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Military history: Baltic states / European / Polish / World War II Start‑class

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Old talk

For some old discussions, see Talk:Dubingiai.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 01:03, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Irrelevant image

Image:Armia Krajowa killings 2.jpg is not relevant. Not only is the source dubious, but the image simply has nothing to to with Dubingiai massacre. Caption states: "Killed Lithuanians by Armia Krajowa" - this could have happened anywhere. A much better picture would be a monument in the village; is there a one? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 01:03, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Image is completely relevant. Image shows killed civilians, who there killed by Armia Krajowa in 23 June, 1944 in Molėtai district (there Dubingiai is).Article covers this time and area and specific subject. I also should note that you failed to produce any academic sources, which denounce specific facts, which supports your speculation about "dubious source". M.K. (talk) 08:52, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Anything written by Garšva is as reliable as works of Irving, as the relevant articles (Vilnija) demonstrate. Please provide a reference to your claim that the image shows what it you claim it shows.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 20:07, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

If you have undisputed facts that presented photo is falsification - present the these sources and facts. Currently you failed to produce any academic facts, which would contradict photo material presented in article. Reference of photo you will find and in presented cource. WP:IDONTLIKEIT is not and argument to delete and other information. M.K. (talk) 10:39, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Removal of the info is supported by WP:RS and WP:FRINGE, among others. In other words, Vilnija claims are not encyclopedic.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 18:13, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

70-100?

Please provide quotations and translations for the 70-100 victims range. Please provide those particularly for Rimantas Zizas Arūnas Bubnys; I am sure that KG and Vilnija make such claims - but they are hardly reliable. Also, please provide the quotation for Kozłowski's claim about Joniškis.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 21:22, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Update: I am glad to see that the ref to KG was removed without much fuss. Now, if we can get exact citations for those other claims? Do note that the issue is primarily the confusion between casualties in Dubingai; I have sources that in that period there were indeed other actions of AK that resulted in casualties among the civilian bystanders, so this is not disputed (although it would be good to have exact citations for exact numbers - who wrote 70, who wrote a 100...).--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 22:08, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Citations provided, there are more facts provided. As a gesture of I do insist that you' remove antisemitic references of yours and your friend in other articles, would you?--Lokyz (talk) 22:34, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. If you can show any article where antisemitic sources are used to make antisemitic claims, I will remove them ASAP.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 22:36, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Just a hint:Holocaust deniers are generally considered unreliable sources in Western civilization.--Lokyz (talk) 22:54, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Łupaszko or Rakoczy

Can we have a ref for Łupaszko being the commander of the unit that carried out the massacre? I have a ref in front of me that notes that the company of AK 5th Brigade that carried out the executions in Dubniki was commanded by lt. "Rakoczy" (Jan Wiktor Wiącek). For the record, Zygmunt Szendzielarz "Łupaszko" was the commander of the 5th Brigade. It is likely that some sources erroneously attribute the event to him as the unit commander, even through he was not on spot and it was "Rakoczy" who was in fact the commander on spot. PS. To clarify: can we have a ref for his direct involvement? Being a commander of a unit whose subunit does something without order and not in a presence of its superior officer should not portrayed as "a unit under the command of a superior officer did this and that".--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 21:38, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Mass murder or executions?

Please provide the ref (with original and translation if necessary) for the term "mass murder"; the ref I have in front of me (which I will soon use to expand this article) refers to the event as "executions" (pl. "rozstrzelanie").--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 21:41, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

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