Misplaced Pages

Even though I, along with Edokter, am a member of the Doctor Who Wikiproject, I've closed it as disruptive. Will 21:01, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Will. If any of us stepped out of bound, review is welcome. — Edokter • Talk • 22:07, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I try not to use this forum, as I think generally most things can be handled without admin intervention, but could someone take an objective look into these three edits by this user, thanks Fasach Nua (talk) 21:10, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

1. Do we really need a seperate thread for this?
2. Stop being disruptive.

Thanks, Will 21:12, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I think a separate thread is necessary to discuss a non-admin closing Admin incident and speedily closing discussions on blatant fair use violations, it is quite a separate issue from a user's right to object to the use of inappropriate images Fasach Nua (talk) 22:06, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I am not an admin, but I personally see nothing wrong with Will's actions. He knows what he is doing. - NeutralHomer 22:10, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Just as an aside, I also took issues with Neutralhomer placing resolve tags on notices involving himself, but I'm pretty certain (though not positive) I'm not confusing him with Sceptre in this extension. El_C 03:40, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Spectre was once an admin, IIRC, so he knows what he's doing. I'd be more concerned if it were a beginner to Misplaced Pages closing discussions. However, if the filer is being disruptive with requests then there is every right to close requests by that filer. -Jéské 22:12, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Always look at the substance. Being a veteran is no indication of being correct. That approach tends towards elitism. El_C 03:40, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

First is was "decorative", now "blatant fiar use violation"? There is consensus on Misplaced Pages to allow screenshots, provided it be kept to a minimum (meaning one fair use image per article). However you somehow seem on a crusade to have this particular article get rid of it's screenshot. First with a CSD G4 nomination, now for being "decorative", which is an argument only used for overuse of images on a single page. Both nominations were baseless, and the second one in particular was onle made to make a point. There is nothing wrong with using a single screenshot on an episode article; in fact it is common practice. Then you became disruptive, taunting me into using my "admin powers" when you full know well that I can't, and won't. Fortunately, I'm not the only admin. — Edokter • Talk • 22:18, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

If I knew anything about the situation beyond screamsheet knowledge, I'd know what to look for in Fasach's contribs. What I'm getting is that someone has a grudge against an image and wants it gone, and has failed in his attempts to do so (because there was no foundation for his attempts), and is backlashing against the user who closed the second discussion as bad-faith. -Jéské 22:24, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I find it odd that this article was fine without this image a couple of hours ago, and now suddenly it is necessary to include it in order to explain some unknown "key element of the plot", yet the uploader justifies it elsewhere on the grounds that "Every Doctor Who episode has a screenshot". I find it unfortunate that User:Sceptre doesen't consider that it is legitimate to discuss if the use of this image is necessary or in wiolation of WP:FU. I would have been happier if an actual admin or someone outside the relevant wikiproject who doesn't have a vested interest took these actions. Fasach Nua (talk) 22:39, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I would have done the same, Fasach, if the nom was disruptive. Asking the other parent to abide a bad-faith nomination doesn't work. -Jéské 23:29, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Was the nomination disruptive? Fasach Nua (talk) 23:33, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

From what I read there and at the image description page, yes. -Jéské 23:36, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I'll admit what I did at the image page was a bit cheeky, and I probably shouldn't have done it, but was the nomination itself disruptive? Fasach Nua (talk) 23:40, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

(On an aside should we switch this to a talk page?) Fasach Nua (talk) 23:40, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

It appeared to be. I also see no reason why the image should be deleted from the page - its fair-use rationale for the article it's in is legitimate, it's irreproducible, and everything else for the image is in order. -Jéské 23:44, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I am unconvinced that it is there for any reason beyond decoration, I dont believe it in anyway enhances the explanation of the plot, (I can't even see where it is referenced), but I'll leave well alone Fasach Nua (talk) 23:52, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but is anyone is actually looking at the diffs cited here, before seemingly automatically not-siding with the person with the red-link for a user name whom most of us don't know? Possibly, so I'll start (looking at the diffs): how is citing Misplaced Pages as a reference makes sense? Naturally, it makes more sense to nominate a whole subsets of images for deletion, but to the argument that "Every Doctor Who episode has a screenshot" which is stated in the ref, I say 'every Family Guy episode had a screenshot,' why do we let copyrights paranoia win there and not elsewhere? They should have lost elsewhere, too. There has to be something rational behind why-this-not-that, no? (rhetorical: the answer is no, fair use is entirely arbitrary fiefdoms!) As for closing noticeboards threads that pertain to himself, regardless of how valid these may be, I had already cautioned Sceptre against doing this. So, that's not a good sign. I guess the most annoying thing for an admin reviewing this is that the original authors of this thread (not the subsection), both here and on the IfD, are just giving us enough background. Would it kill them to give us a link or two, or a sentence or two? Just let us know, then, why do you feel it's POINTy, what are the immediate antecedents behind it? El_C 03:22, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I really don't want to get sucked into this, I suspect the combativeness arises out of this discussion Misplaced Pages:Images_and_media_for_deletion/2007_November_28#Image:Fear_Her.jpg, there was also a slight disagreement over a fair use image with this uses at , beyond that I don't know much more Fasach Nua (talk) 12:07, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

You are already sucked in, if fact, you started it. The original image is deleted; that should have made everyone happy. But when I uploaded an improved image, with a proper rationale, you nominated it immediately for reasons I can only guess. Your understanding of fair use needs work. You keep removing images from pages, while the images have perfectly good rationales. You still have not properly adressed what is wrong with the fair use rationales provided; you just keep yelling "blatant fair use violation". So unless you can actually provide some valid reasoning, I suggest you refrain from further disrupting Misplaced Pages. — Edokter • Talk • 15:01, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Anyway, let IfDs run their course; speedily or otherwise, let an uninvolved admin handle it. El_C 15:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

On the issue of Tom Baker, the "perfectly good rationale" as you put it appears to be no rationale at all Image:Bakert.jpg, I would dispute whether no rationale is perfectly good!

If you want my objection to the other image then it is 3A, "As few non-free content uses as possible are included in each article and in Misplaced Pages as a whole. Multiple items are not used if one will suffice; one is used only if necessary". I do not believe that the Fear Her article necessitates this image, I can see no contribution beyond asthetics! I think this is the wrong forum to discusss this and I think the idl should have been left open! Fasach Nua (talk) 17:15, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually looking at the Image:Bakert.jpg page again, it explicitly forbids its usage in that article, and in my opinion, that is as far as you are going to get from a "perfectly good rationale" Fasach Nua (talk) 18:26, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I've let this go off topic, however summing this up my Misplaced Pages:Disruptive editing consisted of:

• Removing a fair use image from an article, when the image had no rationale for inclusion there Image:Bakert.jpg
• Listing a previously deleted image for deletion, as the user was circumventing policy, and unwilling to go to go through Misplaced Pages:Deletion review
• Listing a FU image at idl as I did not feel it was necessary Image:DW Fear Her.jpg, as it wasn't necessitated a few hours prior Fasach Nua (talk) 19:29, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

You're missing the completely disruptive edit to the image page. Will 22:25, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, I made this edit , which was virtually identical to yours Fasach Nua (talk) 12:50, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

That was a mistake - I was looking at the diffs, I closed the IfD, and must've edited your revision to remove the tag. Will 12:54, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Last warning

Fasach Nua, your disruptive behaviour stops now. If you see an error in a fair use rationale, you either explain what the error is, or better yet, fix it yourself. Reasons like "unnecessary", "decorative" and "blatant fair use violation" are not valid reasons for removal/nomination. Simply removing the image (as you did with Tom Baker) and nominating images for deletion without valid reasoning only demonstrates that your intentions are not in the best interest of Misplaced Pages. You will be blocked if you continue this fruitless crusade. — Edokter • Talk • 00:34, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

It is not a blockable offecene to follow WP policy, and I would strongly suggest you should consider going down the route of WP:CIVIL. You are just engaging in trolling, the Tom Baker image was removed as it is WP policy not to use fair use images without fair use rationales. If you are opposed to this policy I would suggest you get this changed, rather than attacking and threating me for following it. If you do not accepect article 3A WP:FU as valid, it may be an idea to get that policy altered aswell, rather than degenerating to arguemts above or such nonsence as . Fasach Nua (talk) 11:42, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

You have a point with the Tom Baker image, although a case may be made for #1 (not 3a) saying that, while it is a living person, any picture taken these days will not be representative of Baker during his acting career. However, you're not strictly following policy on the Fear Her image. For example, NFCC #8, which appears to be the reason you're opposing this image - the image is significant to the subject of the article (the episode, entire premise of the plot), while the image would be better at describing the child's drawings than a full paragraph of text. Will 12:41, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I think you misundersand the case for the Tom Baker was there was not a rationale given on the image page

The reason I am opposing Fear Her image is 3A it is not nessicary, and as you say it 'can be described using text, which would suggest that there is a free alternative to this image! Fasach Nua (talk) 12:54, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Plot summaries, IIRC, are derivative works. I could equally argue that the image is necessary to describe the child's powers while not delving into too much detail in the plot summary. Will 13:16, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

It would have been nice to thrash this out on an idl discussion, it is unfortunate that debate on this issue has been deemed disruptive :-( Fasach Nua (talk) 13:23, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I think an admin should not throw round threats like that, and I would suggest you consider you consider your position as a WP administrator Fasach Nua (talk) 11:45, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

The user is right "It is not a blockable offecene to follow WP policy", however his actions can be easily perceived as being disruptive trying to prove a point which may be blockable, regardless if the image is being used in a "decorative" manner. As a matter of fact having at least a image appears to be part of the manual of style that deals with television episodes. - Caribbean~H.Q. 13:01, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

You are seriously suggesting that removing a fair use image from an article, for which a usage rational has not been supplied, and to not use this image has consistantly been the consensus of the editors of this article, qualies as WP:POINT, and any editor removing such an image should be blocked? Fasach Nua (talk) 13:17, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

We're talking about the Fear Her image, not the Baker image. Will 13:23, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

The warning was issued after the edit to the baker image, that is why I am being threatened with a block, I have not edited the Fear her image since the discussion closed, and I have already said that I will not edit it, ] Fasach Nua (talk) 13:28, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually no, I'm saying that the obvious disruption you caused here can easily be perceived as a violation of WP:POINT. - Caribbean~H.Q. 13:29, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it probably was a violation WP:Point, I have already said I shouldnt have done that, ], and why I havent pursued it, however, is a block threat on the grounds of the Tom Baker edit justifiable, and at the risk of getting on topic was the idl disruptive? Fasach Nua (talk) 13:35, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Besides (repeatedly) removing the image from Tom Baker, you had another choice: How abaout adding a fair use rational. That would have been a constructive edit. And where is this consensus that you speak of? I see nothing about the image on the Tom baker talk page. Point is: using fair use images is not a sin, so you should not go raging around trying to get them removed whereever possible. Fixing any fair use issues is just as good, if not better approach to 'following policy'. — Edokter • Talk • 16:36, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Main page

WTF? Eye of the Mind (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) just deleted the main page. I've blocked the account indef until this gets figured out. KnowledgeOfSelf | talk 05:11, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

The oddest part is that the contributions show no evidence of going rogue. The admin was doing normal admin stuff minutes before deleting the main page. Maybe someone just used the admin's computer while the admin was away. 128.227.1.239 (talk) 05:13, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

1. 05:10, 8 December 2007 RyanGerbil10 (Talk | contribs | block) restored "Main Page" ‎ (3,957 revisions restored: undo deleteion)
2. 05:08, 8 December 2007 Eye of the Mind (Talk | contribs | block) deleted "Main Page" ‎ (Because I'm Evil) (Restore)

We need to get an emergency desysop right away. RyanGerbil10(Говорить!) 05:14, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Titoxd 05:16, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Whoo Shanel moved quickly on that one! KnowledgeOfSelf | talk 05:17, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

The comment was "Because I'm Evil". Account compromised? No edits since October, then several today, including an indef-block. Was the indef-block warranted? --Tom (talk - email) 05:15, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Whether indefinite (i.e. undefined length of time) or a few hours, blocking just means that the user needs to unblock himself first. El_C 05:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I think Tom meant the block that Eye of the Mind did just prior to deleting the main page, not the block of his account itself. KnowledgeOfSelf | talk 05:25, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Knowledge, I meant that Eye of Mind indef-blocked someone who was supposedly a sockpuppet today. Of course an indef block for Eye of Mind (at least for the moment) is appropriate, but was the action Eye of Mind took warranted? --Tom (talk - email) 05:28, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

And let's remember to do this too next time it happens... Titoxd 05:20, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

The Main Page itself is cascade protected by a number of other pages, fortunately, so that would not be a problem. Gracenotes § 05:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Previously The Random Editor (talk · contribs) (sysopping). Somehow, I doubt being evil was the most proximate cause of the deletion. :| Gracenotes § 05:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Indef block was justified - extreme and unusual circumstance. The block will no doubt be reviewed once we figure out what exactly happened. Manning (talk) 05:22, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Out of interest, why doesn't the deletion show up here? (I'm not challenging whether it happened, as it's clear from Eye of the Mind's log; I'm just wondering if I'm somehow misusing Special:Log.) — xDanielx /_C\ 05:57, 8 December 2007 (UTC) Silly me, didn't notice that "Page" was capitalized. — xDanielx /_C\ 05:59, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, this admin account was created in Oct '07 so they're obviously a previous sysop who's returned and reclaimed their bit. But who, and why did they just do what they did??? - Alison 06:02, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Alison, look up a bit to Gracenotes' comment. This is formerly User:The Random Editor. Metros (talk) 06:04, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Ah, okay. I just looked at their deleted userpage history and found them. Note that a sock 'outted' them a few days back - Alison 06:06, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

"No edits since October..." If that's true, then there's no way that the session would still be active in Mediawiki. Therefore, the second he logged back in, he could have been keylogged; so, a mere minutes later, the attacker would have received notification of the password, used it, and, well, the rest is history. :\ --slakr 08:08, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

We should have a checkuser look at this, just to be sure. Maser 08:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

dmcdevit confirms the account was not compromised. Maser 08:37, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

(ec) I checked first thing and no, it's not compromised - Alison 08:40, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

So it's just a way to enforce retirement from WP:( MaxSem 08:53, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Maybe... Maser 08:55, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Although not entirely relevant to this thread, reading through here concerns me about the number of backdoor sysoppings that appear to be occurring. Whilst I completely agree that in some extraordinary circumstances it may be appropriate, and I don't know the events surrounding this particular one, the increased frequency that this is occurring is concerning, to me at least. Wherever possible, the community should be entitled to see the RfA of any admin and their edit history. To see a brand new account suddenly turn up with a sysop flag is far from ideal and should be avoided. Will (aka Wimt) 12:55, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I would be tempted to think, with no evidence to the contrary, that someone in Eye's house (perhaps a visitor) got their hands on the keys while it was left logged in. I guess we'll know within 24 hours what happened, there's no reason not to assume good faith in this case especially given the actions taken just minutes before consistent with a reliable sysop doing their job, but the indef-block until info is forthcoming and the emergency desysopping are indeed warranted to prevent any further disruption. Orderinchaos 14:32, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

(ec)I agree. TRE was a good editor. A good man. He retired about a week or so after gaining the admin bit. He created the new account a few days later. If it wasn't a friend being "funny" while TRE took a bathroom break or something, the forced retirement seems like a logical explanation. If it's the latter, I doubt we'll ever know for sure. Lara_Love 18:01, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I concurr. If a user makes a fresh start under a new username, then they should make it less obvious by not getting their sysop powers back right away, and instead act as a regular user for a while. This was an account that was sysopped too quickly. Oh, by the way, has anybody asked him why he did it? Maser 17:56, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I received an email from Eye of the Mind, with an explanation to what happened. I am assuming good faith, and unblocked the account. The main reason being that the account currently does not have admin privs, and any potential abuse would be minimal. - KnowledgeOfSelf | talk 05:07, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Excellent, the problem is resolved! Here's to AGF. :D Maser 06:18, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm terribly sorry about the incident. I believe honestly though I should leave the wiki permanently. This kind of issue is too potentially destructive to the wiki. Thank you all for your time here. -Eye of the minD 17:17, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Now, that's not necessary. We all have a bad day. Titoxd 05:20, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Keepscases speaks

I am sorry my contributions have led to such a discussion here. Now that my block has expired, I'd like to say my piece.

I *still* feel that my block was unfounded. I believe that those who have blocked me, or have supported my block, cannot possibly be assuming good faith.

Just to make sure everything is clear, I'll post my "offending" text here in its entirety.

Starts now: You may be interested to know

I think Sarah is a lovely name, and you should be proud that you own it on Misplaced Pages. That said, I have dated four Sarah's. The first one broke up with me because she was a lesbian. The second one broke up with me to become a stripper. The third one broke up with me because, after a long night of drinking, I left the toilet seat up!! She kicked me out of her house and made me drive home drunk, for that! The fourth one, I don't honestly have anything bad to say about, but after one date she did decide she didn't want to see me any more.

I just felt compelled to tell you all that.

That is what I left for Sarah.

I have been accused of "sexual harassment". This disturbs me. Exactly what is considered "harassment"? Certainly, leaving numerous messages for someone could be construed as "harassment"...but I left exactly one. Certainly, messages including graphic or personal content could be...but mine contained no such thing. I have had an interesting history dating Sarah's, and I thought this user might be interested to hear about it. That's it. I would be very interested to hear how exactly my comment could be construed as "sexual harassment". My personal opinion is that the user who blocked me was way too eager to find a reason to do such a thing...and there are apparently numerous similar issues in his past. ANYWAY, the point is, I have never, nor will ever, have any desire nor intention to harass someone.

All that said, I truly have no desire to be blocked from Misplaced Pages. I find Misplaced Pages to be an invaluable resource, and an analysis of my edits will show I've never done anything to this encyclopedia that wasn't in good faith.

Despite the fact that there are many editors (who have contacted me privately, or have publically stated they enjoy what I do) who appreciate me...as I've said, I have no desire for another block. So, I'd just ask that you really try to Assume Good Faith...and if you can't, please let me know, hopefully we can work it out without any more drama. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Keepscases (talk • contribs) 06:51, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I think the matter can be summed up fairly succinctly; your personal life has zero consideration regarding your editing the encyclopedia. Your real life interactions with people with the name Sarah is uninteresting in the context of contributing except that it provides an indication why you have directed your interest toward an editor who uses that name. It would be best if you don't (and hadn't) allowed your personal experiences dictate how you contribute. I strongly suggest that you put this incident behind you, not interact with editors based on similarity to people from your own life, and not seek to explain your actions in the context of your own experiences - It is not relevant . Please note that AGF works both ways, so please believe me when I say that it is your actions that were the problem and not the reaction. LessHeard vanU (talk) 10:10, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Ummm... I just hope nobody calls me a sexual harasser when I give out 8 of March carnations to female editors.... Zocky | picture popups 10:32, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Your block was only partially about Sarah. It was also about the unfunny comments you added to RfA which were sexually harrasing. While I would not have blocked you for the Sarah comments alone, coupled with those at RfA you were asking for trouble. Heed LessHeard vanU's comments seriously. - JodyB _talk 14:04, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

LessHeard vanU's comments explained nothing about "sexual harassment," and I find it difficult to believe that a single comment that some feel to be "uninteresting" or "irrelevant" is grounds for a block.

I'll acknowledge that a couple of my RfA comments have been viewed as inappropriate, and for that I have served my time. But the "sexual harassment" label is still extreme and undeserved. I assure you, if I wanted to harass people on Misplaced Pages, which I don't, I could certainly do it more effectively than asking a user named "Keith D" if he plans on editing Misplaced Pages in the nude. Keepscases (talk) 17:05, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I will explain the sexual aspect of the situation - you noted that you had "dated" four females who had the name Sarah, two of whom you comment on in a manner indicative of a sexual identity. I have no desire to know what you mean by "dating" as far as romantic activity is concerned - and the recipient would also not know that either - but at least one individual is indicated as having been in a relationship with you. Therein is the sexual implication of your unsolicited post.

Unsolicited posts to anothers talkpage regarding the correspondees personal life is considered a poor idea, especially if there has no prior interaction between the parties. I think the only policy I can point toward is WP:NOT#... a social networking... site, which is more directed at consenting parties, but it is indicative of a general disapproval of excessive personal detail being used in communications. Is it harassment? Well, substitute Sarah with "Jew/Black/Bleeding Heart Liberal" and imagine the offense that may be felt by any editor who self identifies with the first two labels (obviously, the Bleeding Heart Liberal is bound to believe that you are perfectly within your rights to express yourself as you wish in whatever medium you choose - but then we are a bunch of pinko woosies...) if they were to receive an email regarding your past experiences of other members of that minority. Hmmm? I hope you can see that your approaches, no matter how innocent in intent, may be the cause of discomfort to another member of the community - and that is the bottom line.

I hope I have clarified my earlier comments. LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:17, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

You've clarified your comments, but while I'll admit to a few of my own comments perhaps being "inappropriate", I will not, and will never, acknowledge *anything* resembling "sexual harassment". I mean, if I were to tell someone here that "I am the father of two wonderful children," that has "sexual implication" as well. It's just not fair to stretch things that far. Keepscases (talk) 19:00, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Keepscases, imagine that you were being interviewed for a new job or perhaps a promotion, and then after several ordinary questions, you were suddenly asked "Do you find these women nice to look at?". This is very much like what you did on an RfA, where you asked the candidate (quoted verbatim) "Do you find these men nice to look at?". This wasn't a matter of asking the candidate if she would verify an external source. In this context, the question was completely inappropriate, and yes, even sexually harassing. Keep in mind that because you're asking the question on the RfA, you're putting pressure on the candidate to react, either by choosing to answer the question in some way or to ignore it. Your question introduced an element of sexuality that doesn't belong in an RfA. Inappropriate sexual content + pressure on the candidate = sexual harassment. --Kyoko 19:45, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I think this is the nub of the problem; you do not consider what you said - skimping over your sexual relationship history (and there is no other history given) with persons named Sarah, to a user named Sarah - as being sexual harassment, but the community considers that it may be so. It ain't about you, it's about the community and what is considered acceptable practice. If you and the community agree to differ then fine, but if you want to continue to act as you have previously because of your perceptions of your actions then you may have to consider that this community is not the place to do it. Really. Misplaced Pages welcomes and wants anything you can offer us in the way of article contributions, improvements to the running of the site, and all those mundane tasks that help build the encyclopedia, but we don't wish to have editors writing (unbidden) on the talkpages of other contributors in a manner that may be considered worrisome or inappropriately. While this is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit, this isn't the website that invites people to leave possibly disturbing comments on other contributors pages. To use your own example, no, I wouldn't consider placing the message of me being the father of two wonderful children (which happens to be true) on some stangers talkpage, because it may be inappropriate. Is it an example of sexual harassment? It could be considered so if the individual is gay. I don't do it (and I doubt if I could see any instance where it might be germane to some (psuedo)anonymous editor) and I suggest you don't either. Please, just edit the encyclopedia and only exchange familiar posts with people with whom you have first established a (cyber) relationship. LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:36, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

A question: Keepscases, would you consider asking a bank clerk such a question when you were paying in cash at the bank? If a delivery person turned up at your front door asking for your signature for a package, would you ask them? If the checkout staff at your local supermarket had a badge with the name "Sarah" would you apropos of nothing tell them your "Sarahs I have known" story? You seem to think such behaviour is appropriate, so if not, why not? Tonywalton  20:17, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

And for $DEITY's sake, no more dating lesbians and leaving the toilet seat up. Dating Strippers is okay though! --WebHamster 14:11, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

PS: I'm all for the toaster idea. --WebHamster 14:12, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

So am I allowed to respond to User:WebHamster with information about my personal life? I'm not being argumentative; this is a sincere question. I have a very hard time believing that personal information/thoughts on non-encyclopedia pages are grounds for blocking. Keepscases (talk) 17:14, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Keepscases: imagine how you would feel if someone left the paragraph that you wrote on Sarah's page, only with your real name instead of Sarah's. At the very least, I believe that you would have an odd impression of the writer, and you would wonder what the person's intentions were.

I looked at your comments on the RfAs, and I agree that they shouldn't have been made. There was another RfA in which you asked the candidate "if she found these men nice to look at". That question has nothing whatsoever to do with a person's suitability to be an admin. It's an inappropriate question, and could be considered sexual harassment. Even if you don't mean any harm, if other people are telling you that your behaviour is inappropriate, you should heed their words and stop. --Kyoko 17:55, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree regarding whether my question had anything to do with the user's suitability to be an admin. She declined to look at a non-Misplaced Pages website? I don't believe users unwilling to check outside sources should be made administrators. I will take more care in what I contribute in the future, but "sexual harassment" is really not a term that should be thrown around lightly. Keepscases (talk) 18:08, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

How's "just plain creepy and wrong" sound? Because that's the first phrase that pops into my head when I read your comments - Alison 18:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Seconded - your RFA questions are either inappropriate or just downright creepy as mentioned above. --Fredrick day (talk) 18:29, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I have already promised to take more care with my contributions from now on. That is all I can do. I am truly sorry if my questions and comments were interpreted negatively by some, but I still maintain that I meant no harm, and that an indefinite block was undeserved. Keepscases (talk) 18:33, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

FYI an "indefinite" block is entirely the appropriate response to problems regarding an editors behaviour - it can be lifted immediately the problem is resolved, be it minutes, days, months or never. It is not possible for a blocking admin to say that the behaviour in question will cease after 24 hours or 1 week and set a tariff accordingly. Blocks are preventative, and the indef block is often the best prevention possible because it relies on the blockee being the major part of the solution. LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

User:Sohailsyte and User:Sohailstyle

User:Sohailsyte (ends with "syte") has a short history of contributions. Much of his activity has consisted of leaving (and replacing) insulting and threatening messages to myself and one other user. , , , , .

In these messages, Sohailsyte "manually" signs them as "User:Sohailstyle" (ends with "style"). Hence the responses to Sohailsyte (yte) have gone to Sohailstyle (yle)'s talk page. I'm not sure if these two users are the same person, though it appears they are, and I have no idea what the point of this misdirection is.

One certain fact is that User:Sohailsyte's contributions to Misplaced Pages consist mainly of leaving threatening, insulting and entirely unprovoked messages on user's talk pages.

RedSpruce (talk) 14:58, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

lost password?ThuranX (talk) 15:04, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

No, I think that User:Sohailsyte is a hoax, as evidenced by User:Sohailstyle's later question to Zora . The threatening comments by the probable hoaxer seem quite out of character. Mathsci (talk) 19:12, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Hoax or not, this looks like a clear violation of WP:UN#Inappropriate_usernames as it is a Confusing username mak it unduly difficult to identify users by their username. The fact that the two userpages at Sohailsyte and Sohailstyle doesn't help either and may not be coincidence; I think syte is a straight copy of style. At the very least that list of "articles started" on syte is a complete hoax (unless Special:Contributions/Sohailsyte has gone haywire). In fact the edit history of Sohailsyte is interesting - they started with a copy of User:Sohailstyle's talkpage by mistake. Tonywalton  21:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Looks like clear impersonation. I've notified -syte of this thread, to allow them a chance to explain. —Random832 02:39, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

User:Sohailsyte blocked for impersonation. Any forthcoming explanation will be found on the user's talk page; that is, assuming any explanation is forthcoming. —Kurykh 22:45, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

User:Taric25

Taric25 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is engaged in some content disputes, and not getting his way. As a result he filed the vexations and frivolous Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/TTN, which I deleted. He took it to deletion review: Misplaced Pages:Deletion review/Log/2007 December 7#Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets.2FTTN. In this debate Eusebeus said: Endorse deletion I have posted a warning to the user's talk page over his adolescent use of a sockpuppet allegation when he didn't get his way in a content dispute. I also suggest that the user be issued a block as censure for this kind of behaviour. It is completely unacceptable. Needless to say, Taric25 immediately filed Misplaced Pages:Wikiquette alerts#User:Eusebeus.

How long do we put up with this querulousness? I believe Tarc25 needs to stop spitting in the soup as a matter of some urgency. Guy (Help!) 16:00, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

A lot of like this seems to stem from your irregular and upsetting deletion of the sockpuppet page, which is being overturned at DRV. Taric25 might be being a pest with the Wikiquette alert (I was surprised that page even exists) but it's not as clear cut as Guy is painting it. The deletion of a report apparently made in good faith would irritate anyone. --W.marsh 16:15, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I think you'll find that if you look into it the creation of the sockpuppet page was itself another example of the self-same querulousness. The user seems absolutely determined to escalate every possible point of conflict. This goes back well before the creation of the sockpuppet page; deletion of a vexatious sockpuppet page is only upsetting if you're determined to be upset. Let's say I were to create a sockpuppet page on you and some randomly selected editor who agrees with you - should that be left lying around forever? I'd say not, in the same way we delete uncertified RfCs. Guy (Help!) 10:06, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

User:Beh-nam

That user is making a plea to lift the ban under which he is. I am not willing or able to mentor him, but I thought he might find someone willing to take him under his wing here. I am not making a judgment about how sincere his act of contrition might be, simply forwarding the request. — Coren  17:25, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, he's had a ton of chances. We can give him one more chance, but if that fails, how many more are we willing to give? Maser 17:48, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

WHy is it always 'Just one more' for some editors? let him find a new hobby. ThuranX (talk) 18:07, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Looking at his blocklog, the user should stay banned. If you unblock him, he'll just be a nuisance and go on the rampage again. Just keep him block. He never changed when he was unblocked before - I sincerely doubt he'll change now. Keep banned. Davnel03 18:53, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Endorse ban. He's been a long problem editor. — Rlevse • Talk • 19:58, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Looking at the BL, I see no reason why he'd be interested in being a model editor. Endorse ban. -Jéské 21:30, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Comment: Most of my blocks are because I was reverting vandalism but it was seen as edit warring and I got blocked for it. Either that or, I was pointing out sockpuppets of user: NisarKand and the admins saw that as harrassment and banned me for it. Even though I turned out to be right, I am very interested in being a model editor. My edits are on Afghanistan related articles and I am committed to improving them. I am committed to be a model editor but I everyone makes mistakes. If unbanned, I will avoid doing too many reverst even if I feel it is vandlism I'm reverting, I will not point out socks of other users incase it's harrasment, and finally (this is what I was banned for) I will not listen to advice or directions from users that have been banned (proxying). The last violation I wasn't even aware there was such violation. So I think I should be given a chance to prove that I have learned from my mistakes. What I'm being banned for is just 1 violation that I can easily not repeat again. And the rest, I've stated what I will do to avoid them. Trust me, I am interested in being a model editor and contributing to what I can. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.219.106 (talk) 16:06, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Comment: 3 of my recent blocks were mistaken and appologized for by the admins later on. Just ask User_talk:Rlevse about it. Two of my blocks are from him and he ended up being wrong about them in the end and apologized for them. So when considering my block log, please ignore 3 of them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.219.106 (talk) 15:19, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Daniel Case undiscussed unblocks

Moved topic over 50k to Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents/Daniel Case. Davnel03

I guess undiscussed, unilateral acts are the new way to go. El_C 11:29, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Also, can you do something about your sig, it is extremely distracting. El_C 11:30, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

El_C, I haven't been following the conversation, but I dunno if he meant anything by it. Honestly, I was about to do the same thing, because this page is already huge, and it was slowing my browser down :P Anyway, cheers. :) --slakr 11:34, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

No, I wasn't implying he was doing anything more than very brightly {{resolving}} yet another ANI thread, but 50k isn't that much and usually folks ask if they should move threads to ANsub-pages. Dosen't matter. Out of sight is good, I suppose. El_C 11:37, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Quote from the top of the page: When moving very long threads to a subpage, add a link to the subpage and sign without a timestamp: "Davnel03"; this prevents premature archiving.. That's why I did it. The discussion was getting quite long, so I think it would be for the best if it was moved to a subpage. Cheers, Davnel03 11:38, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Again, 50K is not very long by the standards of this board, but whatever. It probably outlived its usefulness, anyway. El_C 11:44, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Added an {{Unresolved}} to further emphasize the point. Cheers =) --slakr 11:48, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the split. Its a lot easier to watch now, this page is very active and its hard to find points of interest.--Alexia Death the Grey (talk) 12:44, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Davnel03 page move is a great strategy to stop arguing on WP:ANI. It does lessen dreaded "wikidrama". But on the other hand, I am concerned that moving active arguments maybe an effective way to quiet dissent and pardon bad behavior. T (talk) 20:56, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I understand your concern. Splitting a topic to a new page does reduce its visibility on one hand. On the other, however, it makes it easier to address new problems as they arise while allowing the editors interested in the topic to follow the discussion more easily. If too many edits are occurring on this page due to that one particular topic, edit conflicts pose a practicality concern for dealing with and resolving the rest of the problems already listed or attempting to be listed on this page. Couple that with a constantly long page to begin with, it becomes a serious issue of accessibility. --slakr 08:44, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Doublechecking

I just became an administrator and blocked an editor for the first time. I blocked User:DozClayStaues indefinitely as a vandalism-only account. I just wanted some confirmation that I did it correctly. Thanks for any feedback. Useight (talk) 18:40, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Looks good, but don't forget to sign your name when leaving "You're Blocked!" messages. Sean William @ 18:44, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Yep, looks OK. Can't see any major problems, apart from the comment above. Davnel03 18:45, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I added my sig. Useight (talk) 18:46, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Looks fine to me. Well done! Just on the sig thing; with certain block templates, such as that one, you can simply add a ''|sig=~~~~'' into the template and it will appear nicely within the frame :) - Alison 18:52, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Hey, thanks, it does look better that way. Useight (talk) 19:04, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually, to activate the auto-signing feature in any of the {{uw-block}} series, the parser is looking for "|sig=<any text>" at the end of the template. I suspect that most admins use "|sig=y" or something similar. --Kralizec! (talk) 19:52, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

There are dummy pages and users for you to practise on if you like at Misplaced Pages:New admin school. Splash - tk 19:35, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

New Admin School is a great idea. I wish that had existed when I needed practice. Natalie (talk) 15:02, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

User:Orangina2

The user Orangina2 has disrupted the Misplaced Pages football project over a long period of time. The very minor nature of his edits (he generally only edits infoboxes) is probably the only reason he hasn't been blocked already. The Misplaced Pages Football Project Player Manual of Style is the agreed Wikiproject Football standard for football player infoboxes, yet this user continues to actively apply his own style (here for example), despite numerous warnings on his talk page, most of which he has failed to respond to. If the user disagrees with the standard, that is fine, he is welcome to discuss it, but he has failed to do so. However given the user's disruptive edits and his lack of response, I don't know what other choice I have other than to request a block. He doesn't seem to be a vandal as such, just someone who wants to "do his own thing" and not communicate, collaborate or adhere to any kind of consensus. Thanks. --Jameboy (talk) 19:15, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

(1 edit conflict) He should be blocked indefinitely. Despite the amount of warnings on his talkpage (probably over 50), he seems to not be corresponding with any of WP:FOOTBALL's policy's. In my view he should be blocked indefinitely as he seems to be doing what he wants with the templates, when he wants. Davnel03 19:36, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

He now seems to be communicating on his talk page, but I'm not sure if this is because he fears a block? Not sure whether he should be given a further grace period. --Jameboy (talk) 19:58, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Blocked indef because of the above and because the username violates Wiki policy. Davnel03 11:20, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

User:RaulTheFool -- Personal attack and general trolling

User:RaulTheFool (contributions) is an account with only 3 contributions to date, all comments at Talk:Ann Coulter and all made in the past couple days. The problems of with those posts, of general trollery and of personal attack, are self-evident from them; "RaulTheFool" seems to be a trolling-only account (perhaps another round from "Big Daddy"). Besides fitting action against the account, I suggest the deletion of the talk-page section, whereas it holds much flame-bait but nothing useful toward the editing of the article.
-- Lonewolf BC (talk) 20:10, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

P.S. Please act soon on that section-deletion; incivility carries on, on both sides. I'm tempted to do it myself, but I think it had better be done by an admin, else it will only feed the flames. -- Lonewolf BC (talk) 20:23, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Don't play his game. The best way to get people to stop trolling and act civil is to simply ask them to suggest a new version of the content they object to. --Haemo (talk) 20:43, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, don't feed. The contrib's to this point do not rise to the level of block; it's someone on a soapbox, but there is no clear disruption. I wouldn't even ask for a suggested version. Ignore it and let the thread die. If the editor moves to article space disruptively, post here again or contact an admin directly. Marskell (talk) 20:48, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Ignore the user, and agree not blockable yet. — Rlevse • Talk • 22:58, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Menticor (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Can an admin block this indefinitely as a sockpuppet of either:

• Mike Garcia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), or;
• Encyclopedist (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

It's evident that this user is a sock of someone, given the user's relative expertise. It's either Mike, who he seems to be defending, or Encyclopedist, who embarked on a stalking campaign of Phaedriel several months ago (and has edited both Phaedriel and Kyoko's talkpages). At any rate, the user just seems to be stirring up the pot. Will 22:16, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Blocked a week already by another admin, would support longer if it continues. Can you narrow down which user is the puppetmaster? — Rlevse • Talk • 23:02, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I knew about the one week block already. I'm not sure who the puppetmaster is, but it's evident it is a banned user. Will 23:04, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

It's Johnny the Vandal, doing his usual. One glance at the edit history is enough. Blocked indef, as well as his other socks - Alison 08:15, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Somebody close my account.

Last time I tried to help, I was an obvious liar and a jerk who wastes time. If that's the case, fine. Someone close this account. I tried to help on this website, honestly, but if "POV Pushers" like me, even though it isn't my intention it dosent matter because then I'm WikiLawyering, be "fought off" and banned, then fine. I contribute and get nothing but why I'm a terrible editor. I should expect to be called on when I push a POV and then WikiLawyer and say "I didn't mean to".

Someone should actually enforce WP:BLOCK and disable this account. — Selmo 23:00, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Walk away from the keyboard. Stop using the account. It's that easy. Tonywalton  23:01, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

If that really how you feel you may want to read meta:right to vanish, however I would hope you would think it over.▪◦▪≡ЅiREX≡ 23:10, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Colour me confused. I show this is the first edit Selmo has made in 93 days. Is this regarding a new issue, or is it left over angst from the dispute with Arthur Rubin (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)? --Kralizec! (talk) 00:28, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Selmo, you can also scramble your password. If you don't have email enabled scrambling your password would be pretty permanent. Natalie (talk) 15:05, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Blue5864

This user is making legal threats after being previously blocked (diff) for legal threats Alexfusco5 01:45, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Blocked by me. RyanGerbil10(Говорить!) 02:01, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I blocked the user last night for legal threats and unblocked him today following his retraction. El_C 02:15, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

A sockpuppetry case has been filed against this user, so even though he has retracted his newest legal threat I am uncomfortable unblocking at this time. However, because it is often standard practice to allow those accused of sockpuppetry to provide evidence in their defense, I am submitting this for review by other administrators. I will be busy for the rest of the night so it is not necessary to contact me before unblocking if that is what seems most prudent. RyanGerbil10(Говорить!) 02:40, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Keep blocked. He's now invoking Jimbo in his threats. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 03:14, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Agree with CBW. Keep blocked. He makes threat after threat, and then denies making them. Assuming that Blue = Darrin McGillis, as he has claimed, not only is he editing with a conflict of interest (posting tabloid charges which he keeps on his own website), but you all need to read this; read it all. Do we want this person editing here? Antandrus (talk) 05:19, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Given the way the editor has handled himself so far, no. I have found people with an axe to grind in the real world rarely do well as editors. Has done nothing but POV push and Wikilawyer so far. Maybe in a month or so if he gets the idea that Misplaced Pages is NOT a soapbox, then he can come back. The Evil Spartan (talk) 06:15, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I've blanked and protected his talk page to prevent further legal threats. MaxSem 07:14, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

User:Appletrees

Appletrees has asked that I mention his situation here. It looks like he was blocked by User:Future Perfect at Sunrise (who then immediately went offline) for "edit-warring on Liancourt Rocks". It looks to me that he reverted twice and made a few comments on the talk page. Apparently the article is subject to many editwars, as there are special rules written on top of the talk page. I don't think Appletrees should be blocked since he didn't violate 3RR. His comments on the talk page weren't the nicest, but I don't know if they're blockworthy. I've been an admin for less than 24 hours and I definitely don't want to just wheel war and unblock him. I'm mentioning this here as per Appletrees' request and to get another opinion on the matter. Useight (talk) 02:22, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Leave blocked. Appletrees is a frequent Japan/Korea edit warrior and knows full well that the slightest impropriety on his part will get him blocked. As a new admin, I commend you on having the sense to ask before acting, something I think is lacking in the sysop corps. Good judgement. RyanGerbil10(Говорить!) 03:45, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Hello, sorry for not responding earlier, it was late last night and I missed Appletree's unblock request before I went to bed. I've responded on his talk page . No objections if somebody else wants to review the block, but from my side, at this point, I'd let it stand. Note that there is a special zero-tolerance edit warring policy which I've been trying to keep enforced on the article in question (with the consent of some other admins and what I take to be silent assent by the Arbcom). Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:02, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

User:Jtrainor

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Is this an attack page? Corvus cornix_talk 04:19, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Hmm deja vu. I seem to remember this coming up on here before, although i've no idea when, and looking at his/her talk its come up on there a couple of times, and since at least one ANI discusion that i can remember, plus those on his talk page, its unlikely he's gonna change it. As for whether of not i could be construed as an attack, that quite difficult. Perhaps if User:MER-C and User:A Man In Black could be asked if they find it offensive--Jac16888 (talk) 04:36, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

(ec)"Category:FYAD" does not strike me as something that's appropriate for a userpage. sh¤y 04:37, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

What's FYAD? Corvus cornix_talk 05:16, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

? Someguy1221 (talk) 05:24, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

According to Urban dictionary it's either stands for Fuck You And Die, or it's a cool place to hang out, either way, neither is a personal attack. However, saying that certain editors, and administators no less, should not be able to use the edit button, is commenting on the contributor and not the content. Whether or not it's a personal attack, ignore that fact, it is a clear intent to draw attention to himself that he dislikes those editors and thats not what the userpage is supposed to be used for. I'm removing it. — Save_Us_229 05:30, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Did this need to be an ANI thread? Afterall, this is not the wikipedia complaints department. Kyaa the Catlord (talk) 05:45, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

This is a fairly normal concern to bring to AN/I. — Save_Us_229 05:48, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Just because its commonly done does not make it the proper venue. Kyaa the Catlord (talk) 06:11, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Name a better venue. — Save_Us_229 06:14, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I know how this goes. The user will revert the page, and people will stand around and do exactly nothing about it. Oddly, we've tried taking this to MFD before, and been told that wasn't the right venue either. With all due respect, sometimes our bureaucracy here makes former communist nations look like well-oiled machines of government. If it's inappropriate, remove it, and if he revert wars, as he's done, bring it here to see the user blocked. The Evil Spartan (talk) 06:21, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

For a case of incivility? WP:WQA. Or perhaps reopen the discussion on the user's talk page. It seems the former discussion of this went stale there and noone bothered to discuss this with him again before trying to escalate this into an "incident". I can't see a reason to claim this as an incident that needs admin intervention until the user does something needing intervention, ie. edit wars over the removal. Dispute resolution IS a good thing, we should try it before bring people to "court". Kyaa the Catlord (talk) 06:33, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

FYAD is a forum on the Somethingawful forums, and with regards to the two users listed, I have stated that if they complain (they havn't), they'll be removed. There, problem resolved. How about you go fix up something that's actually a problem now instead of harrassing me? And you are quite correct that I will revert any specious edits to my user page. Jtrainor (talk) 07:21, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

As expected

Jtrainor decided to travel down the road of revert land and reinsert the personal attacks only for User:Betacommand2 (Betacommand's vandalism reverting account) to remove the personal attacks again Will someone please speak to Jtrainor about why the personal attacks are inappropriate? He seems to think that because he says the users haven't complained about it yet that personal attacks can stay and that removing the personal attacks is vandalism. — Save_Us_229 20:37, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Did you even read what I typed above? Jtrainor (talk) 20:51, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Did you even read this, this or this? Your userspace is not a place to post scrutiny on other editors making personal attacks, period. It doesn't matter whether they love it or hate it. Personal attacks are not something that the userspace is intended use is for. — Save_Us_229 20:54, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

It is not a personal attack, but an opinion. Anyways, I posted to those two users' talk pages asking if they care to give a specific yes/no answer instead of an implied one. Should they say they don't care, it stays. In the meantime I have requested protection of my user page to prevent vandalism. Jtrainor (talk) 20:57, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

... which I have declined. I see no vandalism here, nor does WP:PROT cover this - Alison 21:01, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

And you were also advised to read WP:NPA and WP:UP. I suggest you do that because you don't seem to understand. It don't matter what they say or word it, they are personal attacks as you are commenting on the contributors and not the content, and that is not allowed, period. Do you understand? — Save_Us_229 21:03, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to give notice here that I will continue to revert my page within the limits of 3RR until I hear back from AMIB and MER-C, at which time the page will be updated accordingly. I view your edits of my user page as vandalism and violation of WP:POINT and WP:CIVIL. The fact that you have ignored everything I've even said here also shows that you've clearly made up your mind about this. Jtrainor (talk) 21:04, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Somehow I wouldn't see you being unblocked if someone were to report you for 3RR on your own userpage. There are several editors who have told you that the material is inappropriate. The administrator above said it was not vandalism and good-faith contributions cannot be treated as vandalism, so your point is moot. You claim to be upholding WP:CIVIL, yet you violate it along with assume good faith and no personal attacks and our userpage guidelines at the same time. If I were you I would wise up and not persist in engaging in a revert war with several editors placing contentious material on your userpage. — Save_Us_229 21:19, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

• Comment There is no 3RR as regards personal attacks. Personal attacks are not permitted, period (I realise that I am repeating what has already been written). If you disagree that they are personal attacks you are permitted to question and promote their validity, but they must first be removed. You have no "right" to post material that others have determined are personal attacks. Reposting such content may attract sanctions. I haven't seen the comments referred to, but felt I should warn you that you are possibly violating policy by retaining the content when asked not to. LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:47, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Save Us 229 is wikistalking jtrainor. I request admin intervention. Thank you. Kyaa the Catlord (talk) 01:33, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Looking at the contribution link and commenting where relevant isn't wikistalking. I suggest you never leave me a message like on my talk like that anymore. — Save_Us_229 08:34, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Or what? Are you threatening me, Save Us 229? Kyaa the Catlord (talk) 08:41, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Making a mere suggestion is all. — Save_Us_229 08:46, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

No, but following someone around and being an <personal attack removed> to them is. I too can call a spade a spade. Kyaa the Catlord (talk) 08:51, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

You haven't learned anything from this thread about personal attacks, have you? Calling a spade a spade doesn't mean you can make personal attacks. Now if you don't mind, this discussion is closed. — Save_Us_229 08:55, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm still waiting for you to refactor your threat, boy. Kyaa the Catlord (talk) 09:00, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Having heard back from AMIB and MER-C, that stuff will stay gone. The whole rest of you may feel free to fly away and bother someone else now.

It does not escape my notice that suddenly people are just happening to start harrassing me after I post an unpopular opinion on the village pump. Well, have fun watching me, because despite what some might say about me, I do actually like contributing here, when people arn't screwing around with me, at least. Jtrainor (talk) 06:18, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

User:Prester John on another delete rampage

Prester John (talk · contribs) has just been unblocked, and is immediately going through my history list deleting all content that I've added. Just over a week ago, he was at it (previous ANi report here). He received this admin warning, which was ignored. The deletions are happening right this minute. I am rushing to get some diffs together. Will post back again soon. Lester 05:50, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Note: the warning was given by Goodshoped35110s who is not an administrator. Ariel♥Gold 06:30, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Goodshoped35110s (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) was recently blocked for disruption, and he's claimed to have quit the project. - Jehochman 06:39, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

• 05:21, 9 December 2007. Article: John Brumby (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) Reverted my additions. Prester had never been to this article before his previous revert stalking attack last week.
• 05:16, 9 December 2007 Article: John Stone (Australian politician) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). Again, Prester John had never been to this old article until a few minutes after I added content there.
• 05:13, 9 December 2007. Article John Howard (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). He deleted content I'd recently added.
• 05:11, 9 December 2007. Article: Ian Sinclair (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). Reverted my content. Prester only arrived at this article a few minutes after I'd got there, having never been there before.Lester 06:05, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

First and only additions after a 72 hour block. I suggest a good long healthy block. Might suggest longer, but Lester doesn't have a history as a saint either. The Evil Spartan (talk) 06:08, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Hello 'Evil Sparten'. Yes, I got blocked in August for 3RR, and learned my lesson and have not repeated that. I believe Prsster John wants to hover over me deleting everything I add, hoping that I leave Misplaced Pages. If he had a content dispute, there are other ways Prester could have engaged the community. There were active discussions about the content in most of the above listed articles, which Prester did notjoin. This is just plain bullying.Lester 06:15, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

(ec) Prester John appears to be removing properly sourced information, and he seems to possibly be stalking Lester (talk · contribs). I recommend that somebody look at this closely and decide whether a block is warranted; I have left him a warning. - Jehochman 06:18, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

• Comment. Prester John is a prolific antagoniser. Repeated appeals from numerous users on many occasions have often seen him escape serious sanction by the skin his teeth (at times, on the back of shallow, quickly discarded promises to participate more responsibly next time). This latest behaviour is atrocious and, given his history, should be dealt with seriously. His toxic continuation of bad behaviour, which adds nothing to the goal of producing an encyclopedia, must be comprehensively curtailed. Escalating blocks had been previously initiated after heavily disruptive editing bouts. Suggested block level: 1 month. --Brendan 06:47, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I would have to say that after reviewing his recent contributions it appears he is deleting well sourced content, even when his edit summary indicates a simple wording change would have resolved his issue. It also appears that the majority of these revisions are material Lester has introduced. His one other significant edit was also a reversion, however, the edit was performed by an IP not Lester. It appears Prester John may have ongoing difficult understanding that reverts are not a proper way to build the encyclopedia. Since this disruption comes immediately after coming off a block for identical reasons, I support re-blocking with a longer expiration. I agree that a month seems reasonable. Shell 07:36, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Being a regular around the Australian noticeboard, I must confess there have been frequent complaints of varying merit flying in both directions between Prester John and Lester. Upon review of the four edits, it would indeed seem that this behaviour is pre-meditated and deliberate, and one could certainly infer some bad faith upon the part of Prester John given his recent MfD's which resulted in his 72-hour block. However, given my previous involvement (recently closing an MfD about Prester John and his userspace), my comments should be taken with a calcuated pinch of salt and I most certainly wouldn't consider using my administrator tools in the situation. I think the most important aspect to consider here is the possible parallels between Prester John's disruptive MfD nominations which resulted in the recent block (clearly endorsed by consensus) and these removals. Daniel 07:49, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

A month it is? Would someone just perform the block then? I agree whole-heartedly. The Evil Spartan (talk) 07:59, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Agree on a month block if an admin is willing to take that bold step and actually do it. This user is far too disruptive; to start stalking editors as soon as he returns from a previous block is just plain ridiculous. — Save_Us_229 08:42, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I did it. Subject to review. Grandmasterka 09:14, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

It should be noted that Lester does have a bit of a history of adding information and giving it undue prominance and putting a large amount of editorialising about it, and giving a reference that either does not support the pertinent information added, or doesn't have it at all. Rather than just blocking Prester John, Lester's edits should be more carefully analysed (which I am doing at the moment), as when you look at them, they often don't stack up (as is happening now as I go through his edits). Shot info (talk) 00:28, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Making accusations about the quality of other editors content has no place in the ANi. If you want to do that, there are places that you, or Prester John for that matter, could have taken it up for community discussion. It's not up to any single editor to stand over and follow another editor to delete content or follow them for harassment. It's not up to one editor to unilaterally block another editor by deleting or reverting. That's what this report was about. If you want to discuss the quality of content there are other places where that can be raised.Lester 01:04, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Editor's editing histories are available for all to see. I and other editors are free to point out here that perhaps the admin's block in this regard was excessive, not because that admin is necessarily incorrect but possibly did not take into account the undue weight and poorly sourced content that actually was added. After all, PJ is not incorrect with his edits, his only crime really was not discussing them initially on a talk page. Shot info (talk) 01:23, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Support this block - it's overdue. Prester has a long history of incivility, revert warring, introducing POV or removing material critical of the Liberal Party of Australia, and goading others (especially Marxists and Muslims, for some odd reason) on his user page. His edits at Australian federal election, 2007 over a 24-hour period a month ago demonstrate his typical approach. The Miltopia case last month represented a shift from the very top in how Misplaced Pages treats and regards long-term problem editors whose actions do not benefit the project and waste hours of productive editors' time, and I don't see why this situation should be any different. (Re Lester: in my observation he is a well-meaning, good-faith editor who at times has adopted unhelpful positions, although he was always far from being the worst offender of those of an opposite POV to Prester, and has demonstrated recently that he is learning from earlier mistakes) Orderinchaos 06:47, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Support block. I don't know anything about Lester's history, but he can pay for sins separately. It has no bearing on the need to rein in Prester John's ongoing disruption. Raymond Arritt (talk) 06:52, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Arbcom election drama

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Just a mistake really. Can't we just drop it? R. Baley (talk) 09:01, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Surprise! Does this happen every year, I wonder? Removing someone who makes a lot of contributions to an arbcom alection as WP:POINT seems fairly commensense, yet quite political. Yet we have a user who opposed every single arbcom member with the statement Oppose - The arbcom is evil, so any candidate who chooses to participate in it in any manner shows poor judgment. Sounds like making a point. Wonder if it should be removed. The Evil Spartan (talk) 06:05, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I would say a better idea would be to ignore it until the vote is closed - maybe consider blocking him if he gets too disruptive, but otherwise ingonre him. Od Mishehu 06:40, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Users can vote for or against candidates for whatever reason they want to. I voted support for endlessdan cause he cracked me up. Does that make me disruptive? As long as this user isn't spamming the voting, which it doesn't appear he is, and I would think that he's rather harmless. Kyaa the Catlord (talk) 06:44, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I'd keep and add a comment afterwards saying that he has commented the same way everywhere if it is unclear. On second thought, let everyone see his "arbcom is evil" comment and decide what they want. Leave it there; the last thing I'd want to do is encourage accusations of censorship and martyrdom from him. He'll probably get bored enough when nobody responds to him. Oh, and he's an admin BTW (a little odd to me). -- Ricky81682 (talk) 06:43, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Wow, I didn't realize my expressing my opinion of the ArbCom warranted a section on the Admin notice board. I've been an active participant to this project for a long time. Much longer than anyone who has chosen to stick their noses in my votes here or on my talk page. I just did some looking at contribution histories, and I'd been an admin for years before any of these accounts had their first edits. I believe none of these contributors remember how this project operated before the ArbCom. I do. In my opinion, life before the ArbCom was MUCH better than it has become since. That is one of the reasons why I think anyone who would want to be associated with that body lacks enough judgment to serve as an arbitrator over my actions. I really don't want to discuss this anymore. I've voted. I'm not changing my votes. I have no intention of going off the cliff and deleting the main page anytime this week. And I don't think I'm above the law. I just think a better way to handle the issues that come before the committee can and should be found. Gentgeen (talk) 07:49, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

• Folks, this has zero effect on the outcome. Candidates who have massive support by the community will not be affected by this, and those who will be affected... well, let's say that they probably weren't going to be elected anyways. Titoxd 07:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

• In fact, it does; Mr. Wales considers the lot of candidates above 50%, and makes a value judgment for them. If someone is right on the line, this could make up a difference. And please, Gentgeen, I didn't have to stick my nose out very far when your vote was hanging off every page. The Evil Spartan (talk) 07:59, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
  • There's thirteen candidates currently with ≥ 50% support. There's only five slots available on the ArbCom. Barring an unprecedented expansion, it really is a non-issue. Titoxd 08:04, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Could someone archive/remove this thread already, using ANI to complain about votes is an inappropriate use of the board. R. Baley (talk) 08:43, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

The irony is that by complaining about #Arbcom election drama, User:The Evil Spartan is creating more drama.

I have a sad piece of news to report. I just found out, User:The Evil Spartan is no longer with us, God rest his soul.T (talk) 08:52, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, that's certainly not what I wanted to do... I just wanted to point out that this isn't that really that big of a deal. Titoxd 08:56, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Ummmmmmmmmm...are you saying you are a sock of User:The Evil Spartan? " Not that there is anything wrong with that" Per rules, socks are okay sometimes. I have had User:RWV, for example. Nevermind, I think I am confused.T (talk) 09:05, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Uh... if he said the same thing on every nomination page, isn't the effect completely negated, making this a non-issue even further? EVula // talk // ☯ // 08:58, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Pretty much, yes, barring the ultra-hypotheticals mentioned above. Which is why no-one has given a crap until now. Grandmasterka 09:04, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

User:Bruce1333 edit warring

First on the Antichrist article, which is all documented in the user's RfC; recently, he's been edit warring on said RfC. I reverted him three times, but he persists in disruptive behaviour. I feel there isn't anything else I can do, as all attempts to communicate with the user have been rejected. Hence, I think administrator intervention is necessary. Master of Puppets 06:30, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it does not look good, as far as civil and calm tone. El_C 11:39, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

IP socks of banned User:Mariam83 on rampage

Despite being banned months ago, Mariam83 (talk · contribs · count · logs · block log · lu · rfa · rfb · arb · rfc · lta · socks confirmedsuspected) has been on a rampage tonight. Using four different IP addresses (see below), this disgruntled editor made around 70 reverts to various articles. Initially most of the edits were reverting Mariam83's favourite articles back to their preferred versions, however after C.Fred (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) semi-protected those articles, Mariam83 started reverting random edits made by those editors who had reverted, reported, or blocked the various socks. The socks used tonight include the following (all four were blocked by different admins for 3 to 31 hours):

• 64.219.76.51 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
• 68.89.175.189 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
• 68.91.120.217 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
• 71.156.123.200 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

When dealing with Mariam83 socks, I normally just roll my eyes and go crazy on the 'undo' button. However, this time Mariam83 uncharacteristically left the following message on a talk page: "You cant block me, I'm unstoppable. You just try! I will make your wikipedian life a living hell BUDDY! he he he :-)" Unfortunately I fear that Mariam83 is correct about being unstoppable. To date there are approximately 106 suspected socks of this user. (See Category:Suspected Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of Mariam83 for the entire list.) The amount of time editors have spent reverting and blocking these 106 socks is probably quite breathtaking.

Is there anything we can do to stop or at least slow down this banned editor? --Kralizec! (talk) 08:26, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

In the time it took me to research and write the above, Mariam83 has another 29 52 reverts via 68.90.62.202 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log). --Kralizec! (talk) 08:35, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Another 21 reverts in sock attack number six from 68.89.189.234 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log). This has been a long night ... I think it is time for me to go to bed. --Kralizec! (talk) 09:17, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

It is getting quite out of control. The user has been IP-hopping all night, causing a large backup of reverts and protections to unravel. Jmlk17 09:47, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Do we know what service provider the user is using? I wonder if it would be appropriate to do a single 5, maybe 10-minute range block across all those IP addresses (just to make the point that no address on that system will work)? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 18:19, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes... I've already sent them a request to stop the abuse months ago but received no response. Instead, i only receive her harassing emails frequently under different email accounts. She could even create a gmail account w/ my full name. The easiest way to deal w/ this case is WP:RBI. Range block would not work since the IPs she uses cover different areas in Houston, TX. -- FayssalF - 20:23, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Some mass CSD taggings by User:Kill the Non-Notable Articles

The username, itself, is very borderline, but it would seem that Kill the Non-Notable Articles (talk · contribs) is going on a slew of CSD taggings. I left a note on his/her talk page, but haven't received a response. I don't really wanna mass revert them unilaterally, so I figure I'd drop it here and see what others think. Cheers :) --slakr 09:14, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Editor has been blocked and edits have been reverted. — Save_Us_229 09:43, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Blocked and all is well. Jmlk17 09:48, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Soulgany101

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Resolved

I think I'd better post this here too. This editor has made repeated efforts to set up articles to promote a non-notable agenda as mainstream psychology. When one article is AFD'd or has his agenda excluded by consensus he tries to create another one, however with Cassandra complex (psychology) he has crossed the line into creating a sockpuppet account and using it in conjunction with at least two IPs to circumvent 3RR and hold the links he wishes to promote against all comers. He is also repeatedly blanking the Sockpuppet tag from User Talk:Goddessculture. I can't do a thing with him, I have tried.--Zeraeph (talk) 10:26, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

There were also these edits, although they might be good. I have no idea what that article is about, anyway, so I can't judge. Someguy1221 (talk) 11:37, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

The IPs don't all resolved to the same city (or even province), but this just screams COI/meatpuppet army. Someguy1221 (talk) 11:44, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

If you check here on this geographic locator you will see they are all the same town/city http://www.geobytes.com/IpLocator.htm (I won't name it) --Zeraeph (talk) 13:02, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

He has now performed his 4th revert to User Talk:Goddessculture as his reversions are to blank warning templates, is that 3RR? There seems to be a serious element of WP:POINT at play here too. My honest impression is that he is of the opinion that he is a law unto himself here. --Zeraeph (talk) 13:12, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Where does it say that one cannot remove warnings and tags from their own user pages? Actually, all I know of is this, which says the opposite. - Rjd0060 (talk) 15:50, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

This is already a sock puppet report; why here as well? Zeraeph called me and many others sockpuppets in the past, never retracted the accusation although proven glaringly wrong by Checkuser, and has a history of forum shopping. I can't believe I have to go look for the diffs yet again; I may as well store them in favorite places, because the pattern repeats. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:52, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/A Kiwi. There was also a previous incident at alexithymia, August 17 2007, where Zeraeph massively revert warred in a blanking frenzy, removing text that was well referenced by Soulgany101. They had asked me to mediate, and I saw no problem with Soulgany's edits. Strangely, although the article was protected by an admin, no one was blocked. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:04, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

You are totally misrepresenting your own knowledge of that incident, I removed text in good faith that appeared to be effectively uncited because the citation format had been changed to one I did not recognise (see these first edits AND the edit summaries http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Alexithymia&diff=151732345&oldid=151729783 ). At the time I had just crashed my car and was in shock, something of which you were fully aware. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3AAlexithymia&diff=151788842&oldid=151725166 ) --Zeraeph (talk) 04:00, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Sandy, I feel that you are stalking and bullying me for no valid reason at this stage. I feel that you wish to make it impossible for me to participate fully in Misplaced Pages on equal terms with other editors. Please stop it. You have just accused another editor of stalking you for about 100th of what you have just done to me here (http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=176913918&oldid=176913493). I would also like to point out that, as you now know, I was correct in requesting Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/A Kiwi as that editor turned out to be exactly the person I assumed them to be. Let's either take this to arbcom once and for all, or you leave me in peace --Zeraeph (talk) 03:38, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Can you explain your reference to A_Kiwi, out of curiosity? Additionally, I think the AN/I post is irrelevant given the sockpuppet report. A checkuser clears it up if the evidence of sockpuppetry warrants it, but it isn't for AN/I as far as I can tell. Avruch 03:50, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Avruch, I was on my way to bed and the problem seemed to be escalating. I was also concerned by the blanking of the sockpuppet tags. I had asked the User:Soulgany101 to clarify his identity and he made no move to do so. As for the situation with User:A_Kiwi, User:SandyGeorgia is now fully aware that I was 100% correct to be concerned about the identity and intentions of User:A_Kiwi in relation to myself, which is all that needs saying at this, much later, time. I made the mistake of assuming that User:SandyGeorgia was a manifestation of the same person because her behavior and attitude to me was so similar, a coincidence for which I am hardly responsible, though I have, of course apologised for my assumptions, I do not think I deserve to be bullied off Misplaced Pages by User:SandyGeorgia for more than a year later because of it.

I barely participate here at all now because of this. I just watch a couple of articles for vandalism and SPAM/self promotion that I am familiar with. I happened to see User:Soulgany creating an article on his favorite topic using 2 IP and a new identity, so I tried to apply policy. I do not think this warrants an ad hoc personal attack relating to irrelevant issues from over a year ago from User:SandyGeorgia --Zeraeph (talk) 04:13, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Look folks, this is all a bit of a storm in a teacup. I'm Soulgany101 and now Goddessculture. I am a novice on Misplaced Pages having only started editing this year. After a somewhat blundering beginning I thought it might be good to choose myself a new username and start afresh. In my complete ignorance of WP policies I literally thought I could have as many usernames as I wanted, and chose Goddessculture as my new account. I assumed that old accounts would just become obselete and could be deleted with a button push, but soon found out that any account I started remained in place, and this is what confused Zeraeph. I also became lazy with logging in a few times which added to Z's suspicion. I may have been ignorant and dense, but let me assure you my aim was not to multiple-vote or to deceive, although I thought the anonymity of not logging in was kinda good.

I have put a "disused" statement on previous account, which I trust is clear. I will also make every effort to log in each time so as not to create confusion. (I might add that a few times after I have logged-in I am again unlogged in as little as ten minutes due to some glitch in the system, though this is only occasionally).

You live and learn. From this point forward I'll use only the Goddessculture account, and no other.

For the record, although this has resulted from my mistakes, I also am quite certain that Zeraeph dislikes my approach to certain subjects and would be more than happy to find any technicality which would remove me from the WP system, and to use plenty of hyperbole to achieve that end.

I hope that clears things up a bit. Goddessculture (talk) 04:23, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Hardly, see http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Suspected_sock_puppets/Soulgany101&diff=176891914&oldid=176761060 (and here: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Cassandra_complex_%28psychology%29&diff=176890923&oldid=176879058 which you have already seen) . I admit I dislike your approach to certain subjects, I also dislike your tendency to use anon IPs without identifying yourself and your attempts at promoting specific non-notable agenda (and if you can get User:SandyGeorgia to establish that your favorite agenda are notable and encyclopaedic, with proper citations, up to the standard she demands from others, fine, I will accept them, but NOT based on self published websites!). I have no particular problem with your other edits and have never wished or attempted to have you removed from the WP system. --Zeraeph (talk) 04:33, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

A user disrupting by nominating all of the articles that I have worked on for WP:AFD

A user Justinm1978 is disrupting the encyclopedia by nominating all of the articles that I have worked on for AFD, see Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Nellie_Pratt_Russell and Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Myra_Hemmings, see User:Miranda/header. He did not tell me that he was going to nominate the articles for AFD, as seen per the guidelines. Is this stalking? Miranda 10:58, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't think this is disruption especially since an AFD is a discussion; articles will be kept if they meet the criteria for inclusion. Taking a brief look at your header, Lucy Diggs Slowe and Elma Lewis weren't nominated, probably some others too (I didn't check) so it's not all the articles. I doubt it is stalking; he could have come across Category:Alpha Kappa Alpha Founders which contains those articles and it is unlikely that a user would stalk another for no reason, it's usually as a result of a prior dispute (unless there has been a prior dispute?). James086 11:22, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Speaking to the author is the decent thing to do upon nominating massive number of their articles for deletion, but maybe I'm behind the times. El_C 11:33, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Well I think it's a bit rude not to, but I don't think that constitutes disruption unless Justinm1978 was trying to do it without Miranda noticing. However I think it's assuming bad faith to call nominating articles which Miranda has worked on for Afd disruption. If there is evidence that Justinm1978 did this to irritate or anger Miranda then it would be disruption, but I haven't seen any evidence of that. James086 11:45, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I just created Lucy Diggs Slowe, when I just noticed that all of the articles related to Delta Sigma Theta and Alpha Kappa Alpha founders were up for deletion. See this, as well as this made by his IP. After I removed the PRODS, he said "Please address issues instead of reverting. Miranda 11:47, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't see any stalking or distribution. --Fredrick day (talk) 12:03, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

He shouldn't have reverted your removal of the Prods (he seems to have been warned about this) and could have been more courteous, but it appears that he genuinely feels the subjects aren't notable. Is there any previous history that would indicate he has a bad-faith reason for nominating the articles? Shell 12:33, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

The AFD has been closed as no consensus on the block nomination. This is a good move and will allow discussion on the articles individually. I know Miranda has put many hours into these articles and the block nom of them must be troubling. Justinm1978 showed a poor understanding here and that has been duly noted by others at his talk page. -JodyB _talk 12:50, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Do I have an opportunity to respond to this rather hurtful accusation Miranda has levied against me? If so, please direct your attention to these links:

• Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Ray O. Wyland
• Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Frank Reed Horton

Which were nominated by Miranda for deletion solely because I made the deletion nominations on articles she worked on. In addition, prior to opening this complaint here, she initiated this discussion, which was moved to the AfD talk page because it was harmful to reaching consensus. Additionally, she is continuing to push her POV and be disruptive on another series of articles I nominated for deletion due to non-notability, as shown here:

• Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Myra Hemmings

There, she is making threats of me making a point when I'm not; accusing me of WP:BITE even though she clearly bit a new user who disagreed with her before; claiming I am "pushing for Alpha Phi Omega" over other organizations, even though my comment was that I'd be ok with a merge if they are not found to be notable: ; I also have no control over if the articles were speedy kept or not, in fact the reason they were speedy kept was given by an admin as them being clearly bad faith noms; in addition, her comments on all of these articles show to me a clear sense of ownership, as anybody who makes a change she does not agree with is immediately warned that they are vandalizing in addition to her commends on the AfD's that go along the lines of "I put a lot of work into this". The accusation given of Miranda of this being race-related are horribly misplaced, and I strongly encourage her to retract those unless she has some serious, strong evidence of such.

As for her accusations that I'm out to "nominated NPHC founders for deletion", she should note that the two links she references ( and are not me trying to censor wikipedia. The first is actually an article created by me that I was intending to send the Alpha Phi Alpha founders and Alpha Kappa Alpha founders into. The second is me referencing that intention.

I would like to note that while I am being accused of being disruptive, I do find her abuse toward me and anybody who disagrees with her (see previous bite as mentioned above) to be disruptive in itself. I personally do not care how long you have been contributing to the project, how many articles you have written, etc. That does not give you a pass on respecting others, nor does it make your contributions more valid than mine or anybody else's. I agree she has made some great contributions, but not everything is notable. I do not think everything is notable, hence the AfD to allow the community to decide. I will be resubmitting them all individually, as recommended in the AfD, and let the community sort it out. If they are notable, the community will agree as such, and I will be satisfied. If they are not notable, then they will be deleted. Either way, I'm ok with the result. Justinm1978 (talk) 16:48, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Meh, sorry you feel this way, but you have been in two previous cases, like mediation cases regarding determining if an organization is "social" or service see example edit summary, one without an edit summary as well as taking out "incorporated" in articles regarding sororities and fraternities (see this discussion as well) (edit without a summary). Me warning about WP:3RR is seen here, he responds with this and after I reverted his edit, he reinserts and accuses me of a personal attack. Most of his mainspace edits consist of reverting and POV pushing. He did this as well with his IP address to notable individuals. He also has submitted in the past a CU case to people who revert to certain revisions, thus assuming bad faith. I would like to see what the community would think about editing restrictions for Justin, because I think that 1.) most of his contributions are disruptive in nature and 2.) his POV pushing is causing stress for some editors who want to add to the encyclopedia, specifically for those belonging into a sorority/fraternity or want to know more about sorority/fraternity life. Also, he did not notify me that he was going to nominate for deletion these articles. I had to find out on my own. Miranda 20:45, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

abuse report

i want to report an abusive user~--- —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vdx10 (talk • contribs) 14:59, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

As your first contribution? Could you maybe clue us in as to who it is you want to report? Shell 15:04, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, as Shell Kinney said, you'll need to be a lot more specific than that. If the user is vandalizing, you can report them to WP:AIV. Metros (talk) 15:07, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

yes . this person came onto my previous talk page and started an argument. his name jeskeVdx10 (talk) 15:24, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

You mean User:Jéské Couriano, yes? Can you be more specific about what kind of "abuse" is going on here? And identify who you are so we can see this "argument"? Metros (talk) 15:30, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Doubly since there are no edits to the talk page of the account you are currently using. —C.Fred (talk) 15:31, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

C.Fred, I think what Vdx10 is saying here is that he is the reincarnation of someone else who had a previous run in with Jéské. Metros (talk) 15:34, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Looking at edit history, the reporting account, Vdx10, is a new account that User:V-Dash (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has created. —C.Fred (talk) 15:34, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

*points the above section* V-Dash = Vdx10 = Mantlefish, which = abuse of WP:SOCK. — Save_Us_229 16:54, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

• Thank you, Vdx10, for reporting the abusive user V-Dash, who is now on a final warning for sockpuppetry. Guy (Help!) 17:53, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Angela Beesley

link to note at AN. Just a note, Mercury 15:37, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Puppy General Kitten

Puppy General Kitten (talk · contribs) has copied my user and talk pages (and part of Abuse truth's talk page) as his user and talk pages. His other edits appear to be vandalism (which I've also reverted), but I don't think I should be the one to block. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 15:48, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Why cant somebody copy your page? I know it is a bit odd, but its not "yours" and any text on Misplaced Pages is subject to licensing terms..... - Rjd0060 (talk) 16:06, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

If he was copying layout features and things like that, sure. But when he's copying word for word the talk and user pages of another user and passing them off as his own, that's an issue. I think this guy needs an indefinite block, so I'll give him one. Metros (talk) 16:09, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand that. The bottom of every page here (including userspace) says "All text is available under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License". Again, I admit it is awfully weird, and maybe the block is justified for disruption reasons, but not just for copying the text, right? - Rjd0060 (talk) 16:11, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Yep, it does - its not about the copying, its about the attempted impersonation to make an account look reliable. Shell 16:15, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Right, it is disruptive to claim to be someone else. It's that plain and simple. To have a userbox claiming yourself as an admin is inappropriate if you're not an admin. In addition, he never attributed Arthur Rubin as the source of his user page. In order to use material from Misplaced Pages, our licensing requires that you attribute the source. So, in other words, he would have had to say that he copied that from Arthur Rubin's page for it to be kosher under the GFDL. Metros (talk) 16:17, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! -Rjd0060 (talk) 16:18, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Upsetting posts

I recently placed a speedy deletion tag on the userpage of Ipernar (talk · contribs). (diff) He later posted this message on my talk page, which I removed. Today he put this on my talk page. What am I supposed to do?--Phoenix-wiki  15:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Y Blocked by Nick. —Animum (talk) 16:02, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Edit conflict: I'm not and admin, but I would imagine there is nothing they can do at this point, unless he continues to harass you, which is what he is doing. Guess I was wrong. I've left him this note anyways, but I guess he was blocked. - Rjd0060 (talk) 16:04, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

You are not being stalked, and please do not use such hyperbole for what was actually a polite exchange; it trivialises serious problems. You were being proselytised. You went to his talk page and asked him what he meant, and he answered your question. While I quite agree the messages were out of keeping with appropriate user behaviour, there were no threats to you (not even a "you're going to Hell if you don't accept Jesus as your saviour") and the user wasn't following your every edit or contacting you outside of Misplaced Pages or demonstrating that he was trying to find your RL identity. Let's save the "stalking" word for situations where people are actually at risk of harm, please. Risker (talk) 16:30, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, those posts were upsetting, and I'm sure you would have found them just as upsetting if they were on you're tlak page--Phoenix-wiki  16:37, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Maybe so, however it hardly qualifies as "stalking", I'm afraid. Best thing to do is revert and ignore, really - Alison 20:50, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Image fix

Would an admin fix this please. Someone vandalised the image and I tried to roll it back to the original but apparently rollback doesn't work with images as it does with articles. It needs to go back to the original image. -- ALLSTARecho 17:27, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Who thought that putting animated gifs in a stub notice was a good idea?Geni 17:33, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

That's beside the point... -- ALLSTARecho 17:37, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

The image has already been reverted. hwoever I find it's authorship claim questionable.Geni 17:43, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

It rolled back Allstarecho, refresh your browser. — Save_Us_229 17:34, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I thought I did refresh but apparently not. -- ALLSTARecho 17:39, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Sock war on Afghanistan-related articles

We need as many uninvolved admins as possible keeping an eye on more or less all Afghanistan-related articles. There's a never-ending sock war going on there. We had three or four main native contributors to Afghanistan topics, all involved in an ethnic dispute between Pashtuns and Tajiks. All of them are now banned (most notably User:NisarKand, User:Tajik and most recently User:Beh-nam; see also section #User:Beh-nam above). All three of them are socking, all the time. My estimate is that some 75% of all edits to all Afghanistan-related articles we've seen in the last few months have come from banned socks. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:53, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Beh-nam never made any socks during the last two years. And neither did Tajik. User: Thatcher131 banned Tajik for being Tajik-Professor but right now it is determined that he was not Tajik-Professor (see his checkuser page). Then when Beh-nam started asking questions about this Thatcher started feeling the heat. Also Beh-nam did a checkuser on Thatcher's friend, and Thatcher's friend was proven by checkuser to use sockpuppets. Thatcher excused his own friend, but then he banned Beh-nam and accused him of proxy'ing for user: Tajik. Thatcher is a corrupt admin and protects his friends and all those that support Pan-Turkism across Misplaced Pages and finds ways to ban anyone who might be a threat to his friends or Pan-Turkism on Misplaced Pages. Beh-nam has sent man emails complaing about this to ArbCom, they are ignored.

Yes NisarKand has made dozens and dozens of sockpuppets. And they were all ignored. When Beh-nam reports them he got banned several times for "harrasing". This made his block log look bad and now Thathcer is using that as even more justification ot get Beh-nam band. Beh-nam reverts vandlism, what happens? He gets blocked. Beh-nam reports sockpuppets? What happens? He gets blocked. Beh-nam reports sockpuppets of friends of Admins? What happens? He gets banned and then his previous block get is used against him.

User: Tajik, was one of the finest editors here, check his awards. I asked for help to you and others to help unban him but you just ignored. There are very few people with as much knowledge and references as him, and not many of them would volunteer their time. Without him all Afghanistan related articles are going no where. I think Misplaced Pages should take the responsibility and investigate the Admin user: Thatcher131 and his bans of user: Tajik and then user: Beh-nam. user: NisarKand though is another story, he was banned for several long racist rants so he should remain banned. Tajik and Beh-nam however were banned mainly just because Thatcher131 had a problem with them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.216.199 (talk) 18:52, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Awards != good editor. We determine good editors by the quality of their edits. Nwwaew (Talk Page) (Contribs) (E-mail me) 19:43, 9 December 2007 (UTC) And he's been community banned, so he's pretty much out of luck, unless he can find an admin willing to unblock. Nwwaew (Talk Page) (Contribs) (E-mail me) 19:43, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

He made three articles Featured status and helped more articles get to Good status. So how's that not a good editor? He's only banned because Thatcher felt Pan-Turkism on Misplaced Pages threatened by him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.211.252 (talk) 21:45, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

SmackBot malfunctioning?

Something tells me the bot shouldn't be changing articles from looking like this to looking like this. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 18:27, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

He's replacing Template:POV with Template:POV-statement which is a different template; somebody block him temporarily and rollback all of his recent edits. <eleland/talkedits> 18:25, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I've blocked the bot an contacted the operator about it - it needed to be stopped quickly as it was starting to make secondary edits to some pages meaning rollback won't work on them all. Give me 5 mins and I'll start rolling back. Ryan Postlethwaite 18:32, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Hey, people! You don't need to block AWB-based bots in order to stop them. Simple talk page post is enough. MaxSem 18:35, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

It's faster to simply block the bot than it is to check to see if a talkpage message will stop it, then block the bot if it didn't. --Carnildo (talk) 00:53, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Right, I've rolled back all the edits that are obvious, the rest are mixed in with other edits so I can't go blind reverting. Not really sure what else to do unless we just blind revert all of SmackBots edits for today..... Ryan Postlethwaite 19:00, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Duke o Puke and Misplaced Pages Review

There's been a recent discussion about Duke o Puke (talk · contribs) and Duck of Luke (talk · contribs), see #User blocked for username requesting unblock for name change. Duck of Luke recently created the article SureFire M6 Guardian, which is now up for deletion at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/SureFire M6 Guardian‎. It appears that he may have been asked to do so by Misplaced Pages Review. See . Aecis 18:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

• I removed the sentence saying Jimbo has one. We would not include that if it were, say, Matt Damon. Guy (Help!) 19:21, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

• I've blocked Duck of Luke and deleted the article. My actions may look overzealous, but that WR discussion makes it obvious that: (1) the article wasn't created in good faith (2) it was created because Jimbo owns one such flashlight (3) this article is created on behalf of banned user Daniel Brandt. MaxSem 19:29, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Editing on behalf of Daniel Brandt isn't the wisest move. Agree with your block and deletion. The article was created with the intent of banned editors like Brandt getting to add content to the site, which is a big no-no. — Save_Us_229 20:52, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

If it's proven that he was meat puppeting for a banned user, I don't disagree with the ban however I disagree with the speedy deletion of the article. The AFD should have been allowed to complete and there was a consensus that the article should have been kept. I believe the rationale for deletion (WP:CSD#G5) was invalid because Duke of Luke or Puke wasn't the only editor to that article if I recall. I can't tell for sure as the article has been deleted. Also, if I recall, deletion based on the motivation for creating the article is not reason enough to delete the article as long as the article can be improved and add value to the project. Pocopocopocopoco (talk) 21:07, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I've looked at the history of the article, and the only author was Duck of Luke. The other editors made maintenance edits: adding cleanup tags, adding wikilinks, categorizing, etcetera. Aecis 21:49, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

My interactions with the Duke/Duck are that he is a very reasonable person. I ask that he be unblocked and warned not to recreate the article. He has been an editor in good standing prior to this and I believe he will contribute positively to Misplaced Pages if he is unblocked. Looking over the banning policy, I believe that he had to be banned first before creating the article before it can be deleted according to that CSD rule. Many Wikipedians like myself endorsed keep on the article not knowing of external influences. Regards, Ripberger (talk) 00:13, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

We should judge an article on its content not on the motives of the creator. Paul August ☎ 03:47, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

That's what I think. Misplaced Pages is a reference work. I also believe that we should focus on the content, not the contributor. Ripberger (talk) 03:53, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree and that is what I said above. It's a moot point now as someone else recreated the article unless it's going to be speedy deleted again. I would recommend the version before deletion gets restored as it had more information was better sourced and categories attached. Pocopocopocopoco (talk) 03:59, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Is there anything about the creation of this article that was so disruptive tat it required an indefinite block? AniMate 04:09, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I think that the block was for meatpuppetry for a banned user (apparently one that seems to be widely disliked but I don't know the whole story). The article seemed benign to me though. Pocopocopocopoco (talk) 04:15, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

It was closed with "Anyone is welcome to recreate this page in good faith", so just go and do so. DGG (talk) 04:34, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

There's still the issue of the Duck/Duke being blocked. I'm certain he will not be a problem for anyone if unblocked. Just give him a chance. He's done great work for the project well before this brouhaha and the article he started was well-sourced. I do not see a reason why he should remain blocked. Regards, Ripberger (talk) 08:12, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Comic Guaranty LLC

Can someone deal with this? Look at the history. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 22:05, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

As Jasonewert was clearly here to simply attack a person names Jason Ewert he has been username blocked. IrishGuy 22:57, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Dan Debicella

There appears to be an edit war going on at Dan Debicella between User:Ratsofftoya and User:64.148.1.113‎. I have warned both. Giles Bennett 22:21, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Well they're both at 7 reverts now, including alternate IP reverts, and both have reverted after receiving their warnings. It concerns me, though, that both versions are completely unsourced. Someguy1221 (talk) 22:34, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I've reported this to WP:AN3. Hopefully they'll start talking when they return from their (presumed) blocks, or just stay away from that article. Someguy1221 (talk) 23:20, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Inappropriate block of Ethajak

Anthony.bradbury recently placed a block against Ethajak (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) for "vandalism". The term "vandalism", as defined in Misplaced Pages's vandalism policy, refers to "any addition, removal, or change of content made in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Misplaced Pages", and expressly provides that "any good-faith effort to improve the encyclopedia, even if misguided or ill-considered, is not vandalism." Nowhere are putative violations of WP:NOT#CENSORED defined as "vandalism" in the vandalism policy. Moreover, it is obvious from an examination of Ethajak's edits that he was engaged in a content dispute over Erection (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), not a deliberate effort to harm Misplaced Pages, as the term vandalism implies. The characterization of Ethajak edits as vandalism, in warnings on his talk page, and in his block log, reflects a failure to assume good faith. Moreover, by blocking a user whose content edits he has reverted, Anthony.bradbury has blocked a user with whom he is engaged in a content dispute. I ask that this inappropriate block be removed. I further note that Ethajak's unblock request was recently declined on the grounds that while Ethajak's edits weren't actually vandalism, he was "edit warring to push... personal POV... wildly breached WP:3RR and never even attempted to garner consensus on the talk page as... continued warring." While I concede that Ethajak's edit warring was disruptive, as a new user possibly unframiliar with Misplaced Pages policy, Ethajak should have been informed of the relevent policy and asked to stop edit warring, being blocked only if he continued. The false accusations of vandalism against Ethajak likely inflamed the situation, and consituted a serious violation of WP:BITE. Morever, even if Ethajak were to be blocked for edit warring, he shouldn't have been blocked by an administrator who was reverting his edits . John254 22:32, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

It's hard to AGF on a user who uploads not one but three pictures of penises on account creation. Will 22:35, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Ethajak uploaded the diagrams to replace a photograph in Erection (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). It appears to be insinuated that he uploaded "three pictures of penises" for the purpose of defacing pages with them, which is clearly not the case. John254 22:45, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Ethajak was informed several times that his edits weren't appreciated. Edit warring without discussion after other editors have reverted and voiced their complaints is no less blockable than vandalism. At worst, Bradbury chose an incomplete block explanation. Someguy1221 (talk) 22:39, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Per WP:BLOCK, administrators must not block users who they are edit warring against, as Anthony.bradbury was. Moreover, the unjustified vandalism warnings placed on Ethajak's talk pages do not constitute acceptable communication concerning Misplaced Pages's policy against edit warring. John254 22:45, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

He was not involved in an edit war. The revert and the block came within one minute of eachother. It was functionally no different from blocking then reverting. So no, no. And the first warning said it all. Like I said before, that he saw (or ignored entirely) the message, and kept on reverting is what was unacceptable in his behavior. Someguy1221 (talk) 22:53, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

When one reverts edits in a content dispute, one becomes involved in said content dispute, and ineligible to employ one's administrative tools therein. Furthermore, template:uw-notcensored1 was inappropriate in this situation, as WP:NOT#CENSORED only provides that sexually explicit material may be included in relevant articles, not that it must, actual inclusion be decided on the basis of editorial discretion -- i.e., a content dispute. Ethajak should have been politely informed of Misplaced Pages's policy against edit warring, and blocked by an uninvolved administrator only if he continued -- not falsely accused of vandalism, and blocked for such by an administrator who reverted one of his edits. John254 23:03, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Additionally the diagrams he personally released into the public domain...aren't his. See here. IrishGuy 22:50, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Incorrect use of image licensing tags isn't necessarily vandalism -- it could simply be a mistake by a new user. John254 22:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Um no. The images had the artist signature removed and then a gray filter to make it look different. It was a blatant copyright infringement. IrishGuy 22:56, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Sceptre, hard to AGF and the block appears to be valid. The images all appear to be the same except the first upload is in color. All of them are of penile implants apparently from this site (copy/vio) .--Sandahl 22:59, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Vandalism defines only "repeated uploading of copyrighted material" after being warned as vandalism: "Uploading or using material on Misplaced Pages in ways which violate Misplaced Pages's copyright policies after having been warned is vandalism. Because users may be unaware that the information is copyrighted, or of Misplaced Pages policies on how such material may and may not be used, such action only becomes vandalism if it continues after the copyrighted nature of the material and relevant policy restricting its use have been communicated to the user." Perhaps we could assume good faith at least to the extent that the vandalism policy does. John254 23:12, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

There is assuming good faith and then there is ignoring the obvious. When someone takes an image from online and uploads it to Misplaced Pages...but then a few minutes later uploads a "new" version that has removed the artist signature and converted it to black and white thrn that user knew exactly what he was doing. He was violating copyright and trying to hide it. IrishGuy 23:15, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

If a user really were "violating copyright and trying to hide it", then it would have been far more effective for him to simply modify the photograph before performing any uploads. Moreover, he wouldn't have provided explicit credit to the copyright holder of the image, and specifically stated that the image was edited, as he did here. Ethajak should have been encouraged to contribute in a more productive manner, and blocked by an uninvolved administrator only if he continued making disruptive edits, not falsely accused of vandalism. John254 23:26, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

There is no "interpretation" involved here as far as use of images on WP is concerned. He placed a copyright image on WP and that is not permitted. He has tampered with it by removing a signature and the colour attributes. He certified that he is the copyright holder of the image here , which is quite untrue. The image will be deleted for copyright infringement. Mathsci (talk) 00:13, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

(The image was deleted while I posted the above.) Mathsci (talk) 00:21, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not seeing the alleged 3RR from Anthony. If anything, Ethajak was being disruptive for warring with censoring and copyrighted images. bibliomaniac15 00:18, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

There was no attempt to notify Ethajak of Misplaced Pages's copyright or edit warring policies before he was blocked. Not informing new editors of the actual objections to their edits, then incorrectly accusing them of vandalism, and blocking them on that basis encourages potentially productive new editors to leave. The guideline please do not bite the newcomers was designed as a caution against situations such as this. John254 00:24, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Stop wikilawyering. Assuming good faith is not a suicide pact and was never meant to be. RyanGerbil10(Говорить!) 00:27, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not claiming that WP:AGF is "a suicide pact". I'm claiming that editors should not be blocked for vandalism unless it is evident that their contributions are clearly such. The insinuation that asking Ethajak not to engage in edit warring, and not to upload copyright violations, before he was blocked, would somehow amount to Misplaced Pages's "suicide" is without merit. John254 00:42, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

He was warned twice about replacing one of the thumbnail images with his own plagiarised image. He was told about wikipedia censorship policy and warned that he could be blocked. Yet he took absolutely no notice of the two warnings and continued with the insertion of his image. That seems to be deliberate vandalism. Mathsci (talk) 00:48, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

That's circular logic. The placement of a template:uw-vandalism4 warning assumes that Ethajak's contributions were vandalism prior to the warning; if they weren't, then the warning was invalid, and his continued edits after receiving an invalid warning don't imply anything. The template:Uw-notcensored1 warning was likewise invalid -- it is intended to be used where users blank sexually explicit content without explanation, or with a frivolous explanation; as explained above, a genuine dispute over whether any given image should be included is a content dispute, not vandalism. Ethajak should have been informed about the actual legitimate objections to his edits. John254 01:00, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

It's not circular logic at all. The two unheeded warnings were quite clear. Are you suggesting that first time users are allowed to ignore all warnings, even when there are messages flashing up in front of them? Mathsci (talk) 01:13, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

BTW, contrary to your initial statement, neither warning was from Anthony.bradbury. Mathsci (talk) 01:19, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Censorship referred to his removal of an image, just in case you hadn't worked that out. Mathsci (talk) 01:23, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I didn't claim that the vandalism warnings were issued by Anthony.bradbury, though this may have been mistakenly implied by context in which the warnings were described. Nor am I "suggesting that first time users are allowed to ignore all warnings, even when there are messages flashing up in front of them". I am, however, asserting that new users cannot be expected utilize telepathy to ascertain the intentions of the users issuing warnings. They cannot be expected to understand that a "stop vandalizing" warning actually means "stop edit warring", or that a "not censored" warning actually means "don't upload copyright violations". Unless, of course, we assume that any good faith user who received a template:uw-vandalism4 warning would be so insulted that would leave Misplaced Pages immediately. John254 01:30, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

(unindent for sanity) If a user (newbie or otherwise) can't associate his revert war with the bright new message bar and harsh warnings, he probably intends to edit war regardless. Were little slip ups made on his inevitable path to being block? Maybe a nicer, personalized message would have done better than templates. But at this point you have to simply ignore the rules and consider, will anything good come from unblocking this user? Why not let him cool down from his edit war over the course of his block. If he wants to continue this tomorrow, he can start a discussion somewhere. Someguy1221 (talk) 01:43, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

If personalized messages weren't going to be written, then template:uw-3rr and template:uw-copyright would have provided adequate warning. There is a reason, after all, why we have warning templates customized to various situations, instead of a general warning along the lines of {{warning|We don't like your edits. Don't continue making edits we don't like, or you will be blocked.}} Furthermore, if Ethajak were going to be blocked without effective warning for edit warring and copyright violations, his block log should at least reflect that fact, rather than containing an unjustified use of the term "vandalism", which effectively accuses Ethajak of being amongst the lowest of scum on Misplaced Pages. John254 02:16, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Let me also observe that I wasn't aware of Ethajak's copyright violations when I first made this report, and, in all likelihood, neither was the blocking administrator -- I don't believe that Anthony.bradbury would have blocked Ethajak for "vandalism" through copyright violations, but wouldn't have deleted the copyvio images (the images were initially deleted at least 12 minutes after the block, by a different administrator, characterizing the images as vandalism, not copyright violations). What we are faced with, here, is a situation in which any replacement of sexually explicit material with less explicit material is being treating as vandalism, not a content dispute. WP:NOT#CENSORED notwithstanding, I believe that this reflects a failure to assume good faith (note that even many indisputable fundamental policy violations, such WP:NPOV violations and the insertion of original research, are not inherently treated as vandalism.) Of course, the applicability of WP:NOT#CENSORED to this situation is doubtful, as the policy provides that "some articles may include objectionable text, images, or links if they are relevant to the content", not that they must. John254 03:13, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

that sort of attempt to evade not censored can & does happen, but I do not see this as an instance of it. DGG (talk) 04:33, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

The user in question was engaging in edit-warring to include a copyrighted diagram of a penile implant, violating not only the 3RR, but our image use policies as well. Enforcing policy by reverting the insertion of an improperly-licenced image does not prohibit that administrator from further enforcing policy by means of blocking. FCYTravis (talk) 07:02, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

User:Angie Y.

Angie constantly causes problems, usually relating to her POV edits. Back in May, User:TTN merged the episodes articles relating to Code Lyoko, and Angie's behavior due to this cause an RfC. After that, Angie made a variety of edits, some of which were POV. For example, something like this or various edits here, many of which have caused edit wars (mainly on articles relating to Code Lyoko with User:Someguy0830). angie also will occasionally make edits that re original research. Many users (including me and User:JetLover) have tried to talk to her and stop her from making these edits. We have given her many links to helpful pages, but she continues these edits. It seems as though she is not listening, even if she claims that she is not ignoring us. And just today, she added "finally" to an article in a context that would show that she is on one side (the character's), and not a neutral one. JetLover said he would post here if this continues, however he is not here, so I have done that for him Thanks!, Codelyoko193 (T/C) 22:51, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like a content dispute to me. Follow the dispute resolution process (WP:DR). What are you asking admins to do? Allege a specific policy violation that admins can act on. Avruch 23:21, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

It's not about content, but conduct. Would an RfC be more appropriate? Thanks!, Codelyoko193 (T/C) 00:23, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you can even open an RFC on a user. Someguy1221 (talk) 01:45, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

User:Beenturns

The only edits of Beenturns (talk · contribs) so far have been to nominate Seung-Hui Cho, the perpetrator of Virginia Tech massacre, for deletion. See Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Seung-Hui Cho. Very suspicious, to say the least. This appears to be a sockpuppet out to prove a point, possibly in relation to Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Robert A. Hawkins. Aecis 22:54, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Greatsoul

Great Soul (talk · contribs) has continuously inserted libelous statements onto Vishwa Hindu Parishad and other articles, in a probable violation of WP:3rr as well. He has utilized a sockpuppet, Special:Contributions/70.171.63.3.

• 12-07T11:30:41
• 12-08T11:27:59
• 12-08T15:35:46
• Not a revert, but slanderous
• 12-09T09:33:30

The user has done this on a couple other pages as well, all unsourced and has been warned not to engage in this editing. This seems to be a vandal only account.Bakaman 00:01, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Blatant violations of WP:NPOV accompanied by no discussion can be dealt with the same as trivial vandalism, using the appropriate warning templates and report to WP:AIV if necessary. I have left Great Soul such a warning. Someguy1221 (talk) 01:49, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Need help with editor removing fact tags

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Resolved

An editor on one of the article's I've been working has twice removed a {{fact}} tag I placed on an article less than 24hours ago (Dec 9, 14:12).

The first time the editor removed the tagDec 9, 23:35, they tried to provide an extended argument to prove that this statement was true and so didn't need a fact tag. I explained that according to WP:V the burden of proof was on the provider of the uncited claim, and that she would either have to change the substance of the claim or add a citation. I also referred her to WP:V and WP:NOR. I then restored the {{fact}} tag.

The editor then rephrased it making a minor rewording (effectively changing "X unanimously does" to "no X does not") and then removed the fact tag(Dec 10, 00:28). I suppose she might have misunderstood what it meant to change the content of the claim. I'd like at least to assume good faith and suppose she had. In any case, the claim still needs a citation so I replaced the {{fact}} tag.

Further complicating the situation is that the editor in question is removing fact tags on an article that she herself nominated for AfD. The AfD has expressed concerns about sourcability of the article so those fact tags are absolutely necessary for us to keep track of which claims still need sourcing and which do not. In effect the editor, intentionally or unintentionally is sabataging attempts to repair the article.

I'm not sure what to do next. I'm hoping she'll refrain from removing the fact tag again. On the other hand I'm not sure what to do if she does. Its important that these fact tags stay in place, but I certainly don't want myself blocked for undoing someone's edits 3X. I'm not at all experienced in these situations. Help needed. Thanks in advance. Egfrank (talk) 01:02, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Deleting previous comments. What a mess that AfD is. I've voted, so don't take my advice is neutral necessarily (nor am I an admin) but my advice would be to refrain from edit-warring over fact inserts until the AfD is sorted out. Once its decided if the article will survive or not, then an RfC on the enormous number of issues and warring POVs might be appropriate. Avruch 01:22, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

You sum it up well. There are so things that need fixing that I think we can let this one sentence ride for now. Thanks, Egfrank (talk) 01:50, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Avruch, except that i think a RfC might produce yet more of a mess even afterwards, and we should better hope for a fresh start. DGG (talk) 02:52, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Stalking?

When looking, for other good reasons, at SandyGeorgia's edit history, I found the name of an article she had commented on the day before interesting, and commented on a related AfD, here. I have now received a warning claiming that this one occurence, on one article, is Wikistalking. This seems to me a much tighter definition than the "following a user around Misplaced Pages" that WP:STALK uses; it has been combined with an undiscussed revert of a copyedit, here.

If it is consensus that this was stalking, I will apologize; if so, I suggest that WP:STALK be reworded; but I don't think this was, or can have been, the intent. Good editors visit interesting articles which I did not know existed; and I came here to look at interesting articles. I trust, on the other hand, that this is not an effort to use admin powers to gain an edge in a wording discussion. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:23, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

The timing (unclear why you say "the day before")

• 17:49, December 7, 2007 I post to the AfD in question, as shown in your diff above.
• 18:30, December 7, 2007 You edit FAR instructions
• 18:31, December 7, 2007 I revert vague and redundant changes, request talk page discussion
• 18:55, December 7, 2007 You re-instate without discussion. This is edit warring, as you are well aware of the spirit of WP:3RR. You also label my revert a "personal attack".
• 19:09, December 7, 2007 You post to FAR talk after having made the edit twice without discussion and without waiting for any other editor to opine (as you know, Marskell is Raul's proxy at WP:FAR).
  • Sorry, Sandy, I compose slowly; that's how long it took me to write the comments. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 04:48, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
• 20:00, December 7, 2007, is the end of a several-post exchange at the FAR-instructions talk page
• 20:07, December 7, 2007, after the FAR-instructions exchange, you post to an Afd in a subject area you have never before frequented, and admit that you went there because you saw it in my edit history.

I don't recall ever seeing you before at Hugo Chavez or Venezuelan-related articles. Since you have had other disputes with me, there is reason for concern that you follow my contribs to an AfD in a topic area I frequent. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:55, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Sandy, all contributions to an AfD discussion are welcomed. The history is there on the AfD for the closing admin to see. Trust them to take it into account if need be. Posting annotated timelines is not really going to help. Comment on the comments by the editor, not on the editor. Carcharoth (talk) 03:02, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I put up the timing because I thought his reference to "the day before" strange, since it was immediate. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:07, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I believe what initially drew my attention was this edit; I got to the AFD through several pages, but saw no reason to act until I did. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 04:48, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Septentrionalis, I wouldn't view that as stalking. I agree that you need more than one such incident of "following" for it to become stalking. I often follow up things I notice while reading other people's talk pages after leaving them a note. Looking through someone's contribs is also OK (that's why we have contribs logs), but following up on something seen there is slightly more "following" than seeing an interesting discussion on their talk page. I also think Marskell and SandyGeorgia need to calm down. Carcharoth (talk) 02:58, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Where have I or Marskell been uncalm? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:09, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Where you said "there is reason for concern". If you really think this is a problem, keep an eye on it and then come back later with more evidence. A single incident like this doesn't constitute stalking, in my view. If you could show a series of such incidents, and consistent opposition to your comments, then it might be different. Marskell has been decidedly less calm than you though, I'll give you that. To be fair, I also think Septentrionalis didn't need to drag this over to ANI. You, Marskell and Septentrionalis are all experienced editors and should try harder to work together. I suspect the real issue is at WP:FAR, and that the AfD and stalking accusations are just a sideshow resulting from tensions at that page. Carcharoth (talk) 03:19, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I brought it here because I really wanted to know if this were a general understanding I had missed out on; WT:STALK might have done equally well, now that I think of it, but it didn't occur to me. I thank you all for your comments. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 04:39, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Everyone gets their contributions history looked at and their talk pages watchlisted once in awhile. As long as you're not making a point of following any other editors around all the time, then I wouldn't worry about any well-intentioned warning. ➪HiDrNick! 03:07, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

And further, helpful peering over someone's shoulder and helping them out is, well, helpful. Though there are certain personality types that bridle if you do this, and it is best to back off at that point. I've always welcomed people popping into a conversation out of the blue. It reminds me that there are always more people reading and watching than you think. Carcharoth (talk) 03:22, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

• I notice four reverts by Septentrionalis and three by Marskell in the history of the FAR page. You should both be more careful, lest ye fall afoul of 3RR. I agree with Carcharoth that there is no evidence of stalking in the above diffs. More than participating in an AfD that you've contributed to is required to violate WP:STALK. The FA official types have (from what I've read, which is not authoritative) facilitator authority over the process, not the rules. These are open to discussion and modification like anything else, and the deputies and delegates should be diplomatic about relatively minor edits. Avruch 03:12, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

it's generally good to have new eyes on a disputed subject. And we want to encourage participation in AfD. DGG (talk) 04:23, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

If anybody wants to comment on the wording of {{FAR-instructions}} or the general question of FAR standards, new voices are always welcome. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 05:04, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

PMA entered a separate dispute within minutes of disputing with Sandy on the template. C'mon. My second link was perfectly calm and an accurate summary. Marskell (talk) 08:48, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Re: Protection of China and Names of China

Due to persistent abuse of sockpuppets by Peter zhou (talk · contribs)/JackyAustine (talk · contribs), the articles China and Names of China have been full protected to prevent further disruptions by this long term abuser. If there are any sysops that disagree with my actions, I am willing to discuss, and I would not oppose any reversal of or amendment to my actions. nat.utoronto 03:20, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I would suggest lowering the protection on China. It is far too high profile an article to have on indefinite full protection IMO. Mr.Z-man 03:35, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

we need to do more then semi-protect, as they are not anons--and the abuse has been continuous for over a month. DGG (talk) 04:20, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Can't the users be blocked instead? Same result with minimal disruption for the rest of us? --Jayron32|talk|contribs 07:04, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I've been doing that for the last month, and frankly, it does not stop this guy. and the fact that he works on several ranges and probably switches to a new address ever couple of hours, I would say that full protection is the most effective way of preventing PZ/JA from using his socks to disrupt these two articles. nat.utoronto 08:32, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Timothy Braun

User:Shrinertim see http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Special:Contributions&limit=500&target=Shrinertim all this user's edits have been to repeadetly vandalize the Timothy Braun article can this user be banned? --Java7837 (talk) 03:32, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

No. On a lot of the edits, the user does not appear to be vandalizing. He appears to be trying to make good faith edits. Have a little patience with new users, please. Also, nobody even told the user what the problems were with his/her edits. I've added a welcome note with some information for the user. - Rjd0060 (talk) 04:23, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

This user is not doing good faith edits look at http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Timothy_Braun&diff=176919875&oldid=176911517 ( I had to remove much of this user's vandalism twice already) --Java7837 (talk) 05:09, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

These don't really look like good faith edits, I would concur with that. 1) Has the user been warned 2) Have they been given the opportunity to edit past the warning 3) Has this been tried at WP:AIV? --Jayron32|talk|contribs 07:03, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

regional power article.

The regional power article has been protected because of an edit war. I would ask you to please review the history of this article, to see how this problem started. Argentina has been listed as a regional power for months. I included it several months ago, after finding reliable and objetive external sources that backed up its inclusion, and after a respectful discussion with other wikipedians. You can check that by checking the history and talk page of the article. A couple weeks ago, this user Kardark started removing Argentina for no apparent reason. He just said that "it was not a regional power", without any sources to back that up. I reverted his changes since they were of a vandalistic nature, and I also looked for two more external sources stating that Argentina is a regional power, bringing the total up to four. But he wouldnt care, he would keep removing Argentina without a valid justification, and in order to do that he would sometimes use his username and sometimes just an IP address. Because of this, he was warned. You can check his talk page history to confirm that. Of course, I would keep reverting his changes. For this, he started calling me a "fanatic" and a "troll". The truth is, he is removing sourced information because of his personal opinion. He has not given any solid argument to counter the four external sources cited in the article. I dont think thats OK. And what he has done now is, removing Argentina once again and then protecting the Article, so it cant be included. Everything I explained to you can be checked by looking at the history of the article. Please assist. Aletano (talk) 04:17, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

the protection seems to have been placed by an uninvolved admin, not by Kardark, (who is not an admin and thus unable to place protection on an article.)DGG (talk) 04:27, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

G-Dett

I've been keeping an eye on the discussion at Talk:Gary Weiss over the 24 hours due to a high incidence of edit warring and personal attacks on those trying to enforce the standards there. After seeing take a turn for the worse (starting with this and this) I issued several mild NPA warnings One particularly biting comment from G-Dett about an admin I removed. Sadly, G-Dett has taken to making threats in response. If someone wants to talk some sense into G-Dett it would be better than what will happen when the drama machine kicks into high gear. FeloniousMonk (talk) 04:28, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Readers may note that FeloniousMonk's interpretation of events is not universally accepted. It would be interesting to discover what someone with no prior involvement in these discussions (or others involving the same participants) would make of the matter. CJCurrie (talk) 04:33, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Responsible readers can read the diffs for themselves and make their own conclusions and act accordingly. They'll also recognize attempts to poison the well here for what they are. Instead of implying that I'm less than neutral, which is not the case, why did you not disclose that you've had a personal axe to grind with me for at least 18 months? Please don't let your personal grudge against me disrupt the project by enabling NPA violators. FeloniousMonk (talk) 04:39, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe a "holier than thou" attitude is likely to persuade responsible readers of the validity of one's position. CJCurrie (talk) 04:46, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Don't bother denying that you've done exactly this sort of poisoning of the well to me many times here before. I've the diffs if you've forgotten. Don't waste our time and yours. FeloniousMonk (talk) 04:58, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe that casting doubt on a self-serving interpretation of events can be said to constitute "well-poisoning". Btw, should I interpret your remarks here as intimidation? CJCurrie (talk) 05:12, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Any self-serving remarks from you will continue to be seen for what they are as long as you continue your peevish attempts to undermine me in matters which you have no interest. Such things are part of the cost of conducting admin business. I've been trolled by better. How about trying to help minimize disruption to the community rather than settling old scores? FeloniousMonk (talk) 06:02, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Readers should be aware that FeloniousMonk has consistently accused me of trying to "settle old scores" on every single occasion that I've criticized his actions in the last year or so. I continue to hope that he'll eventually desist with such ad hominem attacks, and engage with me on the level of rational argumentation. CJCurrie (talk) 06:31, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Uhm, the fact that you have to say every single occasion kinda proves his point exactly. You seem to be critical of any action, regardless of whether or not his behavior is inappropriate. Perhaps disengaging would be appropriate after a year of this? Shell 06:58, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I can see how you might reach this conclusion, but I'm afraid it's not accurate. I've sometimes criticized FeloniousMonk for bringing forward questionable interpretations of events, for acting in questionable ways, and for making statements that could easily be interpreted as intimidation. He's invariably dismissed all of this as "trolling" or "settling old scores". I'm prepared to stand by my comments on each occasion, just as I'll stand by my comments here.

Btw, in case my previous remarks made it appear that I was compulsively seeking out controversy with FM, I should clarify that I can probably count on one hand the times I've interacted with him in the last year. CJCurrie (talk) 07:14, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, in my eyes the "turn for the worse" began when this innocuous question was met with accusations of "deliberate disruption," "bad faith," hounding, harassing, etc. I suggest interested admins follow the entire exchange. I suggest they also follow Felonious' link above to a "threat" of mine, so that they can discover for themselves that it doesn't exist.--G-Dett (talk) 04:43, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

"Admin privileges or no, I suggest you back off." Since the unwritten or unspoken clause is usually "or else..." it's an implied threat in my experience. FeloniousMonk (talk) 04:50, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Or else what? What exactly did you imagine I was threatening you with? Or did your imagination supply the first part of the unspoken, unwritten phrase only to then languidly trail off, while your fingers went to work typing an AN/I report?--G-Dett (talk) 05:20, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Drama, personal attacks, vexatious litigation; there's a history of all from the regular of those articles. FeloniousMonk (talk) 05:51, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the last part of that edit was clearly a personal attack and is unexcusable, but I'm puzzled as to why the first piece which was not a personal attack was removed. I'd suggest everyone on the page calm down. JoshuaZ (talk) 05:09, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

The original poster here gave a very selective, one-sided overview of the situation, where in fact several people on "his side" have made personal attacks: Diff1 Diff2 Diff3 Diff4 *Dan T.* (talk) 05:28, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

It's relevant to point out here that Dtobias has a dog in this race, being one of those who's comment's I've called out as being disruptive and who is editorially-aligned with G-Dett. FeloniousMonk (talk) 05:47, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

G-Dett has a history of being less than civil. See also the talk page for Battle of Jenin. Or hell, check out her contribs, I'm sure the edit summary incivility will be easily seen, she's anything but subtle. Kyaa the Catlord (talk) 05:48, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

So does FeloniousMonk; here he dismisses a user-conduct RFC as "useful only insofar as it provides us list of all the ED-aligned nogoodniks who need to be watched and dealt with." (sounds like a threat to me!), and last year, here, he said that "What I've seen here is very one-sided bullying and intimidation of SV over a petty, contrived issue", when it was actually him that was participating in bullying and intimidation of an editor who had raised a valid point about an image's copyright status. *Dan T.* (talk) 05:55, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

So you're admiting you're party to a group of editors from WikipediaReview who oppose SlimVirgin. Thanks for making this point for us. FeloniousMonk (talk) 06:06, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for providing another case in point of how you label people's affiliations rather than logically refute their positions. *Dan T.* (talk) 06:09, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

You brought up the issues in an attempt to disparage, so expect to get called on your poor behavior as well. Shell 06:58, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

There is a difference in giving ones opinion on an RFC where people are requested to give honest testimony and a persistant pattern of abusive behavior that has no sign of stopping. Kyaa the Catlord (talk) 06:52, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

• My take -- everyone is being a bit uncivil, but its not rising to the level of personal attacks. I don't believe that comment needed to be edited as it was a comment on meta-issues not an attack. I also do not believe that G-Detts comment was a threat - it appears to be nothing more than a request to disengage. Everyone involved needs to cool down a bit; it looks like mediation might be helpful since it doesn't appear that you're going to resolve this amongst yourselves. Shell 06:58, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

• Monk's contention that edit warring is going on isn't true, the article was fully protected by JzG three days ago. Anyway, Jimbo has just weighed in on the issue and seems to be making a fairly honest effort to help resolve the situation there. So I think this discussion can return to the Weiss talk page. Cla68 (talk) 07:45, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Just an FYI, as a major bone of contention in the deleted discussion was, "Why is the Register an acceptable source on the Patrick M. Byrne article, but not Gary Weiss at all?" I asked on the Talk page, and no one answered. Some random IP removed the first Register link from the Byrne page, I just removed the second. As the Register is reporting on the same conflict, it would be a violation of NPOV from what I'm seeing to allow a harsh Register view of Byrne to be published, but to somehow omit the same on Weiss. NPOV doesn't play favorites, even with alleged scumbags. Given that there is little support for Register as a source for anything Weiss/Overstock related, those stories shouldn't be referenced in either article. Lawrence Cohen 07:51, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Um, the Register was not being used as a source on the Byrne page. It was listed under external links. Is this how it was being used on the other page? Kyaa the Catlord (talk) 08:15, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Edit warring over removal of fair use images

Over the last several days, there's been a slow edit war happening at List of characters in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. A discussion has taken place at Talk:List_of_characters_in_Grand_Theft_Auto:_San_Andreas#Removal_of_fair_use_images_from_this_article. The use of fair use images on lists such as this to depict individual characters has been deprecated. This sort of usage became deprecated subsequent to Foundation:Resolution:Licensing policy, which generated considerable debate on first implementation (see Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2007-05-07/Fair use). Other highly similar article types have seen this action of fair use removal (such as discographies and "list of characters in..." type articles). See WP:NFCC on minimal use, and first sentence of WP:NFC#Unacceptable_images for further guidance. This sort of removal has become routine. Nevertheless, and despite my best efforts to educate the people on this particular article, these users are insisting that a consensus must form in order to remove the fair use images from this article, regardless of policy and prior consensus on articles of the same type. I need one or more admins to step in and put a halt to the efforts of these users to continue to force fair use images back onto this article in ignorance of policy. Thank you, --Hammersoft (talk) 05:37, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

EpicFlame block

I just noticed that EpicFlame, a user I help out from time to time, was blocked on 13 November by GlassCobra. The block seems pretty unfair: as far as I can tell, it was for recreating an "attack" userbox in userspace that was only referenced from the user's own page. EpicFlame was a valuable contributor, and was indef blocked without warning. Can anyone shed any light on this? I've asked GlassCobra for details, but did not hear back in his last session of editing. -- Mark Chovain 06:35, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

That userbox was previously deleted by ST47, as an attack page, and was recreated by EpicFlame with the edit summary "Take that ST47!". The user also had a number of other userboxes in the same vein, such as User:ShooterBoy/UserBoxes/youreadouche, User:EpicFlame/UserBoxes/lovestotorture and User:EpicFlame/UserBoxes/douchebag; had moved the first userbox out of his userspace to the templatespace as Template:Youradouche; and had the page User:EpicFlame/Epilepsy2 in his userspace, which consisted of a series of flashing GIF animations and was created with the edit summary "YAY! EPILEPSY! *DROOOL*!".

All of that probably had something to do with the block too. --bainer (talk) 07:09, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

User:Babakexorramdin

This user has been making inappropriate comments on the talkpage of Azerbaijani Jews.

He started off by arbitrarily adding comments about the accepted Azeri word for Jew being in fact derogatory . He specifically mentioned that in Azerbaijan "a derogatory term is used" to refer to Jews, whereas in Iran (a comment that just came out of nowhere) they use names that are not derogatory.

He continued his allegations on the talkpage by calling the government of Azerbaijan "panturkists" and accusing it of discriminating against all minority groups. He kept making references to Iran and the Persian language, as if Iran's political and social system and their advantages had anything to do with the article. Notice that he did not cite a source to back up his claims that the Azeri word for Jew is derogatory. Another edit of similar content literally states that "Iranians are more respectful towards their religious minorities than the Panturkists from republic of Azerbaijan". As you see, a source on the derogatory nature of the Azeri word for Jew is yet to be cited on his part. After an adequate response to such disrespectful behaviour, this user left a comment in Azeri , which translates as: "Who is Pan-power, me or you? If you are sick (ill, mentally disturbed), don't post. It doesn't matter at all, whether you are Iranian, or Turkish, or Mongol, or Indian, or Chinese, the territory of the Republic of Azerbaijan used to be within Iran.". Right after I expanded the introduction of the article , he started a new thread saying it was "weak of you to first oppose me then take my words and add Yahudi to it", even though I did not abandon my original argument and he had not actually had those "words" (i.e. no signs of sources) in any of his messages. They displayed criticism of Azerbaijan and its people, followed by personal attacks, rather than being an actual input aimed at improving the quality of the article. Parishan (talk) 08:27, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Can I tell someone not to post on my talk page?

Says User:BrownHairedGirl: "Norton, which bit of "stay off my talk page" is that you are unable to comprehend? Let me spell it out more simply: "do not post on my talk page again"."

So, open question: Can I tell people not to post on my talk page? If so, that sounds really cool. If not, then that was very rude of BHG. Guroadrunner (talk) 08:55, 10 December 2007 (UTC)