| Revision as of 04:59, 8 February 2008 editJay*Jay (talk | contribs)605 edits →Log of Block based on ArbCom decision: thanks to Luna Santin following ArbCom logging of user:matthewsanchez indef. block← Previous edit | Revision as of 11:29, 8 February 2008 edit undoAndrew81446 (talk | contribs)229 edits →Your messageNext edit → | ||
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| :::Andrew is "monitoring" Luna. That should really scare us all. Andrew, thanks for linking to a definition of racism. That further proves my point that you were way off base in your accusation. Help is always appreciated. ] (]) 15:20, 6 February 2008 (UTC) | :::Andrew is "monitoring" Luna. That should really scare us all. Andrew, thanks for linking to a definition of racism. That further proves my point that you were way off base in your accusation. Help is always appreciated. ] (]) 15:20, 6 February 2008 (UTC) | ||
| ::::Apparently . --]<small><sup>\ ] /</sup></small> 02:29, 8 February 2008 (UTC) | ::::Apparently . --]<small><sup>\ ] /</sup></small> 02:29, 8 February 2008 (UTC) | ||
| :::::What are you so afraid of? I mad loony like me who is actually aware of the national bias that is propagated by adminstrators and editors of this system, going to people '''outside''' of the system and making them aware of what goes on '''inside''' the system? Inside the Misplaced Pages system you may have power, but people outside the system who have this idea that Misplaced Pages is this lovely, glowing, neutral pool of information need to be informed of what is actually going on. I don't care how you phrase it, or how you try and belittle what I say; the undisputed fact is that there is an article (probably one of 1000s actually) that is seriously biased culturally, within a service that is is meant to be neutral, that it is your responsibility as an elected official of that service to be neutral, and you are obstructing the proper fixing of an article (or maybe 1000s) so that it continues to reflect national bias of a single nation (you're nation probably). | |||
| :::::I don't have to state any opinions, I am simply going to reproduce the entire talk pages of the article, all contributors' comments including yours and mine (which are public domain I do believe), and let the facts speak for themselves: that a person who raises claims of bias is rebuked with cries of "old mantra" (very compassionate) and that asking you to due your duty as an administrator equals a request to "immediately roll over and agree with everything you say". The facts ''will'' speak for themselves. | |||
| :::::As a taster, here is a sample from one of the other contributors on the Hacker page whose actions you are condoning due to your failure as an administrator to be neutral. You can find it in the talk in Chapter 25. | |||
| ::::::''The United States is the ultimate, imperial authority on the English language. It is the defining culture of the English speaking world. It provides a verified, proven, authoritative and definitive understanding of words that you and your inferior country are obliged to accept. The United States is the most significant country in the world, by means of language, education system, government, policies, currency, etc. Your country, and other English speaking countries, or other countries in general are insignificant, unimportant and irrelevant compared to that. How the word is understood in the United States hence has priority; and how it is understood in other countries is relevant only when it comes to nuances.'' | |||
| :::::Don't think I'm bluffing about anything. The problem with people who are backed into a corner with nowhere to turn is that they have nothing to lose. Do I care if Misplaced Pages collapses? No, as my views were never reflected in it in the first place and were always being beaten down and belittled by the likes of yourself. And don't talk of ] to me. You killed all credibility in that system when you came crashing into my talk page first of all threatening me with your administrative powers. Why would I use a system to resolve a dispute that's potentially executed purely by people like you? No, people outside the system are the only neutral people I can rely on and unless you show me otherwise that you can be neutral, I shall be turning to people outside the system for a final verdict. | |||
| :::::You can stop this situation at any time. That's what I'm watching you for, in the vain hope you might actually stop people propagating the awful, racist, ranting like that above. | |||
| :::::] (]) 11:29, 8 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == IP vandal == | == IP vandal == | ||
Revision as of 11:29, 8 February 2008
| Talk – Sandbox – Blog |
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Welcome to my talk page! I'll sometimes reply on your talk, but will frequently (increasingly often) reply here.
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Your message
Thank you for your message.
Before you came charging in to threaten me in the capacity of an administrator, I trust that you actually read the points being made and checked the edit history on the the page itself? To me it looks like you didn't so, based on this assumption, I would like to ask you two questions.
- Misplaced Pages is not a democracy and yet you seem to be talking about "concensus" in terms of building a democratic majority. Apart from the fact that this is against offical Misplaced Pages policy, the very claims being made about this article are that it reflects concensus but it is severely biased as that concensus comes from only one section of the community at large (and not even the majority section at that). Concensus involves everybody does it not? And though the contributors to an article may be in concensus, that is absolutely no guarantee whatsoever that an article's content reflects the concensus of the intended audience, the actual "concensus" that should be achieved. I trust you understand the difference?
- If a claim is being made about bias then it is imperative the "globalise" tag be attached to stop the audience being misled while any such discussion is going on. However, attempts to secure the tag onto the page, even after proposing valid changes, have been unsucessful. Instead, without discussion, tags were just removed. If the article can't be tagged and there is no fruitful discussion then the only remaining option is to make changes directly to the article. And yet again, without discussion, all changes have been just rolled backin an "edit warring" style, the very thing you accuse me of. So given that both the guidance tags (which don't actually change the content of the article) and propsed changes were rolled back without real discussion, the only option left from the start was arbitration, the last stage in the Dispute Resolution system that you infer is not being payed any attention. Am I correct in inferring, through the tone of your message, that you condone this kind of overall situation?
The issues raised in the article's talk pages go beyond the article's bias which has been proven to exist; the issues go to the very heart of English Misplaced Pages's ability to let its contributors manage content and to present unbiased and neutral information pertaining to the whole of the English-speaking world, not just the United States. Any attempt to block a user just because a "concensus" could not be reached between a non-US contributor and the rest of the (predominantly US) contributors could easily be interpreted as racism by the wider and properly balanced audience outside of Misplaced Pages's contributors, should that wider audience be given the opportunity to judge for themselves whether the article, and Misplaced Pages as a whole, is biased or not. Any person can give that audience such an opportunity regardless of their status as an editor within the system.
I am politely asking you to be impartial. Fairness, in Misplaced Pages articles, and in the way Misplaced Pages policy is applied by its administrators, is the cornerstone of Misplaced Pages's ethics and reputation, of which you are both an ambassador and a trustee. However, the fact that it appears that I am the only person you decided to notify, despite a continuous four-month stream of people who have blatantly flouted editing, etiquette, verification and neutrality policies, is evidence that Misplaced Pages itself is currently biased. It is not an understatement to say that Misplaced Pages's reputation hangs in the balance when any claim of national bias appears to be unsolvable, so I am politley urging you to be cautious and fair in whatever actions you may deem necessary as an administrator of this system. Please either reprimand everybody in the situation or don't reprimand anybody, but reprimanding only one side makes you guilty of bias and instantly destroys your credibility as an administrator, and potentially the overall reputation of Misplaced Pages, irrespective of the system-level measures you are authorised to impose.
Andrew81446 (talk) 08:35, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
- You crack me up. You wrote that extensive thing to accuse Luna of racism? Killing me here. Enigmaman (talk) 15:14, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
- Very disappointing.
- Every time the page as been edited that page edit has been undone. i.e the number of changes and the number of reverts are the same. Don't you understand the meaning of the word "war"? It takes more than one person to have a war as it is impossible to war by oneself. As an administrator I hope you realise the consequence of your actions:
- You have victimised only one side of a dispute when a dispute is made up of more than one side (hence it is called a dispute).
- Having deliberately sought out and victimised one side of a dispute, you have then blatantly shirked your duty of impartiality as an administrator by putting the sole burden of reporting offenders from the opposite side of the dispute on the person you are victimising, because you just couldn't be bothered to analyse the situation from an impartial point of view.
- There are serious claims of bias against an article which have already been proven and yet, through your actions, you have sanctioned the removal of the
{{globalize}}tag(s) on that article thus encforcing pro-US national bias within an article when English Misplaced Pages is for the entire English-speaking world.
- I am not going to do your dirty work for you. How dare you try and pawn off your responsibilities onto a normal editor of the system. You hunted me down and deliberately singled me out. Now go and find the others and perform your duties properly as an administrator of this system, otherwise I shall be making formal reports against you (however that might be possible) that you are engendering and promoting national bias on English Misplaced Pages by intentionally only taking punitive measures against non-US people who happen to be speaking out against the prevailing US dominant point of view while trying to bring about some kind of neutrality (in normal language, racism).
- There is a serious dispute outstanding and you are calculatingly obstructing a fair an impartial resolution. I am monitoring you.
- "Immediately roll over and agree with everything you say"? You will kindly quote from my post where I said such thing or you will apologise. How dare you even be elected an administrator with that appalling kind of attitude. You are getting onto very thin ice making those kinds of accusations against a normal user (who has legitimate claims about national bias) when the record clearly states that no such accusation was made or even implied.
- You, as an administrator, have a duty to be impartial on this system. That means you don't victimise one person, you treat everyone in the dispute with the same level of tact, so that everybody in the dispute knows that an administator is watching. For example, you actually post to the page in question and you enforce the presence of discretionary tags like
{{globalize}}while the discussion that first warranted the tag is continuing. Your current actions deliberately give weight (which I am sure that is the intent) to the people I am arguing against because you are not even approaching them, and your shirking your responsibility by expecting an ordinary user to go and do it instead. It doesn't matter how bad you think an argument looks, that is the nature of discussion and your only responsibility in that situation is to make sure that the discussion continues in a manner such that all parties are equally supported or impeded. Any other approach is partiality and partiality and administrative responsibility are mutually exclusive.
- You, as an administrator, have a duty to be impartial on this system. That means you don't victimise one person, you treat everyone in the dispute with the same level of tact, so that everybody in the dispute knows that an administator is watching. For example, you actually post to the page in question and you enforce the presence of discretionary tags like
- To reitereate, I am not going to do your dirty work for you. You deliberately singled me out. I would like to see you being impartial by finding the others in the same manner and issue the same warnings. It's not difficult; read the discussion on the Talk Pages and look and the edit history on the page. If you do, you'll see that again the
{{globalize}}tag that I legitimately put on a page within the last 24 hours got removed without any justification and while the claims of national bias are still outstanding. I am counting each time you berate me in a message and let others get away scot free. Administrator on Misplaced Pages is a position of kudos - it's about high time you starting earning that kudos instead of asking ordinary users do the difficult work. Normal users have a difficult enough time as it is handling the views of other users without having biased administrators adding to their problems.
- To reitereate, I am not going to do your dirty work for you. You deliberately singled me out. I would like to see you being impartial by finding the others in the same manner and issue the same warnings. It's not difficult; read the discussion on the Talk Pages and look and the edit history on the page. If you do, you'll see that again the
- As I said, I'm monitoring you.
- The arrogance that you term a user's legitimate complaints as "a mantra getting old" is gut-wrenching, if not wholly unexpected.
- While you're seemingly macho actions may look impressive inside this system, outside of Misplaced Pages I can easily find around 100 million or so people who might just agree with me, enough people to discredit this entire English Misplaced Pages system. Indeeed, it is no exaggeration that the reputation of Misplaced Pages now hangs precariously in the balance and only you can now stop a scandal. If I don't get joy from Misplaced Pages itself then I am sure the Worldwide Press will have a field day as I quote your actions and responses to every newspaper across the English speaking world. God bless the internet - just a single login to Reuters and it's game over. The World loves a good scandal, especially one regarding the way US citizens rebuke and treat foreign people, something which seems to be hot on everybody's lips at the current time. My recommendation is that you hope that the Misplaced Pages system can somehow majically accomodate me, a lone non-US citizen fighting to be heard.
- By the way, no need to reply. The "circle" ends here.
- Andrew81446 (talk) 11:48, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
- ... in other news: people already know there's drama on Misplaced Pages. Now let's get back to what's usually in the news: naked chicks banging high schoolers. That's what the people want to read— not intelligent, rational disagreement about globalization of Misplaced Pages articles. --slakr 12:10, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
- Andrew is "monitoring" Luna. That should really scare us all. Andrew, thanks for linking to a definition of racism. That further proves my point that you were way off base in your accusation. Help is always appreciated. Enigmaman (talk) 15:20, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
- Apparently Luna is on-notice. --slakr 02:29, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
- Andrew81446 (talk) 11:48, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
- What are you so afraid of? I mad loony like me who is actually aware of the national bias that is propagated by adminstrators and editors of this system, going to people outside of the system and making them aware of what goes on inside the system? Inside the Misplaced Pages system you may have power, but people outside the system who have this idea that Misplaced Pages is this lovely, glowing, neutral pool of information need to be informed of what is actually going on. I don't care how you phrase it, or how you try and belittle what I say; the undisputed fact is that there is an article (probably one of 1000s actually) that is seriously biased culturally, within a service that is is meant to be neutral, that it is your responsibility as an elected official of that service to be neutral, and you are obstructing the proper fixing of an article (or maybe 1000s) so that it continues to reflect national bias of a single nation (you're nation probably).
- I don't have to state any opinions, I am simply going to reproduce the entire talk pages of the article, all contributors' comments including yours and mine (which are public domain I do believe), and let the facts speak for themselves: that a person who raises claims of bias is rebuked with cries of "old mantra" (very compassionate) and that asking you to due your duty as an administrator equals a request to "immediately roll over and agree with everything you say". The facts will speak for themselves.
- As a taster, here is a sample from one of the other contributors on the Hacker page whose actions you are condoning due to your failure as an administrator to be neutral. You can find it in the talk in Chapter 25.
- The United States is the ultimate, imperial authority on the English language. It is the defining culture of the English speaking world. It provides a verified, proven, authoritative and definitive understanding of words that you and your inferior country are obliged to accept. The United States is the most significant country in the world, by means of language, education system, government, policies, currency, etc. Your country, and other English speaking countries, or other countries in general are insignificant, unimportant and irrelevant compared to that. How the word is understood in the United States hence has priority; and how it is understood in other countries is relevant only when it comes to nuances.
- Don't think I'm bluffing about anything. The problem with people who are backed into a corner with nowhere to turn is that they have nothing to lose. Do I care if Misplaced Pages collapses? No, as my views were never reflected in it in the first place and were always being beaten down and belittled by the likes of yourself. And don't talk of Dispute Resolution to me. You killed all credibility in that system when you came crashing into my talk page first of all threatening me with your administrative powers. Why would I use a system to resolve a dispute that's potentially executed purely by people like you? No, people outside the system are the only neutral people I can rely on and unless you show me otherwise that you can be neutral, I shall be turning to people outside the system for a final verdict.
- You can stop this situation at any time. That's what I'm watching you for, in the vain hope you might actually stop people propagating the awful, racist, ranting like that above.
IP vandal
] just came back from a block and vandalized the same page (Christmas) twice, once after my warning. I saw that it's registered to Plymouth College, but I'm requesting a lengthy soft-block. Enigmaman (talk) 14:51, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
- ] is another from an institution with a lengthy vandalism history. OK, this one just got a two week soft block. Enigmaman (talk) 15:11, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
- 205.222.248.228 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) just got blocked by Slakr for two weeks (they may be back, but I try to avoid heckling other admins over their block lengths unless it's important). Blocked 217.205.7.2 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log). – Luna Santin (talk) 21:36, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, I mentioned the block in the second post. It's unfortunate, because the admin was too lenient, in my view. Oh well. I have another one. ] warned repeatedly, deleted warnings and replaced it with swear words. He's due for a block, IMO. Another is ] Enigmaman (talk) 15:09, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
- Another. Thanks again, Enigmaman (talk) 07:57, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
- Blocked 83.242.24.3 and 69.154.147.2. Not sure about 12.129.230.13, but I'll keep an eye out. – Luna Santin (talk) 09:40, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
- OK. What about this? It's amazing the amount of IPs I'm coming across with extensive vandalism histories. Enigmaman (talk) 16:44, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
- Blocked that one, too. – Luna Santin (talk) 02:30, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
- Another. Thanks again, Enigmaman (talk) 07:57, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, I mentioned the block in the second post. It's unfortunate, because the admin was too lenient, in my view. Oh well. I have another one. ] warned repeatedly, deleted warnings and replaced it with swear words. He's due for a block, IMO. Another is ] Enigmaman (talk) 15:09, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
- 205.222.248.228 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) just got blocked by Slakr for two weeks (they may be back, but I try to avoid heckling other admins over their block lengths unless it's important). Blocked 217.205.7.2 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log). – Luna Santin (talk) 21:36, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
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You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot (talk) 08:15, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Log of Block based on ArbCom decision
Luna Santin, thanks for implementing this block of user:matthewsanchez. As I understand it, this block should also be logged on the decision page here. Am I correct, or have I misunderstood? Thanks, Jay*Jay (talk) 10:46, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
PS: Also, is a notification on the talk page or user page of matthewsanchez (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) needed? Jay*Jay (talk) 10:54, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
- Missed the log, will update that later this evening from my main account. Regarding talk page notification, I thought about it but decided against creating additional Google fodder for the guy; this may not have been ideal, though, so I appreciate your attention to the matter. Lunasock (talk) 23:30, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
- Hi Luna, thanks for making the entry at ArbCom. FYI, I posted here as I thought you had acted on my WP:AE report and just not said anything, but following that found the WP:AN/I discussion which probably prompted your action. I understand your rationale for no user talk page notification - makes sense. Best, Jay*Jay (talk) 04:59, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Working Group login
Hi Luna Santin, just letting you know I've sent an email (via the English Misplaced Pages email function) to you with details about your Working Group wiki login details. Be sure to change your password once you log in, for security reasons! If there's any problems with the login (passwords, username not working, or anything), fire me an email and I'll try and sort them out for you. Cheers, Daniel (talk) 04:02, 8 February 2008 (UTC)