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Re: Joelster

Thanks for the heads-up, Elonka. east.718 at 21:40, May 17, 2008

Misplaced Pages:Lectures

Todays lecture is starting! The topic is "How source experts judge source reliability" and the speaker is DGG. The meeting location for setup is #wikipedia-en-lectures on irc.freenode.net. The lecture will be given over skype. Contact Filll2 or kim_bruning to be invited to the lecture chat also.

--Kim Bruning (talk) 15:08, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Hello

Just me, the Canadian guy, dropping by, to say hi. GoodDay (talk) 23:49, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Problem

Hi Elonka, Sorry to bother you, but I keep running into a problem on the Days of Our Lives cast member page. Several IP's keep changing a character name in the Comings and Goings section. I believe this is one person using several accounts. According to Soapoperadigest.com, the new character's name is Dean Robbins. Someone keeps changing his name to Trent. I have reverted the unsourced edits three times, but it keeps occurring. How should I handle it? Rm994 (talk) 15:51, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Make that four times now. I have warned this user repeatedly about not sourcing, but they continue to change the page. Rm994 (talk) 19:33, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your help! Rm994 (talk) 23:50, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll keep an eye on it. To be honest though, the whole page at List of Days of our Lives cast members is badly-sourced, so it's difficult to take action against someone who may be making a good-faith change, which appears to be perfectly in line with everything else on the page. Your best bet is to ensure that you provide sources for anything you revert, and that will help it to "stick". :) --Elonka 23:54, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

THX

Thanks Elonka. I'll try to locate the sources or the Bluegrass Unlimited history and status, and include them in the footnote you're referenced. Much appreciated. --Samuel.harding (talk) 01:22, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Truce

I would like to propose a truce - i.e. I avoid intervening on your edits, you avoid intervening on my edits - I'm sorry, I just don't think you're being objective or civil with me in general - If you see problems with my edits, I'd prefer you report them directly to a noticeboard and not communicate with me - no offence intended, I just feel there are unworkable differences in viewpoint that require a buffer.

--Scott Free (talk) 03:03, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Erm, to my knowledge we have never been involved in a dispute. My first interaction with you was when I was responding, as an uninvolved administrator, to a thread at WP:AE. Asking me to stay away from you isn't really an option. Or is there some other place where we have engaged, with which I am unaware? --Elonka 03:08, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Basically, at a very informal level, I'm asking that you step away from this particular arbcom case because there have been too many decisions made by yourself that, IMO, denote a lack of neutrality and objectivity - since the case is a fairly minor one and your involvement has been fairly limited, and I don't think that there is a lack of other administrators who could deal with the situation - I'd appreciate it if you would kindly not intervene in this case in an administrative capacity - I could even recommend a few administrators who have shown a level of objectivity that I don't have a problem with.

--Scott Free (talk) 04:59, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Could you please give examples of the decisions which you have concerns about? --Elonka 05:13, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately I just don't have the time to elaborate, nor do I think that it would be useful or productive - I think I made my position clear enough in the initial discussion in March.

--Scott Free (talk) 12:55, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, as long as there is no disruption on the John Buscema article, it won't be an issue. :) Happy editing, Elonka 16:26, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

User:Hoipolloi906

Hi, I've just reviewed this guy's edits. His account has been around for two years and he suddenly starts editing now? In view of his post-block IP sockpuppetry, I've blocked him indefinitely. In this, I am persuaded by a similar spate of vandalism ealier and I think this might be the start of a wave. He can aslways ask to be unblocked, after all. --Rodhullandemu 06:21, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like you know more about the situation than I do. I have no objections. --Elonka 06:25, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you

You may not remember this, but when I first started editing in earnest on Misplaced Pages you were very kind and patient with me, and I believe you removed a block after I had gotten into an edit war on the Black Stone page. I wanted to thank you for putting up with me at that time. Peter Deer (talk) 14:55, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I don't think I removed the block, but I do remember chatting with you about the situation. I'm glad to see that things are calmer now, and that you're enjoying your work on Misplaced Pages.  :) Personally, I don't think the consensus will ever be to remove the image from Black Stone, because it's such a clear illustration (at least to non-Muslims) about an important related story from Muhammad's life. However, I do think that there's a stronger case for removing the image from the Kaaba article, since the image is not as essential there. The best bet will probably be showing that there are lots of other images that are more appropriate, than that one. Best wishes, --Elonka 15:39, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

SLR

Replied on my talk page. Thanks for dropping by. Sarvagnya 23:53, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Turkic people

Before you posted your message, I asked the user to go to the talk page of European ethnic groups to justify his blanking. I wonder if you could remove your comments on my talk page as I am quite aware of the three revert rule. I have no history of revert warring. Your unhelpful comment there suggests otherwise. Mathsci (talk) 05:14, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

It would be unfair of me to block one user in an edit war, and ignore the others. You are, however, welcome to blank anything from your talkpage that you wish. My comment was meant as a friendly caution, and not a formal warning. --Elonka 05:16, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I was the person who suggested that the blocked editor discuss this on the talk page in my second summary and in a message on his talk page, not you. He removed only the Turks from the start of the large Turkic section. There was something extremely fishy about deleting the first entry in the Turkic section, and the title of the section, both put in place by User:Dbachmann, who seemed to know exactly what he was doing. This was vandalism, since all the other entries that he left were indeed Turkic peoples. Here is the list just in case you've forgotten:

• Turkic peoples
  • Turks: (approx. 14 million in Turkish Thrace and Istanbul Province, another 5 million in diaspora)
  • Tatars (approx. 10 million)
  • Azerbaijanis: (approx. 6 million)
  • Kazakhs: (approx. 2 million)
  • Chuvash (approx. 2 million)
  • Bashkirs (approx. 1.6 million)
  • Karachays (approx. 300,000)
  • Crimeans (approx. 250,000)
  • Gagauz (approx. 100,000)
  • Nogais (approx. 90,000)

Only the first two lines were removed, despite the fact the 10 ethnic groups after Turks are classified as Turkic. Why did he leave all these other Turkic peoples, since his "arguments" applied equally to them. I would guess, in view of his own specially created anti-Turkey userbox, that he has his own private agenda. Mathsci (talk) 06:34, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Trust me, I block vandals all the time. There's a clear difference between content disputes, and vandalism. See WP:VAND#NOT. I do appreciate that you found a source though. However, do you think you could either find another source, or at least tweak the line, so that it actually matches what is in the source?  :) Thanks, Elonka 06:58, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Deleting the first two of the twelve lines of Turkic groups is vandalism, since ten Turkic groups were left in the wrong section. Now that you have made an edit to the mainspace article, you can no longer use your adminstrative tools on it: you are an editor like the rest of us. Please make any desired editorial corrections as you see fit, including adding links to subsections of the CIA factbook if that's what you want. Mathsci (talk) 07:25, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

You may also wish to read WP:UNINVOLVED.--Elonka 07:32, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Please discuss this issue with User:Dbachmann on the talk page of European ethnic groups. I don't see any point in disussing this with you any further since all you do is post WP policy pages. Please remove me from your watch list, Elonka. Mathsci (talk) 22:04, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Nungesser and Coli

Hi Elonka. I have uploaded several free copyright photos of the two pilots, their plane (in concrete), the monument and museum at the top of Cap Fagnet, Étretat. All are named Image:Nungesser and Coli_0 (then 05 to 16).jpg Feel free to use/edit as required. I haven't made it to Paris for the street sign, or to the airport either. Dickie (talk) 16:32, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Re: Rhetoric

Hi Elonka. Sorry, I received your message a little late (apparently the server is experiencing some lag). However, I don't really plan on continuing the discussion, as my objections are apparently too broad to make any meaningful contribution there, and any further suggestions would be that much more snow. But thanks for the reminder. ;) —Aryaman (talk) 15:49, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

User:Koalorka

I have examined all this editor's non-weapon related edits since he arrived on WP prior to May 27th. Most of the 150 edits, which I have annotated with diffs in a file, have the single purpose of removing any mention that Turkey is a country partially in Europe from articles or templates. At no stage are any sources presented for this point of view. When Turkish editors have objected they have been subjected to charges that the Turkish are racially inferior, that any interbreeding between whites and Turks resulted from rape and that, rather than attempt to be included in Europe, they should rather seek to join the Arab League. He will not accept that Turkish Thrace lies in Europe, a point which came up in talk page discussions with a British-Turkish editor. This debate resulted in him being reported on WP:AN/I in mid-April and being cautioned about his behaviour. Apparently he took no notice of this caution and continued with his provocative taunting even while discussions were taking place on WP:AN/I. He also engaged in revert wars with user Izmir, in which he twice made five reverts in the course of 24 hours. This abuse of the 3RR rule went unnoticed and neither editor received a block. At the end of January 2008 he encountered a Jewish editor on the talk pages of Stormfront, whom he started insulting with antisemitic remarks. He was reported on WP:AN/I and was blocked for a day for antisemitic abuse. He showed no contrition following this process. (Although it is irrelevant for this summary, his racist agenda here seems to be conducted off-wiki in far-right forums, some involving race-hate discussions, under the same pseudonym.) I have no comments to make on his other edits to weapons-related articles, which form the bulk of his edits. The Turkey related edits form periodic binges which have been consuming more of his time in the last two months than before, Although he seems willing to explain his arguments to one or two people, he has stayed away from making edits to widely viewed articles like Europe which he modified only once and was immediately reverted. He has not dared try again, which indicates that he is not ready to play his games where too many eyes are on an article. This systematic POV pushing, which several editors have described as apparent vandalism, does not seem to be acceptable on WP. It would probably be appropriate to impose a subject ban on all edits involving Turkey.

Were you in any way aware of this problem and that only six weeks ago he was reported for this kind of behaviour? If I include the latest attempts to remove Turkey, there are abou 200 edits which I am quite prepared to take to WP:AN/I in order for a topic ban to be imposed on him. Every time he makes an edit on this subject, he causes a large amount of disruption. This highly singular behaviour is obviously unacceptable on WP. It is a great pity that you did not realise this yourself, because you will see that his circular argumentation without sources is the common feature of all these edits and he has not reformed despite the warnings in January and April, something the April administrators seemed quite aware of. Anyway you know now and you can therefore exercise caution when dealing with somebody described on WP:AN/I as a POV pusher. You will also understand that your idea of private mentoring when I asked about his forum pseudonym was not really appropriate: it was quite misplaced in his case. The 200 diffs give a very clear picture of an obsessive POV pusher. Mathsci (talk) 05:51, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Please provide diffs for your above statements, and I'll take a look. --Elonka 05:57, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

The report on non-weapons-related edits prior to May 27 is here User:Mathsci/subpage#Subpage_of_User:Mathsci. An additional report on the edits of May 27-28, which followed exactly the same pattern, will be added later. Mathsci (talk) 13:09, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. My recommendation, since it's a complex case, is that you look into filing a User conduct RfC to get more opinions. Though be careful about providing too many diffs, as they can bring on what's called a "tl;dr" syndrome (Too Long, Didn't Read). Best is to write up a well-diffed summary, maybe around 500 words, with the most egregious examples. Put the diffs in the context of your description. For example, when you say "antisemitic remarks", put the diffs right there after the term, which makes it easier for other people to review. Give preference to issues over the last few months. In the case of any admin board threads, try to provide a link to the archive. Also, it's very important that you keep your own language very civil and neutral. As soon as you resort to any incivility or attacks yourself, it weakens your argument. You may also wish to contact El C, who is an admin with a great deal of experience with complex cases and appears to have prior experience with this editor, in an administrative role. Dbachmman will be of limited help since he's an "involved" editor and cannot use tools (and is under fire for other reasons). But El C may be your best bet. --Elonka 14:03, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I have added a summary of his latest edits. I believe he should receive a community ban on Turkey-related articles as a single-purpose POV pusher. The summary will take some time to compile. I know about User:Dbachmann because I was one of those defending him (against User:Rokus01 and others) in the recent arbitration case. The creation of this article from scratch from the horrific previous article was one of his many WP achievements. On the subpage I wrote the summaries very quickly and not always with great accuracy (there were more than 160 diffs to format and describe) and I understand that they must be presented in a neutral way. I am not aware that I have been uncivil or attacked this user. He does happen to participate in some far-right anti-immigrant forums, which I have find repugnant (to quote Jimbo, Urggh ...). However, that is not a personal attack nor is it uncivil. He also seems to have some interest in defending the Stormfront article. He has been anti-semitic, anti-islamic and anti-Turkish on wiki. That is a matter of record and he was cautioned in January and April for it. I would prefer to take this directly to WP:AN/I as I have had previous experience with similar pathological behaviour (User:Fourdee, User:MoritzB) and I am aware of how these cases are drafted. The long comprehensive set of diffs was prepared so that you could see directly that there was a deeper problem here. His behaviour on the page gave some indication of that; everybody else was quite reasonable, I didn't even notice the swearwords. Mathsci (talk) 15:38, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Sure, if you want to take it to ANI, that might be a good course at this point. You may also wish to look through some of the existing ArbCom decisions (such as Misplaced Pages:Editing restrictions and Misplaced Pages:General sanctions) and see if there's already an active decision involving Turkey-related articles (my guess is yes). If so, we could just put him directly on restrictions now, without requiring a potentially chaotic ANI thread. Digwuren is an option, since that covers "Eastern Europe" articles, but there may be something more applicable, I haven't checked. --Elonka 16:39, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. But I haven't the slightest idea what you think you're talking about. Good night. Mathsci (talk) 23:00, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm thinking about adding anyone who is repeatedly disruptive in the topic area (Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Iran, and any related ethnic/historical issues) to a list such as this one: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2#Amended Remedies and Enforcement. Once on that list, an editor is on a shorter leash, and when an editor is on an ArbCom restriction list such as that, it means that pretty much any uninvolved admin can independently place such an editor on a topic ban or other restriction, without requiring the bureaucracy of an ANI thread or RfC. --Elonka 07:03, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

For the reply here re off-wiki activities. It's a subject I've seen brought up a few times. Guess I can still start my new Dravidian supremacy blog under this nick. 3rdAlcove (talk) 07:32, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Re: Zonal spherical function

Thanks for the pointers! I'll keep them in mind and try to be more careful in the future. --/Mendaliv//_Δ's/ 03:42, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for keeping a positive attitude, it's appreciated. And also, good work on the recent patrolling, and congrats on the graduation!  :) --Elonka 03:59, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Editing own biography or that of family members

Dear Elonka, I noticed that you yourself at one stage wrote most of your WP:BLP on the wikipedia, which surprised me. Indeed what you added read like a CV. I also note that you have added the bios of various family members. Yesterday, the grandson of Edgar Wallace (creator of King Kong), who has been following with glee your recent antics on WP, asked me whether it might be appropriate for him to clarify various details concerning his grandfather's death. My first reaction was that there might be some WP:COI. However, now that I have seen your fearless editing of your own biography - with no bushel in sight to hide any light - I am not sure that that is the case. He is quite a modest person, but nevertheless you might still be a person who can offer him advice. Many thanks in advance,--Mathsci (talk) 10:32, 1 June 2008 (UTC)