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:The other anon, ], your speech turns out wrong per this info. There has '''11 Korean native fruits so far'''. The articles related to plants are missing so many info. In addition, ], you know less of your country fruits. Japan own some species by researching and developing and sells the seeds or fruit trees to other countries such as North America, Brazil, Korea, Taiwan. Why don't you care more about your country fruits? Countries surely own fruit species. If you wanted to look yourself unbiased, you should've tagged the CFD to "Japanese citrus" to back up your assumption. --] (]) 18:17, 19 November 2007 (UTC) :The other anon, ], your speech turns out wrong per this info. There has '''11 Korean native fruits so far'''. The articles related to plants are missing so many info. In addition, ], you know less of your country fruits. Japan own some species by researching and developing and sells the seeds or fruit trees to other countries such as North America, Brazil, Korea, Taiwan. Why don't you care more about your country fruits? Countries surely own fruit species. If you wanted to look yourself unbiased, you should've tagged the CFD to "Japanese citrus" to back up your assumption. --] (]) 18:17, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


::It shouldn't be just native but also '''unique''' and '''exclusive''' to a country in terms of origin. Otherwise fruits like apple must belong in tons of categories. Korea has zero such fruits. For Japan, fruits like Dekopon are created in Japan.--] (]) 20:08, 19 November 2007 (UTC) ::It shouldn't be just native but also '''unique''' and '''exclusive''' to a country in terms of origin. Otherwise fruits like apple must belong in tons of categories. Korea has zero such fruits. For Japan, fruits like ] and ] are created in Japan.--] (]) 20:08, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


==== Category:Genre hybrid games ==== ==== Category:Genre hybrid games ====

Revision as of 20:16, 19 November 2007

< November 12 November 14 >

November 13

Category:Incumbent Native American leaders

The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was merge. the wub "?!" 16:00, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Propose merging Category:Incumbent Native American leaders to Category:Native American leaders
Nominator's rationale: Per ample precedent, for ease of maintenance, and because stable information is preferred for individuals, we shouldn't have categories for "current" leaders. – Black Falcon 20:57, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge per nom; no current cats difficult to maintain. Carlossuarez46 23:16, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
  • KeepI don't know why you prefer that we don't have categories for incumbent leaders. I use those categories, and I have found them very informative in learning about world leaders. Why not keep this category so that people can learn about incumbent Native American leaders? What precedent is there for this? And what do you mean by "stable" information? Biographies of living people are not stable by definition, they constantly need to be updated with notable events in that person's life. And why would they be easier to maintain if they were all in one category? I'm just rather baffled here. Asarelah 03:31, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
    • I will answer your questions in turn, to the best of my ability.
      • Why not keep this category so that people can learn about incumbent Native American leaders? Categories for incumbent leaders require constant maintenance and updating. While this is fairly easy to do with a list – where one need to watch over only one page – it is much more complex with a category, since the contents of a category are determined by edits made to articles and not to the category itself. See Misplaced Pages:Categories, lists, and series boxes.
      • What precedent is there for this? See here for a partial list.
      • And what do you mean by "stable" information? By "stable information", I mean information that doesn't change over time. Attributes such as year of birth/death, nationality, and current or former profession are stable over time for individuals; attributes such as current office are, by definition, not. Information in articles is updated all the time, but categories should not be treated the same as articles. They are much more difficult to monitor, maintain, and update.
      • And why would they be easier to maintain if they were all in one category? For the reason stated above. Membership in the "incumbent" category, unlike membership in the more general parent category, is not stable or permanent.
    • I hope that helps to dispel your confusion. Cheers, Black Falcon 06:44, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge per nom - "current" cats are indeed to be discouraged, especially large ones where the latest information may not be easy to obtain. At the same time the "relative ease of maintenance" argument is a myth; in editing terms it is arguably easier to maintain a category -you adjust the ex-incumbent's article, including category, then the new person's one, and that's it. With a List you have to go there as well. I think there should be rare exceptions -like the "current world leaders" categories, but this is not one of them. Johnbod 14:56, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
    • Your comment assumes that the editor in question is aware of any changes in status. That assumption is certain to be untrue with large categories, such as Category:Current mayors of cities in California. While this also applies to lists, a list can be sourced, thus allowing information to be checked and updated from time to time. – Black Falcon 17:38, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge per nom. Would require continual maintenance, and is unsuitable for CDs, printed editions, or mirrors. See also September 9th discussion. -- Prove It 15:11, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Virtual Worlds - Kids

The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was merge to Category:Virtual reality communities. the wub "?!" 16:01, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Propose renaming Category:Virtual Worlds - Kids to Category:Virtual worlds for children
Nominator's rationale: Rename, fix capitalisation avoid slang. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:31, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

*Rename per nom. Doczilla 04:00, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Andrew c  20:54, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Resort operators

Suggest merging Category:Resort operators to Category:Hospitality companies
Nominator's rationale: Merge. There is simply too much overlap here. Most hospitality companies operate resorts. Category:Hotel and leisure companies is the UK usage, but I don't believe that any of the companies here are British. It I missed any then they would need moving to the other category. Vegaswikian 20:29, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:Gerash

Category:Gerash - Template:Lc1
Nominator's rationale: There is not enough material (at this time) to justify a disinct category for this city of 30000 people in Larestan County, Fars Province, Iran. The category's sole member already appears in Category:Larestan County. – Black Falcon 20:23, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:Korean fruits

Category:Korean fruits - Template:Lc1
Nominator's rationale: Delete - Countries don't own fruit species. --Saintjust 19:35, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment - If you examine the Category:Korean cuisine category, you'll see that we use subcategories to designate various elements of Korean cuisine, including food ingredients. Whether the fruit may have originated in China or not is immaterial; assuring easy navigation and logical subcategorization for our users is paramount. These fruits are indisputably extremely significant parts of Korean cuisine, all of them used extensively and strongly associated with this national cuisine as historically and culturally significant ingredients. Badagnani 19:58, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Commnet - First of all, Saintjust, you should've notified me of this deletion proposal because I created the category and am surely responsible for this process. Back to the point, at that time making the category, I was relatively a newbie (still don't know much of wiki rules), so I referred to the Category:Japanese citrus for sorting Korean ingredients. I don't mind this category being deleted even though many Korean native fruits are existing according to the Korean Plant Data Base. There are not many Korean editors here to dedicate to creating articles regarding Korean fruits. However, the same rule has to be applied to "Japanese citrus" because countries don't own fruits according to Saintjust's rationale. --Appletrees 11:39, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Commnet The category Japanese citrus has at least 3 citruses that are native to Japan. The category Korean fruits has none. And I suppose that your vote here is "delete" since you are suggesting the deletion of the category Japanese citrus. --61.202.37.174 (talk) 16:23, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Commnet - Well, I didn't add Korean native fruits yet to the category. Korea is a peninsula, so of course there has unique fruits compared to continent and island. Lingonberry is also one of the native Korean fruits. And the voters say even though Korea has native fruits, the number at the time Saintjust tagged was not enough to keep it. I just want a same standard. And I didn't propose the deletion of this category. Why don't you see Saintjust's rationale, and other' opinions like "Countries don't own fruits". I only see why he brought this up here--Appletrees (talk) 16:56, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
  • FYI - After 211.3.113.222, this mysterious anon of Osaka, Japan tagged the Korean fruit category to fruits native to Korea, this category has 18 Korean fruits. It is booming! However, 7 species among them are not really native to Korea after I checked on them, so eleven species are truely Koran native fruits in the category so far.
Except dekopon, lychee, pomegranate, the fruits are greatly cultivated and consumed in Korea and Japan.
Pomegranate - not native to any of China, Korea, Japan
Dekopon - It is certainly developed species by Japan but has no info regarding native country.
Lychee - native to China and Southeast Asia
Mikan - native only to China
Prunus salicina - only native to China but according to wiki page, it is called Japanese plum. From whom? weird.
Ume - native only to China
Yuzu - native only to China
The other anon, 61.202.37.174, your speech turns out wrong per this info. There has 11 Korean native fruits so far. The articles related to plants are missing so many info. In addition, Saintjust, you know less of your country fruits. Japan own some species by researching and developing and sells the seeds or fruit trees to other countries such as North America, Brazil, Korea, Taiwan. Why don't you care more about your country fruits? Countries surely own fruit species. If you wanted to look yourself unbiased, you should've tagged the CFD to "Japanese citrus" to back up your assumption. --Appletrees (talk) 18:17, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
It shouldn't be just native but also unique and exclusive to a country in terms of origin. Otherwise fruits like apple must belong in tons of categories. Korea has zero such fruits. For Japan, fruits like Dekopon and Fuji (apple) are created in Japan.--61.202.37.174 (talk) 20:08, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:Genre hybrid games

The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was delete. the wub "?!" 16:04, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:Genre hybrid games - Template:Lc1
Nominator's rationale: Delete. This seems to be overcategorization in my view. as many video games are technically two (or more game types). There is many action adventure games, as well as strategy RPG and so on. RobJ1981 18:13, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete most games can be lumped into two genres and so become hybrids. If kept, re-name focusing on video games otherwise backgammon and contract bridge qualify as a hybrid of games of chance and games of skill - two genres. Carlossuarez46 01:35, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
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Category:William Butler Yeats

Category:William Butler Yeats - Template:Lc1
Nominator's rationale: Delete - eponymous overcategorization. Otto4711 17:30, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:Orientalists

Propose renaming There is a whole collection of subcategries which require renaming, such as Category:British Orientalists to Category:British orientalists, Category:British Egyptologists, Category:Russian Hebraists. etc. The driver of the "renaming bot" must go through the whole tree of Category:Orientalists fishing out all miscaps.
Nominator's rationale: Rename, capitalization. `'Míkka>t 16:43, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:Pokémon items

Category:Pokémon items - Template:Lc1
Nominator's rationale: With all items but two found in List of Pokémon items, this category is too small to be useful and will not see significant expansion. Upmerge into Category:Pokémon. Pagrashtak 16:37, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:Fictional child characters in television programs

The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was delete. the wub "?!" 16:08, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:Fictional child characters in television programs (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Delete, no good place to put this since fictional children was deleted. -- Prove It 14:53, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Wrestling venues

The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was delete. the wub "?!" 16:08, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:Wrestling venues - Template:Lc1
Nominator's rationale: Delete this and child categories. The vast majority of arenas in the US have hosted a touring wrestling act at one point. This would be no different then adding a Disney on Ice venue category everywhere. ccwaters 13:41, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm contemplating whether to AFD Wrestling arena as well. ccwaters 18:13, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Please do. Otto4711 18:47, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Wrestling arena ccwaters 21:43, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Elder women in television programs

The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was delete. the wub "?!" 16:09, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:Elder women in television programs - Template:Lc1
Nominator's rationale: Delete' From the category text, this category seems to want to mix fictional characters and real people, which is not a good idea; also, it uses an arbitrary inclusion criteria (why is 55 "elderly") - note the problem of allowing categorization if people "appear to be" 55+. Bencherlite 09:08, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Former designated terrorist organizations (2)

The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was split into Category:Defunct organizations designated as terrorist and Category:Organizations formerly designated as terrorist. the wub "?!" 16:14, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:Former designated terrorist organizations - Template:Lc1
Propose splitting into Category:Defunct organizations designated as terrorist and Category:Organizations formerly designated as terrorist
Nominator's rationale: The previous CFD was closed as no consensus, but User:Hersfold suggested that we split the category in two parts. Category:Former organizations designated as terrorists and Category:Organizations formerly designated as terrorists. This way we can separate the good guys, who chose not to practice terrorism anymore and the ones that no longer exist. I believe majority showed support to what Hersfold suggested. VartanM 08:13, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Split per Otto and named per Otto. Carlossuarez46 01:38, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete, per my comments in the previous discussion that this sort of categorisation-by-the-selectively-applied-labels-of-powerful states embeds the POV of a few powerful countries into the category system. I am aware that this category is the result of a previous compromise over the unqualified application of the term "terrorist", but it sets a very bad precedent. I can see no substantive difference between this and categories such as "countries designated as imperialist", "countries designated as rogue states", "leaders praised as Democrats". --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:06, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Fictional fire victims

The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was delete. the wub "?!" 16:15, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Propose renaming Category:Fictional fire victims to Category:Fictional burn victims
Nominator's rationale: Rename. "Fictional fire victims" could mean many things, including losing one's home to a fire. A hospital treats burn victims. Characters for whom this is a defining quality are fictional burn victims. Doczilla 07:46, 13 November 2007 (UTC) Deletion would be okay too. Note that Misplaced Pages has neither Category:Fire victims nore Category:Burn victims. Butterfly McQueen died from burns incurred in a fire, but is only categorized under accidental death, not as a fire or burn victim. Doczilla 07:49, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete. If being in a fire is not significant enough to mention in most articles it is not a defining characteristic. How can a film be a fire victim? Vegaswikian 07:54, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete - being a burn victim is in many if not most instances not a defining characteristic. Inclusion criteria can never be objective. If a fictional character gets tortured with a cigarette s/he's a "burn victim" as is a character who picks up a too-hot coffeepot. Otto4711 14:06, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete Neither being a fire victim nor being a burn victim is a defining characteristic. I was going to nominate this page for deletion myself. szyslak 20:05, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete poor Bambi & Thumper Carlossuarez46 01:39, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep I think it just takes a little common sense when using this category. Certain characters, such as Zuko or Freddy Kreuger, are noticably affected by fire and it is a very defining characteristic for them. A character who gets burned with a cigarette at one point shouldn't be included in the category because that's not a defining characteristic. Like I said, just use common sense and it will work fine. --Piemanmoo 08:44, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
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Category:The Authority members

The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was delete. the wub "?!" 16:16, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:The Authority members - Template:Lc1
Nominator's rationale: Delete superhero team member category per overwhelming precedent. Doczilla 07:35, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Gen¹³ members

The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was delete. the wub "?!" 16:16, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:Gen¹³ members - Template:Lc1
Nominator's rationale: Delete per oh so many other superteam category member deletions. Doczilla 07:31, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Retro automobile trend

The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was rename. the wub "?!" 16:16, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Propose renaming Category:Retro automobile trend to Category:Retro style automobiles
Nominator's rationale: The articles in this category are for automobiles, not a "trend" (which is a subjective term) itself. I would also suggest "Retro-styled automobiles" as an alternative name.. or possibly a discussion to delete the category altogether. --Vossanova 19:05, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Black Falcon 07:00, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Eponyms

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The result of the debate was keep. the wub "?!" 16:17, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:Eponyms - Template:Lc1
Nominator's rationale: Delete. This category categorizes articles by their titles, rather than by their subjects. Powers 22:26, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Black Falcon 06:55, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Mandaen

The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was rename. the wub "?!" 16:18, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Propose renaming Category:Mandaen to Category:Mandaeism
Nominator's rationale: Rename to reflect the name of the topic, not an adjective. Eliyak T·C 04:21, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Eikaiwa

Propose renaming Category:Eikaiwa to Category:to be determined by consensus
Nominator's rationale: Eikaiwa is a Japanese term, not in common usage outside of Japan. Although we have an Eikaiwa article, categories (as listed in Category:Companies of Japan for example) should be named more conducively towards non-specialists. A discussion has taken place at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Japan#Capitalization which favors a non-Eikaiwa word, although the exact terminology can still be debated here. Neier 10:59, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Rename and, suggest rename to Language schools of Japan, as some schools teach many languages besides English. - Neier 10:59, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment I'm fine with "Language schools of Japan", but as I am not too familiar with the eikaiwa world, I wonder: Is there a significant difference between eikaiwa companies/schools and other language schools, in their organization, teaching methods, etc? In other words, is there any reason to define eikaiwa separately as its own special category of language schools? If so, then I think we should enforce that difference in our naming. LordAmeth 23:16, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Rename to Category:English conversation schools in Japan. My understanding is that eikaiwa schools differ in that they only teach oral conversational skills—there is generally no study of written language at all; the focus is on helping people be able to converse in English. (The public school system's courses in English have more of an emphasis on English writing and grammar and being able to read English.) Also, the word "eikaiwa" in Japanese specifically describes a school that teaches English language conversation—an eikaiwa that teaches a language other than English is an oxymoron. Snocrates 04:44, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Eikaiwa refers to a particular type of object that is unique to Japan. In such cases, and since the article is located at Eikaiwa, it is justifiable to use the original-language term. – Black Falcon 23:55, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Andrew c  02:15, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:Eerste Divisie 2006/2007

The following discussion is an archived debate regarding the category or categories above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was delete. the wub "?!" 16:19, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:Eerste Divisie 2006/2007 - Template:Lc1
Nominator's rationale: This category contains only one article, Eerste Divisie 2006-07, and could only contain that article, because nothing noteworthy or encyclopedic happened during the season. The article Eerste Divisie 2006-07 is included in Category:Eerste Divisie seasons, the parent of the nominated category. Aecis 00:45, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
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Category:Stikine Volcanic Belt

Propose renaming Category:Stikine Volcanic Belt to Category:Northern Cordilleran Volcanic Province
Nominator's rationale: Rename, Northern Cordilleran volcanic province is the newer term than Stikine Volcanic Belt. Black Tusk 01:23, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Then go ahead and make the merge. We certainly only need one article on one subject. I know nothing of the subject however. Peterkingiron (talk) 19:26, 18 November 2007 (UTC)