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Former article talkpages (archived) Kosova Republic of Kosovo Kosovo (geopolitical region)

This page has archives. Sections older than 14 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III.

• • It seems the main entry has been defaced. It must be fixed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.200.200 (talk) 15:09, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Revised Economic Data

According to a report by the UN Secretary General (S-2008-458), the IMF has informed the Secretary General and the Government of Kosovo that it has revised upwards the economic data. It says, and I quote:

An International Monetary Fund (IMF) mission visited Kosovo in April to assess the macroeconomic framework and fiscal policies. The IMF recently revised upwards the Kosovo gross domestic product (GDP) figures, which are now estimated at €3,343 million (€1,573 per capita) in 2007, and forecast a real GDP growth of about 5 per cent per annum over a five-year period.

I would like to update the infobox to reflect this new information as the current infobox table is outdated. You can find the report here --alchaemia (talk) 22:49, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

 Done. Interesting that the CIA Factbook page says it was updated in August, but still shows the old figures. If anyone feels that the CIA source is better, please feel free to request this be changed back. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 09:02, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for doing that. However, I see that you left the $ sign when the amount of 3,343 million refers to Euros, which comes out to about $4,743 million using todays exchange rate, or $2,231 GDP per capita. I think CIA is quoting older IMF or World Bank sources so there's a discrepancy there. Thanks again. --alchaemia (talk) 14:38, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Good catch, sorry about that. Fixing now. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 19:59, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

{{editprotected}} Thanks again. Fortunately :), I have more information that needs to be updated. I suggest we ditch the part about PPP (Purchasing Power Parity) as it is seriously outdated and in contradiction with the new information from IMF. Per the new IMF information, GDP per capita (in terms of USD) is $2,231, thus GDP PPP cannot logically be $1,800. Secondly, I think we should include a section in the infobox that talks about GDP growth year-to-year in percentages, as well as projected growth. I offer this (p. 5) IMF technical document as support for this request. Significantly, IMF says that GDP growth in 2007 was 4.4%, while projecting that the GDP will grow by 6.7 this year, that is, 2008. I would be grateful if you would consider my request.

Nothing? --alchaemia (talk) 18:47, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Seriously, it's been at least a week since I've put in this legitimate and non-controversial request and no one has even bothered to do anything about it. Why is an article locked if even legitimate requests are not handled properly? --alchaemia (talk) 04:25, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

No opinion on the request, but I note that the page is now only semi-protected. Accordingly, I'm clearing the editprotected template. UltraExactZZ ~ Evidence 13:41, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

UN 2/3 majority

Pardon my ignorance. From my brief glance through a few papers it looks like the UN General Assembly could grant Kosovo membership if 2/3 of the nations approve. Why then is this not stated anywhere in the sections relating to independence. My only explanation is that the 2/3 general assembly vote can be overturned by the UNSC which does not sound too reasonable to me. Can anyone offer insight on this in the event that I am wrong in my reasoning. If I am right, then why do we not add this info to the independence section. Thanks

From the wiki article on the general assembly: Voting in the General Assembly on important questions – recommendations on peace and security; election of members to organs; admission, suspension, and expulsion of members; budgetary matters – is by a two-thirds majority of those present and voting. Other questions are decided by majority vote XJeanLuc (talk) 03:13, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Because a couple of editors here have a strong bias and want to make the situation look as pessimistic for Kosovo as possible. Good find! --alchaemia (talk) 03:29, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Wait a couple of days, there seems to be a debate at the UN General Assembly soon. If there is any development there, the article should be updated. --Tone 10:03, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I doubt that its a matter of pessimism for not including this data. I still don't know if this is or is not how the general assembly vote works. Like Tone suggested I'll wait for the articles that come out after the 8 October session of the UN when they discuss the legality of the situation. XJeanLuc (talk) 11:01, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Map for the 2nd infobox

I propose this map for the second infobox, there is no point using the current one as the infobox map is supposed to be a locator map which is not what the current one is -- CD 13:42, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Disintegration of Yugoslavia and Kosovo War

{{editprotected}} The second paragraph in this section begins:

Only after the Bosnian War, drawing considerable international attention, was ended with the Dayton Agreement in 1995, but the situation in Kosovo remained largely unaddressed by the international community, the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), an ethnic Albanian guerrilla group, by 1996 had started offering armed resistance to Serbian and Yugoslav security forces, resulting in early stages of the Kosovo War.

This sentence makes no sense as written and is very confusing in trying to determine what is trying to be said here. Might I suggest it be replaced with this sentence:

The situation in Kosovo drew little international attention during the Bosnian War. However, after the Dayton Agreement in 1995 settled the Bosnian conflict, the international community could once against turn its attentions on Kosovo. During this attention hiatus and by 1996, the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), an ethnic Albanian guerrilla group, had began offering armed resistance to Serbian and Yugoslav security forces, resulting in early stages of the Kosovo War.

The references remain the same, just reworded to a better understanding and clarification.--«JavierMC»|Talk 03:31, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

or

The situation in Kosovo drew little international attention during the Bosnian War. When the Dayton Agreement in 1995 settled the Bosnian conflict, but failed to make any mention of Kosovo, those Kosovars advocating peaceful resistance were discredited in the eyes of more hardline nationalists. By 1996, the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), an ethnic Albanian guerrilla group, had began offering armed resistance to Serbian and Yugoslav security forces, resulting in early stages of the Kosovo War.

?

At any rate I'm opposed to the term 'attention hiatus'. Not very encyclopaedic. Davu.leon (talk) 12:05, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Personally I don't care how it is reworded, it just needs to be made clearer. As to "attention hiatus" not being very encyclopedic, is this just part of the meaningless objections of material added to this article that has plagued it for months? Read the definition of hiatus (an interruption in time or continuity) before objecting on a non-encyclopedic basis. One other point, was the Dayton Agreement expected to address Kosovo considering Kosovo was perceived as rather peaceful at the time? Anyway, do what you like or do nothing at all. The paragraph is just very confusing when read as it stands now.--JavierMC 16:28, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

I can rephrase. Attention Hiatus is grammatically incorrect. 'During this hiatus in attention' might be more acceptable, but frankly it's an awkward word to try to use in this context. Secondly, the Dayton conference was expected to deal with Kosovo, though largely only by Kosovo Albanians themselves - who had been led to this belief by Ibrahim Rugova, the leader of the LDK, (which played a major role in keeping Kosovo peaceful at the time). He had allowed the public to believe that they would be rewarded for their non-violence with international recognition of their declaration of independence. When this did not happen, it gave the KLA a major boost in credibility while simultaneously damaging his own. Davu.leon (talk) 16:15, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

No opinion on the request, but the page has been reduced to semi-protection. Clearing the editprotected template. UltraExactZZ ~ Evidence 13:40, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Kosovo vs. South Ossetia and Abkhazia

I believe the Kosovo page's infox should be organized similar to that of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. They are all self-declared and partially recognized independent republics, and I see no difference in the status of the republics in question. - Realismadder (talk) 20:10, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

I've also noticed some inconsistency between this page and the pages of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. It should be one way or the other. Personally, I would prefer one infobox with all the state symbols, rather than two or three different infoboxes that look both ugly and confusing. BanRay 00:13, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Just do it. --80.152.236.156 (talk) 11:30, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Done. --Kudzu1 (talk) 17:29, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, but why is it undone again? --84.56.234.35 (talk) 21:23, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Dear Kudzu, could you do it again, please? --80.152.236.156 (talk) 06:34, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Or someone else? TIA! --84.56.239.116 (talk) 18:06, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Hello? Anybody out there?--84.56.251.21 (talk) 08:58, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Administrative regions

According to Regulation No. 1999/14 On the Appointment of Regional and Municipal Administrators (21 October 1999) UNMIK divided Kosovo on 5 regions ( The Special Representative of the Secretary-General shall appoint, and may transfer or replace, a Regional Administrator for each of the five regions of Kosovo (Pristina, Pec, Mitrovica, Prizren and Gnjilane) to act on his behalf.), not for 7. So, you should change unsourced informotion about 7 regions in "Administrative regions" section. Aotearoa (talk) 07:38, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Unprotection

I reduced the protection level to "permanent semiprotection". Keep in mind that this is under article probation. This is a reason not to protect the article: Editors may be blocked at the first sign of edit-warring against consensus. --dab (𒁳) 12:51, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Source

This could be another neutral Western source for the history section.

http://books.google.com/books?id=jLfX1q3kJzgC&pg=RA1-PA366&lpg=RA1-PA366&dq=census+Macedonia+1921+population&source=web&ots=tdUUE3rgbK&sig=8Q0lnAaOp3pOLe963RBDePjgPTA&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PRA1-PA364,M1

"Ethnic Groups and Population Changes in Twentieth-century Central-Eastern Europe

By Jan Piotr Eberhardt "  —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZvonimirIvanovic (talk • contribs) 01:29, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

ICJ case

Why not include it into the article? --ZvonimirIvanovic (talk) 20:29, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Good idea. Let's do that. --GOD OF JUSTICE 16:43, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

The ICJ thing certainly does not belong in the introduction of the article; it simply isn't that important. At best, it belongs in the "International reaction..." subheading. --alchaemia (talk) 08:02, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

It is very important and must be included in the intro. --Litany (talk) 22:33, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

No, it mustn't. Beam 03:33, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

50 countries

50 countries recognized Kosovo —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.196.95.210 (talk) 21:39, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

51, to be more precisely or do you consider Taiwan not a country? --80.152.236.156 (talk) 08:15, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Taiwan is not an internationally recognized country, and not a member of UN. — Emil J. 10:03, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Nevertheless it is a country. --80.152.236.156 (talk) 11:27, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

It simply a government that claims to represent China.--Certh (talk) 12:07, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Recognition by Montenegro and Macedonia has demoralized Serbia or in other words, to Serbia it is like throwing the A Bomb. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.157.205.64 (talk) 12:28, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Central Serbia versus Serbia

Regarding this edit summary, I must remind the user in question that "Central Serbia" was the consensus for months until this edit just a few hours ago. Perhaps the suggestion to "pay attention to the comment in code", which in any case pertains to the names of cities, not neighbouring countries, should be redirected accordingly. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· 06:51, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I placed that comment there months ago, and the comment reads: <!-- Note: Below, the exact sentence with alternative city names was first discussed on the talk page, proposed, then inserted here as consensus. Please do not alter it without discussing it first on the talk page. Thank you. -->. I have no trouble comprehending "the exact sentence" part. Do you? Let's discuss it then, and offer consensus-grade persuasion, not forcibly revert away from the pristine :) form that was agreed upon once by consensus. --Mareklug 03:44, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

So why did the user behind this edit not discuss it first on the talk page? As for the essence of the dispute, how can you seriously contend that the statement "Kosovo borders Serbia" represents anything even remotely approaching WP:NPOV? Serbia and most other countries in the world consider Kosovo to be part of Serbia. Why should Misplaced Pages endorse your minority POV? The only neutral geographical statement possible in this case is "Kosovo borders Central Serbia", which is agnostic on the question of whether it belongs to Serbia or not. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· 04:15, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I wish to make a point of order, esp. to the admins overseeing this article. I asked ΚΕΚΡΩΨ to discuss, on two separate edit summary entries in 2 days, and yet he pretends to discuss, while continuing to, for lack of better word, edit war. That is, he forcibly returns the article to His Point of View, three times now, I beliewe. I will not risk another block of my editing by pursing this abuse, as I already got blocked for my good-faith efforts (my one an only block) when attempting to inject neutral content for Pristina spellings (that is, I tried to include all of them, without prejudice). I refuse to be used by someone who forces the issue. EOT for me. --Mareklug 04:24, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I, unlike you, am actually discussing and defending my edits with arguments. You still haven't explained why Misplaced Pages should endorse the minority POV that "Kosovo borders Serbia". I don't understand what the problem with "Central Serbia" is anyway. Even those who recognize Kosovo as a separate country agree that it borders the region of Central Serbia geographically. As for your charge that I am "injecting forcibly peculiar inexactnesses that represent a cherished POV", isn't that exactly what you're doing? "Serbia" is inexact and POV; "Central Serbia" is quite the opposite. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· 04:36, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, so let us hope that sooner or later "Central Serbia" will be the one and only Serbia, right? After the coming breakaway of Voivodina there will be no more reason to talk about "Central Serbia" and to dream of a greater Serbia. --84.56.251.21 (talk) 08:54, 12 October 2008 (UTC) By the way, after the factual breakaway of Kosova, shouldn't we better talk of "South Serbia" and "North Serbia" (Voivodina) instead of "Central Serbia"?

People like you probably want to see Serbia wiped off the map altogether, right? ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· 10:59, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

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