don't know all the ins and outs of the immigration laws, but even if I did factors like employer sponsorship and the business cycle are equally influential. Plasticup /C 15:00, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Clarify please. Do you mean emigrate, i.e. move permanently ? Or do you mean simply work for a time in the UK whilst retaining US citizenship ? (To be pedantic, you cannot emigrate to England, only to the UK, of which England is part.)86.202.159.13 15:09, 15 November 2007 (UTC)DT

As a general answer - The British Consulate in America's website britainusa.com gives general advice including linking to FCO documents such as their guidance on Residence in the UK.

Immigration is handled by the Home Office's Border & Immigration Agency, whose website contains all the rules and regulations relating to emigrating. Foxhill 15:23, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

From memory only; not easy. You need several years of residence to apply for a permanent residence. You only get several years of residence if you're able to get a work permit. You only get that (in most circumstances) if an employer applies for such a thing for you, and they only get it if they make a good enough case. You should take this answer with some salt, and follow the links above. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:06, 15 November 2007 (UTCTrue)

True, and a work permit will usually only be issued if no UK or other EU citizens can be found to do the job, unless you are exceptionally talented in your work - e.g. footballers from outside the UK have to have played in 75% (I think, it's a high figure, anyway) of their national teams' recent games. Of course if you can acquire an EU passport, through having an Irish-born grandparent for example, then it gets much easier. It may be easier to move to another EU country, like Belgium, get citizenship there, then move to the UK: this is sometimes done when football clubs want to import a player who doesn't meet the UK work permit criteria - they park him with an associated team in Belgium for a few years and move him to the UK later.

Plasticup's lack of work experience is likely to be the critical obstacle. One possible way round this might be to get a job with a US company which has an office in the UK and arrange a transfer to the UK, which would let you build up residence time towards getting permanent residence and/or citizenship. Probably the easiest way to get in is to marry a UK citizen! Lest Plasticup be too discouraged, while it's difficult for US citizens to immigrate to the UK it's not impossible - as of the 2001 census, 150,000 people had done it. -- Arwel (talk) 20:12, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

As the others say, it all depends on what you plan to do for a job, really. Without work experience or a higher degree, you would probably have to have some specialist skills to get a decent job in the UK directly. Once you have the job, it would be pretty easy. Rockpocket 01:23, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

From experience, it is easier to emigrate than it looks once you have a job. If you are suitably impressive (although in reality being merely average with a good work ethic will suffice), many companies would rather retain you than go through the hassle of replacing you and will apply for a long term work visa, tweaking the job description to fit you so no other EU citizens are suitable. The hard part is getting a work visa to find your first job. Tried and true methods are getting an ancestry visa through British parents/grandparents or an EU passport from Irish/Spanish/Italian/etc ancestors. Unfortunately, being fom Bermuda doesn't allow you a working holiday visa which would give you two years of work visa to find somewhere permanent. However, maybe you already have UK citizenship from being a British colony (my friend had a UK passport from her parents being born in Hong Kong depsite never setting foot in the UK). Maybe applying for a student internship with a UK company is possible? A normal student visa will allow you to find part time work which might be enough to get the foot in the door. Then there is always hooking up with a EU citizen. If all else fails it may be easier to just get work experience in the US to get enough points for a highly skilled migrant visa. BeamerNZ (talk) 02:22, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Warriors Tea-Party Pals

I live in Roseville, California and enjoy woodland stroll, this morning I took a small path about 100 yards away from the asphalt path, near a creek. Upon leaving the tree I was leaning on had a note tape to it. Appearing to be placed the night before; the dew did not destroy the blue permanent marker. The note stated as such: Warrior Tea-Party Pals and an arrow drawn at the base of the tree. The reverse side was an "Admit one" for the BloodSource(TM) "The Blood Drive fea...unlegiable. It stated you need to "Bring I.D." and to "EAT & Drink Before Donating” Then finally by the I.D. reminder, in blue ball-point pen, was the time 8:30 no AM or PM. I found this Admission ticket at 7:30ish in the morning. What do these Warrior Tea-Party Pals do during their event? And is it an actual invitation to the lucky hiker- me- who finds it? Hopefully you respond quickly because I plan on going. Thank You. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.172.117.226 (talk) 16:14, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I found this link http://bbs.clubplanet.com/new-jersey/105426-hey-neena-3.html but I have no idea what they're talking about (kids these days! no respect for the English Language). 83.104.131.135 16:53, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

My advice would be disallowed as legal and medical. But....is your will up to date? -SandyJax 20:22, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like a blood donor group.-- Polypipe Wrangler (talk) 21:27, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Sign In Problems

I tried to sign in, and had forgotten my password.

I entered my User Name, and selected "E-mail New Password."

I am encountering "Internal Server Error" persistently. No new password is being sent.

What do I do now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.182.205.177 (talk) 21:55, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, I just tried that exact thing and it worked OK. Aside from "Try again later", the only thing I can suggest is to take this over to the Misplaced Pages:Help desk - they are there for answering questions about Misplaced Pages itself, the Reference desk is really intended for questions of a more general nature. Good luck! SteveBaker 00:12, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Dog eats his own shit

My dog is 8 years old and sometimes after he takes a shit he eats it and then his breath smells like shit and it's really nasty. How can I stop him? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.227.100.48 (talk) 22:13, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Our article on dog training may be of use. — Lomn 22:44, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I might as well be the one to also mention there's a section on it, in the article on Coprophagia. -- DatRoot 22:55, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm beginning to wonder if we need a separate ref desk for Coprophagia-related question...it comes up in a statistically unreasonable number of answers! (Also this question is a duplicate of the first ever question asked on the Ref Desk!) SteveBaker 00:07, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Certain muzzles will make your dog unable to eat anything with it on. Just put the muzzle on him before letting him out to poop. MrRedact 00:40, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Make sure he's getting decent quality food. Sometimes dogs eat their own faeces either because they aren't getting enough nutrition from what they are eating or there's a digestive imbalance whereby their digestive system isn't absorbing nutrients properly. Then again there's always the possibility that he just likes the taste! ---- WebHamster 00:45, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Yep dogs will eat poop if they feel it is not fully digested or if they think it is a game - you try and lift it they will eat it to stop you getting getting your hands on it first. Lanfear's Bane | t 10:48, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Six degrees of separation MJ to Elaine Page

Using the principles of Six degrees of separation, how could one link former US sprinter Michael Johnson (athlete) with singer Elaine Page? Thanks. Acceptable 22:45, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

The Six degrees of Misplaced Pages is broken for quite a while now, maybe someone else has a similar tool? --antilived 22:55, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Elaine page hosted a series on BBC that had guest star Elton John, Elton john appeared in the tv series The Simpsons which also had Hank Azaria. Hank Azaria worked with Matthew Perry in Friends, Matthew Perry worked with Jason Alexander on Friends, Jason Alexander worked with Wayne Knight on Seinfeld and Wayne Knight worked with Michael Jordan in Space Jam. I think that's 7 though (Page-John-Azara-Perry-Alexander-Knight-Jordan) - Or if you switch it to this...Page-John-Azaria-Perry-Devito-Jordan. Danny Devito starred in Space Jam and worked with Matthew Perry in a Friends episode (he was a stripper for Phoebe) ny156uk 23:01, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

This (http://www.thekevinbacongame.com/) will do a job. I've not tried it as I was too happy with my own work above, but presumably it works. ny156uk 23:04, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

That's impressive, but he asked about Michael Johnson, not Michael Jordan :) It shouldn't be too hard to fix, he was in Master of Disguise with Dana Carvey... Adam Bishop 23:27, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Ahhhh I hadn't noticed that. And there I was thinking I was some kind of hero. Well either way it tends to be that the key is...use The Simpsons, Friends or one of the other shows that has a huge number of guest-stars. Hank-Azaria is the easy link from Simpsons to Friends, but i'm sure there are many more. Michael johnson competed at the 1992 Olympics where MIchael Jordan played basketball for the Usa...though you'd need to lose a jump in the link. Basically Danny Devito was Uncle Herb in the Simpsons...So you get Page-John-Azaria-devito-Jordan-Johnson...Ahhh i'm a hero again. ny156uk 23:36, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Too easy! Elaine-Page via the TV series to Elton John via the Simpsons to Homer Simpson (or his voice actor if you are being picky about only real people) via the Simpsons again to Andre Agassi via 1996 Olympics (they were both Gold Medal winners) to Michael Johnson. 4 steps. SteveBaker 00:04, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Do the Olympics really count? Because you can go Page-John-Castellaneta-DeVito-Carvey (through any SNL episode DeVito hosted when Carvey was on it) -Johnson. Adam Bishop 00:08, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Here's one with just media appearances. Michael Johnson was a guest captain on They think it's all over, hosted by Nick Hancock, who also hosted Room 101, where Peter Cook appeared, who was in this with Diane Keaton, who was in the original performance for Hair with Elaine Page. That night of 100 stars is a bit of a weak link (found through a feature on imdb). A more natural connection is from Nick Hancock to Richard E. Grant on room 101, who was a guest star on Frasier (as Daphne's brother) with Kelsey Grammer who was in the Simpsons (sideshow Bob) and so on, but that's rather long. Nick Hancock hosted the first three seasons of Room 101 (guests here). He was a the first guest when Paul Merton took over, who was on Have I got News for you which had a lot of famous guests. Difficult to keep it under 5 with really good links, though. risk 01:01, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Silly me. Jonathan Ross was on They think it's all over as well, and he's interviewed pretty much anyone. You can go Michael Johnson->Jonathan Ross->Al Pacino->Diane Keaton (Godfather)->Elaine Page(Hair). You can cut it down one if Ross has interviewed one of Elaine Page's co-stars. risk 01:13, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Here we go, he interviewed Elton John in the second episode of Friday night with Jonathan Ross: Michael Johnson->Jonathan Ross->Elton John->Elaine Page. 3 steps. risk

Wow thanks, this is amazing. Acceptable 02:12, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Bah! No fair! What's wrong with my Olympic games link?! All of the athletes parade together during the opening and closing ceremonies - so Agassi and Johnson were right there - on the same TV show - both in shot at the same time - at least twice. That's at least as valid as any other "being on the same TV show" link. SteveBaker 05:19, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

What is "Mongolian fur"?

I'm seeing women's coats advertised made of "Mongolian fur". As I recall, there was a big flap eight or ten years ago, with claims that Mongolian fur was actually dog fur. AFAIK, this was/is not an urban legend. Thanks for helping, I did try Google. --CliffC 23:39, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I can't produce a very reliable site, but several of the sales sites that came up in my google search indicated that it was lamb. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 23:50, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I took a second look at the picture in the catalog, and it's long and kinda wavy like an overgrown sheep, so lamb is probably the right answer. Thank you. --CliffC 00:48, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Incidently, perhaps you are thinking of this story? ---- Mdwyer (talk) 18:39, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

No, I hadn't seen that. Interestingly, your 2007 article says "Penney is charting a different course than rival Macy’s, which last month pulled Sean John jackets after they turned out to contain the same fur." Sean John is Sean John Combs is Puff Daddy is P. Diddy was Puffy Combs. The sole NY Times hit I got for "Mongolian fur" was this 1998 Style story including the society tidbit "In an unlikely pairing, Martha Stewart, in a tan suit, mingled with Puffy Combs, in a white dinner jacket and Mongolian fur overcoat, at Clive Davis's Plaza party." I guess the fur business has turned into a nice sideline for Puffy. --CliffC (talk) 05:57, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Train / Caboose

Is there a name for the little fenced-in platform at the back of a caboose? Actually the very last part of a train going down the track.

What is it????

Long ago, politicians used to stand there and wave to a crowd.

Thanks,

67.142.130.34 23:41, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

When a candidate stumps from a train city to city, it's called a whistle-stop tour. They'd normally rent a business car with a rear platform, rather than a caboose. Sorry to disappoint, but the rear platform was just called the rear platform. Many business cars survive in museums or private ownership. Business cars in private hands are often called 'private varnish.' If you google around, you'll find many references, here's one: . n2xjk 04:58, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

The technical name for the little platform on a passenger car is an open vestibule. The larger platforms on cabooses were (non-technically) called verandahs or porches. The walkways around the front and back of diesel hood units are also called porches. FiggyBee 11:33, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

There are a couple photos of this on the observation car article. Like n2xjk said, politicians used passenger cars and not cabooses. Slambo (Speak) 11:59, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I know it's not strictly relevant now, but in the UK, the covered platform on a brake van (equivalent to a caboose) is known as a verandah. A prominent example was the Great Western Railway 'Toad' brake van, which was distinctive in having a longer-than-average verandah at just one end. EdJogg (talk) 01:49, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

November 16

Electronic Medical Records (EMR)

Is there any governing agency that is mandating that hospitals convert to EMR? If so, what is the date in which this is to happen? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stvzgrl (talk • contribs) 02:25, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

You didn't say which country... so here's the UK situation. The UK's National Health Service has the National Programme for IT which includes an "electronic care record for patients" and should link General practitioners and hospitals. After at least 5 years and the departure of several IT partners, the project is still unfinished and the estimated costs have risen 5-fold. The article however does not state the estimated completion date. Astronaut 05:46, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

You may be interested in reading Electronic medical record and Electronic health record. From the list of problems and the slow rate at which hospitals are moving toward EMR, it seems unlikely that there is any agency that would mandate a change in the near future, regardless of country. 152.16.59.190 (talk) 01:17, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Largest unsupported marble dome

What is the the largest unsupported/self supported marble dome in the world? Emporis says the Minnesota State Capitol but also says that the Rhode Island State House is 2nd behind St. Peter's Basilica. For some more contradiction, most Rhode Island sources give a list as St. Peters Basilica, Minnesota State Capitol, Taj Mahal and then the Rhode Island State House, while most Minnesota sources list their State Capitol as the largest. Lets add this source to the mix. Any ideas? Eóin 03:45, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Let's talk diameters;

• St Peters - 42m (138.8ft) interior
• Minnesota - 18.38m (60ft) interior (27.12m (89ft) exterior)
• Taj Mahal - 17.7m (58ft) interior
• Rhode Island - 15.24m (50ft) interior

So, in summary, the Rhode Island State House article, Brown and Emporis are completely wrong. A couple more thoughts; St Peters was never the largest unsupported dome of any kind - It's slightly smaller than the concrete dome of the Pantheon, which is 1400 years older. Also, none of the four domes mentioned are made entirely of marble. They are all mostly brick and/or steel, with marble facings. FiggyBee 12:16, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I saw after I edited it that you've been working on the Minnesota State Capitol article. I didn't mean to tread on your toes. :) FiggyBee 12:44, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

No problem. This clears things up nicely, thanks. -- Eóin (talk) 21:19, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Psychology question

Halloween is over, so the local stores are putting up their Christmas decorations and music. I've recently read Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal. Mmy question is: Is it normal that I break out into uncontrollable laughter every time I hear the line "holy infant so tender and mild" from Silent Night? --67.185.172.158 06:51, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

No it isn't. I suggest you visit a qualified physician :-)) Astronaut 07:10, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

At least you don't think it's "hold the infant, so tender and mild." like everyone else around where I live. Kind of funny to listen to them carolers. Dureo 12:46, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Good example for our mondegreen article. -- -- JackofOz (talk) 20:56, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Given the context, I'd suggest that thinking it's funny is normal. Laughing out loud in public places is a violation of social norms, however, and the lack of ability to control this deviant behavior suggests a medicalization of these symptoms might be appropriate. Though IANAP (where P = psychiatrist), you might consider asking one about this issue. Jfarber 14:35, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Isn't anyone going to remind the original questioner that we can't give medical or dietary advice here on the reference desk? Otherwise, someone's liable to soon recommend some fava beans and a nice chianti...

Atlant 13:01, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I used to have an mp3 of Soylent Night. I can't remember who did the song but I want to say it was negativland. I'll try to find it. -- Diletante (talk) 01:38, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Maybe when you were a kid something really funny happened while that line was playing in the background, except you dont remember it, and thats why you find that particular line funny. --Candy-Panda (talk) 03:23, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Usenet groups legality

I'm not sure if this should be in the entertainment section, computing or where but here goes... With the large record companies having the clout to shut down music sharing internet sites, busting pirate companies all over the world and even taking individual people to court, is there any reason why the usenet groups have remained relatively untouched and generally out of the debate? For a resource that lets people easily download just about everything it seems low on the 'get rid of it' priority list. Kirk UK 88.144.64.61 09:21, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

It's possibly the distributed and decentralised nature of usenet which presents the problem. --Tagishsimon (talk) 09:34, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I think it's more down to the fact that Usenet is simply off most large media companies' radar. They don't understand it, largely because it predates the Web. Also I suspect the amount of file sharing that goes on via Usenet is not huge. These days, newsgroups are increasingly accessed via Google Groups, which I think does not allow for sharing of multimedia files. So in order to download you have to use a news client, which are not always particularly easy to set up. Furthermore, many ISPs don't provide news servers any more.

The same goes for IRC. It's possible to download all sorts of stuff on IRC channels, but most people don't know anything about IRC, and for those who do, it's not really worth the bother. --Richardrj 09:45, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Disagree; I'm sure it is on the agenda. I think their defence tends to be in adding useless file data, and in getting one out of the n posts which make up a RAR or a ZIP taken down, such that the whole file is useless. YMMV --Tagishsimon (talk) 09:56, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I do not know if this practice is done by media companies or by virus/trojan creators, but if you browse the listings for say (it was quite common in one of the Erotica video groups_) you'll find listings for scene releases but the content of the releases does not match the ground name. So they will have an XviD release done by RNS, which is an mp3 group or an XXX DVD release by LOL, which traditionally releases XviD TV rips.--152.2.62.27 13:53, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

GFDL and re-use of article

My questions: ++What else would I have to do? Is there something about linking to the GFDL? ++Where do I have to do this. It seems crazy to list the contributors and the GFDL Text with an article thats of one page only.++Can I just give the URL address of the site from where the article is taken. In such a case is the copyright law violated? If yes, what is the way out?

I'm sure this has been answered before, but I can't track down any answers and I'm having a heck of a time understanding exactly how to comply with the GNU FDL. I've read the license several times but could not get an answer to my question. If I see an Article, which is part of a compilation that is licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License and I make it into a derivitive work such as a newsletter or a journal that I then distribute to clients, what must I do?

Thank you all so very much in advance for your help. Nurture 11:33, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

On the web, licence your instance of the text under the GFDL, and linking to the GFDL, are all you need to do. That could be done by a single line at the foot of the page. In print ... maybe a bit more difficult. You'd satisfy the spirit by saying "This article licenced under the GFDL, details at http:// some web address. I think technically you need to include the whole of the GFDL licence, which is why Creative Commons seems to be more popular - see the cartoon at Commons:Licensing, for instance. A link back to the original article, I think, will satisfy any conditions on the listing of the authors. --Tagishsimon (talk) 11:57, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:GFDL Compliance indicates what wikipedia expects, citing four levels of compliance:

• Undetermined or disputed: Either more research is needed, or it is disputed.
• Low/None: Fails in a very significant way, usually by lacking mention of Misplaced Pages, the GFDL, or both.
• Medium: Makes an effort to comply, usually including mention of Misplaced Pages and the GFDL. May link to offsite GFDL, and/or lack link to original article.
• High: Approximates our licence; should link to original article; should link to local GFDL; should list original authors and dates.

Misplaced Pages:Mirrors and forks notes, regarding authors, that the copy: must acknowledge the main authors (which some claim can be accomplished with a link back to that article on Misplaced Pages). I'd tend to agree with that. --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:09, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Technically you are supposed to include the entire GFDL with your copy of the article. Sound crazy? It is! The GFDL is not an ideal license for re-using material at all. Imagine trying to use photograph with a GFDL license in a magazine! ---- 24.147.86.187 (talk) 18:06, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Sport amongst non-humans

Are there any other animals that could be said to play any kind of sport? Not just cats play fighting, but something with some sort of rules/structure based play. I'm thinking like perhaps monkeys might play 'defend the tree' or animals may play something akin to British Bulldogs (or whatever other places call the game). ny156uk 16:43, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Not sure if this meets your criteria, but it seems interesting and relevant. Doubt you're gonna see "sport" in the way most people think of it, but definitely appears that certain animals do exhibit play behavior with some kind of consistent rules/structure. Also, I've seen video of chimps playing soccer, doing karate, playing pac-man, etc., though I doubt that's what you were looking for; monkey see, monkey do after all. I also vaguely remember one of the Steves pointing out in response to some question that his dog follows a set of rules in playing the "tug o' war" game with a rope. -- Azi Like a Fox (talk) 17:22, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

The Misplaced Pages article on otters says they play at tobogganing, though other sources claim that they only slide as a means of locomotion. ---- Milkbreath (talk) 18:02, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Ravens are said to enjoy a little sliding on their backs in the snow. This mentions it. I think there was a National Geographic article about it years ago, with photos. -- Corvus cornix (talk) 19:05, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Excellent responses - thanks everyone. I particularly like the idea of ravens doing a form of sledging down hills in the snow! Sounds great. ny156uk (talk) 01:00, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

You see some interesting competitive behavior in leks. Not sure whether you'd call it "play" though. -- Diletante (talk) 01:16, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

It's really obvious that animals 'play' - play being practice for real activities, mostly (but not entirely) undertaken by the young - who most need the practice. The real question here is whether there are rules to that play.

I think you can see clear rules in the way dogs play. My dogs play at least three distinct games with us and (to a lesser extent) each other - which all seem to have "rules". One, for example, I call "Three inches away and growling". The dog has a toy in it's mouth and will come up to you like they want to play catch or some kind of pulling game - as you reach towards them, they'll stand absolutely still until your hand gets with in three inches of the toy and then quickly pull it away so you can't quite reach it. This behavior gets repeated over and over - usually with some play-growling going on at the same time. Your job is to try to distract the dog with one hand so you can sneak in and grab the toy with the other. This seems to be a game - and it has just one essential rule: The dog isn't allowed to simply move the toy out of reach immediately - (because that's too easy and this is a test of reaction speed). So only when your hand gets within three inches are they allowed to react. Yeah - it's simple, but dogs are simple.

Even rough-and-tumble fighting games have a "rule": You have to execute a 'play bow' before you start in order to indicate that this is "just for fun" and not a real fight. So each dog will lower their head to the ground with their tails up in the air prior to the start of the game. Unless both dogs do this, the game can't start (or, it'll end badly with some actual vicious yelping barks and real biting because someone didn't want to play).

SteveBaker (talk) 15:41, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Installing adobe flash player

I can't seem to install flash plater. I downloaded the exe and ran it. After a couple seconds, it said done and hit close but it didn't do anything as far as I can tell and I definitely don't have flash player...

Did you close your browser and re-launch it? ---- 24.147.86.187 (talk) 18:07, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. It just doesn't do anything.

Well, try it again. ---- 24.147.86.187 (talk) 20:11, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I did. Several times. Nothing is happening.

Well, perhaps you could be a little more verbose in explaining what happens, what type of operating system you are using, what browsers you are using, etc. We aren't psychic here ---- 24.147.86.187 (talk) 21:14, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Windows vista with firefox

24, are you talking to yourself again? --- SandyJax (talk) 22:36, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

WP:CIVIL. The question was originally asked by User:206.169.187.67, whose IP resolves to Time-Warner in Los Angeles. 24 appears to be Comcast Cable in Massachusetts. Corvus cornix (talk) 00:46, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Again? I don't talk to myself. Not on here anyway. And I sign my posts! Also, it would be a little counter-productive to argue with myself over something like this. when I do ask questions they are usually over verbose, not terse! --24.147.86.187 (talk) 05:33, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I have the same trouble with Firefox and XP. You should really be asking this at the Computing desk though. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:53, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that's the way you install Firefox plugins. You should go to a page that has flash content, and Firefox will give you notification that additional plugins are needed. Click install additional plugins, and it'll install Flash by itself. No exe file needed. --antilived 09:57, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Pool Noodles

Does anyone know what the exact name for the material pool noodles are made of is?

What, pray, are pool noodles? -- DuncanHill (talk) 19:41, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Why, they are Pool noodles, of course! And they are made of polystyrene foam, according to the article. - Eron 19:44, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I had bizarre visions of Olympic-sized pot-noodles! -- DuncanHill (talk) 20:13, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

That's obviously wrong. That's Styrofoam. Googling seems to indicate that it's EVA foam. ---- Milkbreath (talk) 20:11, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

The pot plot thickens: this link suggests that it's polyethylene foam. I'm itching to improve the article, but now I don't know how! - Eron 20:21, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm doing it now. EVA is a kind of polyethylene foam, sort of. ---- Milkbreath (talk) 20:23, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

(I can't believe I'm actually discussing this) Here are some more links in support of the polyethylene foam theory: . I read the description of EVA and its uses and it didn't seem quite right to me. - Eron 20:35, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

That Thermotec link looks legitimate, but they don't say what their "Supafoam" is, exactly. The other two are ads, which I don't think we can trust to get the science right. You might be right, but we're not there yet. And what do you mean you don't believe? These pool noodles are the greatest thing since the Hula hoop. ---- Milkbreath (talk) 20:47, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I am hoping to find a patent application somewhere that will nail it down. And don't get me wrong; I love the noodle. I'll just never be able to sneer at seemingly pointless pages again. - Eron 20:52, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I've changed the article to read "polyethylene foam", but I'd still like to nail it down. ---- Milkbreath (talk) 21:13, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

This is a most edifying thread, and pool noodles seem to have that effect! They were also used to build a fun and flexible model of the double helix, in celebration of "DNA Day". ---Sluzzelin talk 07:14, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

The exact name is "Funoodle"

Buying a digital camera - UK High Street.

Please don't bin this as I am NOT seeking legal advice - merely purchasing guidance. I bought a digital camera from a well-known Uk Photo Shop that turned out to be well below advertised standards - and returned it per the company's 30 day returns policy. But was told I had invalidated that policy because I had opened the software packet and loaded it onto my PC - but had NOT registered the software - or the camera. I was told that at the instant I opened the packet, I had breached the copyright license and had thus invalidated the whole returns policy. BUT, how could I have otherwise transferred the digipics I took as part of my sampling process when the camera was NOT recognised by my PC unless I loaded the camera-specific software. I eventually resolved the situation to my satisfaction - but only after threatening Trading Standards authority intervention etc., but seriously, when I was offered (and accepted) a replacement, on opening the box, the first words I saw were instructions that I should first load the enclosed software???????????????????????????

Well done for getting satisfaction. I would think this would fall under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 since, as you say, you can only establish the bona fides of the product by opening the package. File under "vendor trying it on". I don't know what case law there is in this area - IINAL - but I know concerns exactly as yours have been raised many times about so-called shrink wrap contracts - e.g. Cory Doctorow - "Shrinkwrap Licenses: An Epidemic of Lawsuits Waiting to Happen" --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:51, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

So long as the software was uninstalled when the camera and software disc were returned then there is no problem whatsoever with copyright. The software licence trumps their returns policy. ---- WebHamster 23:59, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Also, drivers and accompanying software are commonly publicly available through the manufacturer's website. Using copyrights as an excuse is simply invalid if you're allowed to acquire such software without actually buying the camera. --antilived 09:52, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I recently had to return camcorders to both Sony and Panasonic shops and they refunded instantly withou question. Great service.--88.110.2.66 (talk) 12:14, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

November 17

Colorblindness restrictions

I acknowledge that there are various forms of colorblindness. But could a colorblind person have difficulties distinguishing between a yellow and red traffic light? As well, could it be a potential limitation for future careers such as a graphic designer and pilot? Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 01:37, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes (and between red and green), although shape and position of the lights helps. Yes, it is a potential limitation - Colourblind people can get private pilot licenses in most places, providing they can demonstrate they are not unsafe, but military and commercial aviation generally requires accurate colour vision. You can read the ICAO opinion on colourblindness here. FiggyBee (talk) 01:57, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

As for graphic design, I could imagine someone being a just fine designer despite having red/green issues—color is important for design, but in many cases it is not as important as a good eye for proportion and a good sense of creativity. Every once in awhile they'd probably do something accidentally outrageous to the non-colorblind but that wouldn't be that hard to correct for if they had an editor. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 05:31, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

A LOT depends on which kind of colour blindness you're talking about. You have three types of colour sensor in your eye. Red, Green and Blue. Any or all of those could be faulty - and they could either be 'weak' (ie producing a smaller visual response than they should) or absent altogether. So, for example, you might not be able to see red - or you might see red only weakly. So you could have Red-missing, Red-weak, Green-missing, Green-weak, Blue-missing, Blue-weak or (very rarely) combinations of those (eg Red-weak, Blue-missing). There are fancy names for each variety and combination.

My son has one of the mildest and most common forms of red/green colourblindness, his green sensors are weak, He tells me that he can easily tell the difference between the colours on a traffic light - and not just by their position. But he does have some clear restriction in the area of red/yellow/orange/green discrimination. We only found out that he was colourblind at all because I was nagging him for continually leaving his Nintendo Wii game console in 'standby' (or 'pause') mode instead of turning it off. The console has one of those tricolour LED's that shows Red when it's plugged in but turned off, orange when it's in 'standby' and green when it's fully on. It turns out that the orange and the red LED colours were ALMOST indistinguishable to him. I wondered if he was colourblind and gave him one of the many online colourblindness tests - which he failed (he subsequently had the high school nurse run the same test with a proper calibrated set of tests and got the same result). I think he has a 'weak' green sensor - so colours that are predominantly red but with small amounts of green differentiating them are hard for him to distinguish. Somehow that messes up his red/orange perception in LED light but not for traffic lights. It's a subtle business evidently.

While I've definitely heard that being colour blind is a limiting factor in aviation - and a problem for graphic designers, it depends a HECK of a lot on which kind of colourblindness you have. There are about a dozen variations - some more severe than others. In fact, my son's main passion in life is 3D computer graphics - and he's been turning out excellent work in that field since he was 7 years old. The fact than neither he nor I could tell that he was colour blind for 16 years - half of which were when his major passion was in an area where colour mattered greatly - means that this is not in any way a limiting factor until you come to being able to turn off your Wii! The ICAO aviation test mentioned above requires you to distinguish red, green and white - which you can do with the most common forms of colour blindness because white contains blue - so if you are missing or weak with either red or green, your blue sensor will still tell you which one is white. Similarly, inless you are missing both red and green, you'll easily be able to tell the difference between the red and green lights because one or the other would appear much darker than the other.

Actually, this discovery of his problem has been greatly upsetting to him - because he worries that it might limit him in a future career - and since it is such a very minor limitation, I really wish I'd never tested him. We've tried lots of practical tests on the computer - and aside from the official colourblindness tests (the ones with the numbers made out of coloured dots), and red/orange/green LED's - it's impossible to fool him.

Incidentally, we figured out a way to fix the Wii problem. We taped a sheet of green plastic over the LED. That filters out most of the red light so the LED is almost dark when it's showing red, a dim shade of green when it's showing orange and a bright shade of green when it's on. This is plenty good enough for him to distinguish between the three states.

But - as I said, some people are profoundly colour blind - and that an entirely different matter.

SteveBaker (talk) 15:14, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi: The men (and some of the women) in my family "suffer" from colorblindness. You should know that the "red" and "green" lights on a stoplight are not pure red and green. They are orange-red and blue-green. That's so we colorblind people can tell the difference. Colorblind people can learn to notice the small differences in colors that others take for granted. I remember as a child getting flipped out by the horizontal traffic lights in downtown Cincinnati, because it was difficult for me then to tell the red and yellow lights apart without the top-bottom difference. I'm pretty sure you can't be a pilot and be colorblind. My grandfather wanted to join the Air Corps during WWII, but was disallowed because of his colorblindness. It was fortunate -- several friends who did join the Air Corps never came back. My grandfather wound up spending the war repairing tanks in England. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:47, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Re-use of Article

My Questions: ++I have taken an article, of about one page, from the Misplaced Pages and want to use it for distribution, to my clients as a newsletter (printed copies). I have decided to add the URL Address of the page as a reference at the end of the page. In such a case, am I violating the copyrights law? ++If yes, what is the way out?

Nurture (talk) 10:14, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Technically, the terms of the GFDL require that the full text be appended to any documents licensed under it. In practice, however, it's generally acceptable to provide a credit tagline at the end of the article. Type in the article name at Special:Cite for a few potential layouts. If the article includes any pictures, it's probably a good idea to add separate credits for them. GeeJo ⁄_(c) • 14:14, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree - nobody is going to bother you for not including the entire text of the GFDL (a couple of pages) with every copy of a one page article - so long as you clearly state where the article came from, that it is licensed under the GFDL and where the GFDL can be found. It's plenty good enough to say something like:

"This article has been reprinted from Misplaced Pages (www.wikipedia.org) under the terms of the GFDL (en.wikipedia.org/WP:GFDL)".

SteveBaker (talk) 14:45, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, legally it is not 100% plenty good but practically it is. Legally the GFDL says that no only you have to include the entire text, no matter what size of material you are reproducing, but you have to go through the trouble of indicating which version it is from the article history, a list of its authors, etc. Totally, totally impractical for offline dealings, and IMO it's too bad that Misplaced Pages didn't dual-license under its own more-free license from the start. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 16:05, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

There has been significant discussion about adopting the GNU Simplified License at the next licence update (which is allowed by the terms of the GFDL). I've not read the thing in detail, but hopefully by the time it moves on from the draft stage it'll've redacted most of the unwieldy aspects of the current licence. GeeJo ⁄_(c) • 17:38, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Is there a word for fear of flying ladybugs?

I've been scared of them since I was a tiny kid! MalwareSmarts (talk) 16:55, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Yahoo Answers says it's Coccinellidaephobia, though given that all 6 ghits for that word point to Yahoo Answers, I'm guessing someone made it up by tacking "phobia" on to the latin word for ladybug. It's really a very specific form of entomophobia. - Eron 17:06, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Find a computer through it's MAC adress

Is it possible to find a stolen computer when it connects to the internet with its MAC adress? Keria (talk) 18:26, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure only the router it is on sees the MAC address. So yes, you could, but only if the router it connected to is one which you controlled. And even then, the most you could do is say, "Jinkies, someone has connected my computer to the internets!" and maybe deny them internet access. Maybe if you had your router's IP assignment very well set up you could say which internet outlet it was plugged into in your building, but again, that depends on them using it on YOUR specific router. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 20:39, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, MAC is a physical-layer thing and this information won't exist in the IP layer. You can only see MAC address on the local network segment. Also I think it's pretty standard these days that MAC addresses can be easily changed by the end user. Friday (talk) 20:42, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

need to verify a name of hospital in Africa

I hope that someone can help me to find out if there are Iwosan clinics in Nigeria. Someone told me that there is a clinic in 7 fola coker street Ijebu ode, Ogun state. Will you please verify this place of address? Am seeking a friend thats there and am not sure if is still there and be of that address too.

thanks,

Kenneth Allen Khalln (talk) 22:34, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Motorola Razor Cell Phone

Does anyone know how to (and whether or not it is even possible to) change the following "setting" on a Motorola Razor cell phone? In my cell phone's address book, all of the entries are listed as such: (for example) John Smith 18005551212. Is it possible to make the address book entries read as such: John Smith 1-800-555-1212 ... (that is, with the three traditional dashes placed in the telephone number in the correct positions)? It's extremely difficult to read the telephone numbers when all eleven digits are strung together with no separations at all. Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:57, 18 November 2007 (UTC))

Vaudeville Performers

I am looking for information on a vaudeville duo by the name of Jillson and Reed.209.244.188.57 (talk) 01:36, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Urinal Cakes in the mouth?

What happens when you hold a urinal cake in your mouth? Are they toxic? How does it taste? BradTimlin (talk) 02:09, 18 November 2007 (UTC)