Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 05:56, 13 March 2008

An editor has expressed a concern that this user may be a sock puppet of WordBomb. Please refer to contributions for evidence. See block log and current autoblocks.

Template:Do not delete

• User_talk:Mackan79/Archive_1
• User_talk:Mackan79/Archive_2

Mistaken page

Been deleted, no problem. speedy criterion G7 covers that one, a mistakenly created page that the author requests deletion of. You can place {{db-author}} on those too, or of course I'm happy to help. Seraphimblade 04:01, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

69.67.230.109

But isn't it? Abortion is murder, no matter what Misplaced Pages says. --69.67.230.109 03:36, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

List

Mackan,

I was hoping that the list could be collaborative, and created by multiple parties. There are other posters who know more about certain controversies than myself, and vice versa. CJCurrie 22:00, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Your note

Hi Mackan, I understand your points. I do think that the current 'protected' template, as I noted in the Talk page, clearly tells the readers that there is a dispute among editors, that the version is locked, and that the locking does not necessarily endorse the locked version. I find that a very reasonable top-level description of the status quo. Any interested reader can then go to the Talk page with one click and read further details there. Although I strongly believe that we must unlock the entry ASAP, we don't want to descend immediately into renewed edit wars, which will just get us back to where we are now, so it seems logical to insist on mediation. I hope you all can move that process along ASAP. Crum375 15:30, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Allegations of Israeli apartheid

What do you think of incorporating the newest allegations and info, the 7 new items on the Discussion page?Kritt 06:03, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know about the article. I will read it as soon as I can --Aminz 01:09, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't your vote more accurately be described as rename or move?--Urthogie 21:49, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I feel like dialogue gets nowhere with you right now. You don't even highlight a single correct argument that I make. If you want to report me for 3RR, go ahead-- you'll just be keeping a falsehood on the page 24 hours. If you want to actually see that G-Dett objectively misread Adam and Moodley, I would highly advise that.--Urthogie 17:57, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I've suggested a compromise on the talk page. Please remove the report?--Urthogie 19:10, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

The compromise has nothing to do with the 3rr, which as you said is relatively inconsequential to me. It has to do with my observation on reflection that Adam and Moodley are dealing with position on Israel as an apartheid state, not all the types of accusation.--Urthogie 20:52, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi Mackan

With so many different "allegations"-related deletion votes going on, it occurred to me that you might have missed this one: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Allegations of apartheid (third nomination).

Nice work on NAS. All best, --G-Dett 14:00, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Stephen Breyer

Your GA nomination of Stephen Breyer

The article Stephen Breyer you nominated as a good article has passed , see Talk:Stephen Breyer for eventual comments about the article. Good luck in future nominations. I have left some comments as to how to further improve the article on Talk:Stephen Breyer. Please feel free to message me if you have any queries. LordHarris 01:07, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Zeq-Zero0000

Hello,

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Zeq-Zero0000. Please add any evidence you may wish the arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Zeq-Zero0000/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Zeq-Zero0000/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, David Mestel 19:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

ok but

can we clarify what place the allegations would find in this article?--Urthogie 22:28, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

my fear is that i'll just end up creating another frankstein monster. what if that thing explodes into israel criticism and israeli apartheid article is kept?? it seems like a pure rename is best because it would attract a lot more neutral and mainstream editors. it's hard to go on faith alone because editors like Kritt aren't so open minded as yourself in this regard.--Urthogie 22:53, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Why does it need to be done in your user space? The way I see it this is a list made by editors to be as long as possible to make Israel look as bad as possible. Why don't you support me on the actual talk page in pointing out that assistant professors should be removed immediately from the article, as their views are not significant enough?--Urthogie 15:04, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok. I think that the sources that list people that aren't especially notable should be turned into source lists, like a list of israeli academics, or a list of MP's, etc. Because these people are notable when taken as a group. This sound like a good way to start the talk page version?--Urthogie 15:22, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey Mackan79

Please take a quick glance at the edit history pages for Allegations of Saudi Arabian apartheid and Allegations of Brazilian apartheid and review the history of Hafrada (Separation) and it's older version Hafrada. Something to consider in light of the discussions surrounding Allegations of Israeli apartheid. I have tried very hard to WP:AGF, but IMO there are a couple of editors who have gone too far. Tiamut 15:48, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

User about to banned

I wonder if you might take a look at this Mackan. Whatever one may think of this user's edits, it seems to me he's being railroaded here.--G-Dett 18:53, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

red link = good

I'd like to hear the case for why these red links shouldn't be there. Generally, red links are supposed to be on templates if applicable.--Urthogie 16:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

you might want to argue your other points --Urthogie 16:16, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok, so are you saying if I demonstrate without a doubt that those allegations are article-worthy, we can keep them as red links until I or someone else writes them? If so, let's start with the US. Entire books have been written on the US "economic apartheid" of the poor and specifically blacks, an allegation which is accepted as basic fact by many. Unlike "Israeli apartheid", it actually relates to race, and blacks are actually part of the country, rather than Palestinians in the West Bank who aren't actually Israelis. (of course, Guantanmo is also compared to apartheid frequently as well, if anything an example of how irrationally the term is thrown around) Agree?--Urthogie 17:07, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

So, please specify what the problem is then with adding a red link for US allegations of apartheid?--Urthogie 17:18, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

'Your article is on a contentious and disputed issue.' You've cut right to the heart of the matter. There is no actual policy objection to the red links, only "its ugly" (subjective) and "its contentious." Applying occam's razor here would lead me to believe the non-policy objections result only from opinions about allegations.--Urthogie 18:36, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Palestine

WikiProject Palestine is looking for editors to help build and maintain comprehensive, informative, balanced articles related to Palestine on Misplaced Pages. Start by adding your name to the list of members at WikiProject Palestine. Ahlan wa Sahlan! (Welcome!)

--Ian Pitchford 19:51, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Harris

First off, you seem to forget that we are advised to be bold. Second, if you object to certain changes, feel free to bring them up on the talk page where a discussion has already been taking place before I made any edits. Thanks VanTucky 17:40, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Separation of Church and State - Theocracy

Hi Mackan -- the sentence which you say is at issue would seem to rule out the Vatican as well as Israel: "The opposite end of the spectrum from separation is a theocracy, in which the state is founded upon the institution of religion, and the rule of law is based on the dictates of a religious court." The law in the Vatican state with regard to civil secular matters parallels that of Italy. Under the Lateran treaty, crimes are not handled by the "dictates of a religious court" but are prosecuted by Italy in Italian secular courts. Both states are "founded upon the institution of religion" and have citizenship laws which give unique privilege to religious adherents. I'll agree that Israel should be deleted on this basis if the Vatican City is deleted on the same basis. Neither is a traditional theocracy, but both have a unique and essential tie to a religion. Mamalujo 18:59, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Joseph Priestley

Thank you for your efforts to tighten up the prose on Joseph Priestley; they are, by and large, effective. I hesitate to say this, but I wonder if it is the best use of your wikipedia time to copy edit this article at this time. Much is going to have to be removed from this article and whole sections are going to be reworded since it is too long, so I am not sure that this is the moment to go over the language with a fine-toothed comb, looking for superfluous words or slightly awkward phrasings. You are welcome to do so - I just wanted to make you aware of the ongoing editing and the possibility that whole sections you have carefully corrected may be deleted or radically revised in the near future. Awadewit | talk 05:44, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

If you want to help me out with The Age of Reason, I would greatly appreciate it as there are currently no other editors working on the page. I have thrown all of the information up that I think I am going to want in the article, but some of it needs to be slightly rearranged and the sentences need to be refined. I am trying to prepare it for a peer review and FAC. Just a thought. Awadewit | talk 09:56, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Islam: What the West Needs to Know

Could you please review a controversy currently brewing at this page? CJCurrie 02:05, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Nice work

		The Editor's Barnstar
		For boldly disentangling Fundamentalism and Fundamentalist Christianity. Groupthink 20:11, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

the AFD

its customary to comment on users who create accounts for the sole purpose of adding to an AFD.--Urthogie 15:28, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

sure thing. thanks, --Urthogie 15:31, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd like my comment there.--Urthogie 15:39, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Hey, a huge chunk of the discussion just disappeared after your last edit. I don't know how to revert it and still preserve all the posts... Can you unscrew this, please? Thx ;-) --Targeman 15:55, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Oops, my bad, didn't notice :-) --Targeman 15:59, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi Mackan, can you do it? I'm not absolutely sure what you're referring to, and I'm running out the door... whereever you think it should go is fine with me.--G-Dett 18:52, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Please comment

This is a message for all regulars at the “apartheid” AfD series. I believe there may have been a breakthrough. Please share your thoughts here. Thanks. --Targeman 03:03, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Kudos...

... for your valiant attempt to cleanup the Cult article that has suffered from bias, lack of sources and other maladies for long enough. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 00:09, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Template for Discrimination Project

Greetings about the Template for Discrimination Project. I'm leaving a note for you and other recent editors so the back and forth editing of the Discrimination template will cease and those interested can dialog about the need to include or not include an article. Please use Template talk:Discrimination and start a new section "Include _____ ?" so that others can also help keep the discussion constructive. thank you. Benjiboi 17:08, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Oops !

I'm truly sorry about this one :  ! I mixed up the links, editing in the same time the oldids on my userpage to keep track of the last diff of each article i already read. Sorry again. NicDumZ ~ 14:56, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Allegations of Chinese apartheid AfD

Following your recent participation in Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Allegations of French apartheid, you may be interested to know that a related article, Allegations of Chinese apartheid, is currently being discussed on AfD. Comments can be left at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Allegations of Chinese apartheid. -- ChrisO 15:57, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Allegations of apartheid

Hello,

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Allegations of apartheid. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Allegations of apartheid/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Allegations of apartheid/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee,Newyorkbrad 18:11, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Allegations of apartheid template

As you've edited the tempate itself I'm wondering what your thoughts are on the TFD discussion at Misplaced Pages:Templates_for_deletion#Template:Allegations_of_apartheid? Lothar of the Hill People 21:58, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Your email

Hey, sorry I did not respond earlier. Been very busy in RL, and wrapped up in the AoIa Rfar thing. I'd like to continue this discussion with you, time permitting, but would prefer to do it on-wiki, unless you have thoughts that are really so private you don't want them shared, which I guess I can understand. For my part, I think I can speak about this issue perhaps more generally, as my earlier approach seems to have annoyed you (though I assure you that was not at all what I intended). IronDuke 04:22, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm officially baffled now. First, you question why it is I want to continue the discussion; in fact, I was responding to your email, where you indicate just such a desire. If you don't want to continue it, that's A-OK with me. If you feel matters are too sensitive to be discussed on-wiki, maybe you can say more about that. I don't see why you are insulted by the notion that you might have private thoughts not suitable for WP; I think most editors here do have such thoughts/opinions. And since you asked to have this discussion off-wiki, I can't see how I could reach any other conclusion than there are issues you want to keep private. Just really baffled why this insults you.

When I said I thought you were annoyed, it was because you removed my comments. I interpreted that as annoyance--perhaps I was wrong. Your email to me was fine, although I would argued you showed some annoyance there, too, not that there is a thing in the world wrong with that. If you are annoyed with me, I'd much rather you express it (in a nice way) than pretend you aren't.

I'm just at a bit of a loss as to why you feel antagonized; it's starting to feel like a deliberate misreading of what I'm trying to do here. I don't "need" to continue this discussion, but I'm happy to if you feel there are unresolved issues. IronDuke 18:48, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Allegations of apartheid

Please see Talk:Allegations_of_apartheid#Propose_move_to_.22Apartheid_analogies.22. Lothar of the Hill People 21:10, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Discrimination against atheists

Hi I see you reverted the last edit on Discrimination against atheists where you removed the word "other". You cited the word "other" being in violation of NPOV policies and I just wanted to know your rationale for that. The article originally had the word "other" in it, which was subsequently removed, and I changed that back. Thank you. Obac88667 22:56, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Stephen Breyer

I am conducting reviews of Law articles listed as Good as a part of Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. A week ago I put Stephen Breyer article on hold, but have not received any answer. I don't realy want to delist this article, so could you address those issues? (see Talk:Stephen Breyer#GA Sweeps (on hold)) Ruslik 10:34, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Your evidence

Regarding your evidence, I blocked WB because he posted to Gary Weiss that Weiss was editing as MM on Misplaced Pages, plus some other potentially defamatory material that was only partly sourced. The edit was deleted, which is why you can't find it. I blocked the account, told him I would unblock if he would assure me he wouldn't post it again, to which he responded by posting it again. Therefore, the block stood. The block had nothing to do with claims about sockpuppets or vandalism. SlimVirgin 20:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by him having promised not to post again. He made an edit that was a serious violation of BLP and harassment. He was blocked for it. You can't see that edit because it was admin-deleted. He was then told on his talk page that he would be unblocked if he agreed not to post it again. He responded by re-posting part of it. You can't see that edit either because it's also been admin-deleted. Because he did that, the block remained. Had he not done that, and had he given some kind of assurance (such as "I'm sorry, I'm new, I didn't realize"), he'd have been unblocked. SlimVirgin 20:38, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

You wrote: "As I said, for him to repeat the allegation at that point, when you also asked for an explanation of his edits, does not seem to me surprising, or evidence of bad faith."

I must not be making myself clear. He posted "A is B" (among other things). It was deleted as a violation of two policies, and he was blocked. He was told "You must not post A is B. If you agree not to do that, you will be unblocked." His response was "A is B." If that's not acting in bad faith, I don't know what is. SlimVirgin 21:07, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

your note

The linked material is an attack on a living person, GW, unsupported by reliable sources. In addition, the linked material includes an outing attempt of a Wikipedian. Both violate BLP and must be removed by anyone, per:

Editors should remove any contentious material about living persons that is unsourced, relies upon sources that do not meet standards specified in Misplaced Pages:Verifiability, or is a conjectural interpretation of a source (see Misplaced Pages:No original research). The three-revert rule does not apply to such removals. Content may be re-inserted only if it conforms to this policy. These principles apply to biographical material about living persons found anywhere in Misplaced Pages, including user and talk pages. Administrators may enforce the removal of such material with page protection and blocks, even if they have been editing the article themselves. Editors who re-insert the material may be warned and blocked. See the blocking policy and Misplaced Pages:Libel.

Crum375 (talk) 18:00, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

I am not taking any sides, and don't think that two wrongs make a right. If you see any unsourced derogatory BLP material, you may remove it. And the whole point of WP:BLP, which I quoted above is that we don't wait for someone else to do it — each WP editor is empowered to remove the improper BLP material. Crum375 (talk) 18:56, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

I did not remove "links to a BLP violation", since as you correctly note our BLP rules don't apply outside WP. I removed material that is BLP violation in itself, and consists of a link to unsourced derogatory information about a living person. Crum375 (talk) 19:10, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Response

Mackan79 - I responded to you on my page. Should I also here? If so, my answer was, your point is taken and respected. I am just learning my way around here and will in the future check on such matters before posting. Best, PatrickPatrickByrne (talk) 01:30, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Re: Deleted edits

No, there is not. It's almost certainly been oversighted. —Random832 04:28, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

To clarify, the article has no deleted edits visible to administrators. —Random832 04:36, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

That link has a timestamp of 22:28, as can be seen in the url itself: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Special:Undelete
&target=User_talk:WordBomb&timestamp=20060707222852&diff=prev . —Random832 22:47, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Neve Gordon

Following apparently libellous attacks on this article, you removed all reference to Neve Gordon's libel action against Steven Plaut. This removes the main part of the article. I have restored my edit from this morning, which removed the libels and distortions inserted by apparent sockpuppets of User:Truthprofessor, and relied on an objective NPOV report in The Chronicle of Higher Education, rtaher than on the smears and lies of FrontPage Magazine. I hope you will agree that this is better than leaving the article almost empty, and without reference to this important issue. It is likely that Truthprofessor will try again to repeat his libels of Gordon in this article, so best keep a watch on it! Thanks RolandR (talk) 17:37, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with you about the Dershowitz comment; but it might be difficult to justify removing it altogether. I removed a long quote, allegedly by Plaut, which wasn't in the source cited. I have no doubt that this is his view, but it can't possibly be inserted without a source. And, since the appeals court has confirmed his conviction for libel against Gordon, it would be extremely foolish of us to include this even if sourced correctly.

Look at the background to this, including Category:Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of Zuminous, Category:Suspected Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of Zuminous, and Category:Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of Truthprofessor. These are clearly the same person as User:Jenkinsimon and User:Borisyy, and I believe them to be Plaut himself. Jenkinsimon's edits to Talk:Steven Plaut, in which he posted libellous comments about a third party in his attack, resemble also the MO of the notorious Runtshit sockpuppeteer. We have to keep an eye on all of this. RolandR (talk) 19:26, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

And, for further evidence, compare this edit by Jenkinsimon to your talk page just now, with this one, by a Runtshit sockpuppet to User talk:ST47 in December 2006. RolandR (talk) 19:49, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure an RFCU would help, as this vandal seems to be an expert at using proxy and anonymising services, which leave no trace. RolandR (talk) 20:30, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Block

George, the lack of thought here is somewhat striking. I can only assume you think I was referencing an email that WordBomb sent you in my earlier comment. If so, please look for an email I sent you on December 7, 2007 which began:

I haven't seen you so much on Wiki, but generally appreciate your thoughts on the mailing list, so you may be a good person to ask about this, if you don't mind. What I'm wondering: I've followed the whole Bagley situation somewhat closely, and have seen most of the allegations against him. In terms of "dangerous stalking and harassment," however, I'm frankly not sure what you refer to.

If the issue is something else, please let me know. Mackan79 (talk) 05:56, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

• Suspected Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of WordBomb
• Suspected Misplaced Pages sockpuppets