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Revision as of 00:18, 13 May 2008

Mark Hanau

Mark Hanau (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

WP:COI, "An article about a little-known band should preferably not be written by a band member or the manager." The article about Mark Hanau is written and edited by someone saying he's Mark Hanau (see comments in user contributions) and using Mark Hanau's website, aimultimedia.com. Editor has also edited or created numerous pages w/subjects he has a close personal connection to like airconditioning, saturnalia, curved air, liquid light shows, John Vickers, and Academy of Live and Recorded Arts. WP:NOTE Article does not establish notability of subject as per guidelines "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". WP:VER, claims not verifiable, some claims conflict with published accounts. Editor/subject uses as a source in this article and in other edited articles, but artistopia.com has Misplaced Pages as source. Before I deleted it, (http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=NME_Awards&oldid=209579910), subject placed an image of an invitation to an awards event and represented it as an actual award. WP:SOAPBOX, Aimulti/Hanau is engaging in self-aggrandizement I think by exaggeration, has claimed to have co-founded Paul McCartney's McCartney Productions, established a school (ARLA), won awards, and met "Berthold (sic) Brecht" with no support. WP:NOTMYSPACE, editor using Misplaced Pages to showcase himself. WP:PSTS, editor using primary sources without secondary source backup, such as a college prospectus to establish he "founded" the college 'tho secondary sources give different story. WP:OR, editor/subject scans primary documents and submits them via his company website, aimultimedia.com. WP:Living Many, like example Aimulti claims an actor is his daughter without source. RetroS1mone (talk) 04:28, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I did so with my daughters full permission. She is as angry about this slur as I am.Aimulti (talk) 15:26, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Again, please keep in mind that disclosure of personal information for any reason is in violation of Misplaced Pages's living persons policies. Keepcalmandcarryon (talk) 00:22, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

You refer to RetroS1mone as 'she'. May I ask how you knew this editor was female?Aimulti (talk) 15:31, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Admittedly, I don't, but the name "Simone" is female AFAIK. One could also ask why you assumed the editor was male, but the gender of your critic is irrelevant. Keepcalmandcarryon (talk) 00:21, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Lets stop pretending. I know who you are. Keeponkeepingon is your usual handle and you have hounded me for years on Yahoo Answers etc, etc. I took me I while to figure it out (must be getting old). Feel free to deny it (as I am sure you will) but we both know what this is about. Quite frankly I don't really care one way or another now that I know the nature of this action. Enjoy yourself. Aimulti (talk) 05:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I am not "Keeponkeepingon" and I do not have any knowledge of "Keeponkeepingon." I have never written on Yahoo Answers. You are making unsubstantiated claims. I have defended your notability and tried to help improve the sourcing in your autobiography. Keepcalmandcarryon (talk) 14:02, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I can only comment on the section of the article regarding band management and picture discs, which I find informative, well-referenced, and certainly notable enough to qualify for inclusion in Misplaced Pages. I have no knowledge of Mark Hanau's life or career outside his involvement with Curved Air and Saturnalia but feel that to delete the entire article is extreme overkill and that a less-heated debate would enable the rest of the article to be brought up to the required standard. RGCorris (talk) 19:57, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

RGCorris, I agree with you that Mark Hanau's contribution to picture discs may be sufficiently notable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages with appropriate documentation. I will leave it to others to decide whether Hanau should have a biography article or should, rather, have his information merged into the other relevant articles. Keepcalmandcarryon (talk) 00:33, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Motives for attack on this article

discussion moved to Talk - Corvus cornix_talk 18:27, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Motives are irrelevant. The discussion here is whether or not this article meets Misplaced Pages guidelines and policies. Take extraneous discussion elswhere, it has no bearing on this discussion. I am moving the off-topic arguments to the Talk page. Corvus cornix_talk 18:27, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

NME AWARD

Not only did I provide a reference (the NME 1971 awards issue of NME), I also provided a scan of the actual invitation. NME only invited people to the awards who had won one. It was not like a Hollywood event, just a small reception room, some press and the presentation committee. Tony Blackburn (DJ) presented the awards. I have requested a back issue (the 1971 awards issue) from NME and also asked them to confirm Mark Hanau was the winner. How much more can you reference something? Misplaced Pages only requires a reference and I provided that and more. How many Misplaced Pages entries provide such solid references? Do I need Mark Hanau's DNA on the award and carbon dating? This is getting absurd!

Aimulti (talk) 04:54, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Absurd claim Sasha Hanau is not Mark Hanau's daughter

Aimulti, I have deleted the personal contact information you provided. Whether you are Sasha Hanau's father, as you claim to be, or not, Misplaced Pages prohibits disclosure of personal information. Keepcalmandcarryon (talk) 13:36, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Now I am confused. Not that it is directly relevant to the question of whether this article should be deleted or not, but near the top of this page, it is stated that the information on Sasha was mentioned with the consent of aimulti's daughter. But here, it is stated specifically that Sasha is not aimulti's daughter. 69.140.152.55 (talk) 21:44, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Sasha is Mark Hanau's daughter. Your link does not depute that. I will add copy of her birth cert., as soon as it arrives from England. Sasha was willing to have her phone number listed and to confirm this in person but Misplaced Pages does not allow that. Her birth cert. is the best I can do. I would hardly claim to be her father, on Misplaced Pages, if I was not.Aimulti (talk) 00:18, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

ALRA

Not only did I provide a reference from Kent Library naming the 'managers' of ALRA. They use the term for directors but also an image of the school prospectus showing Mark Hanau was Chairman of the Board (by law this information must be correct (Companies Act) and false information is a criminal act). In addition, every prospectus up to 1997 and all school stationary confirm this. In addition to that the company registary is public domain and can be easily checked. http://www.companies-house.gov.uk/toolsToHelp/findCompanyInfo.shtml

In addition every single issue of the weekly newspaper, Stage and Television Today (UK) has display advertisements for ALRA naming Mark Hanau as Chairman of the Board (from 1984 to 2001)

Aimulti (talk) 09:33, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Brecht

Provided three solid references (Newspaper and two University archives) showing that Mark Hanau's parents both worked with Brecht in East Berlin when Mark was a child. Removed line saying Mark met him (as this cannot be referenced) but who can doubt you meet someone who is working with your parents for over two years in a closed society like post war East Berlin? Aimulti (talk) 10:01, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

• This AfD nomination was incomplete. It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 13:19, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp (talk) 16:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp (talk) 16:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Discussion of keep/toss

• Comment I will not vote on this deletion since I have been involved in editing the article, but I should note that since Retrosimone made her AfD post, Aimulti responded by disclosing the personal information of a third party whom he claims is his daughter, as well as additional unverified information on other third parties, here and on his Talk page ostensibly for verification purposes. Keepcalmandcarryon (talk) 13:51, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
• Very strong delete - Per WP:AUTO, WP:COI, WP:Personal information, WP:MUSIC, WP:VER and WP:NOTMYSPACE. asenine 16:01, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
• Keep - while a bit high on puffery, certainly Mr. Hanau seems notable enough for an article. Has references to some reliable sources, some less reliable sources, and some facts need sources. --Rocksanddirt (talk) 17:41, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
• Strong Delete: Super high on puffery and most of the citations don't support Hanau's involvement. I started trying to clean up the article, removing errant citations that didn't support the article on Hanau, but quickly came to the conclusion that the article would be better deleted. If he's notable (probably is), start over and with proper citations that support relevant statements with reliable sources. Toddst1 (talk) 18:22, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
• Comment. I have to express concern regarding the discussion of this AFD which has turned more into the type of thing you'd expect to see on the article's talk page or at WP:RFC and some of the discussion is starting to ring WP:BLP alarm bells that have nothing to do with the article at hand. Also, COI states "preferably", it doesn't ban articles written by the subject. In fact I'm pretty sure there's a wikipolicy saying they're welcome as long as they have sources, etc etc. I can't cast an informed opinion as to the viability of this article as I'm not familiar enough with the subject matter. 23skidoo (talk) 19:58, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
• Comment: A quick, cursory search of the databases of the Montgomery County, Md. Public Library databases shows one article mentioning a different Mark Hanau (managing director of an investment firm). A search of news.google.com revealed no results. A search of scholar.google.com revealed 6210 results; within the first 10 of these results, there is a link to a patent for a method of manufacturing audio and video discs. Finally, if the subject of the article wants to be deleted, then I'd vote for a weak "delete" (but if User:Aimulti is, in fact, Mr. Hanau, then it would appear from the debate that the opposite is true). 69.140.152.55 (talk) 21:19, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

ALRA is in LONDON, England. (Not. Montgomery County, Maryland). Simply check the public record on-line data base. I provided a link as a reference. Direct link. http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/8d44684a52dcc89a24cdbbd0d9d3c8f2/compdetails. The information costs $1. I will buy it a post a link.Aimulti (talk) 22:42, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

• Delete. References available to online search do not at this time appear to support claims in article. If offline references can be verified there may be a possibility of retention after rewrite to match those sources. Some direct claims, however, such as the naming of Curved Air, are directly contradicted by available sources. --Dhartung | Talk 21:40, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I never claimed to have named Curved Air. Francis Monkman did. I simply claimed that I added Sonja (she confirms that on her page). Aimulti (talk) 22:47, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

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