Revision as of 16:52, 28 November 2007

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Edit this section for new requests

Edit warring related to "The Troubles"

The article Birmingham pub bombing is the subject of an edit war involving parties to the Arbcom case on "The Troubles". Two substantive issues appear to be in dispute: whether it is appropriate to add the article to Category:Massacres in the United Kingdom and whether the article should include a list of those killed in the explosion.

Relevant links:

• Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles#Involved_parties
• Birmingham pub bombing revision log during the edit war
• Discussion on the Irish Wikipedians' notice board
• Talk:Birmingham pub bombings#Birmingham_Six_names
• Discussion on my talk page: User talk:BrownHairedGirl#Birmingham_Pub_Bombings

I have participated in the IWNB dicussion and expressed some views on the substantive issues on my talk page, so I take no view on whether arbcom enforcement is appropriate, beyond noting that it may fall within the arbcom ruling that "edit-warring or disruptive editing on these or related articles may be placed on Misplaced Pages:Probation by any uninvolved administrator".

I note that the edit-war appears to be fizzling out, with the last edit at 02:07 today. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:30, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

See Also:

• User:Dreamafter/Mediation/Answer/Summaries/Final/Discussion
• this
• and this --Domer48 (talk) 16:48, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree with BHG. This is the sort of edit-warring that the probation was designed to stop. Having been chastised for enforcing the probation previously, as an "involved" admin, admins such as myself, BHG, Alison and SirFozzie are not in a position to do so. Could an "uninvolved" editor please take the appropriate action regarding those that have been ignoring their weekly WP:1RR limit. Rockpocket 20:56, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

See also the latest edit war at . - Kittybrewster ☎ 11:40, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Gosh, it's quiet here. We should have a visitors' book for the people who find their way here! It does seem rather pointless having the ArbCom going to all the time and effort of considering 'the Troubles' if neither that Committee nor an 'uninvolved Admin' is prepared to enforce the judgment six weeks after it was handed down and one week since BrownHairedGirl posted her request for enforcement. Ah well! Now please excuse me - I'm off for a little light edit-warring myself! --Major Bonkers (talk) 19:45, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I looked into this a bit. As far as I can tell, none of the participants in the edit war were under probation, and the edit war has stopped because the page has been protected. So, unless I missed something (which is entirely possible), no action is required at this time. --Akhilleus

talk) 17:22, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

• This comment is inappropriate to the process of mediation or the findings of Arbcom - there was no finding not to add the list. Aatomic1 (talk) 22:06, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

• Alison, who made unfounded allegations against me during the Arbcom. Has placed me on probation. I have made this comment to the cabal and would respecfully request the input of an uninvolved administrator Aatomic1 (talk) 23:52, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

• Endorsed - I'd appreciate that, too - Alison 23:55, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
• The closing of the mediation now accurately reflects the situation Aatomic1 (talk) 00:06, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

• Not quite - Alison 00:44, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

• Looks like two parties asked for independent admin input, so here goes: 1) the opinion of the cabal seems clear 2) User:Aatomic1 clearly doesn't want to accept that, but really should...not everything goes you way in life, friend. For peer mediation to work, all parties need to be willing to give in, even when things don't go their way. 3) The ArbCom decision is very clear about edit warring on related articles. 4) User:Aatomic1 is clearly edit warring, and clearly not respecting the process, which is not a very gentlepersonly thing to do 5) Based on the ArbCom ruling, User:Alison was correct in applying the probation/pan provisions to User:Aatomic1. 6} For a community to work, everyone needs to respect each other, even when (and especially when) they disagree; I would thus strongly suggest to User:Aatomic1 that he exercise such respect. AKRadecki 00:33, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
• I agree with Akradecki. It looks like I had pretty poor timing with my earlier post here--Birmingham pub bombings was unprotected at 17:15, I posted at 17:22--so I missed out on today's edit war. But the probation of Aatomic1 seems warranted. --Akhilleus (talk) 05:49, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

On the birmingham case...the way the mediation has been done is VERY strange. The case has essentially not been closed. The input of several editors was apparently ignored. Hughsheehy (talk) 22:57, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

User:Bakasuprman / Hkelkar 2

User:Bakasuprman and User:Dbachmann were parties to the ill-starred Hkelkar 2 arbitration case. At Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Dbachmann_2, Bakasuprman has made a statement which starts "Dbachmann's pernicious racism and obvious incivility is a noxious menace on the India related pages. He is inherently prejudiced against actual Indians/Hindus editing pages on India and Hinduism..." The statement contains other allegations of racial/religious bias, supported by a collection of misinterpreted, out of context, or mischaracterized diffs, including the infamous "shithole" comment. And, when Bakasuprman refers to "Herr Dbachmann", I doubt it's intended as a mark of respect. User conduct RfCs are a place for frank speech, but this is going over the line.

Remedy #7 ("On Notice") in the Hkelkar 2 case states "All parties are reminded in the strongest possible terms that Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia and not a forum for conspiracy, personal attacks, nor the continuation of ethnic disputes by other means. Parties who continue such behaviour, and parties who consider it their moral duty to call out such behaviour, will be hit on the head with sticks until the situation improves." Since Bakasuprman's statement contains a nice helping of personal attacks and since he seems to belive that it's his moral duty to throw light on Dbachmann's supposed anti-Indian bias, I think it might be time to apply a stick. --Akhilleus (talk) 06:57, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Here – actually, Dbachmann's characterisation of "Indian trolls" does seem to be problematic. And since, there have been really offensive comments made in the past, I really doubt, if his attitude towards "the Indians" and the Indian users has improved. And some of his comments directed at the "Africans" don't really make me emphatic to his cause either. — Nearly Headless Nick {C} 07:20, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Sir Nick, I'm sure you realize that in that diff, Dbachmann was referring to this edit by User:Xyzisequation, whom I blocked as a throwaway sockpuppet. Anyone with even a passing familiarity with this area knows that there's a plague of trolling accounts afflicting Misplaced Pages's India-related articles; the continuing activities of Hkelkar and Kuntan are obvious examples.

I don't think it matters, but for completeness' sake I'll note that Sir Nick was also a party to Hkelkar 2. --Akhilleus (talk) 07:32, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Could you explain to me what does the phrase – "Indian trolls" means? Are there trolls and Indian trolls too? — Nearly Headless Nick {C} 07:36, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I would like to know that too. I remember reading that statement and going "hmm." And for completeness sake, I would like to note that I am not a party to anything. I have just noticed dab make some seriously offensive statements towards Indians in the past year or so. No, I don't have a list of wikilinks to show. --Blacksun (talk) 08:44, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Akhilleus has turned from an admin to a forum-shopper , , Akhilleus' wikilawyering for Dbachmann and Rama's Arrow (talk · contribs) is despicable. Arbcom instituted Remedy #5 for a reason, that alone should be food for thought.

Is this what Arbcom is? Misplaced Pages is a place for contributions, a place where anyone can edit. I would hope that personal feuds dont become the norm on these boards, because that certainly takes away from the value of the pedia when users are subjected to unjustified harassment. This, even while users are innocently working to protect the reputation of the pedia, which is (in no small way) tied to the quality of admins. Attempting to make admins more accountable for their actions can hardly violate the spirit of "remedy 7" which has been grossly misrepresented. Thoughtcrime.Bakaman 19:24, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

As for "Herr", I removed that after seeing that my olive branch of understanding enraged the great protector of Misplaced Pages, Akhilleus. Even as he referred to the land of my ancestors as a "shithole" and my religious brethren as "hopeless" and "sexually aroused by old people", I stood in stark contrast to his ethnocentric rants by engaging in some cultural understanding, utilizing a respectable title to refer to Dbachmann.Bakaman 19:40, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Bakaman, I'm glad that you removed the "herr" comment, but, don't try to justify it as a nicety, it was a mean thing to say. (I'm not saying this to you to downplay things that Dbachmann has said. But it is sort of hard to ask other users to be civil when you aren't being civil yourself.) futurebird (talk) 02:16, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

It's a bit more than "mean". If you're accusing someone of being racist, then mention their German (or in this case German-speaking Swiss) heritage, well...do I really have to spell out what's being implied? --Akhilleus (talk) 05:16, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, the implied accusation is lower than low. It's deeply ironic that User:Bakasuprman complains of others carrying on "personal feuds" and displaying "ethnocentric" behavior. Raymond Arritt (talk) 05:38, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Given the histories involved, Akhilleus' note here seems rather pointy and pointless. Everything he's given there is sadly, par for the course. Akhilleus would do well to post dab's vicious responses too, failing which his note here would appear hypocritical. And need I remind people here that Kelkar2 was about the arbcom unceremoniously throwing out Akhilleus' friends' case and upholding Baka and others' credentials as editors in good standing. Sarvagnya 15:25, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

You know, this is really quite brilliant. My post is about Bakasuprman, but starting with Sir Nick's first response, it's somehow turned into another flood of complaints about Dbachmann. Sarvagnya seems to be saying that Baksuprman's behavior isn't objectionable because dab's responses are "vicious". Is he saying that two wrongs make a right? At least that's an (implicit) acknowledgment that Bakasuprman's behavior is uncivil, I suppose that's a start. --Akhilleus (talk) 16:29, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Giovanni Giove

Related links:

User:Giovanni Giove User:151.67.87.93 Istrian Exodus

He was restricted to one edit per week per article with discussion. He edited Istrian Exodus EIGHT TIMES IN ONE DAY. He also is using the IP as a sock to attack user:DIREKTOR. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gp75motorsports (talk • contribs)

That IP address appears to be LEO, not Giovanni Giove. Picaroon (t) 02:20, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

I am still skeptical about him. He needs a checkuser. --Gp75motorsports (talk) 16:30, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Okay, so file one at WP:RFCU. Tell us if there are any arbitration committee decisions which require enforcement. Picaroon (t) 16:33, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

This is personal attack!!!! Giovanni Giove is in Venice and I stay in Altamura: you can control!!!! LEO is my technical and variable IP!!!! Stop this personal attack against Giovanni Giove!!!! LEO, 28 nov 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.67.85.5 (talk) 16:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC)