Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 00:59, 20 January 2008

Help with Muhammad Ali Article

The Dushkagjin contributor keeps vandalizing the page with information which is not accurate. Also, his sources are old and they do not seem to be relevant. Perhaps you could contribute to the talk page of Muhammad Ali or find additional sources. Thanks. Azalea pomp 06:43, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Kosovo

Hey Taulant23. It's taken a lot of discussion on the Kosovo and Constitutional status of Kosovo pages to achieve a stable and neutral consensus. The fact is that Serbia remains sovereign until final status is resolved, whilst the UN provides administration. It is not 'under' Serbia as 'under' is not a meaningful or useful term. We'll stick with the neutral consensus for now; please don't start a revert war on this. DSuser 18:51, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that sounds good, Tualant23, or even 'Kosovo (Serbia) to the northeast'? DSuser 18:57, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Good with me. Nice one. DSuser 19:05, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Debate on the correct adjective for Kosovo

Hi! Based on your interest in the Balkans, you may be interested in the currently ongoing debate on whether we should be using Kosovo or Kosovar/Kosovan as the adjective for Kosovo. —Nightstallion 15:14, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Arvanites

shiko arvanitet dhe arkivat , tungjatjeta Dodona

WP:CVU status

The Misplaced Pages:Counter-Vandalism Unit project is under consideration to be moved to {{inactive}} and/or {{historical}} status. Another proposal is to delete or redirect the project. You have been identified as a project member and your input as to this matter would be welcomed at WT:CVU#Inactive.3F and at the deletion debate. Thank you! Delivered on behalf of xaosflux 17:45, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Albania merger

Hi, sorry to bother you. You are listed as a member of WikiProject Albania. That project was proposed to be merged with WikiProject Southern Europe as a taskforce. No replies from your project was heard but the merger has still not taken place. WikiProject Southern Europe is now taken over by the proposed WikiProject Europe - hence WikiProject Albania would become a taskforce of that Project. If you support or object to that please state them soon to me or on WP:SEUROPE's talk page. Thanks for your time. - J Logan : 20:20, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Images

Hi Taulant23, Can you clarify the copyright status for these images? Image:Stalin molotov hoxha.jpg and Image:EnverImageC.jpg‎. You assert you are the copyright owner but this seems unfeasible. I would appreciate if you select a more appropriate copyright tag, otherwise the images would be deleted. --Asterion 07:08, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Albanians are linked to Illyrians

In the dark and solemn days of the wondrous lands, which would later be called the Balkans, there existed two people. One, that would later be known as the Greek people, and the other, the men that would form the nation of Albania. For centuries these two cultures would have many periods of cultural exchange and of cultural strife.

Most of scholars and philologists alike contend that the modern Albanian language to be descended from Illyrian.

The Illyrian name is understood in the Albanian interpretation of the Illyrians, "Ilirët."

The root in "Ilirët" is "i lir" which simply means, "FREE." Thus, the meaning of "Ilirët" is "freemen" and the meaning of Illyria (long before America came into existence) is "land of the free."

Most historians of the Balkans believe the Albanian people are in large part descendants of the ancient Illyrians, who, like other Balkan peoples, were subdivided into tribes and clans. The name Albania is derived from the name of an Illyrian tribe called the Arbër, or Arbëresh, and later Albanoi, that lived near Durrës.Only Albanians preserve the Illyrian names ex; me my name is Taulant-Taulantët illyrians tribes, Genti,Bardhyl,Dori,Boiken,Bato etc etc so the question is How come Albanians are the only one to preserve this names and languange?

The most known Illyrian sign is the snake or dragons rolled or twisted, that Illyrians used in their shields & in their art.Dragons and snakes were worshiped by Illyrians, they still continue to exist until this day in Albanian mythology...

Slavic roots with Illyrian its a stupid argument,mixing oil with water,I never heard that slavs claiming Illyrians.One point its true, some did mix with Slavs, I am sure not everyone died or imigrated towards italy or southern Illyria. Serbs, Croats or other slavic people have their old history and I don't think they need Illyrians to prove that.

I don't like nationalist of any kind, its 2007 people, wake up, but to delete critical points that linked Albanians with Illyrians its wrong,shame on u people, it makes Misplaced Pages looks bad.

We know that the shadow of the ancient Greece was too strong/too close for the Illyrian Albanian civilization, but at least try to understand that not everyone who dresses Levis, listens to Rap or writes grafitti in English ... is an American........--Taulant23 22:42, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Albania

Listen Taulant23, I already explained on the discussion page of the Albania article how you are actually going against consensus. Elysonius and I both agree that you have not taken any time whatsoever to provide any sources in order to validate the content of the Pelasgians section that was removed. As for Elysonius's contributions to the article, I have already checked his edits and have found them very helpful. Why don't you take the time to actually see what Elysonius has done instead of assume that he removed more content?

As I have stated in the discussion page of the Albania article, the burden of proof is on your shoulders. Please provide sources to verify the content of the Pelasgians section. So far, you have not done anything to improve the article (except for putting in the picture of James Belushi). As I have said before, edit-warring and revert-warring accomplishes nothing. If you continue to be uncooperative (since you have not discussed why you continue to revert the article), then I will have to request that an administrator settle this altercation before it gets worse. Deucalionite 17:32, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to Misplaced Pages, and thank you for your contributions. One of the core policies of Misplaced Pages is that articles should always be written from a neutral point of view. It appears you have not followed this policy at Albania. Please always observe our core policies. {{#if:I don't think Pelasgian article should be deleted yet,even thought that article is been vandalized so many times that I think is better off.I am the one who put the Greeks Colonies-Hellenistic era " but in ur eyes I did only some small edits" so trust me I have no problem with the truth nor with Greeks.I don't like when people go and delete articles it's a slap in a face to those who worked hard for it. I would really preciate if Greeks won't delete anything in Albania's article nor do I go and delete stuff in Greek articles nor I vandalize them.

As Taulant I am not claiming anything, I am a scientist, I don't care too much about politics.Most Greeks I had met are good people but some facts and sources about Pelasgians are good to be brought up.Prove me wrong; than you can prove wrong the ancient Greek writers and Roman philosophers. Specially,Herodotus never linked Greeks with Pelasgians, next read the German or Italians authors like G . Catapano "Thot parlava Albanese" .. in Eng. "Thot spoke Albanian". Albanian languange is very old.

Another fact,Strabon book VII

τῶν μὲν οὖν Ἠπειρωτῶν ἔθνη φησὶν εἶναι Θεόπομπος

Now as for the Epeirotes, tribes of them, according to Theopompus

τῶν-{ton}---------toni(alb-gheg)~~ tani(alb-tosk)----now(eng) μὲν-{men]---------me(alb)-------with(eng) Ἠπειρωτῶν-{ipeiroton}----tribe name ἔθνη-{ethni}------ethni(alb)--------ethnic group(english) φησὶν-{fisin}------fisin(alb)--------the tribe(english) εἶναι-{enai}-------na(alb)----nga(alb)-----from(english) Θεόπομπος-Theopompus------person name

As you can see they are preserved in Albanian almost untouched.

Let see now ἔθνη-{ethni}------ethni(alb) It comes from the word etn(alb-gheg)___etër(alb-tosk)-----Fathers(english)

Let see the singular of "etën"

AT(alb)-----------father(eng)----vader(dutch)---pateras(new greek)------padre(it)------отец(russian)------padre(spanish)-----Vater(ger)-----patera(mycenian)

From the oldest(and primitive) form come the newest form. Albanian is the source.

Most of ancient Indo-European languages have already been divided into groups and sub-groups. Most part of them are exactly defined and related to other. The only area where discussions still continue is the problem with the so-called Paleo-Balkan languages.

Greek tribes were among the first to part from common Indo-European people and language. They arrived in Europe, as every scholar knows, in two waves - in XXII-XX and in XIII-XII centuries BC.The first Greek tribes came to Aegean peninsula not only from Asia Minor, but mainly from Balkans. Paleobalkan tribes left the original place in Central Asia or Asia Minor with the first wave of migrants, together with Greeks and Armenians. Armenians left in Asia Minor; Greeks went farther to Aegean peninsula.

Balkan tribes, let us call them Thraco-Illyro-Phrygians, settled on Balkan peninsula. It took place in the XXIIIth or the XXIIth century BC. Scientists believe it was the time of linguistic unity of all Balkan peoples. Later they divided into two groups: Thraco-Illyrian and Thraco-Phrygian, the first spread to all Balkan mountains, Illyria, Pannonia, Dacia and parts of Italy, the second existed in South-East Balkans and partly in Asia Minor. Modern Albanian means everything that left after the first group, whether it is the direct successor of Illyrian language or just related.

I assume a good faith and I hope we can help each other.Thank you--Taulant23 18:34, 5 September 2007 (UTC)|I don't think Pelasgian article should be deleted yet,even thought that article is been vandalized so many times that I think is better off.I am the one who put the Greeks Colonies-Hellenistic era " but in ur eyes I did only some small edits" so trust me I have no problem with the truth nor with Greeks.I don't like when people go and delete articles it's a slap in a face to those who worked hard for it. I would really preciate if Greeks won't delete anything in Albania's article nor do I go and delete stuff in Greek articles nor I vandalize them.

As Taulant I am not claiming anything, I am a scientist, I don't care too much about politics.Most Greeks I had met are good people but some facts and sources about Pelasgians are good to be brought up.Prove me wrong; than you can prove wrong the ancient Greek writers and Roman philosophers. Specially,Herodotus never linked Greeks with Pelasgians, next read the German or Italians authors like G . Catapano "Thot parlava Albanese" .. in Eng. "Thot spoke Albanian". Albanian languange is very old.

Another fact,Strabon book VII

τῶν μὲν οὖν Ἠπειρωτῶν ἔθνη φησὶν εἶναι Θεόπομπος

Now as for the Epeirotes, tribes of them, according to Theopompus

τῶν-{ton}---------toni(alb-gheg)~~ tani(alb-tosk)----now(eng) μὲν-{men]---------me(alb)-------with(eng) Ἠπειρωτῶν-{ipeiroton}----tribe name ἔθνη-{ethni}------ethni(alb)--------ethnic group(english) φησὶν-{fisin}------fisin(alb)--------the tribe(english) εἶναι-{enai}-------na(alb)----nga(alb)-----from(english) Θεόπομπος-Theopompus------person name

As you can see they are preserved in Albanian almost untouched.

Let see now ἔθνη-{ethni}------ethni(alb) It comes from the word etn(alb-gheg)___etër(alb-tosk)-----Fathers(english)

Let see the singular of "etën"

AT(alb)-----------father(eng)----vader(dutch)---pateras(new greek)------padre(it)------отец(russian)------padre(spanish)-----Vater(ger)-----patera(mycenian)

From the oldest(and primitive) form come the newest form. Albanian is the source.

Most of ancient Indo-European languages have already been divided into groups and sub-groups. Most part of them are exactly defined and related to other. The only area where discussions still continue is the problem with the so-called Paleo-Balkan languages.

Greek tribes were among the first to part from common Indo-European people and language. They arrived in Europe, as every scholar knows, in two waves - in XXII-XX and in XIII-XII centuries BC.The first Greek tribes came to Aegean peninsula not only from Asia Minor, but mainly from Balkans. Paleobalkan tribes left the original place in Central Asia or Asia Minor with the first wave of migrants, together with Greeks and Armenians. Armenians left in Asia Minor; Greeks went farther to Aegean peninsula.

Balkan tribes, let us call them Thraco-Illyro-Phrygians, settled on Balkan peninsula. It took place in the XXIIIth or the XXIIth century BC. Scientists believe it was the time of linguistic unity of all Balkan peoples. Later they divided into two groups: Thraco-Illyrian and Thraco-Phrygian, the first spread to all Balkan mountains, Illyria, Pannonia, Dacia and parts of Italy, the second existed in South-East Balkans and partly in Asia Minor. Modern Albanian means everything that left after the first group, whether it is the direct successor of Illyrian language or just related.

I assume a good faith and I hope we can help each other.Thank you--Taulant23 18:34, 5 September 2007 (UTC)|Thank you.}}

Okay. You provided your sources (I think). However, after having read everything you provided, the overall basis of your evidence seems mainly etymological. Also the ancient literature from both Greek and Roman times do recognize the Pelasgians as Greeks despite the confusion oftentimes found in the references themselves. I do not want you to think that I am "some nationalist Greek" bent on destroying every article written by Albanians. However, the difference between your evidence and the evidence I listed on the discussion page of the Albania article entails the former being mainly etymological and the latter being based on, more or less, a decent consensus pertaining to the identity of the Pelasgians. Besides, the article both Elysonius and I are trying to improve is strictly about Albania and not about the Pelasgians.

Here is a compromise I am sure you will like. How about taking your sources (full citations please not interpretations), list them at the Pelasgians talk page, and see if they can be placed in the "Modern theories" section so that NPOV is maintained. How does that sound? If you feel like doing the same thing at the Illyrians talk page, then do so and see where things go from there.

The evidence I provided on the discussion page should put to rest as to whether or not the Pelasgians section should remain in the Albania article. Again, I am providing to you an ancient consensus and not my "nationalist Greek interpretations." These are the words of the authors themselves so please take that much into consideration.

I know how much you hate having people delete things on Albania-related articles. I don't blame you for being self-defensive. However, the Albania article needs to be rid of the Pelasgians section (not the Antiquities section since I know it has room for improvement) since that would help increase its chances of reaching GA status or even FA status if a lot of work is poured into it.

Here is my evidence so that you do not think I am lying to you.

• Dionysius of Halicarnassus - Afterwards some of the Pelasgians who inhabited Thessaly, as it is now called, being obliged to leave their country, settled among the Aborigines and jointly with them made war upon the Sicels. It is possible that the Aborigines received them partly in the hope of gaining their assistance, but I believe it was chiefly on account of their kinship; for the Pelasgians, too, were a Greek nation originally from the Peloponnesus.

• Herodotus - The Hellenic race has never, since its first origin, changed its speech. This at least seems evident to me. It was a branch of the Pelasgic, which separated from the main body, and at first was scanty in numbers and of little power; but it gradually spread and increased to a multitude of nations, chiefly by the voluntary entrance into its ranks of numerous tribes of barbarians. The Pelasgi, on the other hand, were, as I think, a barbarian race which never greatly multiplied.

• Strabo - As for the Pelasgi, almost all agree, in the first place, that some ancient tribe of that name spread throughout the whole of Greece, and particularly among the Aeolians of Thessaly...Again, Aeschylus, in his Suppliants, or else his Danaan Women, says that the race of the Pelasgi originated in that Argos which is round about Mycenae. And the Peloponnesus too, according to Ephorus, was called "Pelasgia."

• Ovid - Here, when a sacrifice had been prepared to Jove, according to the custom of their land, and when the ancient altar glowed with fire, the Greeks observed an azure colored snake crawling up in a plane tree near the place where they had just begun their sacrifice..."Rejoice Pelasgian men, for we shall conquer; Troy will fall; although the toil of war must long continue--so the nine birds equal nine long years of war." And while he prophesied, the serpent, coiled about the tree, was transformed to a stone, curled crooked as a snake.

Just because Herodotus called the Pelasgians "barbarians" does not immediately mean that they were "non-Greek." In all honesty, being a "barbarian" also meant being an "unsophisticated Greek."

The Albania article (with Elysonius's contributions) looks a lot better than before. I am not saying this to make you think that your contributions were meaningless. It is just that the Pelasgians section just doesn't fit in an article that you know has a lot of potential in becoming better than it ever was before.

Trust me. I have been on Misplaced Pages long enough and know what it's like to defend your articles and contributions with sharpened teeth. So, please do not think ill of me for having removed the Pelasgians section from the article. Thank you for your cooperation and I wish you the best in all of your endeavors. Deucalionite 19:03, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your answer and ur honest work. Πελασγοί are really a big mystery because in some Greek historical works they make it clear that many ancient settlers of the Aegean came from Africa, especially the Garamantes and Pelasgians.

For example, Parker (1917, 1918) used anthropological, archaeological, historical and classical sources to prove that blacks once lived in the Aegean. Parker (1917, 1918) used the Greek classics to prove that the Pelasgians were of African origin. He also discussed the origin stories about the Pelasgic founders of selected Grecian cities and proved that these men were blacks and not Indo-Europeans.

Search or check this theory too, The Black Greeks

In Homer The ethnonym (Πελασγοί- Pelasgoí, s. Pelasgós)Pelasgoí (Pelasgians) in Greek is of unknown etymology but in Albanian the word Pelasgoi or Pelasgians its used and means stream water,people who came from water, Pelg is used even today from Albanians.

As Donald A. Mackenzie, wrote in 1917:

"Before these Hellenic invaders entered into possession of the country it had been divided between various 'barbarous tribes', including the Pelasgi and their congeners the Caucones and Leleges. Thirlwall, among others, expressed the view 'that the name Pelasgians was a general one, like that of Saxons, Franks, or Alemanni, and that each of the Pelasgian tribes had also one peculiar to itself".

The French author Zacharie Mayani (1899 – ) put forth a thesis that the Etruscan language had links to the Albanian language. This thesis places the Albanian language outside the group of Indo-European languages sharing one branch with Etruscans as well as ancient Greek. Nermin Vlora Falaschi published a translation of the Lemnos stele on this basis, with the help of Arvanite Albanian. The idea was supported by Falaschi, Catapano, Marchiano, Mathieu Aref, Faverial, D'Angely, Kolias, and Cabej support this point of view.

Well thank you again.--Taulant23 19:30, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I do agree that for modern scholars the Pelasgians are a mystery. However, it is difficult to accept the arguments provided by "The Black Greeks" since the Pelasgians lived "from time immemorial" up until at least the 5th century BC and have been recorded to have existed by authors such as Herodotus. If the Pelasgians were supposedly an African population, then why does Herodotus or any other Greek author not mention this? The ancient authors of classical times were not perfect, but they did show levels of thoroughness in terms of describing various population groups. Moreover, if the Pelasgians were Africans, then are we to assume that the Albanians are Africans too if you believe there is a Pelasgian-Albanian connection?

Also, the theories you have chosen are very interesting, but are not the only ones available. The Pelasgians article shows all of the modern theories dating back to at least the 19th century. There are currently multiple theories pertaining to the Pelasgians as either "Indo-Europeans" or "non-Indo-Europeans." So, it is difficult to merely assign specific Pelasgian theories to the Albania article when those theories can be easily challenged by other theorists whose works are also derived from etymological and/or archaeological evidence.

All I know is that the ancient authors were closest to the Pelasgians than any modern theorist. That is why I trust their word even if scientists today need to validate the literature in order to ensure that the historical record is not distorted.

Listen, the sources you have provided do not belong in the Pelasgians section of the Albania article, because they are "cherry-picked" from the Pelasgians article. I am sorry my friend, but there is just no definitive (meaning compelling and conclusive) proof that links the Pelasgians with the Albanians. The ancient Greek and Roman authors stated almost unanimously that the Pelasgians were Greeks. That is the best definitive proof available until there is a strong and unanimous consensus within modern academic communities pertaining to the origins of the Pelasgians. For the time being, there are only "modern theories" and those theories are all mentioned in the Pelasgians article.

Look Taulant23. I know how much you want to make Albania proud by providing evidence that the Pelasgians once resided in your country. However, there is currently more evidence proving the Pelasgians to be Greeks rather than Albanians. If the opposite were true, then I would not hinder you from placing sourced content on the Albania article.

I am happy to know that you are willing to discuss everything with me about the Pelasgians. I have done extensive research on the topic and find it difficult to accommodate all of the modern theories presented on the Pelasgians article. Some of the theories, as you know, are completely wrong (i.e. Polat Kaya) regardless if they are based on archaeological and/or etymological analyses. Misinterpretations of evidence do occur in academia.

I know how much you do not like me removing the Pelasgians section from the Albania article. However, I am just not convinced that the Pelasgians section belongs in the Albania article. I think that everything you seek about the Pelasgians and their supposed connections with the Albanians will be found at the Pelasgians article.

The Albania article is strictly about Albania. Adding specific modern theories about the Pelasgians into the Albania article would only compel other users to add other modern theories that would contradict and challenge the ones you have chosen to place in the Pelasgians section. See where I am going with this?

Listen, I am not removing the Pelasgians section of the Albania article to spite you. If I did, then we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. We would be wasting our days edit-warring and revert-warring without reason or direction.

I think that both of us should just agree to have the Pelasgians section removed and contribute all of our scientific research into the Antiquities section, which I find to be absolutely fascinating. In that section, archaeological evidence can be taken into a more serious light. From there, you can derive from archaeological data information pertaining to the origins of the Albanians or whatever populations existed in Albania during historical and prehistoric times. Sound good? Deucalionite 20:56, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Pelasgians

The Bronze Age is characterized with shifting demographics. Stockbreeding people came from the east around the mid 3000s BC to the early 2000s BC. This population is believed to be the ancient Pelasgians, which have been mentioned frequently by ancient writers such as Homer, Herodotus, and Thucydides. The differentiation of populations by ethnicity began during the Bronze Age. Herodotus, an ancient Greek historian in the fifth century BC, writes about the Pelasgians that continued to live in Greece. Ancient writers' references to the Pelasgians are confusing, however, with some stating that Pelasgians had spoken a "barbaric" or "non Hellenic” language, while others maintained that they were Greek-speaking. The Pelasgians are known as the most ancient inhabitants of the Balkan Peninsula, living before Illyrian or Greek times. From their first appearance in the region, the Pelasgians used a matriarchal system.

Many different opinions have been given when it comes to their ethnic make up. A more concrete evidence of the Illyrian-Pelasgian origin of the Albanians is supplied by the study of the Albanian language. Notwithstanding certain points of resemblance in structure and phonetics, the Albanian language is entirely distinct from the tongues spoken by the neighboring natonalities.This language is particularly interesting as the only surviving representative of the so-called Thraco-Ilyrian group of languages, which formed the primitive speech of the inhabitants of the Balkan Peninsula.

The French author Zacharie Mayani (1899 – ) put forth a thesis that the Etruscan language had links to the Albanian language. This thesis places the Albanian language outside the group of Indo-European languages sharing one branch with Etruscans as well as ancient Greek. Nermin Vlora Falaschi published a translation of the Lemnos stele on this basis, with the help of Arvanite Albanian. The references below by Falaschi, Catapano, Marchiano, Mathieu Aref, Faverial, D'Angely, Kolias, and Cabej support this point of view. From the 17 th century, specifically from the Albanian Rilindja (Rebirth), the theory that the Pelasgian language is connected with Albanian is dominant among Albanian and foreign researchers.

There is, however, a very striking feature in this whole matter: that the Albanian language affords the only available means for a rational explanation of the meaning of the names of the ancient Greek gods as well as the rest of the mythological creations, so as exactly to correspond with the characteristics attributed to these deitis by the men of those times. The explanations are so convincing as to confirm the opinion that the ancient Greek mythology had been borrowed, in its entirety, from the Ilyrian-Pelasgians. As it was mentioned before, Zeus survives as "Zot" in the Albanian language. The invocation of his name is the common form of oath among the modern Albanians. Athena (the Latin Minerva), the goddess of wisdom as expressed in speech, would evidently owe its derivation to the Albanian "E Thëna," which simply means "speech." Thetis, the goddess of waters and seas, would seem to be but Albanian "Det" which means "sea." It would be interesting to note that the word "Ulysses,"whether in its Latin or Greek form "Odysseus," means "traveler" in the Albanian language, according as the word "udhë," which stands for "route" and "travel," is written with "d" or "l," both forms being in use in Albania.

Such examples may be supplied and libitum. No such facility is, however, afforded by the ancient Greek language, unless the explanation be forced and distorted one but in many instances even such forced and distorted one is not available at all. It is estimated that of the actual stock of the Albanian language, more than one third is of undisputed Ilyrian origin, and the rest are Ilyrian-Pelasgian, ancient Greek and Latin, with a small admixture of Slavic, Italian (dating from the Venetian occupation of the seaboard) and some Celtic words, too.The most active supporter of this theory was Austrian linguist Hahn who attempted to connect the pre-Indo-European Pelasgian language with Albanian. Today, however, Albanian is universally classified as an Indo-European language by linguists. See Origin of the Albanians for a discussion of the theories surrounding the origin of the Albanians and the Albanian language. --Taulant23 19:47, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Giving up already?

I am going to try to reason with you once more before you decide to make any unnecessary moves.

First things first. What I do on my blog (currently inactive) and what I do on Misplaced Pages are not the same since the rules on both the Blogosphere and Misplaced Pages are completely different. So, doing a Google search on me and finding out that I have a Greek bias should not surprise you. I have already stated on my Misplaced Pages userpage the fact that I have a Greek bias. The real question one has to ask is whether one's bias is based on reality or based on just theories. I expected that you already knew I had a Greek bias just as I expected that you would express an Albanian bias. Please don't deny that you have an Albanian bias because the majority of the "sources" and edits you have placed on the Pelasgians section of the Albania article were cherry-picked modern theories from the Pelasgians article.

Despite our respective biases, you need to at least take into consideration the fact that placing the Pelasgians section in the Albania article without definitive proof to support a Pelasgian-Albanian connection is not helping your position. The Pelasgians article is currently neutral in that its modern theories section contains all of the Albanian-related theories that you currently support. Theories are just theories without definitive proof since one theory can be replaced by another over time. So, placing Albanian-related modern theories in the Pelasgians section of the Albania article does not help improve the overall article. It actually makes it worse.

Like I said before, it is better that we agree to remove the Pelasgians section and work together on the Antiquities section where will be working with direct and solid archaeological evidence rather than with theories. Besides, I already told you that there is currently more evidence proving the Pelasgians as Greeks rather than as Albanians. So, if you want to balance the playing field, then you need to work with things that will generate solid proof of a potential Pelasgian-Albanian connection. Do you understand?

I know how much you want the Albanians to be descended from the Pelasgians so that your country can inherit an illustrious past. If you want to achieve even a semblance of this dream, then the least you could do is work within the confines of the Antiquities section and more importantly within the realm of direct evidence, not just theories.

If you want to give up now my friend, then go ahead. You trusted me out of good faith and I trusted you out of good faith. To destroy all this because I am a Greek nationalist is pointless. Did I ever say that I would not speak to you or work with you because you have an Albanian bias? No. If I were an "evil Greek nationalist," would I even bother to talk to you or even try to reason with you?

If you want to report me to 3RR, then you will be accomplishing nothing since you have gone against the consensus developed between myself and Elysonius about the Pelasgians section of the Albania article. If you want to report me for vandalism, then you will also be accomplishing nothing since the recent edits made so far by Elysonius and I have improved the overall quality of the Albania article. If you want to ban me yourself, then you will still accomplish nothing since I have been banned multiple times and I am still here making positive contributions on Misplaced Pages. If anything, you were the one who first violated 3RR against consensus. However, I did not want to report you (I don't know what Elysonius did) because I wanted to reason with you. If I was a Greek nationalist, then would I have even bothered to remain on speaking terms with you? Think about it.

I may not be the perfect user, but I at least do my part to make something better. If you still assume that I reverted the Albania article just to upset you, then you are simply wrong. If you all you see in me is my blog, then why bother even engaging in debate with me if I am, supposedly, an "evil Greek nationalist" and you are an "innocent Albanian scientist"? I may have a Greek bias, but I try to be as reasonable as possible. There is no reason to argue about anything if nothing gets accomplished.

Despite what you think, I am trying to help you. Yes, you have wonderful ideas about the Pelasgians and the connections they have with the Albanians. Yes, you want to defend your ideas against "evil Greek nationalists" or whoever. However, all I have been trying to tell you was that your ideas have already been valued at the Pelasgians article in the modern theories section. Do you understand?

No one is going to take away your ideas and sources pertaining to the Pelasgians and their supposed links with the Albanians. However, the Albania article is not the place to express those ideas, because it is an article about a country and not about the Pelasgians. Do you understand? I will give you some time to respond to this message. If your answer is positive and you agree to remove the Pelasgians section and work with me on the Antiquities section, then we can really make the Albania article something that all Albanians can take pride in. If your answer, however, is negative, then I will have to take other measures to settle this dispute before it gets worse.

Take some time and think about it. I'll be waiting for your response. Deucalionite 13:42, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Well I am doing a test, if the article does not get removed in Pelasgian it might be a good idea to remove it from Albania. Pelasgian has been in Albanians article for a long time, even before u had a account in Misplaced Pages. Removing because some Greek nationalist who claim Pelasgian, does not work here in Misplaced Pages, that it is wrong.

Prove me wrong than there is no link between the languages than we can talk. By the way What Pelasgian means in Greek?

In ur blog u declare:” three laws of Hellenism: omaimon (same blood, No we don’t have the same blood), omoglosson (same language,)--I wish to talk Greek like my brother does--, omothriskon (same religion, Yes)" its sounds like a Nazi propaganda, I don’t think I pass ur nationalist test. So should I say since I am white, tall, blue eyes, blond, that Greeks are inferior to me since they have dark skinned??? Some of u Greeks claims everything, to be bad I don’t like that racist crap. I can see u are a proud Greek so am I, a proud Albania, there is nothing wrong with that but to hear the ideas, sources, material of other people is pretty sweet deal here in Misplaced Pages.Thank you and I have faith in you.--Taulant23 22:07, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Did you just imply that Deucalionite is a Nazi? I can't believe this. After all this time that Deucalionite has tried to reason with you. What is wrong with you Taulant23? You have been uncivil for too long. You have not been very cooperative with Deucalionite and all you have done is continue to digress from actually improving the Albania article by talking about Deucalionite's blog. I am afraid that I will be the one to report you to an administrator. Good-bye. Elysonius 03:00, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

His blog sounds like a Nazi propaganda"three laws of Hellenism: omaimon (same blood), omoglosson (same language,) omothriskon (same religion,)" and yes I will tell u again its sounds like a SS propaganda.That's my opinion.--Taulant23 04:09, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

This situation has been brought to my attention. I am not an expert on this subject, but from the brief look I have had at the issues, I will say that any assertions about the ethnic heritage of Albanians, or any group, need to be supported by sources about well-known theories. Also, referring to another user as a Nazi because of a dispute like this is very serious. Since the dispute is not going on this minute, I will not take any actions, but I will be back tomorrow to monitor what has happened. Academic Challenger 03:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Read all the my answer first, you can read his blog http://hellenicempire.blogspot.com/ and after send me a email what you think.By deleting article and reverting them what do u think I should think? Why people need to hide some sources which there is plenty?Books are out there and Why are they afraid of?

Other sources that support the Etruscan and Pelasgian connection with Albanians:

Nermin Vlora Falaschi. L'Etrusco lingua viva Roma : Bardi, 1989

http://www.azetalibri.it/main/product.asp?sku=898173&idaff=0

Giuseppe Catapano. Thot Parlava Albanese Roma : Bardi, 1988

Marchiano Stanislao. I Pelasgi e la loro lingua (1888)

Mathieu Aref. Albanie ou l'incroyable odyssée d'un peuple préhellénique (2003)

http://www.amazon.fr/Albanie-Histoire-Langue-lincroyable-pr%C3%A9hell%C3%A9nique/dp/2951992106/ref=sr_1_5/402-2596869-0530502?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177613835&sr=1-5

Aristeidē P. Kollia. "Arvanites kai hē katagōgē tōn Hellēnōn : historikē, laographikē, politistikē, glōssologikē episkopisē , Athens : , 1985,

Auteur : ANGELY ROBERT D' Livre : LES PELASGES Edité par Cismonte e pumonti - Paru en 1990

http://auteurs.chapitre.com/page2/section85.html

I am sure he is a smart guy and he knows they I don't like nationalist in 07 but I give him credit, his is a proud Hellas " he takes it a little far" but not a vandal in my books.Just has different ideas which I do understand and respect too" I bet I am the only Albanian who do :) ". Thank you!--Taulant23 04:07, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Review III (Pelasgians section in Albania article)

Listen Taulant23, you need to stop focusing on my blog and start focusing on how to improve the Albania article. Implying that my blog contains "Nazi propaganda" because you are unaware of the concepts of omaimon, omoglosson, and omothriskon is absolutely unnecessary. Besides, the "three laws of Hellenism" that I describe on my blog are all derived from Herodotus (see Greeks) and not from Nazi ideology. So, I find it very offensive that you would actually call my blog "Nazi propaganda" and in turn implicitly insult me for being a "Nazi" just because I believe in something my ancestors actually developed many centuries before the rise of Nazism in Germany. You really need to learn history if you ever want people to take you seriously. So, I kindly recommend that you maintain civility while you are here at Misplaced Pages. Using terms like "Nazi" indiscriminately will put you in a lot of trouble. Period. You don't have to apologize to me, but you need to keep your comments to yourself. Understood?

No more digressions about my blog. Let's focus on the Albania article if you still care about making contributions here. I reviewed the extra additions you made to the Pelasgians section. You can read everything at the Albania discussion page.

Please understand that even though Misplaced Pages wants new contributors to bring in fresh ideas, those ideas need to be put to the test so that everyone else can understand where you are coming from. Just so you know, a user by the name of 3rdAlcove removed the extra additions you made to the Pelasgians section before I finished with my review. However, I must be honest in saying that 3rdAlcove did the right thing since the majority of the content you have provided Taulant23 did not help improve the Albania article.

My offer still stands. If you want to work with me on the Antiquities section, then we should both agree that the Pelasgians section is only holding back the Albania article from being improved upon. However, if you decide to continue focusing on my blog instead of the Albania article, then there is really no point in discussing with you anything. Do you understand?

Please refrain in your response from using insults (whether implicit or explicit) and anything that can be construed as unnecessary behavior. Okay? Deucalionite 16:05, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Well Deucalionite, I took of the Illyrian Pelasgian case and put it on to Pelasgian.It was deleted after 2 hours ;) so here u go, Its no way that Greeks will hear another side of the story "it can be wrong too". By deleting it, they only make this case worsen, cuz people would think that's a true theory, why they need to hide it. I am tired of Greek hating Albanians and vice versa but some facts why they need to be deleted, why?

That ur blog sound like a little bit ss propaganda its true come on :), that's why some Greeks got mad when Αλέξανδρος hired Albanian-Illyrians or when he hired Persians to find in India, they are not Greek, hehehehe.Its true,the half Greeks actually in my books are the most brave soldiers,they fought for Greece and died for Greece,like Boçari etc. Have a good day, I am taking a break, don't be a nationalist Greek :) but a proud patriot who respects everyone and even his enemies like Alexandros did.--Taulant23 18:11, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Listen to me Taulant23. Could you please explain what my reviews of the edits you have placed in the Albania article have anything to do with me "hating Albanians"? I mean honestly. I explained to you everything in a very respectful and reasonable manner. If you still believe that some Greek-inspired conspiracy-based cabal is preventing you from disseminating your ideas, then obviously you are ignoring the fact that you need to provide strong arguments with strong evidence in order for users to accept your ideas. That is how things work here.

Do you honestly believe that you are the only one who has been shot down for disseminating ideas that others did not agree with? Join the club. I could tell you stories left and right about how users ripped on me for my ideas when I first started editing on Misplaced Pages. Yet, I am still here contributing despite the hell I've been through. What's your excuse?

As for my blog, again, I am not going to repeat myself. There is no SS propaganda on my blog. For you to even assume that kind of nonsense obviously proves that you haven't even checked my blog. Besides, my blog is about geopolitics, nation-states, empires, history, etc. (despite the obvious Greek bias involved). If you care to read what I wrote on my blog, then take your ideas and opinions about my blog to my blog. Not here. Don't digress about what I do on the Blogosphere here, because what I do there is not the same as what I do here. This is the last time I am going to tell you to stop digressing in our discussions about what I do on my blog. And stop talking about half-Greeks when such a topic has no relevance in what you are supposed to be doing in terms of proving to everyone else the validity of your arguments about a Pelasgian-Albanian connection.

Enjoy your break. Deucalionite 18:30, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

P.S. I forgot. Pelasgos means "sea" in Greek (pelagos). Of course, I read somewhere else that Pelasgos means "bird" in Greek (pelargos). I'd go with the former rather than the latter. Deucalionite 18:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Pelasgos = sea ???!!! First I thought that sea = thalassa Secondly, what is the relation between Pelasgians and the sea, why they were calling themselves or the others called them sea???!!! And third, by this logic Pelasgos = Pellg (Pool or lake) in Albanian:) And fourth, are you still sure about that translation??? Best regards Aigest (talk) 16:15, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:Dritandovolani.jpg

An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:Dritandovolani.jpg, has been listed at Misplaced Pages:Possibly unfree images because its copyright status is disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the image description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at the discussion if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Calliopejen1 03:45, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your fast reply! Sorry, but since the TV show is copyrighted, even if you took the screenshot yourself it is still a nonfree image. According to wikipedia's nonfree image policy, we do not accept nonfree images of living people because we consider them to be replaceable. In this case, we already have one free image that shows what he looks like, and it is possible that another wikipedian can go to one of his performances to take a free picture of him dancing, as well. I hope you understand why the picture will have to be deleted... Sorry! Calliopejen1 04:36, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Its not a big problem,since the TV show is copyrighted I guess its not a free image.Thank you was good to know!--Taulant23 23:48, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Pyrros Dimas

Hi, the fact that Pyrros was born in Albania is mentioned in the article; I simply provided a source that mentions his greek ancestry. 3rdAlcove 07:48, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I don't think it's "bad". I suppose we can leave it since he lived there for a good while. 3rdAlcove 19:53, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Rosalind Franklin image

Hi there, unfortunately that image is copyrighted and the fair-use rationale only covers the Rosalind Franklin article. Is there a uncopyrighted version we could use instead? Tim Vickers 04:41, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

An alternative is to re-write the rationale to cover the DNA article as well, but that might not be allowed. Tim Vickers 05:03, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:76lv1.jpg

An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:76lv1.jpg, has been listed at Misplaced Pages:Possibly unfree images because its copyright status is disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the image description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at the discussion if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Liftarn 14:00, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use Image:Dritandovolani.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Dritandovolani.jpg. I noticed the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Misplaced Pages articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:

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2. On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

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If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our fair use criteria. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on this link. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, fair use images which could be replaced by free-licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if not used in an article), per our Fair Use policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Angus McLellan (Talk) 20:31, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Ndihmë?

Po ti e ke mbrojtur vetëm faqen e Historisë së Shqipërisë?! Bravo të qoftë, seriozisht. E pashë që të kishin bërë gjithë ato sulme të pamerituara. Mua më ke gati për ndihmë për çdo artikull që ka lidhje me Shqipërinë. Për çfarë ke nevojë? Gjithë të mirat edhe njëherë të lumtë. Aigest (talk) 09:13, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Faleminderit plako,prania jote këtu dhe ndihma jote në Misplaced Pages më bën qefin sa mali,ta them me serjozitet pasi Grekët po na shkruajnë historinë tani!!--Taulant23 (talk) 09:19, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Meqë po shikoj faqen e Shqipërisë tani, po shoh se disa gjëra nuk shkojnë. Psh ajo foto me ushtarët Ilirë është foto e një legjioni romak në Iliri. Armatura e të gjitha janë romake. Për imazh të ushtarëve ilirë është basorelievi i zbuluar në Pogradec, ku luftëtari Ilir është duke luftuar me Maqedonsit dhe mbrapa ka hyun mbrojtës të gjarprit. Do shikoj mos e gjej në ndonjë vend si foto, përndryshe duhet skanuar nga libri që kam, po do dalë me cilësi të ulët. Aigest (talk) 09:32, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Gjithashtu mund të them që ka një punim të një autori Shqiptar (në vitet 80') i cili e lidh fisin e Albanëve me fisin ilir Parthin dhe qytetin Albanopolis me qytetin Parthinoi që ndodheshin në të njëjtën zonë. Ky fis ilir dhe ky qytet janë përmendur më herët në burimet antike greke. Këtu Ptolemeu thjesht ka bërë përkthimin Parth-Bardh-Alba, gjë që ka ndodhur shpesh me historianët e gjeografet e asaj periudhe. Lokalizimi nga arkeologet tanë i këtij qyteti është bërë dhe sipas tyre ndodhet ne Zgërdhesh të Krujës. Nuk duhet harruar që po kjo zonë më vonë është referuar me vonë si Albania, pra zona e Krujës. Aigest (talk) 09:42, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Gjithashtu mund të them që nuk është pasqyruar mirë periudha e perandorisë Bizantine në Shqipëri. E njeh këtë link? Mendoj se është shumë i mirë për të pasqyruar historinë e Shqipërisë. Referencat mund të merren nga botimi i Akademisë së Shkencave të Shqipërisë. Si thua? Aigest (talk) 10:47, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Në rregull. Unë jam në Shqipëri dhe ora është pothuaj 1 e drekës këndej. Do mundohem të gjej sa më shumë referenca dhe foto e mund t'i dërgoj dhe me e-mail. Gjithsesi adresa ime është endritafani@gmail.com Gjumë të ëmbël:) Aigest (talk) 11:40, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Faleminderit për komplimentat, gjithashtu mendoj që ti ke bërë një punë të shkëlqyer deri tani duke patur parasysh që ke qënë vetëm. Për artikullin mendoj që nuk duhet të tërhiqemi aspak nga ajo që është e dokumentuar dhe e vërtetuar. Aigest (talk) 12:25, 23 November 2007 (UTC) Si je me Italishten ti? Sepse mund të përdorim ca materiale në Italisht. Aigest (talk) 08:08, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Shihe njëherë këtë linkun ] dhe pastaj hajde e fol me këta po deshe:))). I bie që çfarë është thënë deri tani, duhet riparë në kuadër të të dhënave të ADN, sepse ADN është shkencë dhe jo pallavra. Kuptohet jo gjithë historia, po të paktën disa gjëra. Aigest (talk) 09:22, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Shihe njëherë ] mbase të intereson. Shnet Aigest (talk) 15:20, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Desha të pyes nëse në atë shkrimin aty për historinë e Shqipërisë ke ndërmend ose jo të shkruash më tepër për periudhen osmane. Psh Shqiptarët si mercenarë (Stradiotët), Kuvendi i Kuçit, Kryengritjet, Pashallëqet, Revolucioni Grek, Tanzimati, Rilindja Kombëtare, Lidhja e Prizrenit, Kongresi i Manastirit, Kryengritjet 1909-10-11-12 (Shpallja e Pavarsisë). Gjithashtu dhe tema si, ndryshimi i fesë, marrëdhëniet midis tyre, arti, shkenca, figura të mesjetës dhe të mëvonshme( Leonik Tomeo, Bogdani, Arkitekt Sinani, etj.) Aigest (talk) 09:17, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

PIRRO BURRI

Since the main Helenic tribes were our tribes my opinion is that it is much ours in what was consider Hellenistic period. Since that you discover yourselves that Doret were pelasgians tribes so were the Epiriotes and Macedonian and also what is to day Thesssalia. We must get to the same opinion ( Kola opinion) that Hellenes are nothing else but our ancestors. Albanian language is the oldest language of Greeks and base for ancent greek. The other point I will agree that there are incoming population in Greece as this interesting abstract says http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11260506&dopt=AbstractPlus

All their trick which they are more Greeks with Arvanite background is to exclude any connection between ancients Greeks and our race. Do not forget how much they profit from their history. In today Greece Albanian or originally Albanians makes the most population from other races , that’s what they are afraid that everything will get out of the control and the base is the history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PIRRO BURRI (talk • contribs) 09:29, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Vandalising my maps and edits.

My maps are sourced .Don't vandalize please.Megistias (talk) 16:04, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Vandalize? By puting ur maps u gone create more confusion! Thank you.--Taulant23 (talk) 20:00, 9 January 2008 (UTC)p.s. plz edited the Greek articles,leave Albania and the nationalist ideas where the south of Albania is Greek.Its 2008,grow up.

Wiki is about history and sources.Epirotes were Greek Megistias (talk) 20:02, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't want to loose my time again arguing with your nonsense words,as I said before,Grow UP kid! Albania is an independent state and it always will be,I guarante you--Taulant23 (talk) 20:08, 9 January 2008 (UTC) About an apology??? It's been almost a year and u still keep adding fuel to the fire; I just watch amazed how childish a "graduated" Greek can go by vandalizing the history of Albania. Why loosing your time here when the nationalist government of Greece has done that already. Epirus is Greek? What's in your mind kid? Epirus was never Greek to start with. Epirus is just a geographical notion used by Greek Islanders to describe the land in front of them. It simply means Land in Continent. It has no ethnical connotations at all. The fact that he never attacked any of the Illyrian kingdoms tells you he was not Greek. Epirus was just another Illyrian land.--Taulant23 (talk) 20:27, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Please apologise.You only insult and insist while backing your views on your stubborness rather than secondary sources that wiki requires.Insistance is not a secondary source.Megistias (talk) 20:55, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

please forgive me for opening ur mind,please forgive me for telling you the truth,please forgive me that my elders spoke and were Albanians. Πλέον έχω καταλάβει πως, υπάρχουν μερικοί άνθρωποι που αντί για μυαλό, έχουν στο κεφάλι τους σκατά! Και δεν κάνω καθόλου πλάκα.Αποχαιρετισμός or as in Albanian Lamtumirë Malaka!--Taulant23 (talk) 21:14, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Strong warning against personal attacks of the kind just above. Please stop that. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:28, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

huh? --Taulant23 (talk) 23:11, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Apologise please Taulant.You write that i have shit in my head and that i am Malakas among other things.Megistias (talk) 23:23, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I guess u don't know Greek cuz it took u forever to translate,second if u read carefully does not say anything about u..--Taulant23 (talk) 23:25, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

FuturePerfect get some Greek to translate or use babelfish.Taulant is lying out of his teeth.Megistias (talk) 23:37, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Τι λες μωρέ μπάμπελφις μάμπελφις; Μέχρι αυτό το επίπεδο τα καταλαβαίνω και μόνος μου... The two of you need to leave each other alone, now. Fut.Perf. ☼ 00:09, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Albania, Holocaust

You are in danger of violating the three-revert rule on Albania. Please cease further reverts or you may be blocked from editing. Dylansmrjones (talk) 23:51, 11 January 2008 (UTC) Plz newbiiee don't come here with your act trying to show off,plz.There are references in that article,change the sentences if you have strong references--Taulant23 (talk) 23:58, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

You forgot to indent your reply. And please stop your personal attacks. Please understand this: Nobody is denying the safety of jews in occupied Albania during WWII. The problem is primarily omission of facts and a blatant pro-albanian bias which does not belong in Misplaced Pages. It is the neutrality and NOT the factuality which is disputed. So the sources are not the primary problem. It is the wording. Please understand that instead of harassing other wikipedians. And btw. I'm not a newbie. I've been here for several years - without creating havoc. Dylansmrjones (talk) 00:16, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

For your persistent aggressive behaviour, both in edit-warring and in attacking other editors, I have blocked you for 31h. Fut.Perf. ☼ 00:26, 12 January 2008 (UTC) I would really preciate if Greeks won't delete anything in Albania articles or making our history theirs nor do I go and delete stuff in Greek or vandalize their articles.Blocking me, does not change anything but proving what side you in.Don't forget that out there,is always a bigger fish than you.Thank you--Taulant23 (talk) 18:28, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use Image:Pirrodhima.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Pirrodhima.jpg. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Misplaced Pages articles fails our first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:

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2. On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

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Note that this picture was linked as a copyright violation at Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard#Free_image_copyright_infringement, you might want to voice your opinion there. Thanks! -- lucasbfr 13:42, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm having a closer look at your uploads...

... And I'm puzzled by some of the licenses you added:

• Image:Emblemashqip.gif GIF emblema GFDL-self
• Image:AlbaniaB.jpg GFDL-self but credited to Reuters
• Image:Valljaeburrave8lo.png GFDL-self
• Image:Ushtriajone.jpg GFDL-self but army web sized
  • Image:20061007150636 album.jpg GFDL-self army again
  • Image:Albanarmy23.jpg army
  • Image:461nk.jpg army
• Image:Tony Dovolani.jpg GFDL-self, looks like a screen cap
• Image:EnverImageC.jpg old photograph, GFDL self
• Image:Kingzog1.jpg old photograph, GFDL self
• Image:Shqiperi1944.jpg old photograph, GFDL self
• Image:Illyricum.gif GFDL self

I'm going to be blunt: did you take all these photographs yourself (with your camera) and do you hold the copyright? A lot of them look like they have been taken from the Internet and mistagged. I'm not saying that you mean evil, but we unfortunately can't accept pictures that are not properly licensed and free to use. Most pictures found on the Internet are copyrighted. -- lucasbfr 13:54, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Some info on this pic too.*Image:Bato-1.jpgGFDL-self-no-disclaimersMegistias (talk) 16:05, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I took that in the museum of Albania!--Taulant23 (talk) 18:28, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Then please provide the as much details as possible on the museum and the statue.ThankouMegistias (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 18:29, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

hahahahaha dude go get a real job! how old are u? come on,its geting stupid!!!--Taulant23 (talk) 18:38, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

This is getting stupid indeed. Taulant, since you refuse to cooperate, you are now banned, until further notice, from making any further image uploads on Misplaced Pages. Messing around with images will result in a lengthy block. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:42, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

you are now banned?that sounds stupid indeed,lol banned for what, for saying what I think?free speech my friend, free speech,Megistias is a uneducated vandal, has changed everythink to a war page.--Taulant23 (talk) 19:11, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I just asked for more data on the pic.Its hard to find statues of Illyrians and i want to finde more.Megistias (talk) 19:27, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I have plenty pictures off Illyrians? Why do you need em for?--Taulant23 (talk) 02:59, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Try to upload them in wiki with proper licenses so we can show more about them to the world.Megistias (talk) 11:11, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Macedonia

{{subst:Contentious topics/alert|topic=b}}Moreschi 21:55, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Image:Emblemashqip.gif listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Emblemashqip.gif, has been listed at Misplaced Pages:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. -- lucasbfr 12:43, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:EnverImageC.jpg

An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:EnverImageC.jpg, has been listed at Misplaced Pages:Possibly unfree images because its copyright status is disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the image description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at the discussion if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. ---- lucasbfr 12:51, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Same for:

• Image:Shqiperi1944.jpg
• Image:Kingzog1.jpg

-- lucasbfr 12:53, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Image source problem with Image:Valljaeburrave8lo.png

Thanks for uploading Image:Valljaeburrave8lo.png. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, their copyright should also be acknowledged.

As well as adding the source, please add a proper copyright licensing tag if the file doesn't have one already. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Misplaced Pages:Non-free content, use a tag such as {{non-free fair use in|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags#Fair use. See Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Misplaced Pages:Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 12:54, 17 January 2008 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. -- lucasbfr 12:54, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Your images

As you can see, I have started the deletion process on the pictures that seem the most obviously mistagged, if you can, please go through all your pictures to retag them with the correct license, please keep in mind that we must be very strict with media-related copyright, and to be honest, I am tempted to request the deletion of all the images you uploaded, since the ones I tagged cast a doubt on the copyright status of the others. -- lucasbfr 12:59, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay, now that I've also got confirmation that Image:Skenderbeu-michigan.jpg was a blatant copyright violation (), I will be deleting all of your uploaded images. The ban on all further image uploads remains in force. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:07, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Albanian as Epiriotes

Falemnderit Taulant ! Is really a great honor for me to give my contribution in all Albanian related articles. Tungjatjeta dodona--Burra (talk) 06:38, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

We must come to a consensus that the balance is disputed and they must not continue with their arbitrarily, I THINK THE DANISH WOMEN IS AMMAZING too AND IS MODERN SCHOLAR OF HIGH LEVEL. Thanks again, please suggest how to improve the section, and do not be provoke, try to come in line with me. Tungjatjeta Dodona I ask your support to come to consensus for the following statement supported by references in Albania article

Section :Albanian as Epiriotes

This is my agreement taking in consideration both opinions:

According to sources dating back to the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries, Scanderbeg's Albanians and Ali Pasha's kingdom were both associated with Epirus. Some of Modern scholarship, nevertheless, regards the associations between Albania and Epirus to be mainly geographical (regal in the case of Scanderbeg). However, Albanians today do not agree with this argument since they consider Epirus as part of their identity and the Albanian language as "Epirotic". But this is oppose by the Greeks because in the ancient Epirus existed the Pelasgic tribes of Selles, or Helles, and the Graiki, whose names were afterwards taken to denote the Hellenes, or Greeks; however both nations have claimed Pelasgic ancestry..

References :

1.’Pjeter Bogdani Cuneus ProphetarumCvnevs prophetarvm de Christo salvatore mvndi et eivs evangelica veritate, italice et epirotice contexta, et in duas partes diuisa a Petro Bogdano Macedone, Sacr. Congr. de Prop. Fide alvmno, Philosophiae & Sacrae Theologiae Doctore, olim Episcopo Scodrensi & Administratore Antibarensi, nunc vero Archiepiscopo Scvporvm ac totivs regni Serviae Administratore" (The Band of the Prophets Concerning Christ, Saviour of the World and his Gospel Truth, edited in Italian and Epirotic and divided into two parts by Pjetër Bogdani of Macedonia, student of the Holy Congregation of the Propaganda Fide, doctor of philosophy and holy theology, formerly Bishop of Shkodra and Administrator of Antivari and now Archbishop of Skopje and Administrator of all the Kingdom of Serbia) (The Band of the Prophets)”Albanian Academy of Science Tirane 2005’’

2.’ ‘Albanians, a martial race, were unanimous to live and die with their hereditary prince" and that "in the assembly of the states of Epirus, Skanderbeg was elected general of the Turkish war and each of the allies engaged to furnish his respective proportion of men and money’’Source :Edward Gibbon, 1788, History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Volume 6, Scanderbeg section

3.Ali Pashe kingdom 1744-1822 who was prescribed by british poet Bajron in his poem Childe Harold Source : "Albania" A Dictionary of World History. Oxford University Press, 2000. Oxford Reference Online.

4.Source :Dictionarium Latino-Epiroticum On the basis of the original edition Dictionarium Latino Epiroticum, per R.D. Franciscum Blanchum, Romae: Typis Sac.Congr.de Propag. Fide. 1635

5.Reference .' 'Barleti repeatedly stresses the national aspect of his work. Scanderbeg is not only an impressive hero, but also the saviour of his native country. When he is compared with Alexander the Great and Pyrrhus, these are not arbitrarily chosen models from antiquity, but national heroes, for Alexander's Macedonia and Pyrrhus' Epirus are for Barleti synonymous with his own country. Mostly he calls it Epirus, but also often Albania' Source : A Heroic Tale: Marin Barleti's Scanderbeg between orality and literacy Minna Skafte Jensen (b. 1937) Ass. professor of Greek and Latin, Copenhagen University, 1969-93. Professor of Greek and Latin, University of Southern Denmark, 1993-2003. Member of the Danish, Norwegian and Belgian Academies of Sciences and Letters. Main fields of research: Archaic Greek epic and the oral-formulaic theory; Renaissance Latin poetry in Denmark

6. Reference : The Albanians (more of an ethnographic than a geographic term) are called Arnauts (Arnaoots, Arnaouts) by the other peoples of the Balkan peninsula; they give themselves the name of Skipetars or "mountaineers". They claim descent from the Epirots and Illyrians, and, like the latter, have always been distinguished by their warlike spirit Source: Albania Written by Elisabeth Christitch. The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume I. Published 1907. New York: Robert Appleton Company. Nihil Obstat, March 1, 1907. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor. Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York

7. Reference : Near it are the ruins of the temple of Dodona, the cradle of pagan civilization in Greece. This oracle uttered its prophecies by interpreting the rustling of oak branches; the fame of its priestesses drew votaries from all parts of Greece. In this neighbourhood also dwelt the Pelagic tribes of Selles, or Helles, and the Graiki, whose names were afterwards taken to denote the Hellenes, or Greeks.: Source: Albania.Written by Elisabeth Christitch. The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume I. Published 1907. New York: Robert Appleton Company. Nihil Obstat, March 1, 1907. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor. Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York

8. Reference : Emperor Diocletian, carried out an administrative reform in the Roman Empire by constituting prefectures, dioceses and provinces. In conformity with this reorganisation, the Albanian territory was divided into three provinces: Praevalitana, with Shkodra (Shkodër) as its administrative centre, Epirus Nova, Dyrrachium as its capital, and Epirus Vetus, with its central city at Nikopois. The latter two were part of the Macedonian diocese. The dioceses of Dacia and Macedonia were constituent parts of the prefecture of Illyricum, which comprised the entire Balkans. Source Albanian identity by Antonina Zhelyazkova 1999.. International center for minority study and intercultural relations. Sofia .BULGARIA

9. Reference :The ancient Epirus and Illyria, is the most western land occupied by the Turks in Europe. Its extreme length is about 290 miles, and its breadth from forty to ninety miles. On the west and southwest it is bounded by the Adriatic and the Ionian seas. It is generally divided into three regions: Upper Albania, from the Montenegrin frontier to the river Shkumbi; Lower Albania, or Epirus, from the Shkumbi to the Gulf of Arta; and Eastern Albania, to the east of the Schar-Dagh chain. Source: Albania Written by Elisabeth Christitch. The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume I. Published 1907. New York: Robert Appleton Company. Nihil Obstat, March 1, 1907. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor. Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York Dodona --Burra (talk) 18:33, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Megistiastis page,this is the guy who edited Albania article here in Misplaced Pages,observe the Greek propaganda on her best!!!

http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s130/olvios300/

these two are funny:

http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s130/olvios300/Illyria/?action=view&current=Iliria-1.jpg

http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s130/olvios300/Illyria/?action=view&current=Illyria-1.jpg

Most of the pics are not even Megistias (talk) work,some maps photoshoped by him to claim lands in Albania.As I said before,1st it's 2008 and the most important Albania is and it will be an independent state, from the north to south...--Taulant23 (talk) 00:57, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

p.s. more to come

his youtube videos and coments about Albania

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Olvios300