Revision as of 16:53, 19 February 2008

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Important informationShortcuts WP:AE WP:ARE Please use this page only to: request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator, request contentious topic restrictions against previously alerted editors who engage in misconduct in a topic area designated as a contentious topic, request page restrictions (e.g. revert restrictions) on pages that are being disrupted in topic areas designated as contentious topics, or appeal arbitration enforcement actions (including contentious topic restrictions) to uninvolved administrators. For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. 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eleland

• "This user's contributions consist almost entirely of contentious reversions on Israel-Palestine articles, often accompanied by hostile personal commentary" - Not true. "eleland" is pissed of because I submitted his "Israeli Occupation Forces" redirect to RfD.
• He has been bothering me and stalking me for quite a while.
• He's trying to get me blocked due to the fact that my opinions differs from his.

To "eleland" - stop stalking me and stop bothering me. I don't want any kind of connection with people like you. You seriously need to grow up and I won't even bother going over the infinite number of unjustified POVs you've edited into articles. I'm not interested in any kind of discussion with you. Radical-Dreamer (talk) 22:13, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Radical-Dreamer

This user's contributions consist almost entirely of contentious reversions on Israel-Palestine articles, often accompanied by hostile personal commentary. Since February he has made at least 15 reversions on Israel-Palestine pages and exactly 0 talk page postings.

Edit-warring and POV

• Violating 3RR against 4 different editors to change "The 2006 war with Israel" to "The 2006 war which Hezbollah started against Israel"

• Reverting an unsourced addendum including, " have pushed for Israel to be held responsible for the entire conflict to the United Nations"

• Repeatedly blanking and adding a contested prod template, after specific direction to take it to WP:RFD.
  • Note that I posted on the user's talk page to specifically point out that blanking and re-adding a prod template was inappropriate: he removed the warning with no comment except "Get a life" and continued edit-warring the blanking and prod template:

• Inserting a non-existent image into an article, apparently just out of carelessness while WP:STALKing and reverting me.

Incivility and assuming bad faith

• "We are not debating here whether you're pro-Arab or pro-Israel (although, IMO, it is quite obvious that you're pro-Arab)."

• "The author is a Palestinian who inserts his own P.O.V. into articles and creates these kind of redirections."
  • Agreed with the substance of Eleland's report. Radical-Dreamer is therefore placed on various editing restrictions, including a revert limitation and civility supervision. See here for details. Moreschi 09:58, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
    • You're doing this out of support for Eleland POVs and abusing your privileges. But fine, Eleland will get blocked eventually. It's only a matter of time.

Martinphi

Martinphi (talk · contribs) who is under an editing restriction outlined here has stalked me from WTBDWK to Consciousness causes collapse where he made the following provocative edit: . Another user pointed out that the effect of Martin's edit was to reinstate a word to avoid that has scientific implications which is particularly disruptive to an article about pseudoscience. Martin's response was astonishing: where he states, in part: "That was only meant to reverse the nonconsensus stuff by a blocked user." The reference to "blocked user" refers to my wholly unrelated block for a claimed instance of incivilty in accusing another user of making an edit that looked POV-pushing at cold fusion mediation. The other problem in the reference to "nonconsensus stuff". These attempts by Martin to claim certain edits are "nonconsensus" while others are is a hallmark pattern in the disruptive editing by users of his *ahem* ilk. It appears to me that Martin is now taking it upon himself to wikistalk and revert me. ScienceApologist (talk) 13:06, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Response

Wikistalking- Consciousness causes collapse was posted on the Fringe noticeboard . In addition, I was asked by a friend to look into it. The edit which SA says is disruptive above was merely returning to a version prior to many anti-consensus changes SA had made before his edit warring caused the article to be locked . Here is how I remember it:

Failing to gain consensus on the talk page (this for example), SA made heavy against-consensus edits to the article.

He edit warred to keep those edits in- I did not participate in that edit war.

The article was protected because of SA's actions .

The article was then unprotected because consensus on talk page indicated the need for an AfD tag.

SA was then blocked for 96 hours for unrelated disruption and incivility.

The article was unprotected, and rather than leave the anti-consensus changes in place for days, I reverted the article to about where I thought the last stable version was, and kept an edit I thought was non-controversial. However, I missed one edit at least which should have been retained, as explained on the talk page .

Please note my edit stayed in place- it was a consensus edit.

SA also does not show that I attempted to keep consensus edits by restoring WAS's edit .

I will leave it up to the admins whether this report itself is appropriate and appropriately phrased per SA's own restrictions. ——Martin ☎ Ψ Φ—— 00:36, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I would also request that SA stop doing stuff like this. There seems to be a perception that any consensus with which SA doesn't agree is disruption- see this. ——Martin ☎ Ψ Φ—— 01:00, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

User:Martinphi wikistalking and harrassment

It has been suggested that this case be brought here.. Martinphi has engaged in disruptive editing at Yi Ching, has falsely accused me of many things including trolling which I find very offensive , has reverted me on Reiki and attempted to assuage this by saying he knows my edit was in good faith , has wikistalked me to Yi Ching and reverted me with the rude edit statement "egad" and has removed the POV tag despite the wishes of at least two editors and falsely claiming consensus. He has also removed from his talkpage my efforts to try to solve these problems . He also wikistalked me to the project Misplaced Pages:Words_to_avoid and made this revert despite my comments on the takpage standing for a few days. Mccready (talk) 01:19, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Number 57 (talk · contribs)

User has violated the Decorum principals, specifically 'personal attack', 'incivility', and 'assumption of bad faith' with the following edit summary and diff:

• "Mr POV pusher himself"
• "the biggest POV pusher around" - пﮟოьεԻ 57, 16:00, 13 February 2008.

Requesting a retraction and apology or administrative action. Jaakobou 16:07, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm certainly not going to apologise. I might have WP:AGF a year ago, but your contributions make it quite clear that you are a POV pusher; as evidenced here. пﮟოьεԻ 57 16:11, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

The Arbcom ended a month ago with no action taken against either of us. I believe that bad faith assumptions and personal attacks are detrimental to the Israeli-Palestiian articles and to the project in general. Jaakobou 16:24, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

There was no action taken against me because I wasn't an involved party, and I have no idea why there was no action taken against you given the weight of evidence provided my myself and several other editors. пﮟოьεԻ 57 16:20, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Your link is misleading as you were certainly mentioned in the presented evidence but this is entirely germane to the reason I posted this complaint. Jaakobou 16:27, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Only by yourself in an attempt to discredit my evidence against you, and in passing by two editors, one of whom noted my response to an RfC, and another who noted that pro-Israeli editors attempted to bring down my RfA. пﮟოьεԻ 57 16:31, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I have no idea on how your comment relates to this complaint about a personal attack, but I'd be interested in resolving the old disputes and avoiding future similar attacks in the future. I think the best solution would be a retraction (and maybe even an apology) so that we can move forward, but I don't see that you're interested in leaving the past in the past. Jaakobou 16:36, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I'd be willing to forgive and forget, but whilst you have reduced your bias in the article space, the fact that you're complaining about Nickhh's perfectly legitimate NPOVing of several articles suggests that there is still an underlying issue. пﮟოьεԻ 57 16:41, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Nickhh is not the person making the "Mr POV pusher himself" comment.

I'm requesting a retraction. Jaakobou 16:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

• Links should always be to the final decision in a case, not the proposed decision. The final decision is at Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles#Final decision. I, who read the enforcement definition of "Uninvolved administrators" very stringently, defer evaluation of the situation to other administrators here. Frankly, though, I think the complainant deserves close scrutiny and am certain they are not an uninvolved bystander. GRBerry 17:31, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
• I also will not consider myself an "uninvolved administrator" by a stringent definition, since I am currently working with Jaakobou on a different Palestine-related article. However, it would seem to me that the operative part of remedy 1 of that case is "despite being warned, repeatedly or seriously fails". 1) Is there evidence that the user has been warned that his behavior is inappropriate? 2) Is there evidence that his behavior entails serious failings after said warning? If so, let's see it, please. - Revolving Bugbear 21:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

• I can live with a retraction (and hopefully an apology), but Number 57 just repeats the same "he's POV!!!" vindication of the insulting comment. Jaakobou 23:01, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

There are only quotes and case decision links here. Both sides please provide pertinent DIFFS. — Rlevse • Talk • 11:14, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I would say that Jaakobou's repeated reinsertion of a huge criticism section to the article on left-wing journalist Gideon Levy ( - at one stage the criticism section amounted to more than two thirds of the article's length) was a clear violation of WP:NPOV#Undue weight, and thus a good basis for pointing out that he is a POV pusher. пﮟოьεԻ 57 11:31, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

My complaint here

• per '"Mr POV pusher himself... the biggest POV pusher around (which is why I want you banned from Middle East articles)"'

Has nothing to do with a months old argument from October that Number 57 has etched to his memory (similar opposite examples exist but are germane). Number 57's old notes only show that he is an involved admin, who refuses to let go of very old disputes, and therefore should not pertain to be neutral.

On point, Personal attacks and assumptions of bad faith are a violation of the Arbcom final decision and as long as he does not post an ANI or AE notice about recent activity; Number 57 should avoid making comments while reminiscing about conflicts we had months ago.

My request is a retraction (and hopefully an apology) or administrative action.

-- Jaakobou 12:28, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

• Number57-that's from 5 months ago. Anything more recent?
• Jaakobou-you have not provided diffs of your allegations of 57's incivility and personal attacks. — Rlevse • Talk • 22:16, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I may be able to help. How about this whole section, written by Jaakobou more or less in its entirety, and last amended only a couple of days ago? Or this factual error which happily meets a POV that suits. Or this, in total breach of a recent RfC? Can I also refer to several trivial and vexatious posts complaining about the actions of other editors on this very page, including this one and the one below? --Nickhh (talk) 22:46, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I was about to provide this diff of Jaakobou changing an article to state that something in the West Bank is in Israel (obviously breaching WP:NPOV), but Nick beat me to it. пﮟოьεԻ 57 22:54, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

— Rlevse,

There is a single recent diff of the POV charges issue I've raised here, and other similar comments go back about a month (Arbcom days) or more.

The diffs presented by Number 57 and Nickhh, are misleading. They pick single edits out of their content based arguments. The "worst" example, Mar Saba, I've already admitted was a good faith error and my error was nicely resolved by ChrisO who corrected it, and actually made a small error of his own which I in turn corrected and all was well:

"thanks for the clarification!" - ChrisO, 01:05, 2 February 2008.

Mar Saba relevant discussion (if you're interested): .

My problem is that Number 57, who is an admin, sees nothing wrong with holding grudges and making these statements (self-justified "the biggest POV pusher around..I want you banned" charges); and he's promoting bad behavior from non admins who are emboldened by his comments. see this recent comment:

• "Get over yourself. It's like dealing with a sexually frustrated and incontinent adolescent." Nickhh, 23:18, 14 February 2008.

I don't see a good reason that a highly involved admin will point fingers like Number 57 did. I believe it is not only a violation of the Arbcom Final decisions but that it promotes similar conduct from non-admins. I've initially requested a retraction since there was only a single recent such comment; but I don't see any sign that Number 57 might scale back. Jaakobou 04:25, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

OK, how about some more then. Jaakobou's entire purpose of editing Misplaced Pages appears to be to either insert or strengthen negativity about Palestinians/Arabs, or to remove or weaken negativity about Israel. пﮟოьεԻ 57 09:33, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

If my entire purpose is as Number 57 proffeses, then I would not be writing 95% of Haim Farhi, retouching Image:Peasant Family of Ramallah 1900-1910.jpg (used as the main image for all the Palestinian articles) and Image:FatehMilitia.jpg, working to fix problems on Yemenite Jews etc. etc.

I've already shown on the Arbcom that Number 57 has violated WP:3RR and WP:TE himself, and this entire discussion is not about content, but rather violations of the Arbcom decisions, which Number 57 refuses to recognize.

To be specific, this comment is a violation of the Decorum Principals. Jaakobou 11:26, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

So you have made 10 edits to Haim Farhi; kinda pales into comparison with 182 edits on Battle of Jenin, 92 on Media coverage of the Arab-Israeli conflict and 71 on Muhammad al-Durrah. In fact every single one of your 15 most-edited articles are controversial Israel-Palestinian ones . In reply to your other points (a) I was asked to provide evidence to back up my claim, and (b) in the "evidence" you link to, you only claimed that I violated WP:3RR, so now trying to claim to have shown that I violated WP:TE seems to be a little bizaare (though is in line with your standard attempts to devalue criticism against your behaviour by attacking the criticiser).

Anyway, this will be my last reply to this farce, as quite frankly I have better things to do on Misplaced Pages (i.e. constructively editing articles) than this. пﮟოьεԻ 57 11:33, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Since a retraction request of the uncivil personal attack was rejected by Number 57, I request some form of administrative action that will hopefully prevent future similar "better things to do on Misplaced Pages" contributions. Jaakobou 12:03, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

comment - diff numbers say nothing; I've created 90% of the Haim Farhi article on my first contribution. I've also tried to slowly create good changes on problematic articles, and at those days tag-team 3RR was the norm.

Number 57's violation of 3RR shows not only that norm in action, but also how (certain few) admins abused their rollback tools in these edit conflicts while deleting anything that might be construed as pro-Israeli.

Sure, I've had my judgment lapses and made many errors in the (5 months ago past), but regardless, even if I am (allegedly) a POV pusher, an involved admin should not follow established editors to complaints they've made about someone else and bluntly state: "Mr. POV pusher... I want you banned".

I was thinking a retraction could, hopefully, solve this long standing issue fast and the suggestion still stands. Jaakobou 10:44, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh, so it's ok so describe someone as "not neutral" and strongly insinuate that they are POV pushing by saying they delete "anything that that might be construed as pro-Israeli.", but not to actually call them a POV pusher? Hilarious.

Also, you might be interested to know that I also delete pro-Palestinian stuff. The joys of working on Israeli-Palestinian articles! пﮟოьεԻ 57 00:10, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

"I want you banned"... hysterical right? Jaakobou 01:04, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

p.s. You are an involved admin who assumes bad faith and makes uncivil personal attacks at the hint that you are not impartial. Jaakobou 01:07, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Jewish Neighborhoods versus Israeli Settlements of Jerusalem

The following discussion is an archived report. Please do not modify it. Subsequent reports should be made in a new section.

Centralized discussion is up. Please restrict usage of this page to bring up enforcement issues only. El_C 07:42, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

For excessive reverts on related articles (Pisgat Ze'ev, Gilo, Ramot, Har Homa, Neve Yaakov), Colourinthemeaning (talk · contribs), ILike2BeAnonymous (talk · contribs), Robertert (talk · contribs), Gilabrand (talk · contribs), and possibly other users upon examination (needless to say, anyone else reverting on this set of articles, is at risk of being added), are, for the next month, placed on a one-(talk page obligatory)-rr on any Jerusalem-related entry. We are not going to have this multiple-entry revert war go on, indefinitely. I gotta step out now, but I will give this formula further thought later. Comment below, but please keep them brief. Long winded debate will be aggressively redacted. Many thanks. El_C 23:29, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, please do take action against User:Colourinthemeaing, who went ahead and did a blanket revert well after you sent this message. In fact, this person should be blocked from Misplaced Pages altogether for the disruptive and aggressive nature of his "editing," which is to go from article to article and insert his personal views, and promptly set off an argument with people who have long contributed to the page before he parachuted out of nowhere and decided that he is God's gift to Misplaced Pages (if not mankind).--Gilabrand (talk) 16:38, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I wish someone could put in some time to read through all this. I know that it isn't the most simple dispute but it is straightforward. Most of the discussion is here. --Robertert (talk) 10:08, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

There's no "someone," there's only moi. I highly doubt anyone else would be willing to look into this. These disputes are too time consuming and the Arbitration Committee strict criteria of "uninvolved" means that few admins looking into these issues have the necessary familiarity with the content to speed things up enough. Anyway, both sides are allowed one revert per day, including a talk page comment. No one has violated that, yet. And, no, nobody is getting blocked, yet. I'll set up a centralized one, so please respond there. El_C 07:36, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

RodentofDeath (talk · contribs)

The following discussion is an archived report. Please do not modify it. Subsequent reports should be made in a new section.

blocked 31 hours by FutPerf

RodentofDeath (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)

74.220.203.56 (talk · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log))

74.220.203.56 adds an RFC similar to the one added a few days ago by 202.69.172.48 (talk · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log)), which was blocked for being banned user RodentofDeath. Incidentally, RodentofDeath self-identifies as a traveler who can post from geographically varying IP addresses. / edg ☺ ☭ 21:08, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Contribs show no edits to an RFC by either IP. — Rlevse • Talk • 02:11, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Correct. Edits are to Talk:Human trafficking in Angeles City. 74.220.203.56 is resuming a campaign started by 202.69.172.48, which is pretty obviously RodentofDeath. Identical request with substitute language. / edg ☺ ☭ 08:19, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

IP blocked. I wouldn't have taken the new edit on its own as clear evidence, as it was relatively moderately worded, but the exact identity with the wording of the previous IP, which had been much more distinctly Rodent-like in its second edit, makes things clear enough, I think. Feel free to roll back its edits. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:31, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

The following discussion is an archived report. Please do not modify it. Subsequent reports should be made in a new section.

Kékrōps (talk · contribs)

Kékrōps (talk · contribs) was recently placed under an 1r/d revert parole under WP:ARBMAC by Moreschi, and promptly blocked for a breach of it a few days after. Now, two days after his coming back from that block, I see him revert-warring on talk pages , . He was also continuing various slow revert wars across several articles yesterday, while sticking with 1r/d, yet ignoring the requirement of accompanying talk page discussion here , , . Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:57, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Excuse me, but I was not aware that restoring a comment of mine, removed by another user on a third party's talk page, constituted a violation of any revert parole. To me, having my comments deleted is a simple case of obvious vandalism. Regarding my other reversions, they were either clearly explained in my edit summaries as a straightforward enforcement of WP:MOSMAC, thus not requiring further explanation on the talk pages, or a restoration of an administrator's version that had been vandalised. As for my recent block, I believe it was unjustified. It was not a content dispute; I was simply reverting the obviously misleading claim that consensus had been achieved on the use of "Macedonia" in country templates, when in fact the matter was still being debated by several editors on the relevant talk page. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 07:15, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Being "an administrator's version" is nothing that confers a version any special degree of authority, and makes reverting to it any less a part of revert warring. I suppose you are referring to this one - that didn't even have an edit summary, and the edit you reverted was most certainly not vandalism. You've been here long enough to know all these things. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:39, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I guess we must have different interpretations of "vandalism", then. If removing a long-standing note that specifically restricts the scope of a template, in order to facilitate a POV edit, is not vandalism, what is it? I remind you that this was a note established by consensus. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 07:49, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

The disputed user talk page comments (, ) strike me as being both provocative and unnecessary. Fut. Perf. had asked for a translation, not a political commentary, and the comments aren't a good idea as far as Misplaced Pages:Civility is concerned. I note that WP:CIV authorises the removal of uncivil comments so it seems rather unwise to twice revert such a removal, particularly in the light of the clearly expressed reason for removing it prior to the second revert. Concerning this reversion , Kekrops has a point although it was arguably a clumsily done reversion (it certainly should have had an edit summary). The version that he reverted to is essentially one that's been in place since October 2006 () and there's a long-standing convention that "countries" templates don't list unrecognised territories (compare Template:Countries of Europe with Template:Countries and territories of the Middle East, which has a wider scope). We may need to change the scope of Template:Countries of Europe and its subordinate templates to encompass territories, but that's a discussion that needs to take place elsewhere before European territories start getting listed in templates. Personally, I would have reverted that edit as well. -- ChrisO (talk) 08:16, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Is using racist epithets against other ethnic groups, albeit in another language, acceptable according to Misplaced Pages:Civility? Why haven't these editors been sanctioned for calling Bulgarians "Tatars" and Greeks "sub-saharans"? Another editor has even tried to defend them by denying that they implied inferiority and instead accused me of racism for suggesting that they did, as well as telling me to "shut up" in Spanish in the edit summary. I'm finding it very hard to assume good faith here. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 08:18, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Update: I have now been accused of "baiting" the editor who made the racist remarks in the first place. Is this acceptable? ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 10:39, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

No, using racial epithets in any language isn't acceptable. If we can have a proper translation of that discussion (which I assume is in Macedonian?) let's review what it actually says so that action can be taken if needed. -- ChrisO (talk) 08:27, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Translation is on Fut. Perf's talk page. And Kékrōps seems to have a history of racism, see user talk:Kékrōps#Racist! and User talk:Kékrōps#Marcos Baghdatis. Both times his response to accusations was "Piss off". BalkanFever 11:13, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I request that disciplinary action be taken against the above user for persistently calling me a racist, a clear violation of WP:NPA. I have repeatedly asked him to stop, to no avail. Enough is enough. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 11:27, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

The behaviour towards Kekrops, especially by admin Fut.Perf. is a blatant case of double standards, if you see Fut.Perf.'s behaviour towards BalkanFever. In one case he's quick to ban (or rather refer the ban to Moreschi), in the other case he's the first to stand in support and just offer friendly advice Now I might be biased and consider that BalkanFever is much more provocative than Kekrops, but let's for a moment consider that they are both equally provocative and then monitor the admins behaviour towards them. I invite any third party to do exactly that.--   Avg    18:40, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing me to that talk page discussion. From my reading of it, Raso mk and MacedonianBoy had called Bulgarians and Greeks "Tatars" and "sub-saharans" respectively; you were advising MacedonianBoy to avoid using such language because it was racist and would give other users the chance to complain. In response, Kekrops posted the comments that you twice removed and he twice reverted (). Is that correct? If so, my take on it is as follows: Kekrops was factually correct to criticize MacedonianBoy's language as basically racist, but he was unwise to cause unnecessary aggravation by posting inflammatory comments, and doubly unwise to abuse reversion to restore his comments after your objections. You were right to caution MacedonianBoy against using language that could give offence, but it wasn't the best idea in the circumstances for you to remove Kekrops' comments (leave that to MacedonianBoy, it's his talk page). I think the two of you need to be more careful about the way you deal with each other - don't remove each others' comments, don't abuse reversion and think before you post. If it's not necessary to post something, don't post it. -- ChrisO (talk) 20:17, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes. But the reason I removed it was because of the unnecessary aggravation. I still consider that as Kekrops' original purpose. After calming MacedonianBoy down, and successfully persuading him to not make offensive comments any more, I honestly felt that Kekrops' comments would send the whole situation back to square one. BalkanFever 08:09, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

It was important to clarify in English what he said and against whom, so that appropriate action could be taken. You obviously disagree. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 19:47, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

If it's so obvious, why did I translate his comments in the first place? You were not asked to clarify anything - 1) because you do not understand the Macedonian language, and 2) because Future Perfect can draw conclusions from the translation himself. BalkanFever 02:34, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I do not wish to advocate Kekrops position or something, but I think he has hit a few spots here. I noticed he not only got a revert parole, but he might be endangered by a lengthy block. So what I think is - this would be quite unfair - yeah I know that Kekrops is here from a long time and should have got familiar with the rules by now, and that we should always assume good faith (if that's possible for someone that has a Userbox "This user does not believe in Greek history" - whatever that has to mean - its his right to have such a box after all), but then is there any particular reason as to why the other user didn't get any block? And BalkanFever's two edit-wars on Vergina Sun and United Macedonia passed on unnoticed - he was not even warned for it and yet the topics are well within the Balkan's peremeter. I'd understand Kekrops and the other Greek editors feeling a little frustrated. --Laveol 21:28, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

It's funny that you don't mention the other guy who was involved - User:The Cat and the Owl (If you are interested in userboxes, check that out ;-)). I really don't see what blocking MacedonianBoy could have achieved - the comments were made on his talk page, which he would have been allowed to edit anyway while blocked. Not to mention he was unaware of WP:ARBMAC at the time. BalkanFever 02:34, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

But you are ;) . And he should not be using ethnic slurs when he refers to other editors (or to anybody) and in this case he is well aware what he's saying (writing) and if it offends someone. --Laveol 15:41, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Which is what I told him. Where are you going with this? BalkanFever 15:47, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

The point is that even though you told him in a private Slavic conversation not to use racist slurs, when the matter was raised in English, you chose to defend rather than condemn him. And by the way, I know enough South Slavic to know when I'm being insulted, so it was entirely appropriate for me to point it out to everyone rather than wait for someone to translate the conversation. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 06:09, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I translated it over 2 hours before you made the comment. BalkanFever 06:46, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

My bad; I didn't see your translation until afterwards, as it was on another talk page, not where the racist comments were initially made and the translation requested. ·ΚέκρωΨ· (talk) 06:54, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I concentrated more on who requested the translation, not on where they requested it. BalkanFever 07:17, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Revert parole for Kékrōps altered and extended: logged at WP:ARBMAC. Moreschi 11:49, 17 February 2008 (UTC)