Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 09:40, 15 June 2008

Conversion accuracy

Discussion moved to: Template_talk:Convert

Please respond to this:

Wikipedia_talk:Templates_for_deletion#Automotive_templates:_Template:Auto_hp_and_others.

cus and sqs

Here's what I think is the full list of the cus and sqs in the convert subspace (excluding those fo the form "encu*" which I think are all cubic feet).

• /cu*
• /sq*
• //sq*

I've picked through some of them and it seems that the only real trouble is cum and //sqkm (which you're on to) but this might need further investigation. JIMp _talk·cont 03:37, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I will look into them. I have the following points:

• Can you update the user guide.
• Some users have monobooks that add sqkm etc. Can you advise them of the change
• Will we add a new function so that the code determines the format. We have hard coded the choice for sqmi and sqkm but we could leave it up to the user. :Thus readers will see 'sq mi' because the code is sqmi not mi2. Readers will see 'km²' because the code is km2 not sqkm.

Regards Lightmouse (talk) 04:56, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

• The guide's updated ... unless something's slipped through.
• How do we find those with sqkm in their monobooks?
• Do you mean make it such that ft3 etc. gives "ft³" instead of the "cu ft" it now gives? Will we need that or will MOSNUM be revised to settle on one ... or the other?

also

• There may be some combos like sqft sqm which need a look into.
• I've sneakly gone and swapped all the disp=slash that I could find to disp=s. Could your bot go a root out any left over? And what are your thoughts on keeping both disp=/ and disp=s. It would make things easier if there were only one option. I'm talking several dozen redirects.

JIMp _talk·cont 08:42, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Monobooks: To find sqkm in monobooks, just use Misplaced Pages's own advanced search function and search for sqkm.
sqft: I have not got all the answers but I would like it to be more wysiwyg. Yes, I am suggesting that ft3 code is reserved for "ft³" and sqkm code is reserved for "sq km". I am not suggesting that the code works - we could continue with the present practice and implement the ban on behalf of mosnum. It is just that I think it is better to match the input formats to the output format. Perhaps MJCDetroit would have an opinion.
combos: They will have to be sqft m2 if we follow the concept.
disp=/ would be more wysiwyg but we do not have to go mad if we don't want to
The bot can do all the things you are suggesting. I will have a go when I can. Lightmouse (talk) 17:44, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I'll be recycling those "cu" and "sq" subtemplates but first a note on them to tell of their depreciation. JIMp _talk·cont 02:41, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I've put notes on many of the subtemplates to be recycled. I've put a few up for deletion. One significant hold-out is sqmi sqkm with just over a hundred transclusions. Once Lightbot has tackled them I'll recycle that one too. JIMp _talk·cont 06:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

OK. Lightbot has not tackled any of the double unit templates like 'sqmi sqkm' yet. It will do it soon and I will let you know. Lightmouse (talk) 07:14, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I think I've tackled most of them but sqmi sqkm was took big a job for a mortal. There's I've already put {{db-author}}s on the others besides sqmi sqkm ... unless there are ones I've overlooked. JIMp _talk·cont 07:22, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Lightbot has done some more. We are making progress. Take another look and let me know what you think. Lightmouse (talk) 18:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Lightbot

It broke an image link by fixing an abbreviation. Hopefully you can fix this. Thanks. -CWY2190(talk • contributions) 18:53, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Ooh. So it did. I have updated the code and tested it on that page. It works correctly now. Thanks for letting me know. I appreciate it. Lightmouse (talk) 19:36, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Possible Lightbot improvement

In this edit Lightbot unlinked a date due to MOS:UNLINKYEARS. Would it be possible for the bot to recognize this linking arrangement and properly link it? i.e. ] ], ] → ], ] ~ Eóin (talk) 19:00, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately it is not something for Lightbot. There may be other bots more suitable. I suggest that you ask the people at Misplaced Pages:Bot requests. Best wishes. Lightmouse (talk) 19:29, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

LightBot JS

Do you mind if I use the JS for manual clean up? (If this can be done, JS isn't my language) BJ 20:32, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Be my guest but Caveat emptor (if anything is wrong with it, don't blame me). I will try to help you if I can. Lightmouse (talk) 20:37, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

So I guess it doesn't work in Safari. :D BJ 20:44, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I know nothing about Safari. But I do know that there are different versions. For example, I have to have one version for AWB and another version for monobook script. Try User:Lightmouse/monobook.js/script.js. You can even create your own monobook with that code. Lightmouse (talk) 20:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Both are messed up in Safari (Javascript is fun, eh?). Is the Lightmouse/ script targeting Firefox? (AWB is IE, so I'd assume that is what that script targets) BJ 21:10, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

AWB is IE and the script has to conform to that. The monobook script works in Firefox. The differences are quite small, for example if you want to search for a space character in AWB, you just use a space character but in Firefox you have to use /s. I see from your contributions that some of it works. I suggest that you reduce it down to something that works, then just add code in small increments until it breaks. Lightmouse (talk) 21:18, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd rather just use Firefox (JS scares me), only reason I'm using Safari is I'm in the middle of a game of Civ 4 on my PC. :D BJ 21:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I find javascript scary too. But I have done what you are doing - copy code from others and tweak it. Somebody must know if monobooks work in Safari. Lightmouse (talk) 21:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

your bot

Could you provide links to your bot task requests?--Rockfang (talk) 23:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Bots/Requests_for_approval/Lightbot Lightmouse (talk) 23:26, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the link.--Rockfang (talk) 23:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Sqfoot -> sqft_sqft-2008-06-13T05:58:00.000Z">

Lightmouse, you recently changed University of Tennessee Forensic Anthropology Facility and modified {{convert|256|sqfoot|m2|lk=on}} to {{convert|256|sqft|m2}}, thus changing the grammar by changing the output from "foot" to "feet". I'd suggest you remove this automatic conversion from your script. Also, I must again file my complaint regarding the automatic removal of "lk=on" from template instances...you may feel these terms are known well enough to not need linking, I may feel similar, but I still look at these terms as being something non-native-English, or even non-native-Americans, may have no standard of reference for (or no knowledge of their meaning). — Huntster (t • @ • c) 05:58, 13 June 2008 (UTC)_sqft"> _sqft">

Actually, the change from sqfoot to sqft was not done automatically, it was done by hand. I thought that it made no visible difference. I now see that this is wrong. I will change them all back.

I agree with you that non-metric people may not have a 'standard of reference' or a 'knowledge of meaning'. That is why a conversion is vital for non-metric units. If you look at wp:overlink, you will see a statement with a footnote:

• In general, do not create links to ... Plain English words, including common units of measurement
• Examples of common measurements include:
  • units of time (millisecond, second, minute, hour, day, week, month, year)
  • metric units of mass (milligram, gram, kilogram), length (millimetre, centimetre, metre, kilometre), area (mm², etc.) and volume (millilitre, litre, mm³, etc.)
  • some imperial and US units such as inch, foot, yard, mile, etc.
  • combinations of the above (e.g. m/s, ft/s).

You will see that common units of measurement rank high on the list of Most linked-to pages. I think that suggests that they are overlinked. Common metric units like metre are more widely known than common non-metric units like foot. Thus I would certainly say that metric units have less in need of linking than non-metric units. On balance, I think units like foot and mile are not in need of linking in the English Misplaced Pages when a conversion to a metric unit is provided. If you think that non-metric units should always be linked, even when converted, then perhaps Misplaced Pages policy should be changed. I would have said that the place to discuss such policy is the talk page of wp:mosnum but that page has been taken over by people involved in a binary prefix war.

Perhaps a better place is the village pump policy page. Lightmouse (talk) 06:41, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Lightmouse (talk) 06:41, 13 June 2008 (UTC)_sqft"> _sqft">

Oh, no need to take it that far. I just give you a hard time, occasionally ;D Seriously, you do fine work, Lightmouse...even if a little overenthusiastic at times hehe. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 09:50, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

It is always worth raising these issues. I accept that I may be one of Wikipedias enthusiasts or a pedants...

After the discussion has gone back and forth a bit, it might become clear that there are nuances that will suit all. For example, I did consider changing 'lk=on' to 'lk=out' or 'lk=in'. This would mean that only the non-metric unit would be linked. I could still do that if it is likely to increase acceptance of delinking of common metric units. What do you think? Lightmouse (talk) 10:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Interesting idea which may be a good middle ground. However, I think the number of U.S. residents who haven't a clue what Metric is, much less how to deal with it, is seriously underestimated...yes, I'm playing both sides of the issue here. I know I could ask people I live around what a meter is, and for many of them, their expressions would go blank ("Meter? Isn't that what you measure gas (or electricity) with...?" aka, a gas meter/electric meter). I suppose my biggest issue here is that while we use conversions to make it easier for a worldwide audience to relate, we are still an encyclopedia, and it seems remiss to pass up an opportunity to educate when it is as easy as providing a link (people will click out from an article on a site like this just to see where it goes). — Huntster (t • @ • c) 10:18, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Let us think about it in steps.

• Where a non-metric unit and a metric units are associated (i.e. showing a conversion from one to the other), you do not need to know what the other unit is. Thus if you say 1000 blobs (3,000 gorks), the blob user and the gork user can understand the text even if they do not know what the other term is. Incidentally, Americans see metric terminology all the time on packages in the supermarket (mandated in the US by the FPL Act) yet many Americans will say that metric is not used in America - suggesting that what people say and what people see are different.
• I think it is reasonable to expect a reasonable reader to know that converted terms are parallel. Thus the gork user may not have seen a blob before but it is clearly similar when shown as 1000 blobs (3,000 gorks). Thus when you ask people around you, do not ask them to define 'meter', show them a card that says "the cliff is 100 meters (300 ft) high" and ask them if the cliff is higher than their house.

The issue of encouraging people to go to other pages is another matter. Lightmouse (talk) 10:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

That war had been taking up half the page for years. For the last two or three months the war spilt into new territory and was taking up almost all the page. I think things have calmed down a little at MOSNUM in the past week or so. A different topic might even stand a decent chance of being noticed again.

I was just at Temp talk:Convert saying, no don't put sing=on in there instead since this does something different but if it's a question of grammar as Huntster's indicating above then this is what you want though we could perhaps get rid of the sing=ons altogether replacing them with adj=ons.

I agree that common units such as the foot & metre need not be linked. I've grown up in a metricated country but the foot is no less familiar a thing than a squirrel. I wouldn't expect the word squirrel to be linked in an article with little relation to the animal.

JIMp _talk·cont 07:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)_sqft"> _sqft">

Lightbot - removal of blank lines

I have taken the liberty of moving this issue to AWB. You would be surprised what you learn from talking to them and how open they are to debate. See Wikipedia_talk:AutoWikiBrowser#Removal_of_blank_lines. Regards Lightmouse (talk) 15:08, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks - you are obviously more aware of who-does-what in the community than me. Let's see what it leads to. – IbLeo (talk) 16:23, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

William Trench, 1st Earl of Clancarty

Why was the wiki mark-up removed from the death date? Daytrivia (talk) 13:27, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind I see and will repair. Daytrivia (talk) 13:30, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I was just writing the reply. These things are hard for humans to spot but easy for bots. Thanks to the wikiprocess with bots and humans, the article will get better and better. Lightmouse (talk) 13:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Baseball articles

instead of removing all of the links to the years in the baseball articles can you use the Template:Baseball Year--Yankees10 14:09, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I am not sure that the code for Lightbot could do that easily. I can imagine quite a few false positives if it turned each year into a baseball year (for example it might break autoformatting). I think there are bots and editors that are better qualified for that task. Have you considered wp:botreq? Lightmouse (talk) 14:17, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

References and the word "unit"

Hi,

I stopped your bot due to this edit to the Paramedics in the US article. My concern is two fold. First off, why is it wikifing the reference section? There really is no reason for things like dates to be wikified there. Second, it is doing other edits such as ] -> ]s. Shouldn't the entire word be inside the brackets, especially when divided up like that?

JPINFV (talk) 22:41, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Every edit that the bot made to that article was correct in the context which they were made. To address the things you mentioned above, yes, full dates should always be wikified so that user preferences can take effect. Also, it changed ] to ]s, which is also the correct proscribed form. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 03:16, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Hunster. I appreciate you bringing this here and do not mind you stopping the bot. To JPINFV, please take a look at the response from Hunster and the subsequent edit and see if you think the article is better now. Thanks Lightmouse (talk) 09:51, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Just to clarify, I didn't stop the bot. I just reverted JPINFV's revert since the bot did nothing wrong. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 16:14, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I know you didn't. My response was unclear about that, sorry. The thanks for stopping the bot were directed at JPINV. I appreciate you helping out because it is always useful to have a third party view in such cases. Lightmouse (talk) 17:27, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

10cc

I've reverted all the bot changes to articles about the band 10cc. The bot was changing the standard representation of the band's name and, worse, changing the name of album cover images, thereby removing them. Grimhim (talk) 01:08, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

You are right, the band name should not have been changed and the image filenames should have been left as they were. I will investigate to see if I can tighten up the code. Thanks for identifying and fixing those things. And thanks for going back and fixing the date links. Lightmouse (talk) 09:55, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

List of decades

Please don't unlink the decade list from the List of decades article. It's really a navigation template, but too large for inclusion in articles. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 18:13, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

You are right. It should not have done that. I will fix that. Thanks for letting me know. Lightmouse (talk) 18:35, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Date links

Hi, I thought that all dates in an article (e.g. "1805", "2008", etc.) had to be linked. Now the Lightbot comes along and is delinking all the dates I inserted into Nachman of Breslov, Nathan of Breslov and others. Should I be concerned? Are any dates supposed to be linked? Thank you, Yoninah (talk) 18:59, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

People often think that all date fragments should be linked but it is not true. As with plain english words, links are only needed if they help. You can see policy at Misplaced Pages:Mosnum#Autoformatting_and_linking and wp:overlink. Best wishes. Lightmouse (talk) 19:42, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

4AD record label

Your bot borked the wikilink to 4AD on the page for The Wolfgang Press. I fixed it, but you need to be aware that the page 4AD is for a record label and not the year. -- Foetusized (talk) 01:33, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Lightbot

Why is this bot de-wikifying articles like Professional Wrestling in Australia? I think that's not good at all. Linking dates is important to WP if I may say so. !! Justa Punk !! 04:38, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Edmonton municipal election, 1963

Per my earlier request here, please stop inserting Template:Convert in this article, whether manually or by bot. I hope that I will not have to ask you for a third time. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 06:10, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your feedback. There must be a way to fix this. I have asked at Village_pump_(policy)#Unflagged_quotes if there might be a solution to this problem. Regards Lightmouse (talk) 09:40, 15 June 2008 (UTC)