Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 01:01, 6 July 2005

I have just started this WikiProject based on the standards that I myself have followed when contributing to the NFL articles. However, it is definitely not complete since I have not really been focusing on the playes, coaches, defunct teams, or the Pro Bowl. Feel free to contribute. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 4 July 2005 06:10 (UTC)

Good idea for a Wikiproject. File:Us flag large.png Phoenix2 4th of July! 16:56 (UTC)

format for team pages

I am very glad this wikiproject is underway. One of the first issues I want to bring up is a feature of the current format for team pages posted on the wikiproject page. This is something I noticed and spurred me to want to create some sort of standard for NFL articles. One of the sections is for "Current players". It used to be called "Current stars" but I changed it because I felt it was too subjective - there were plenty of players listed who were definitely not stars (just-drafted rookies for instance). The problem now is that there seems to be no standard for who is listed under current players. The Packers article, for instance, lists every player on the team roster, including all sorts of undrafted free agents and CFL retreads, even though only a fraction of this bunch have their own articles. The Browns article, on the other hand, lists 11 players in this section.

I propose a general guideline for this section in team articles.

• All players that have articles in wikipedia should be listed
• All players who are starters (24 including kicker and punter) should be listed
• Any players who are not "official" starters but get significant playing time should be listed - for example, most defensive lines employ a heavy rotation that can often lead to seven or eight linemen getting playing time on the field.
• Any notable rookies (first round draft choices for the most part) should be listed.

These are quite broad guidelines that should satisfy all while keeping the list of "current players" encyclopedic. I am guessing that with such criteria about 30-35 players from each team will be listed among "current players."--Sophitus July 5, 2005 06:29 (UTC)

Yes, the formats are quite broad because there are so many users making various additions that I did not decide on a specific format yet. I do think we should have a seperate list for the just the starters.

Another idea I have based on Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Ice Hockey/Team pages format is to have a table of each team's season-by-season record. In fact, I have been working on some tables at User:Zzyzx11/Sandbox/A and User:Zzyzx11/Sandbox/N. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 5 July 2005 07:24 (UTC)

There is also an ongoing issue for listing team stars that did not make the NFL Hall of Fame or the team's Hall of Fame. I personally feel that if a person didn't even make their own team's Hall of Fame, they are of little note. But, referring to them as "Not to be Forgotten" sounds very dreary to me. I prefer something along the lines of "Past Stars". Kainaw 5 July 2005 19:58 (UTC)

Season-by-season record tables is a fantastic idea and I agree that "Past Stars" is better than "not to be forgotten". Ultimately, which players make such lists as "past stars" or "current players" will be somewhat POV. I don't think there is any way to avoid this without just including everyone, which is clearly not encyclopedic. I think that as long as we assume good faith edits and make sure there are no obviously not notable players, we can maintain good lists. If there are no objections, I will begin editing the "current players" sections of team articles according to the criteria I have listed above.--Sophitus July 5, 2005 21:15 (UTC)

"Main rivals" list

• An anonymous user has entered a "Main rivals" list on all of the team articles. Personally, I find such a list a little POV. But should we keep it or not? Zzyzx11 (Talk) 5 July 2005 18:14 (UTC)
  • I saw we should keep it. It is POV, but the entries are mainly accurate and the information is relevant.--Sophitus July 5, 2005 21:19 (UTC)

I disagree. It is POV, and rivals change over time. Perhaps it it was called "historic rivals" or "traditional rivals" that would make a little more sense. --mtz206 July 5, 2005 23:44 (UTC)

Yes, it is POV. I say get rid of it. For example on the Kansas City Chiefs, "Main Rivals: Denver Broncos, Oakland Raiders, St. Louis Rams, San Diego Chargers, San Francisco 49ers" I can somewhat understand you have to list their AFC West division rivals but that is redundant information. In addition, the NFC competitors Rams and the 49ers are hardly their main rivals consider they only play them every 4 years or so. And why are the 49ers listed? Because of Joe Montana? --Krystyn Dominik 6 July 2005 00:30 (UTC)

I agree with removing it. My first guess would be that 99% of the 'rivals' are the other 3 division teams. Beyond that, there are minor rivals that are brought out to give the announcers something to talk about - or just to try and sound cool, like "The battle of the Bays". Since when has Green Bay been all that worried about Tampa Bay? I agree that there are some bitter rivals. Using the KC example above, the primary rival was the Raiders for many years. In the 80s, it became the Broncos. Currently, I think there is more bad blood with the Broncos than any other team, but it isn't like it was when Elway was there and KC had, who... Elvis? Kainaw 6 July 2005 01:01 (UTC)

Team names

I agree with the 20xx-yy format for playoff games. Also, I feel that there should a format for team names. Over time, teams change cities and names. Because the team page is listed under the current name, it is often easier to use the current name instead of the name of the team when an event occured. For example, the KC Chiefs played their first game at Arrowhead against the StL Cardinals. If you used Arizona Cardinals, it would lose the information that both teams were from Missouri. If you just used St. Louis, someone might think it was the StL Rams. So, I feel that whenever a team name is used, it should be the team name at the time of the event, but link to the current team page (unless there are pages for the team in earlier forms). Kainaw 5 July 2005 19:58 (UTC)

• Oops, I forgot to mention that in the naming conventions because that is what I have been doing all along. Thanks. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 5 July 2005 21:45 (UTC)

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