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| == messages == | == messages == | ||
| == Freemasonry == | |||
| I hope I didn't come across as being rude, or overly dismissive of your comments at the Freemasonry Project. If so, I appologize, it was not intentional. Having taken a look at your edit history, I note that you seem to have some misconceptions about the fraternity. I would be happy to answer any questions that you may have about Freemasonry, or act as a sounding board for ideas and suggested edits. Best ] (]) 13:06, 21 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :I don't have that many misconceptions ; I just don't agree with your idea that it is compatible with Christianity or any other religion. For instance, the great majority of Masons today are members of the Grand Orient lodges, which are agnostic/atheist, like ] for example. Concerning the deist Masons, my views are essentially close to those of liberal Anglican leader ], who has serious disagreements with Anglican Masons because of an official CoE report which all but confirms the narrative that the Great Architect is none other than the evil ]. ] (]) 15:30, 21 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ::I respect your view that Freemasonry is incompatable with Christianity. I don't agree with it (as I am both a devout Episcopalian and a Freemason), but I do respect it as being ''your'' opinion on the matter. What I am talking about is your misconception of the ''facts'' about Freemasonry, not your opinion of it. For example, you are wrong in saying that the great majority of Masons today are members of the Grand Orient Lodges. The majority are members of Lodges that are in amity with the UGLE and the 51 US Grand Lodges (at last estimate, about 5,000,000 world wide... while the various Grand Orients can claim less than 1,000,000 world wide). Second, while the Grand Orients do accept Atheists, by no means are ''all'' Grand Orient Masons Atheist. In fact, the ''majority'' of Grand Orient Masons are Catholics (perhaps not ''good'' Catholics, given the Vatican's stance on Masonry... but Catholics never the less). As for Archbishop Williams's views... both he and the Anglican Church as a whole have backed away from their concerns about Freemasonry (he now says that Freemasonry ''isn't'' deistic and that there is no incompatability with the Anglican church). | |||
| ::Finally, no... the ] is not the "evil Jahbulon"... the term is a non-denominational reference to God. For the Christian Mason (as I am) the term is understood to refer to the Trinitarian concept of God the Father, Jesus Christ his son and the Holy Spirit. Yes, those of other faiths will have a different concept of what this term refers to. The Jewish Mason will understand it to refer to Jewish conceptions of God, the Muslem Mason will understand it to refer to Allah. The point is, that Freemasonry does not define the term, it leaves it up to the individual to define for himself. I (as a Christian) may think that Jews and Muslims have a flawed concept of God, but for the sake of harmony in the lodge I agree not to argue about it and to use a term for God that we can all agree on. By the way, the term is not Deist... In fact, it was used by both Aquinus and Calvin long before it was used by Masons. The Freemasons took it from Christian writings. | |||
| ::Hope this clarifies some of your misconceptions. ] (]) 16:14, 21 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :::Sorry, but in my book, you are not a ''true Mason'', but merely a ''pawn'', because you have not yet attained the 32nd Degree, as described in ]'s book ]. The differences between 2nd Degree and 32nd Degree are so vast that it is really two different organizations, which involves a vast system of lies and false explanations on the part of the lower-level Masons. When you get there, you will become a true Satanist, as understood by Pike's rendering of Lucifer, which is ''Light bearer''. You will also have to perform the ] ritual, which involves spitting on crosses and cursing the Pope. After that, you will find out that there are major similarities between the Craft and the ], Blavatsky's ], the ], ], ]/Witchcraft and ]. By the way, I have conversed with arch-priests of Christianity who spend their time infiltrating lodges in other to re-program Masons and remove the occult elements from the higher orders. I feel like I am done talking about this and I would like to end the discussion right now. ] (]) 16:59, 21 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ::Actually, I could become a 32nd degree Mason tomorrow, if I so desired... all I would have to do is pay an initiation fee, and sit through the degree. It really is that simple. The Scottish Rite does not make you go through each degree in order (it is typically given three or four degrees in a sitting, and you don't have to have taken the "lower" numbered degrees before you take the "higher" ones.) | |||
| ::The idea that all of this is tied in some way to Satanism is bunk and comes directly from Leo Taxil's hoax... suggest you read up on that. But... you probably would not believe anything a Mason tells you (as you probably think we are either lying or dupes). Try a non-Masonic source: Historian John Robinson's ''A Pilgrim's Path'' which discusses all of these allegations, and debunks them. | |||
| ::What concerns me more than anything, are comments such as the one you posted ... where you accuse Freemasons of supporting pedophilia. That comes very close to being actionable hate speach. You have every right to think the worst of Freemasonry... but keep such opinions to yourself and out of Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 22:30, 21 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :::Well, it isn't made up ; there are several pedophile affairs in Belgium and France which have alleged Masonic links, such as the ] affair, and the affairs brought up by magistrate ]. I also found this interesting article about pro-pedophile judges who were alleged to be Freemasons. The CIA was also said to have powerful ties to drug trafficking, child trafficking and secret societies. ] (]) 22:34, 21 March 2009 (UTC | |||
| ::::The Dutroux does not mention Freemasonry... the Motgolfier article simply talks about Montgolfier's allegations about judges being Masons. Nothing about anyone being "pro-pedofile". | |||
| ::::The saddest part of all this is that you seem actually believe all this Anti-Masonic crap. ] (]) 01:54, 22 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
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