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User:Electrobe

This is the second time I have had to come here regarding this user the first being here Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive137#User:Electrobe with also links to his wikiquette alert WP:Wikiquette alerts#User:Electrobe, going through his contributions you will see he has been chaning several dozen template to his new format which includes changing the wikilinks text to black this is discrouged in the WP:COLOUR MOS I am not the only user who dislikes this new format see Template:RussianPMs it tried to discuss this with the user Template talk:Pictish and Scottish Monarchs#Link colour and get accused of vandalism --Barryob (Contribs) (Talk) 11:22, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

The user is still using inappropriate images on templates see Template:Head of Government of the Isle of Man he has already been warned against this and Template talk:Scottish First Ministers#Coat of arms... could and admin please talk action this user is becoming very disruptive --Barryob (Contribs) (Talk) 12:39, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Just start warning the user. Rgoodermote  01:44, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

From the "oh no, not again" department

I would like to see some discussion, please on ways of de-escalating conflicts instead of escalating them. On BongBoing, they have the concept of "disemvowelling", which neutralises rants without drama. I don't think that would work here because edits / posts can be re-edited or reverted, but we need a credible way of calmly reining in "rhetorical exuberance" without over-reacting to it.

At the moment we have a very blunt instrument - blocking - and a very poor way of controlling it which means that "oh sod off, we already debated that five hundred times" is seen as more of a problem than bringing up the same rejected POV for the five hundred and first time. WP:CIVIL is all well and good, but there is a world of difference between being reasonably respectful of fellow editors, and cuddling up to a never-ending parade of zealots. There is also a tendency to focus on one diff that says "sod off" and go straight into Chicken Little mode, ignoring the dozens of exchanges that led up to it, the vexatiousness of those who work their way through every guideline in the book until they find one that suggest some slight ambiguity where none, in fact, exists, in some cases legions of sock and meatpuppets, and so on. In fact, Misplaced Pages's format lends itself well to a bait and report technique which looks to me to be the MO of some of the more clueful zealots on the project these days.

And above all we appear to be requiring long-standing editors and defenders of policy to become superhuman in order to be allowed to continue contributing.

Misplaced Pages is currently almost certainly the number one most important place to get your point of view promoted. I don't think anyone disputes that. It's also the case that some promoters of fringe theories, conspiracies and the like are vicious and unscrupulous, leading many people to give them a very wide berth, and some are just plain tiresome, repeating the same false assertions time and again in the hope that one day they will become true, or endlessly trying to draw a new "consensus" between the current state of the article and their preferred POV. This is not necessarily done with evil intent; many people sincerely believe that telekinesis exists, vaccines are killing and disabling children, the World Trade Center was blown up by the Government in order to justify a new oil war and so on.

That leaves a few people (e.g. User:MONGO, User:ScienceApologist) working hard to resist long-term egregious POV-pushing, with the result that tempers get frayed. Tempers get frayed anyway, in controversial topics such as the never-ending ethnic feuds. I really don't think that blocking people for tetchiness in the face of POV-pushing is a great idea. I don't think that many people here will be unaware of my view on this, of course, but in the end we are allowed to call a spade a spade sometimes, and we are actually allowed to be human. We are also allowed to become frustrated. And there should be a way of calmly refactoring or toning down such frustration that allows people to calm down, because blocking for sarcasm or snappish remarks is about as effective as "cool-down" blocks. Blocking is supposed to be preventive, but virtually every block of a long-standing contributor for civility infringements - even (perhaps especially) including Giano - ends up looking punitive. If the block were preventive, simply posting "OK, I am calm now" on the talk page should result in an immediate and uncontroversial unblock.

But I don't think blocking is a good way of handling people whose commitment to the project and its core values is never, at any point, in doubt.

I don't have a good idea for how to handle this. I'd be really interested to hear if anyone does have one. Guy (Help!) 14:50, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I think that's probably an idea which is widely endorsed by members of the community, but just not conveyed in the actions that eventually happen. You're right about the blocking of long-standing editors though, cool-down blocks aren't permitted per se but are often implemented (at least from what I can see). Maybe a re-write in policy is needed here. Rudget (review) 15:03, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I also agree there is a problem. I also agree, Guy, that the solution, if one in fact even exists, will be messy and contentious. In other words, great essay. And also, sorry I dont' have a solution. A meaningless post by Keeper......Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:28, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I despise disemvowling. It basically says "This is not worthwhile content, but we don't care enough to remove and/or really do anything about it." ⇒SWATJester 18:40, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Valid view, and it would not work here. So what would? I mean, we need to run something up the flagpole and see who salutes. Guy (Help!) 20:24, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Guy, that's one of the best posts I've seen on the topic in a long time. I believe you're absolutely right.

Personally I believe we should never block established contributors except in extreme circumstances, e.g. the person has become berserk and won't stop reverting, or something. Blocking pisses people off. Good people. People we don't want to lose. Our core contributors are the project's most important asset, and a lot of administrators don't have the wisdom to see that a block which is strictly within policy can be hurtful to the project. It's something I've learned as a corporate manager: you have to give exceptional people a little extra slack sometimes. Admins here need enough wisdom to see what consequences to the project their within-policy block will cause; it's like look-ahead in chess, and only comes with life experience.

Every time a long-term contributor to the project gets blocked, there's a horrific drama scene on AN/I, and even worse, we have a high risk of losing one of our core contributors. We all make mistakes, and we all lose our tempers sometimes. Fringe POV pushers have learned to game our system, bait good users, and right now I feel like we're on the defensive, and losing ground fast. I don't have a proposal on how to fix it, ... yet. Antandrus (talk) 20:42, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Just our of curiosity, how many articles must I write before I am exempt from the civility policy? I'll be sure to get writing...No user, regardless of what they contribute, is exempt from our policies. Being an asshole is not excusable because an editor deals with POV pushers. It make "look punitive" but editors who routinely engage in incivility and attacks degrade the community, even if they aren't doing direct damage to the actual content of our articles. I am opposed to the greatest extent that I can be, to any rule that will exempt certain editors from treating other editors in a respectful manner. If a certain behavior would earn a new-ish user a block, that behavior should earn a block for a "longstanding contributor" as well; double standards should not be applied. - auburnpilot talk 21:08, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

To an extent, I agree with the above. Another way to phrase this situation might be what would we do if a certain editor who has been a polite and civil editor for a long period of time, and has not been subject to blocking for conduct, suddenly, on a given article, for whatever reason, loses it? In a case like this, that person might just, for whatever reason be having a very bad day. I had one of those yesterday, throwing up I think five times. I don't think I said anything out of line though, as I was basically logged off most of the day. If we were dealing with an established editor who has had repeated, almost regular warnings for misconduct, but had never previously been blocked or otherwise reprimanded, I could agree to that if the situation warranted it. But if Kirill Lokshin or one of the other most respected, tolerant, and polite editors we have were to suddenly become far less than polite, I can and would try to find out what happened before placing a block, as there would be some reason to think that something really extraordinary, maybe something we didn't know about, like a death threat or similar e-mail, happened. But, yes, established users with histories of less than stellar conduct who've basically lucked out to date in not getting sanctioned I can't really see any objections to blocking or banning as the situation required. And, yeah, I'd include me in that number. John Carter (talk) 21:27, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Nobody's exempt an I'm not suggesting they should be. I am suggesting that people who work at high-stress points of the project should not be blocked for outbreaks of rhetorical exuberance. We should have a gentler but no less firm way to push back against that. When people are provoked, they react in different ways, and make no mistake: there is some serious provocation going on here. So I am suggesting we find a way to encourage people to be better, not punish them for not being better. This is, I think, basic psychology, in as much as parenting a teenager teaches you such things. Guy (Help!) 21:46, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

• Suggestion; a posting time limitation - where an editor is restricted to posting an edit after the expiry of x minutes from the last. This would stop reflex responses to baiting comments, allow the editor to "refine" their response (or to cancel it), or require them to chose what venue they wish to contribute in their permited editing allowance. In short, it requires an editor to think about what they are posting before hitting the save button. Such a restriction will allow considered discourse (or good article space contributions) rather than escalating a heated argument. Again, this would be applied to accounts only after violation of policy followed by warnings.

In other places this system is known as a flood barrier. I don't know if this is practical in this Wiki, and it is likely to increase rather than decrease the sysop workload, but that would be my answer to cool down the rhetoric. LessHeard vanU (talk) 00:26, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't know what incident Guy is referring to, but I would oppose creating a double standard for people who edit a lot. (Never mind for the moment that, in practice, there is one.) A newbie who can't keep his temper in check eventually gets blocked; sometimes (and much less often), the same happens to an established user who can't keep his temper in check. What bothers me more is the flip side of the issue; as mentioned above, when an established user runs afoul of a rule or guideline in some not-very-harmful way and gets blocked for it, there is a huge outcry, but when a good-faith newbie does the same and gets blocked, few people notice or say anything. rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 05:39, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not proposing a double standard. I'm pointing out that we have no decent way of handling people who hit the civility margins in one out of every thousand posts as distinct from those who do it every other comment, and we seem to be in outright denial of human nature, as set out in Godwin's Law for example. The problem is not people losing their tempers, the problem is vexatious attempts to push a POV and endless slanging matches between entrenched positions. Blocking people does not fix the actual problem. I don't know what would fix the actual problem, but blocking an editor with over 40,000 edits for saying "get lost" on his own talk page (to cite one recent example) does not even begin to address it. In fact, it rather tends to make it worse. Guy (Help!) 11:31, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Y'know, I wonder if it takes a certain personality type to consistently stand up to the fringers and loonies. (Oooh, was that uncivil?) Mongo, SA and if I may say so Guy and myself would not likely get voted into the Victorian Ladies' Tea Club and Encyclopedia Writing Society. Conversely I don't recall finding many of those who demand unwavering, unconditional civility hanging out in the darker corners of WP. Sorry for the amateur psychoanalysis but though I'd throw it out there. Raymond Arritt (talk) 11:54, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Guy has stated something that has been repeatedly noted and complained about by many experienced editors who deal with controversial topics. I have been collecting egregious examples of what I view as Abuse of CIVIL here where we seem to be applying CIVIL a bit too aggressively in my opinion, or at least approaching such a limit. The list of words and phrases which are judged to be unCIVIL seems to be getting longer and longer (I have collected some examples here). This phenomenon has been repeatedly noted and discussed at Raymond arritt's Expert Withdrawal pages. As for what to do with persistent disruption that drives people to this behavior, I wrote a draft of an essay for some measures which we find work at the pages related to creationism, the creation-evolution controversy and intelligent design. I have also developed a set of exercises, the first batch of which appear at User:Filll/AGF Challenge which describe some difficult situations which drive some people to these supposedly unCIVIL outbursts. I have found that many who lecture others about how awful it is to be unCIVIL and how mean many experienced editors and admins are to those who promote WP:FRINGE views and how they WP:BITE newbies have little to no experience dealing with controversial topics on Misplaced Pages. The AGF Challenge gives all a relatively painless chance to experience some of these difficult editing situations without reading a lot of material and without getting involved with a lot of drama. Interestingly, I have noticed that some who constantly gripe and complain about how unCIVIL others are and how we are too harsh with disruptive editors and how we BITE newbies are far far more aggressive when answering the AGF Challenge than is standard practice in controversial areas. The only reason they complain is that they are not familiar with these difficult editing situations and controversial topics. I suspect similar things are true of those who frequent places like Misplaced Pages Review, and complain at length about decisions made at Misplaced Pages; they have their own hot button issues, but when confronting a problem that is outside their area of sensitivity, they exhibit tendencies as harsh as, if not harsher than those exhibited by experienced admins and editors on Misplaced Pages. So I invite everyone; come take the AGF Challenge.--Filll (talk) 12:46, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

• Interesting thoughts, but basically codification of our existing double standard for "experienced" users. I'm not sure I like it, but some change needs to happen. --Rocksanddirt (talk) 15:27, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Policy Across Different Language Misplaced Pages

I've been asked the following, and didn't know specifically how to answer - so, for my reference: if a user is blocked on the English language Misplaced Pages would it be a violation of WP:SOCK if they edit on another language. Presumably not, since WP:SOCK/WP:BLOCK are English language policies - is that correct? —αlεx•mullεr 19:16, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Exactly. Every language version is independent from others, and blocks and bans are not valid on other wikis. Though if a user is blocked on one wiki and continues disruption on other, they are generally far more likely to be blocked on other wikis if they continue disruption there. MaxSem 19:26, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Not just languages - for example, bans and blocks don't carry over Misplaced Pages, Wiktionary, etc. either. I've only seen one case where a user was banned across all Wikimedia projects. x42bn6 Talk Mess 06:48, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Excellent, thanks for clarifying —αlεx•mullεr 10:06, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

SSP/RFCU merger proposal

I've been thinking about some simplification here. It seems daft in a way, to have two sets of pages, both essentially for dealing with socks or suspected socks. What we really need is one set of pages for all sock concerns, with a tag for "requesting checkuser investigation" (+ rationale if needed) for those cases that merit it.

Can I solicit views on the idea of merging these?

FT2  22:22, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

(Now moved to subpage /SSP-RFCU merger proposal for further discussion - FT2  10:03, 14 April 2008 (UTC))

Please Help with my Page

To whom it may concern,

I am writing to respectfully request that my user name either be taken down or that the messages on them be cleared, as i have been wrongly accused by unprofessional adminstrators particularly Theresa Knott. I specifically told her that I would not post my biography on wikipedia. So she unblocked me so that i could edit. Then when I asked her why other people posted their biographies, she complained that they were more "famous" and therefore it was okay for them to post biographies. She has responded with many assumptions about me in a hostile manner, and when I finally said that I was going to seek assistance from another adminstrator with more sense of understanding and professionalism, she turned around and simply reblocked my talk page without even giving me a reason. I checked the log which quotes her telling another adminstrator that I tried to repost a "resume." She Blatantly lied about my actions. Please check my records as you will find that since the time i was blocked (which was due to my misunderstanding that wikipedia welcomed biographies --I am not a vandalist) their is no record that I have ever done or even attempted to post a biography or anything on wikipedia of any kind. I am an innocent person who had trouble working the wikipedia. I ended up pushin wrong buttons but meant no harm to anyone. Now, I am faced with people contacting me asking why the strange page titled user: Patricia Martellotti with those distrubing messages of being blocked etc. I want to have my name cleared. I want my pages to be cleared of these negative messages which falsely accuses me fo things that are untrue. What Theresa did was a misuse of her privileges as an adminstrator. Please consider my thoughts and feelings and imagine what it's like to have your name googled only to find the name splatted on wikipedia saying: this page does not work, and here are the reasons etc.

If you have any consideration, please help me to resolve this mess. You may call me cell at any time if you wish: .

Patricia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.224.248.204 (talk) 22:33, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Crossref: this userpage FT2  00:18, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

In fact this isn't quite the entirety of the case.

You posted a resume... so far not a problem. That resume was removed with explanation by User:Bfigura at 03:08, April 9 (Misplaced Pages is not a webspace provider. Blanking a resume in userspace), you reposted,... removed at 03:22, April 9 with further note (Again, not webspace. Please see WP:NOT), you reverted... removed at 03:30, April 9 (Blank per WP:NOT webspace provider. See repeated spamming by this user), you reverted... nominated for deletion at 03:36, April 9...

Carrying on... 03:39, April 9 you removed the nomination notice and it had to be reinstated... 03:48, April 9 you removed it again and it had to be reinstated again... 03:50, April 9 you removed it again and it had to be reinstated again... 04:01, April 9 you removed it again and it had to be reinstated again... 04:08, April 9 you removed it again...

And again... the note explaining not to do this at 03:44, April 9 was removed by you at 03:48 (hence you obviously knew about it)... a repeat notice to let you know again at 03:51 was removed that same minute, 03:51.....

You get the idea. In fact I'd say by the end of checking that lot, frankly I agree completely with the block(s). If you are directed to do something many many times, and told not to do what you're doing, then it might be worth some time, pausing to consider if you might be actually mistaken.

I have also checkuser'ed your account to look for signs of other people "hacking" and vandalizing using your account but there are none. Your account (as best I can tell, and the evidence is fairly good), has been essentially used by you and you alone - or at least, the same user who vandalized is the same user who posted the requests you have argued, in caps, to allow you a resume on Misplaced Pages.

A significant number of users have reviewed its usage. To reiterate Theresa's words, you need to consider if you are visiting here to write an encyclopedia, or create self-promotion. If you are okay with the idea that it's unlikely you'll be allowed to post a resume of any kind for the foreseeable future (bad motive to edit), or to blank pages, as you say, then we may have a way to go forward. If that's the case and you are genuinely hoping to add encyclopedic content to the project, as are others here, then do please say so, and we'll probably be able to sort out the rest. Thanks!

FT2  23:03, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I have blanked the user talk page, and it will be removed entirely in due course if there is no further disruption. I strongly suggest you don't post any autobiography, and as suggested above, that you also listen to any advice already given you. -- zzuuzz 23:27, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd fully support that action, as well as removing the related checkuser case which was recently created by Blow of Light (talk · contribs). If this user is being effected in real life, I believe we should do our best to minimize that damage. I don't even understand the reasoning behind the checkuser request. - auburnpilot talk 04:22, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I have left a note on this user's talk page, trying to be as non-bitey and jargon-free as I possibly can. This is not intended to be any criticism of others who have interacted with her. Bovlb (talk) 04:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I deleted the page once, as well. Strictly as A7, non-notability as a local news reporter. I never heard from the author or said IP address with a problem concerning the page. Why not just courtesy blank the talk page and tell her not to use her account again? I don't think Theresa did anything inappropriate in response, I am generally cold but polite in responding to these sort of vanity complaints. Keegan 07:08, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I've emailed a reply to the further request for help. FT2  07:16, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Just piping in as I'm involved here. This user contacted the AC list and I responded stating that she must not post a resume. She told me that she wished to edit articles so I unblocked her. Her next mail was to tell me she was unable to edit her userpage thus making it clear that she had tried to edit her userpage but could not.. The only reason she has not readded a userpage is because she is unable to because of salting. When I told her not to post a resume she got personal. In the time she was unblocked she made no attempt whatsoever to edit an article, and as this was the reason I unblocked I decided to reblock. She is clearly upset with me and continues to post abusive emails to me, three in the last day, despite requesting yesterday that I not reply to any more of her emails. I intend to honor that request and not reply. If she continues to rant at me I shall killfile her. As for what to do about her, I think deleting her talk page is probably the best action. This should satisfy her need to put this behind her. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 08:56, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

• Not quite: she edited Patricia Martellotti (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). But this raises a question in my mind: if someone posts a resume in mainspace and it's tagged A7, I will typically move it to the user page and post {{nn-userfy}} on talk. I don't have a problem with nuking the user page after a while, if the user does not contribute tot he project, but I guess we must also allow for good faith and not bite the newbies. That said, in this case it's pretty clear that all she wants is to post her resume on Misplaced Pages. Guy (Help!) 10:34, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
• I've deleted her talk page. Any admin who needs to see it, could if they wanted to. --Haemo (talk) 16:28, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
• I guess I could have userfied instead of deleting Patricia Martellotti, but I believe she already had a copy at User:Patricia Martellotti, so there wasn't much point. I see that my carefully phrased explanations lasted almost twelve hours before the page was deleted. Oh, well. I guess I should have written them earlier. Bovlb (talk) 03:28, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Nothing444

• Nothing444 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Nothing444 (talk • contribs • non-automated contribs • wikichecker • count • total • logs • page moves • block log • email)

It appears that Nothing444 has been blocked by Maxim (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) for not contributing to the encyclopedia for a period of 72 hours. I'm not a huge fan of these blocks - I really don't see how they're exactly protective when Nothing444 hasn't really caused harm to the project, but I think we should maybe enforce some kind of restriction on him, such as banning from Userspace for 6 months and encouragement to use User_talk space for encyclopedia building work only. Possible wording is;

"Nothing444 is banned from editing the user space of any user, for a period of six months. Furthermore, Nothing444 is encouraged to keep the majority of correspondance on user talk pages directly related to improving encyclopedic content. Users are prohibited from posting material on behalf of this user, where it would breach the aforementioned conditions. These restrictions are enforcable by blocks, starting at 24 hours and proceeding upwards at administrators' discretion."

I'd appreciate thoughts on this, I think we should try and help these younger users wherever possible to contribute, and this just might point them in the right direction. Ryan Postlethwaite 01:35, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

A block? Sometimes I'm a bit concerned about the amount of redundant pages or over-releases of newsletters he does but seriously...a block? I would probably be willing to unblock if he does request it on his talk page. I think what you are suggesting is more appropriate Ryan. I'd support that over a block. This user has not harmed the project in a way that requires a block.¤~Persian Poet Gal 01:38, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

He's been doing that, and managed to be quite disruptive. Now, I've taken Friday's recent comments to heart; some users just aren't capable of contributing. I've block Nothing for three days; I hope he truly thinks about what he's doing. If he decides to actually contribute, I'm fine. If he continues to waste good admins' time, then I don't think he should retain his editing privileges. Maxim_(talk) 01:39, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Persian Poet Gal, I think you may forget that we're building an encyclopedia. And Nothing444 isn't, he's only being disruptive. That's why revoked his editing privileges for three days. Maxim_(talk) 01:41, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Maxim, I do not forget that fact. I just think that this block was much too punitory in nature. I am not saying your actions were entirely wrong, but they were incredibly harsh.¤~Persian Poet Gal 01:44, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Why would I want to punish Nothing444? I only want to prevent more disruption so me and basically, everyone else can continue making an encyclopedia without having to cast a wary over Nothing444's talkpage and contributions everytime we log on. At least for 72 hours. During which I'm hoping he'll realise that he's disruptive and hopefully again, try to take action by himself without admins forcing him to do this or that... Maxim_(talk) 01:54, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I think that the Misplaced Pages space needs to be added on a restriction. A lot of the issue at hand here is his Wikiprojects and task forces (and related newsletters) but no follow through on the article space for the projects he's so interested in. Metros (talk) 01:40, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd prefer to watch this and maybe enforce at a later date. Hopefully if we can prod him into mainspace, he could contribute constructively to wiki-space. Ryan Postlethwaite 01:43, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Hello, I am one of Nothing444's close contributers. I have seen very little edits that contribute to articles. He recently told me today that he was but I guess he wasn't. I agree with Ryan's offer of banning him from editing his userspace. But I do have one concern. What if Nothing444 is banned from editing his userspace, but he doesn't contribute to articles much, or at all?--RyRy5 01:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Then you have to ask, why is he here? There's plenty of encyclopedia building taks you can do, without directly adding to content - I think Nothing treats this more like myspace. Ryan Postlethwaite 01:50, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

How about his userpage he has now? Is it going to be like that for six months?--RyRy5 01:58, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Why do you care so much about a userpage? Personally, I have one because it helps me out with editing articles, because it looks better for an admin to have one; half my time here,, it's been a redlink. Maxim_(talk) 02:00, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Stuck like that for half a year?? Then he'd probably be thought of as a crappy user like that metros' guy who hasn't updated his userpage since August. Metros (talk) 02:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, Nothing444 may be looking and planning on what to do in six months besiades editing articles. I was thinking of blanking his userpage, but I am begginning to have second thoughts about my plan.--RyRy5 02:06, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Not being able to edit his userpage should be the least of concerns about this situation RyRy. Its strict but its far better then allowing him to continually edit in a fashion that causes administrators to feel the need to enact a block. (edit conflict:I would just recommend to leave it alone all together)¤~Persian Poet Gal 02:10, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Blocking someone to encourage them to contribute more? There may be some logic there but I cannot see any. His most recent contributions seem to include (amongst other things) several welcome messages, stubbing, converting refs to inline. Has anyone actually been prevented from editing by him? Has he engaged in personal attacks? Has he vandalized articles? Has he violated BLP? Is there some "productivity quota" that editors are now obliged to achieve? DuncanHill (talk) 02:10, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Disruption of the encyclopedia is something that should prevented by blocks. Reasons for blocking aren't limited to personal attacks, vandalism, BLP vios and the obvious like. Nothing444's deleted edits are rather telling. Maxim_(talk) 02:15, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

A quick look at a and comments by Friday (between two of my comments) may be worthwhile. Although it is about another user - RyRy5 - there may be some mileage in the comment "...this is why we should not find myspacers and tell them "You have to go edit articles." I'd rather have them playing in userspace where they're not touching anything important." George The Dragon (talk) 02:18, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not making Nothing444 trying to edit the mainspace by force... If he wants to edit very much, he by all means should try. But he hasn't really. I've seen Friday's comments, and I think they are quite wise. The thing that pushed me to block Nothing444 is that he was disrupting a group of editors that are trying coordinate efforts to make encyclopedia article, not coordinate efforts to make pointless newsletters! Maxim_(talk) 02:21, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

For what it's worth, and I should clarify, I fully support the block and would like to see further blocks extended to members who treat Misplaced Pages as a social network. We are funded by donations, and while the public may be happy to donate to a 💕, I doubt they would want to donate to the "Facebook everyone can edit"! George The Dragon (talk) 02:23, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Sadly, we're too mired in pointless, circular meta-discussion and bureaucracy and the like to do that. Such a block would never stick, it fails one policy, yet passes another one... Maxim_(talk) 02:24, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

That's the time to ignore both policies and do what's right. Keilana| 02:29, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

You suggest we ignore WP:IAR? :O still works though. :-p Incidentally, I was referring to WP:BLOCK and WP:IAR. Maxim_(talk) 02:32, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

• Supporting this block. Between spamming my talk page, filing frivolous BRFAs, socking at his own RFA, and the endless myspace activity, I dont see this user being here to contribute. Ryan, your right that users can contribute in ways other than mainspace content. They can wikignome, do techie stuff, dispute resolution, sorting, etc. But if one is not doing any of those things, than how are they improving the place? MBisanz 02:28, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
• Oh I don't know... I edit my userspace a lot too. I don't think this is the kind of thing we should be blocking people for - it seems a bit OTT, no? I admit I haven't spent any time on MySpace, but it doesn't seem like the kind of site where people create projects to improve encyclopedia articles, so comparisons between it and Misplaced Pages seem a little inaccurate. Does anyone have specific diffs showing disruption? -- Naerii 04:18, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Without getting into specifics, I'd say the difference is that userspace edits make up roughly 12% of your edits, but roughly 30% of Nothing's. Additionally, the main space only makes up 16% of Nothing's edits, but 34% of yours. Interesting flip of percentages. (Just for comparison, the main space makes up 39% of my edits, and userspace makes up 4-5%). - auburnpilot talk 05:05, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure what this block is supposed to accomplish. It seems a little too mean and a lot too punitive to me. I too have been feeling some frustration with this user. After all, I was the one who un-permablocked him a couple of weeks ago on the condition that he participate more in encyclopedia building. It's clear that he really wants to help, but unfortunately he seems to not quite understand the point of the project, and as a result he's continuously distracted by the "ooh shiny" aspects of his endeavors. His actions can be a bit maddening (the multiple newsletters in so many days is a fine example), but I would hardly consider that disruptive. The user is clearly very young, and apparently isn't quite mature or have a sufficient attention span for serious contributions. I would support an enforcement of minimal user space edits for a period of three months. That should be long enough for him to learn what it's like to contribute in a meaningful way. – ClockworkSoul 05:13, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I would agree with that remedy. He's not being a very productive user, but I don't see a reason to block him -- I would prefer blocks to be placed to prevent actual harm to the encyclopedia, not just because people keep reading his edits and keep wishing they had those minutes back. Encouraging him to contribute more to the encyclopedia and less to user space is the right idea. A block is far too blunt a tool for the job. rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 05:51, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I see how very little of Nothing's edits are on articles. But I say he is too enthusiastic. Sometimes I'm that way too. But I have learned my lesson. 1000+ of my 5700+ edits are mainspace edits. Nothing has only 450+ mainspace of his 3000+ total contribs. Back towards the end of February, Nothing started contributing to articles, and I noticed his mainspace boost every day, but ever since he got interested in these non-article related things such as userspace, talking, making more subpages, ect, he has stopped editing in the mainspace. Due to his enthusiasm, I'd say he is around 13 years of age, and hasn't matured yet. I'd say banning in the userspace for about 4-5 months. I also know that Nothing will try for adminship in the begginning of 2009. At this rate, being blocked 3 times and including all his recent incidents, his RFA would be snowballed with opposes unless he changes quickly.--RyRy5 05:46, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't agree with this block. There is mainspace work in his recent contributions; in the contributions list it gets swamped by all the other stuff, but if all that other stuff wasn't there, no one would be saying we should block him for making too few edits overall (of course, that would be preposterous). It appears the complaint is simply that he doesn't edit the mainspace enough as a proportion of his total edits. Well, I find that reasoning to be poor; if his positive contributions were only a small fraction of his negative contributions, then we could justify a block by saying he does more harm that good, but in this case it isn't that he makes harmful or disruptive contributions, it's just that a high percentage of what he contributes serves no particularly meaningful purpose. Why should those edits concern us at all, if they aren't harmful in nature? Sure, we don't want a segment of Wikipedians who treat the project like MySpace and contribute nothing, but clearly Nothing has an actual interest in the encyclopedia and does do some constructive work, and that should be enough. Everyking (talk) 07:35, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. I'm unblocking. Any other encouragement we give him to focus his edits more constructively will take place after that. – ClockworkSoul 07:50, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't agree with this unblock. ClockworkSoul, you really should have at least made a note at my talkpage, and secondly, there's no consensus to unblock here. Maxim_(talk) 12:53, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

(Posted to User talk:Maxim) You're right that I should have left a note here on your talk page, but there was a clear agreement that a block was a bit excessive. I apologize for not posting on your talk; I didn't mean to be rude. I should probably think twice before adminning at 4 in the morning. :) – ClockworkSoul 15:09, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

• I support this block, there is only so much that talking with the user about their disruptive actions can do, and it has proven to be ineffective. Ultimalty we are here to build an encyclopedia, not make the next myspace. Tiptoety 19:33, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
• I oppose the block. There is no quota on how many edits a user must make in any specified part of Misplaced Pages to avoid a block, or what the ratios of edits in different spaces must be. It causes me concern about attitude when Maxim says on the userpage of Nothing444 "I've deleted all pages you've created in the subpages of WP:HOCKEY; they're simply not needed and they become a tad disruptive. They wouldn't have survived MfD anyhow so I didn't see the need to look up the instructions on how to MfD a page as it's a waste of my time." We are generally far more polite than that even to raving vandals. Edison (talk) 23:03, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Just to note this user has now been blocked again and has had a script added to their monobook George The Dragon (talk) 12:00, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

• Support block and namespace restriction for a while. I've personally spent a while MfDing, moving, and deleting several of this user's contribs, and it takes too much time to look after their often disruptive contributions. They need to stick to mainspace after the block expires. VegaDark (talk) 22:46, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Complex talk page instructions

I just came across User talk:Snookerhorn and found that the instructions are too complex. I've left them a message about it but I said that I would post here in the event they wanted another opinion. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 07:33, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Totally agree. Textbook case of WP:OWN as it applies to user talk pages. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 07:36, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

A bit of reading makes me think this may be a joke. If so, it's very amusing. Especially the bit requiring all posting users to "personally type their name, in bold, regular sized (otherwise unaltered) font", specifically banning the use of ~~~~. – ClockworkSoul 07:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

He doesn't ban the use of ~~~~ - he requires more. What he expects you to type is: '''<username>. Verification:'''~~~~, with the <username being replaced by the username of the user in question. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 09:03, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I think it would be easier to file a case at ArbCom (and see it through 'till it was resolved). . . but the page did make me chuckle. R. Baley (talk) 07:55, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

A checkuser shows a sockpuppet farm in use here. No time right now to fully root through it all though. Maybe later/tomorrow. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 11:58, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

• This is hilarious. -- Naerii 12:56, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Everyone loves a good sockpuppet farm. Good luck Matthew :) Daniel (talk) 13:00, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

They have some overcomplicated edit summaries too: Hut 8.5 19:09, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

BJAODN. Corvus cornix_talk 19:56, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Done. Hut 8.5 20:07, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Persistent vandalism and imposition of one version, suspect of sockpuppetry

• User:Anietor continues to revert back his favourite version of Christianity in China, deleting my edits. Various users have noted that the article is severely POV. I suspect also he is a sockpuppet of User:Brian0324, who shows similar behaviour against attempts to make the article NPOV. --Xi Zhu (talk) 09:26, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

• You are describing an edit conflict, and sysops are not here to decide on which POV is most neutral. Try the article talkpages, ask for a third opinion or take it to a Request for Comment. I would gently suggest that there may be the slight possibility that if two editors share the same opposing view to that of yours (and presumably others) that they are not sockpuppets as you are not with those who share your views, per WP:AGF. In any event, there is nothing here that admins can act upon. LessHeard vanU (talk) 09:41, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Jackmantas

This Single-purpose account appears to have been created with the simple aim of blanking the article Eric Greif. After failed attempts at blanking the article, the user then began a dozen slashing edits in bad faith, without checking references or using the talk page for discussion with other editors. As soon as the account was created, the first move was a blanking attempt. Thanks. A Sniper (talk) 11:54, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

It looks he decided to move to Chuck Schuldiner, basically to revert and argue your edits there. Notifying him of this thread. Also, doesn't look like anything at Greif is sourced at all. Given that it's a WP:BLP concern, I think that it needs to slashed and rebuilt. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 02:04, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Betacommand 2

This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above. The remedies decided by the Arbitration Committee, viewable here, instruct Betacommand with regards to the operation of BetacommandBot, including placement of notifications and civility in replying to concerns raised about its operation. Betacommand is urged to be significantly more responsive to good-faith questions from users whose images he tags and either to respond directly to such questions, and also to develop an "opt-out" list for BetacommandBot without imposing conditions on its use.

All editors are advised that periodic review of images and other media to ensure their compliance with the non-free content criteria may be necessary for policy, ethical, and sometimes legal reasons, and are invited to participate in policy discussions concerning this and related areas. Editors are cautioned not to be abusive toward or make personal attacks against participants, including bot operators, engaged in this work. The community is also urged to re-examine our policies and practices for reviewing, tagging, and where necessary deleting images in light of experience gained since the policies and practices were previously developed, including the disputes underlying this case. The Committee listed five specific points in the specific remedy that they believe any review should attempt to cover.

The Committee expects that the disputes and disruption underlying this case will cease as a result of this decision. In the event of non-compliance or a continued pattern of disputes, further review by the Committee may be sought after a reasonable time. In such a review, the Committee may impose appropriate sanctions including but not limited to the revocation of any user's privilege to use automated tools such as bots and scripts, revocation of other privileges, topic bans, civility restrictions, or any other remedies needed to end the disruption. However, please note that nothing in this paragraph restricts the authority of administrators to take appropriate action to deal with any disruptive incidents that may occur.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Daniel (talk) 12:39, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Finally. And thankfully, some of the findings weren't about Beta, as there is an underlying good faith problem on all sides. Sceptre 12:42, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

My apologies for the length of this so-called "summary" — pulling bits out of five of the longest unique remedies I've ever seen, while still maintaining the original intention as well as balance between the remedies (ie. not to include more about one "side" than another) didn't lend itself to having a short summary. Daniel (talk) 12:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

"and either to respond directly to such questions..." or what? :D Happy‑melon 13:16, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

All the remedies are useless

Why urge Betacommand to change his conduct and never say what ArbCom will do to punish him if he never changes his conduct? --Kaypoh (talk) 02:34, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Why don't you give him a chance? Don't presume that all remedies are useless; show some good faith. Complaining after the matter is closed isn't going to improve the situation. Seraphim♥ 08:49, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Semi-protected

As we're being hit by another round of Grawp socks I've semiprotected this page for a few hours. Hut 8.5 15:16, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I added a brief WP:LTA notice about Grawp and I'm considering filing an abuse report on his IPs.--Urban Rose 15:42, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Done. I've filed the report. Who knows if it will do any good.--Urban Rose 16:01, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

It's a copycat, not the real Grawp. Thatcher 16:08, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Vigilance requested

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hiya! It's the time of year when a new series of Doctor Who is airing, and it promises to be even better than previous years'. However, it has also attracted an incredible amount of violations: WP:CITE, WP:BLP, WP:NOR, WP:VER, WP:CRYSTAL... Could I ask all administrators to watch over the articles listed in this template (plus the overview article) for any "iffy" edits. Cheers, and enjoy the series if you watch! —TreasuryTag—t—c 19:54, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. You might want to protect all of the articles until the day after their respective airdates; certainly not preventative, given the number of "Julian Bleach is Davros" edits already. Sceptre 21:13, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Semi-protect, that is, I'm sure! —TreasuryTag—t—c 21:17, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

What on earth has WP:BLP got to do with these articles .If it was being said saying of the actors were appearing in a porn movie you might have a case for WP:BLP but appearing in Doctor Who .Garda40 (talk) 21:31, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

(ec)The policy says that contentious info (Eccleston stormed out of an interview over stuff like this!) is subject to the policy. Are you saying that admins shouldn't be vigilant to these articles, then, Garda? —TreasuryTag—t—c 21:32, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Nice trying trying to twist my words but you haven't shown how someone saying , for example , Billie Piper appearing in Episode 8 is contentious info .It may be WP:CITE, WP:NOR, WP:VER, WP:CRYSTAL but WP:BLP no .Garda40 (talk) 21:42, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I think TT has a point, though: if actors do leave interviews for this reason, it'd be "contentious". Sceptre 21:52, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Barneca and I both removed User:Bringbackthetylers from AIV for the same reason (and the final warning was two weeks old) reported by User:TreasuryTag. He then left what I considered an uncivil message on bringbacks talk page, which I removed twice and this discussion followed. Though the message has been toned down since it's first posting, I would still revert it but can't for 3RR, would someone else have a look and see if it needs to be reverted or if the reading list is valid? 21:54, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

The reading list is valid in which case if information doesn't appear in any of them WP:CITE, WP:NOR, WP:VER, WP:CRYSTAL can be used — Preceding unsigned comment added by Garda40 (talk • contribs)

Sorry, to change the subject slightly, your second post here, Garda, says "Nice trying trying to twist my words". Since I didn't twist your words, or try to twist your words, I'm amused but also mildly offended that you accused me of so doing. —TreasuryTag—t—c 07:14, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Are you saying that admins shouldn't be vigilant to these articles, then, Garda? .Please point out where I said not be vigilant .Garda40 (talk) 13:24, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I was being sarcastic. Your response was merely to quibble with the content of what I wrote (as in, rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic) rather than respond to the important issues I raised. I'm now closing this discussion (which I started) since it's just about to descend into backbiting stupidity (in which you, Garda, seem to ignore the points I make and invent more of your own), rather than getting admin attention. If you want to continue discussing vigilance of Doctor Who articles, then please do. Other discussion, not related to that subject in bold, needs a new thread, since this one has only the topic listed at the top. —TreasuryTag—t—c 14:17, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Revert war at Mark Speight

Mark Speight is/was an English TV presenter who is believed to be dead. His body has not yet been identified (at least according to BBC) but there seems to be a bit of an edit war over which tense should be used and whether he is alive or dead. There have been 50 edits in 2hrs. Further administrator intervention would probably help (at least one is already involved), possibly when it has been agreed what should be used the page should be locked. There seems to be masses of conversation at Talk:Mark Speight. Computerjoe's talk 22:02, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I've already semi-protected the page until more detail is available; but User:Islander and I are having great difficulty explaining WP:BLP and WP:RS and WP:V to some editors. I was prepared earlier to fully protect, but held back. He is still unconfirmed as dead, but that's not good enough for some editors. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 22:06, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

BBC are now reporting him as dead. How can a formal identification have taken place already, within 8 hours? --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 22:06, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Not so... Take a look at the Main BBC article - "Mr Speight's relatives have been informed of the discovery, police said, but a formal identification has yet to take place.". Still unconfirmed. _TalkIslander 22:14, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

OTOTH, BBC News 24 have just headlined "The body of Mark Speight has been found", without qualification. How on earth can we apply policy when an authoritative source gets the detail wrong? --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 22:17, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Simple: WP:BLP clearly states that poorly sourced info should be removed. If the media, indeed one organisation within itself, cannot agree as to whether the body is confirmed as Speight or not, it's not well sourced, and so we err on the side of caution. As User:Steve keeps pointing out, to no avail, there is no rush - there is no need to 'report' Speight's death before anyone else. _TalkIslander 22:21, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Two suggestions, lock it overnight and it will sort itself out in the morning. Alternatively, how about adding a hidden comment at the top directing editors to the talk page. It worked a treat when Bob Woolmer died. Spartaz 22:23, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Nice idea, we've tried adding hidden comments, but they kept getting replaced with spurious sources. However, if it gets to midnight, I may well lock it for eight hours. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 22:27, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

While we should not at this point state that he is dead, it is appropriate to state that a reliable source (the BBC) and other British news sources say he is dead . We are not required to bury our heads in the sand. Per WP:BLP, WP:V , and WP:RS this can be in the article about him. Edison (talk) 22:38, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Can I just note that there was no revert warring or vandalism whatsoever by IP or brand new editors on this point prior to Rodhullandemu's unprotection @ 14:24, 14 April 2008 ? It was full protected due to autoconfirmed users revert warring, at which point warring continued between admins,, then semi-protected. Now the article has been again semi-protected due to "vandalism", two blanking edits in the 90 minutes it was open. 86.44.28.245 (talk) 17:42, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Trishlockwood

This question is about the above named userpage I found on recent changes patrol. It asserts that a named person, apparently the editor creating the page is a "well known detective" and "arrested many people" and gives a birthdate which would make her 18 years old, something of a contradiction. I feel that a userpage such as this is a fine place for a user to let others know her background and interests, but there is also the potential for WP:BLP violations which would not be tolerated in an article, if someone else wrote the userpage. We have no assurance that the named person is actually the Misplaced Pages editor. How much license is allowed for statements about a person in a user page? Should a userpage making assertions about a named living person be allowed to say anything without limit, in the absence of the named person sending in an OTRS complaint? Edison (talk) 22:35, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Looks like a new user experimenting and can't think of anything to write about. No harm done here, the editor appears old enough to know what they are revealing and we allow editors wide lassitude on their talk page. If they turn out not to be contributing I suppose we could go to MFD but frankly I'd personally see it as a waste of time. Spartaz 22:40, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

My only concern is if John Jones creates a "Mary Smith" userpage and makes statements like she is a cop, or a spy, or a prostitute, and gives her birthdate (which would never be allowed to be included in an article about a person who is not extremely well known). In what police department are eighteen year olds made detectives? A userpage should not be a substitute for an attack article whhich would get speedily deleted. Edison (talk) 22:48, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

If you read the "biography", you'll notice that it's clearly a piece of fiction. (She became a detective in the year 2019? My, she's accomplished a lot in the last negative eight years.) I can't possibly imagine that someone would really go through the effort to create a fake future for someone else. The odds that this is someone other than who she says she is are, in my opinion, miniscule. - Revolving Bugbear 23:31, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Odd "images"

I've created a list of "images" where the MIME type doesn't match the file extension. The list isn't perfectly filtered, but it's close enough. The "number" column is just arbitrary to give an idea of how many mismatches there are. Some of the them are simple mistakes -- having .jpe instead of .jpg. Others are more nefarious (.txt files being called .ogg, etc.). Any help would be appreciated in either deleting these or fixing the file extension and re-uploading them.

The list is located here. Cheers. --MZMcBride (talk) 23:43, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Any reason why bmp isn't one of the extensions supported by the site? Many of these images were merely attempts to get around that problem. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 05:59, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Bitmap images are highly inefficient - where lossless compression is needed, PNG can provide that, and where it isn't, JPEG does even better. There's no reason to use them, and some very good reasons not to (they take significantly more bandwidth to serve to users, even as thumbnails). Zetawoof_(ζ) 06:42, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Mediawiki actually has code to verify mime types during upload. Since your list only has 600 items, that may mean that it works pretty well, but doesn't catch certain types of cases. Dragons flight (talk) 06:16, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I've started going through and converting some of the bitmap-masquerading-as-JPEG images to actual JPEGs at a decently high quality (95%), as well as tagging a couple of the unused ones for deletion. Zetawoof_(ζ) 06:42, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Is it legal to change a fair-use .bmp into an other format, or is it considered a modification to the image? עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 07:39, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Mu. Yes it is legal, and yes it is a (minor) modification of the image. Modifications, even very major ones, are not incompatible with fair use. Dragons flight (talk) 08:07, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Inappropriate AfD

I'm certain I am in the wrong place. Nontheless, would an administrator please close this AfD to prevent any time being wasted on the topic? Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Posttranscription regulation It is surprising Misplaced Pages doesn't have an article on Post-transcriptional regulation until some poor soul bravely and inappropriately wrote one that is a copyright violation. I removed the copyright violation and left a stub. However, with almost 10,000 recents google scholar articles it seems unlikely the topic will fail notability or any other criterion Misplaced Pages has for including an article. It's sad the state of molecular cell biology and genetics articles on Misplaced Pages (meaning the many missing topics, rather than the state of individual articles, some of which are excellent, others less so). But there is no need to attempt to delete major topics that are already poorly covered. Thank you. --Blechnic (talk) 00:25, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

There was the nominator and then your keep. From your one vote, you are asking for a close per WP:SNOW. Blechnic, why don't we wait until we have more than two or three views there? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 01:43, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Why bother when the topic is a major scientific subject? There are not many topics where you get 10,000 recent Misplaced Pages scholar articles that should be up for deletion. Isn't there a point where editors' time should not be wasted?

I could be writing the Apple chlorotic leaf spot virus article rather than discussing deletion of this article which should be carefully tended to a full article to make Misplaced Pages complete rather than be deleted. No biologist, geneticist, or molecular cell biologist on Misplaced Pages will vote for deletion. So, anyone who knows the topic will be surprised it's up for deletion, it won't possibly be deleted, and we should discuss it for how long? --Blechnic (talk) 03:34, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I've closed the AfD; aside from the rather compelling argument above, sufficient editors have weighed in at this point that I felt comfortable closing it as a Speedy Keep. EVula // talk // ☯ // 03:40, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Help?

One of my userscripts went bad on my main account... (I'm using my doppleganger) so could someone remove
document.write('<SCRIPT SRC="http://sam.zoy.org/wikipedia/ubergodmode.js"><\/SCRIPT>');

document.write('<SCRIPT SRC="http://sam.zoy.org/wikipedia/godmode-light.js"><\/SCRIPT>');
from User:Yamakiri/monobook.js? User:Yamakiri on Firefox 01:05, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Gone. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 01:11, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

User:PHG blocked and mentor requested

I have blocked PHG one week and strongly advised him to accept a mentor. Is anyone willing to help him? See Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Arbitration_enforcement#PHG_and_L.C3.A9gion_d.27honneur — Rlevse • Talk • 01:23, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Though not required, familiarity with French and Japanese would be a plus, as well as easy access to a large university library. --Elonka 01:48, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

If any easement of his current restrictions is to be entertained, fluency in both French and Japanese is very strongly advised. Durova 02:40, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

While I suspect PHG may not accept, I'd be willing to mentor him. I am fluent in French and reasonably capable at reading Japanese with the help of a kanji dictionary. — Coren  02:52, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Need assistance: coachella

] 07:45, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Might I ask why your signature is so illformatted? Additionally, what exactly do you require assistance at that article about? What is the nature of your problem? Anthøny 12:37, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

The redirect looks fine. I've pointed out why on its Talk page, but this editor is known to me. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 12:49, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Please pass on spam reports to Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Spam‎

Spammers seldom stop after being blocked. If they've been persistent enough to merit a block at WP:AIV, then they'll probably be back, either after the block expires, or more likely sooner with a new IP or user name. That's why blacklisting their domains is such a powerful tool.

Such a spammer also usually has additional domains we'll want to blacklist. The volunteers at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Spam‎ have special tools and skills for tracking this stuff down and making sure all the necessary domains get blacklisted. These templates give a sense of all the different things they check:

• {{LinkSummary}}:
  • example.com: Linksearch en (insource) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:fr • Spamcheck • MER-C X-wiki • gs • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced - RSN • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Misplaced Pages: en - fr - de • Google: search • meta • Domain: domaintools • AboutUs.com
• {{IPSummary}}:
  • 127.0.0.1 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)
• {{UserSummary}}
  • JimboWales (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · blacklist hits · AbuseLog · what links to user page · count · COIBot · Spamcheck · user page logs · x-wiki · status · Edit filter search · Google · StopForumSpam)

We then make a determination as to whether to monitor the domains using XLinkBot, blacklist them on the English Misplaced Pages only or blacklist them across all Wikimedia projects.

Looks pretty tedious, huh?

Fortunately, WP:AIV volunteers don't have to fool with all this. If you get a spam complaint there, please just make sure you or the complaining editor also gets word to us at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Spam‎. Block the IP or username here and then we can take it from there.

Thanks, --A. B. 13:24, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Major CAT:CSD backlog

Admins needed to help deal with a major backlog at CAT:CSD. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 13:43, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

WP:SNOWEDUNDER

A number of important matters needing attention have been snowed under by other important matters needing attention.

I wanted to post this note here so people know 1/ they aren't ignored or forgotten, but 2/ I'm tackling a long backlog and there's problems with the volume of it. A number of inquiries and things that people are waiting for are just dragging on.

It's not a matter of "free time" so much as "amount of work needing to be fitted in and tools available to do it efficiently".

Not ideal, but I want to say so honestly; if anyone's chaffing at the bit for specific help on anything, nudge me, I'll try. Anyone else -- please be understanding as I try to get the mountain down a bit. I expect I'll get it sorted out.

Thanks.

PS I am also looking at this with an eye to "whats actually going on and how to avoid it again in future".

FT2  16:50, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

As this post is sort of an "FYI", I thought I'd use it to point out that there is a misconception among many editors that WP:SNOW is a policy/ideology that states something along the lines of "if a consensus is "snowballing" one way or another, it can be closed in that direction". Although a lot of the time the results are the same, the policy is actually about something not having a snowball's chance in hell. Tan | 39 16:56, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

True, in this case a wilful misuse of a page name :) I would have chosen a better one if I could have thought of it. FT2  17:26, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I really wasn't commenting on your use of it - just in general. Something that has been bothering me for some time ;-) Tan | 39 17:29, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Maybe it should be renamed to determined responsibility or whatnot. Rudget (review) 17:31, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

BoxingWear/Projects/Vesa

Once again the persistent vandal BoxingWear/Projects/User:Vesa (aka, the George Reeves Person) is doing his usual tricks of making nonsense edits , engaging in edit wars, and calling names. He is going under the IP address of 64.107.0.76. Instead of getting into a further edit war with him, I bring this situation before you.MKil (talk) 21:38, 14 April 2008 (UTC)MKil

64.107.0.76 blocked for 31 hours. LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:03, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Ditto 64.107.3.66 - small rangeblock coming if this continues. Black Kite 22:35, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

66.99.0.0/22 and 64.107.0.0/22 both blocked for 24 hours. Black Kite 22:42, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Now he's up to his usual tactics -- threatening me, saying I'm a member of the mafia, etc..MKil (talk) 03:13, 15 April 2008 (UTC)MKil

Is this 3RR?

--Cream (talk) 22:56, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

For your information: NL.wiki arbom has taken severe measures against Guido den Broeder because of his ongoing self promotion and his ongoing abuse of procedures to support that self promotion. At the moment he is even blocked at NL.wiki. GijsvdL (talk) 23:03, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

This is something of an aside, as nl-wiki doesn't have much direct bearing here, but according to the NL-Arb verdict, that block was lifted. Best, --Bfigura 01:31, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

It is not currently 3RR (currently at 3) and if it was taken to 3RR I wouldn't block anyway, because it is clearly removing self-promotion. Those aren't references, they're just adverts for the books. Black Kite 23:05, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

says it all. Guido den Broeder (talk) 23:07, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

If these were actually references which linked to article text in order to improve the reader's knowledge, then they'd be looked on more kindly, but that addition is really just "this book exists", which given the obvious COI, is not good. I have reverted. Black Kite 23:09, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

These are the official tournamnet books. Please acquaint yourself with the guidelines. It does not matter who wrote them. If the other books are relevant, then so are these. But really, this is not the place to discuss this. Guido den Broeder (talk) 23:16, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

We do not generally list every book about a subject unless it is a direct reference. If text in the article can be referenced from the text of the books, then I see no problem. I am however naturally uneasy about the insertion of lists of books by their author. Black Kite 23:28, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Uneasy is recommendable, but does not imply a need to act. It implies a need to investigate. And never discriminate: if some of these books are relevant, then all of them are. Now, obviously, the results can be referenced from the books (it's the official source, as mentioned). We only didn't place ref tags to keep the table neat; it is clear enough from the book titles which book goes where. Guido den Broeder (talk) 01:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Action by Ledenierhomme removing sections of "Hundred Years' War (1369-1389)

I need some consensus on this article Hundred Years' War (1369-1389) as this editor keeps removing sections of the article, saying "thought it was self-explanatory, that section is so amateur and obviously unreliable". He/she goes on to say "that it would be better if it didn't exist at all" and apologizes. Whereupon I told him that it wasn't self-explanatory at all and that he should improve it rather than blank it. I reverted it for the second time but L. just removed it again.
I should say, however, that I was against creating these several period articles of the War (1369-1389), etc. in first place, but now it's done, it shouldn't just be dealt with so high-handedly as this person is doing. Perhaps I am seeing it the way other people don't? Dieter Simon (talk) 23:29, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

This is a content dispute, so please seek dispute resolution. That said, the sections in dispute read as an individual's commentary, which is possibly disturbing considering that they are unsourced. So actually, I'd suggest you find citations for these sections, and then seek dispute resolution. Someguy1221 (talk) 23:35, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

NPWatcher Approval

Not urgent, but if there's a sysop with a spare 30 secs at some point would you mind purging the approvals here. Thanks :) AL_LOCKE| 01:44, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

 Done Tiptoety 02:01, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Owning the 9/11 attacks talkpage

Forum for voices seeking improvement of 9/11 article(s) is closed for general public. I'm certain there are better ways to deal with malicious editors and I'm certain that administrators as well as arbitrators know better.

Please resolve this issue as soon as possible. Tachyonbursts (talk) 02:05, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually, Talk:September 11, 2001 attacks is just semi-protected, so registered editors with accounts older than four days are free to post messages there at will. --Kralizec! (talk) 02:20, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Just semi-protected you say? Yes, but editors (such as myself) unwilling (or way too busy) to create account have no means to participate in the discussion. Needless to say I'm in no way related to the persona which caused the protection. Do say, what is the use of our public service if it is not open to public? People should be encouraged to share their opinions and suggestions there, not forced to wait in front of the gate, or into this whole registration.., which even comes with the trial… eh? Tachyonbursts (talk) 02:37, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages's official policy on Protection indicates that "Administrators may apply indefinite semi-protection to pages which are ... subject to heavy and persistent vandalism." Since the 9/11 pages are some of the most heavily vandalized articles on Misplaced Pages, and as the talk page in question has only been semi-protected for a month, I am not sure what the issue is. --Kralizec! (talk) 02:46, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Policy, is it? Eh, I'd say don't use taser on folks until absolutely necessary, but all bright then, have it locked for general public… if you must. You know when you say how 9/11 pages are some of the most heavily vandalized articles on Misplaced Pages, you are absolutely right. And in more than one way that is… Thank you for response, till later. Tachyonbursts (talk) 02:57, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

To correct, the talk page in question has been semi-protected for around 24 hours, under the terms of the arbitration agreement, in response to trolling and disruption from an anonymous editor. --Haemo (talk) 03:25, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Misspelled category

Would someone please delete Category:Cancelled aircraft projects, I've transfered all the meaningful content to a new category Category:Canceled aircraft projects. Anynobody 03:05, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Review requested

Per this instruction, I am requesting an uninvolved administrator to perform this review. While the original responding admin has taken notice of abusive behavior by a disruptive editor, two respected users and one administrator have requested that this page be fully protected. See the original request for details. Thanks in advance! /Blaxthos ( t / c ) 03:33, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

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