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No Polish passport

German wikipedia discussion:

Lukas Podolski hat nur die Deutsche Staatsangehörigkeit, einen polnischen Pass hat er nicht. Damit dürfte die Diskussion um eine doppelte Staatsbürgerschaft beendet sein. Andreas Stops, ans sport GmbH (Management Lukas Podolski)

abgesehen davon, dass es mir egal ist zwei punkte zum vorstehenden (nicht signiertem) beitrag von Benutzer:Stopsi; warum ist anzunehmen das du Andreas Stops vom Management Podolskis bist? und weiterer; sagt das Management immer die wahrheit? *grins* ...Sicherlich Post 14:25, 14. Jun 2006 (CEST) Gerne kannst du unter 02161/821280 anrufen. Diese Nummer steht auch auf Lukas´ Website. Für weitere Infos stehe ich gerne zur Verfügung. Wieso sollte man eine doppelte Staatsbürgerschaft leugnen? Gruß Andreas Stops

Wenn das so ist sollten wir den Artikel auch entsprechend ändern. Oder hat jemand wirklich handfeste Belege für den polnischen Pass? Diese polnische Zeitung war wohl bisher die einzige Quelle für eine doppelte Staatsangehörigkeit. Hans Schäfer 11:20, 15. Jun 2006 (CEST) In der aktuellen Ausgabe der SportBild sagt Podolski, er habe keine doppelte Staatsbürgerschaft. --BLiZz@rD 16:00, 15. Jun 2006 (CEST)

Ich habe es rausgenommen. --Streifengrasmaus 16:06, 15. Jun 2006 (CEST)

Podolski has carried Polish passport, Polish nationality and Polish citizenship because he his Polish parents and all children of Polish parents have Polish nationality and citizenship as a matter of Polish law. edit for diction and grammar, hopefully without changing meaning Radio Guy (talk) 23:48, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Can anyone find any sources either way? Kingjeff 20:51, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Just read his Interview in the magazine SportBild from 15.June 2006. Because he has no polish passport, he could not play for the Polish national team. If you don´t believe me ask his management under 02161/821280 !

Player Profile

1. FC Köln is used in this section as is 'Cologne'. Is there a naming method and if so can it be stuck to.. use German names throughout or English, don't mix and match. Evident in this line: "Even though Cologne failed to avoid the drop Podolski had shown what he could do, scoring 10 goals in his first 19 senior appearances. This was the best tally by an 18 year old in the history of the Bundesliga." Thnom 09:41, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Votes for Deletion outcome

Per the discussion at VfD, this article has been kept. --TenOfAllTrades(talk) 23:43, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Sources?

Can a source be provided for these comments/conjectures?

 Germany coach Jurgen Klinsmann is continously praising him 

 Because of this, clubs such as Bayern München have manifested their interest in Podolski

Aabha (talk) 14:14, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

That Klinsmann is high on Luke is well known, but there is no article that really pinpoints it. That FCB has interest in Podolski is really well-documented, but only in German media. Podolski has been targeted by MANY big German clubs. Onomatopoeia 08:16, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

No need for more discussions because Podolski achieved both of the claims. He became the striker of Germany(teamed with Klose) and he moved to Bayern München. With respect, Deliogul 22:30, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Podolski's origin

Well someone (Jacek Kendysz) changed Podolski's origin from Silesian to Polish. My question is whether he is also of German origin. If not why would he otherwise be given the German nationality? I believe Miroslav Klose is truly of German ethnicity. Meursault2004 16:46, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/weltfussball/artikel/202/79123/

Am Sitz der "Sozial-kulturellen Gesellschaft" der deutschen Minderheit im oberschlesischen Oppeln (Opole) wie auch im Haus der Deutsch-Polnischen Zusammenarbeit in der sechzig Kilometer südöstlich gelegenen Industriestadt Gleiwitz (Gliwice) herrscht geradezu Jubelstimmung: Die Oppelner sind stolz auf den in ihrer Stadt geborenen Miroslav Klose, sein Vater Josef stammt aus einer deutschen Familie. Die Gleiwitzer sind nicht minder stolz auf den von dort kommenden Lukas Podolski; seine Großmutter wohnt noch dort, ihre Muttersprache ist Deutsch.

Die Familien Klose und Podolski sind in den achtziger Jahren als Spätaussiedler in die Bundesrepublik gekommen. Sie hatten Anspruch auf die Aufnahme in die Bundesrepublik, weil die Großeltern vor dem Krieg Reichsbürger waren. Das kommunistische Regime in Warschau bestritt zwar offiziell, dass in Oberschlesien noch Deutsche lebten. Doch war es auf Kredite aus dem Westen angewiesen.

I think his grandmother/grandfather was a ethnic Pole, but was born in Silesia when it was German in about 1935 and therefor she/he was a German citizen. Therefor the family had the right to go to Germany in 1987.

I don't know if Lukas Podolski is of German ancestry. Answer for your question: it's possible to acquire German citizenship by naturalization (you can read about it here). Jacek Kendysz 14:33, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Is he both Sielesian and Polish, because Silesia has both Czech, Pole and German peoples. Bona Fides 21:11, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Podolskis family came as Aussiedler, this means specifically that they claimed German ethnicity and on that basis receceived citizenship. Two states in the world award citizenship to foreign nationals based on their ancestry: Germany and Israel. Read about it at de: Lukas Podolski and de:Aussiedler

How do we know all this. Is there anyway we can comfirm this? Kingjeff 00:37, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Couple of myths to dispell. Germany and Israel arent the only ones. Asamoah also was awarded citizenship. His father was Waldemar Podolski (Pole), his grandma and cousins live in Gliwice (Poles). A lot of Poles migrated to Germany for political/economic reasons in the 80s, some with ancestors, some without. Give some sources which precisely give who in his family, if anyone, was German. We know Miroslav's dad was half-German. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.5.241.79 (talk • contribs) 01:52, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

His family come from Kresy, as most people in Gliwice — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.5.198.167 (talk • contribs) 04:29, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Here is something some of you might be able to do. How about looking for a source to see if he has any German background? If we find something, problem solved. Kingjeff 03:33, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I think Lukas is one of the sweetest football player of the germany football worldcup group. I am a fan of him. But who not???

Poldi doesn't dislike the German anthem. He exclaimed it was "fantastic" to have it on his boots. http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/060511/1/6r0a.html I don't know if he sung it. Perhaps he didn't. Perhaps he did. It's not interesting and not proven or disproven by any one so far. No need to argue about stuff too trivial to be called "trivial". There are songs about him. That's more remarkable . City-17 22:35, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

As per the article: "The Podolski family had the right to move to Germany because his (mixed Slavic-German Upper Silesian) grandparents had been residents of the German empire (Reich) until 1945 when they became Polish citizen."

I'm not sure why this description is so ambiguous and odd. Posolski's parents are both considered ethnic Germans by Germany because their grand parents were all ethnic Germans -- citizens(not "residents"). Just going to shorten this and clean it up. Ernham 19:11, 4 August 2006 (UTC)ernham

Photo of Podolski and Boruc

I know that the two of them are both of Polish descent, but they do play for different teams, Boruc for Poland, Podolski - Germany. The caption as currently written is misleading to people who don't know Podolski's true origin. For the sake of international football Podolski is all German, thus...I think a rewrite of that caption is in order to clearly distinguish that Podolski (while polish by descent) is not talking to a teammate in Boruc, but an opponent who happens to also be from the country that Podolski hails from. Batman2005 01:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree --Splette 00:17, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

Do we really need the trivia section that was added a week ago? It seems clearly POV to me as all the points are about how 'polish' Podolski is. --Splette 02:49, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

good point, trivia sections are generally looked down on. For the most part, anything that is encyclopedic enough to be listed in "Trivia" will likely be in the article elsewhere. Batman2005 03:22, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Or the title of the paragraph should be changed in something like "Podolski and Poland". Meursault2004 11:20, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, there are now new infos which have nothing to do with Poland. Let's hope the list gets thicker with awards and such as his career progresses. Pawel z Niepolomic 14:13, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Insert non-formatted text here== Zofia Budzińska ==

Please provide a source which supports the Reichsbürger theory. Also, "Babcia" does not speak German als Muttersprache. Pawel z Niepolomic 18:00, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

The source clearly states "Die Familien Klose und Podolski sind in den achtziger Jahren als Spätaussiedler in die Bundesrepublik gekommen. Sie hatten Anspruch auf die Aufnahme in die Bundesrepublik, weil die Großeltern vor dem Krieg Reichsbürger waren." - The families of Klose and Podolski have come to the Federal Republic as late-emigrants of the 80s. They had the right to immigrate because their grandparents were citizens of Imperial Germany before the war.

Who or what "Babcia" is you can explain or not.

Answer given, case closed and stop undoing other parts you haven't commented on (like the image caption or the question of his Polish passport)! City-17 18:14, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

The journalist, Urban, should be taken with a grain of salt, as he didn't even take the time to check if his Grandma speaks Polish or German als Muttersprache. The headline immediately gives away the author's intentions. If you could provide another neutral source which proves the Reichsbürger theory, then we can include it. As for the citizenship issue, many Polish citizens do not have passports. As far as "dla Babci", Bigos and Heimat go...

Don't try to focus on the author rather than on the article, or is there anything extremely special to know about him which has the undeniable ability to void all his works' credibility?

Maybe there are Polish citizens without passports, there are, and that's for sure, A LOT of German citizens that don't speak German. His grandmother's language doesn't make any change.

If you have any idea of German newspapers, please understand that BILD is not the most authoritative amongst them. Of course this doens't mean it's wrong. Though, I can't find any statements in that url of yours which have a meaning for that article.

Yours faithfully City-17 19:46, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

The mentioned fact that Podolski is the first player since Gerd Müller to score four goals in an international match is not true: Michael Ballack has made four goals against Malta (7-0) in 2004.

Yes, right here it is http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/printfriendly/0,4139,63033,00.html so hes the third german *changed* and I added by back the trivia any one dare to object? Trivia is found on many footballer pages.--Yu5uF 16:08, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I combined the trivia about Podolski's feelings about Germany and Poland in one trivia "bit", adding information about the unique boots he wears and his impressions of them. 68.115.63.242 16:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)ernham

Point by point

The Podolski family had the right to move to Germany because they were ethnically German, as Lukas's grandparents had been German citizens until 1945 when they "became" Polish citizens. Podolski grew up in Bergheim, North Rhine-Westphalia, near Cologne.

• Instead of tabloids, please show me a source from a respectable biography that states that his parents are "ethnically German".

• I didn't write it but put that back in because it could be true. I found a source now and edited it. City-17 17:39, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Despite being born in Poland, Podolski has German citizenship only.

• Should read: As a result of being born in Poland, has Polish citizenship . That you include such a "fact" kind of reveals your intentions.

• It reveals MY INTENTIONS? You don't know MY intentions. You only know YOUR intentions. See the above section No Polish Passport. Podolski admitted to not having a Polish passport in SportBild. City-17 17:39, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

He wears unique shoes that display the Brandenburg Gate and have inscribed the words 'Unity, justice and freedom' -- from the German national anthem. "It is special to have the words of the national anthem printed on my boots. It is fantastic," Podolski said.

• I seperated this "tidbit" and requested a citation. Now see why I revert your version? Esp. with the historical name on a contemporary topic? Now please try editing some other articles instead of only Podolski and Klose, and how not-Polish they are. Pawel z Niepolomic 16:18, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

• You did't read the discussion page, I provided a citation already: . And you didn't read my most recent version, there was NO »historical name on a comtemporary topic« anymore!

What article I edit, it's none of your business. City-17 17:39, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Please explain Pawel z Niepolomic how the clubs in which his parents had played are relevant to the early career of Lukas. Please explain on which sources you base your »He is a dual Polish-German citizen« and why this would overwrite the information about his passport. City-17 11:51, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I will trim it. His bio is the source. Many Poles dont have passports, yet they are still Polish citizens. Pawel z Niepolomic 23:16, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

His »bio« is your source? Where exactly is his bio? Just because you say many Poles don't have passports doesn't make that statement wrong. I also fail to see why you insist on »emigrated«. Explain these things first before you force them again. City-17 00:12, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Schweinski

I have noticed that there is a considerable lack of the Schweinski angle in this page. if You don't know what I'm talking about, Bastian "Schweini" Schweinsteiger + Lukas "Poldi" Podolski=Schweinski. They are great team mates that are always cooperating and work very well together. There has been a lot made of this in the German Media and I can't help but notice this page is pathetically ignorant of it.

--Jadger 04:13, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

And how can we incorporate that into the page? Kingjeff 04:14, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure, I am asking for input/ideas to help with this. I know for instance, that Schweinsteiger was responsible for recruiting him to come to Bayern over the other big name clubs, as they are best friends. that could be included following the section about the trade from Köln.

--Jadger 14:34, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

He's a Polish footballer too.

As a Polish citizen (he has) and native Pole we should called him as a Polish fotballer too! Not only German. Kowalmistrz 19:14, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

He is not Pole! He's not even polish citizen. He's native SILESIAN. If you don't believe me just ask him 80.49.150.73 14:20, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

He was asked in interview after Polish-German match. i saw it in TV. Podolski said, in POlish, that he has two fatherlands and his heart beats for both Poland and Germany. Szopen (talk) 14:51, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Also in German: http://www.tagesspiegel.de/sport/;art272,2062857 "„Man kann so sagen: Ich habe zwei Heimaten“, sagt Podolski." Szopen (talk) 14:56, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

In POlish: "Setki razy mówiłem, że Polski się nie wyprę. Nigdy. " "Hundred of times I said that I won't deny Poland" - http://www.sport.pl/sport/1,90858,5284464,Podolski_typuje_final__Niemcy___Polska.html

Why he doesn't play for Poland: because no one from Poland wanted him to. "What were you expecting? That I would go to Poland and beg?"

" Zaraz pewnie usłyszę, że poleciałem na kasę i nie mam honoru, że polscy działacze się o mnie bili, prosili, żebym zagrał z orzełkiem na piersi, tylko ja to wszystko miałem gdzieś. Mam już dość tych bzdur. Prawda jest inna, to z waszej strony nikt mnie nie chciał" "Nikt nie proponował mi gry dla Polski, gdy jeszcze to było możliwe. Co miałem robić? Przyjechać i upraszać się, by ktoś z reprezentacji się mną zainteresował? Bądźmy poważni."

http://www.sport.pl/sport/1,65025,5284694,Podolski__Nikt_z_Polski_sie_o_mnie_nie_bil.html

I think this is clear, that his primary nationality is German, but he many times stressed that ties with Poland are VERY IMPORTANT for him. Szopen (talk) 10:28, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, there's no Silesian nationality! "Silesian people" is an ethnic group, a part of the Polish nation. Related with West Slavs and Germans, and the most with Polish Slavs, the modern people of Poland. And HE HAS a Polish citizenship! As a son of Polish citizens born in Poland he has since his birth. It's by the Polish law. Kowalmistrz 18:12, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

He's the son of his Polish born parents and he was born in Poland too. That's why it says his nationality is polish. Kingjeff 18:16, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

see the previous discussion on this talk page about this controversy. He was an ausiedler, and emigrated to Germany under the special laws for people defined as ausiedler. As a comparison, Owen Hargreaves is a Canadian footballer, as he is a Canadian citizen and was born in Canada, he is only a England footballer because he plays for England, he is not an English footballer.

Also, another interpretation of the term. He is not a "Polish footballer", as he has never played for Poland or any Polish club. The closest he has come to being a Polish footballer is when he played against Poland in the WC, and if everyone who plays against Poland is Polish, well then there are a lot of Polish footballers... perhaps Jens Lehmann is also a Polish footballer, as he held a clean sheet against Poland.

So far, I have seen no evidence that he retains Polish citizenship.

--Jadger 06:10, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, if you are born a Polish citizen, it is quite difficult to get out of it. Consider this (from Polish nationality law):

Loss of Polish citizenship

Since 1962, Polish law (including the Constitution) does not allow the government to revoke someone's citizenship. Renunciation of Polish citizenship requires a petition with extensive supporting documentation subject to the approval of the President of Poland. Administrative processing of the petition can take up to several years and the President's decision is final and cannot be appealed in court.

Since we have no evidence that Podolski went through this complicated procedure and thus got rid of the citizenship he acquired at birth, we can be fairly certain he remains a Polish citizen by law. Still, given that he left Poland when he was a toddler, calling him Polish is not justified, unless evidence is presented that he himself desires this. Balcer 06:44, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Who cares about these pointless details. He was born in Poland, lived in Germany for most of his life and now plays for Germany at the national level. We know he was born in Poland but why do all Polish people want some recognition for this? To make up for the fact that your national team isn't what it "could be". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.202.5.244 (talk) 19:45, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

getting a german passport you have too give up all others (usualy?) - so his only nationality is German because of German nationality laws banning double nationality —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.164.204.109 (talk) 16:59, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Orzechowski demands revoking citizenship from Klose and Podolski http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/Wiadomosci/1,80269,5293215,Orzechowski__odebrac_obywatelstwo_Podolskiemu.html

Well, you can't revoke citizenship from someone, who does not have it. Szopen (talk) 10:15, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Most countries do not recognize the concept of dual citizenship but merely turn a blind eye when their citizens bocome citizens of other countries. Podolski must have been a Polish citizen by birth. Unless there were special provisions in some treaty between Poland and Germany concerning abandonment of citizenship by Polish citizens moving to Germany by virtue of their German ancestry, Podolski could not simply give up its Polish citizenship by becoming a German citizen. It is actually very difficult to give up one's citizenship for any reason. So, barring any special provisions, Podolski in the eyes of the Polish law is still a Polish citizen. Conversely, because the concept of dual citizenship is commonly not recognized, I guess that according to the German law, a person may become a German citizen only if they agree to give up their previous citizenship. And because the German law does not mean anything in Poland, such an act of citizenship abandonment is not recognized by the Polish state. Therefore, the discussion about Podolski's citizenship is pointless because the correct answer depends on from what angle you look at it. His loyalty is with Germany and that is the only thing that matters.128.146.238.235 (talk) 20:52, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I know Germany didn't accept dual citizenship, but from what I've heard, they do now. Same thing goes for Poland and Sweden.

Norum (talk) 17:45, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 23:14, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Politics and sports

It matters not what his nationality is or was. What matters is what kind of footballer he is — and what sort of Mensch he is. Too bad certain politicians (such as Mirosław Orzechowski) on either side of the Oder can't accept that we are all human beings.

Sca (talk) 22:10, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

You are totally right. And Orzechowski was widely condemned by majority of Poles. This guy sits in government offices and apparently has nothing to do so stupid stuff comes to his head. BTW Podolski is great, his left foot is magic. Tymek (talk) 03:31, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Wrong information

Podolski didn't help Germany a 1 - 0 lead cause Turkey scored scored the first goal, Podolski passed the ball to Schweinsteiger to even the score. ADB15 (talk) 21:18, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Club career stats

¿Don't you think that All-time club performance chart should be a part of the sub-section "Club Career"? I think that this would be the right place for it as it reflects and complements the club career info. I might be starting a discussion on this topic in Wikiproject Football. Mannschaftskapitän (talk) 04:29, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

German city name

Why do people add over and over German translation for Gliwice on this page? It can be easily found on Gliwice, there is no reason to add it here (even more so, as it was a Polish city when Lukas Podolski was born there). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Konkursor (talk • contribs) 21:40, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Konkursor, why did you recently remove e.g. Danzig from several articles, violating the Gdansk/Danzig double naming policy? -- Matthead  Discuß   23:09, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Was'nt Lukas Podolski actually born in Gleiwitz, Silesia, which came under Polish Administration as Gliwice in 1945 ?

There is much talk about Lukas Podolski, as well as Miroslav Klose and others, having been born in Poland. Lukas was actually born in 1985 in Polish Administered Silesia.

The territory including Gleiwitz, Silesia, German Empire, was in 1945 conquered by Soviet Union, who gave it to Communist Polish Administration.

For Misplaced Pages to reflect International Law and to be correct it would have to state that Lukas Podolski was born in Polish Administered Silesia, and not that he was born in Poland.

Podolski , Klose and others of native German Silesian families, born in territory under Communist Polish Administration since 1945 conquest by Soviet Union, held automatic German citizenship. Upon arrival in Western Germany they automatically received their German passports. An Observer 9 September 2008

Interesting. Now get a gun and start another war. Haven't we had enough of them in Europe? Tymek (talk) 05:00, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

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