Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 03:39, 27 November 2005

Archive 1.
Archive 2.

Stop personal attacks

I saw what Zora said, and like it or not that is no excuse to call her Jewish (she's Buddhist) nor say you will be there to kick her anything. Stop right now, that is completely against wikipedia policy. gren グレン 00:51, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Hi Zereshk! My understanding is that "rest assured I will be there to kick your *** as long as it takes" is not in concordance with generally accepted standards of behavior on the wiki. Thanks! Babajobu 00:52, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Zereshk, she's not Jewish, she was making a point about the multiculturalism and the like. In any case, I am not very harsh with people about personal attacks. I don't think they are very good but I don't both too much dealing with them as the create controversy and people through around "he attacked me" like pre-schoolers sometimes. However, your attack involved a physical aspect which... well, just never cross that line here, okay? I am not taking sides, Zora doesn't say things like that. She get frustrated because she doesn't think you have any sense of neutrality... and, I don't know much about your editing but Striver has made a mess of a lot of things with a strong Shia POV that is not neutral or scholarly. She may not have a case against you but she has a case against your writing. Historical Sunni-Shia relations has many, many problems that need to be fixed and I've seen other articles almost as bad. I don't think it's an attack against you because you're Shia or Persian (if you are in fact Persian, you are from Tehran no?). It's because she feels you don't separate your beliefs from your writing, and won't write neutrally... and I must say, in terms of neutral writing she is much better in my opinion. That's not taking sides, if she had said the same thing to you I'd have said something to her. gren グレン 01:17, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

My answer

She has called me worse things (such as "uneducated, mentally psychotic,..." etc). Would you like me to give you a list? Please stop taking sides when you dont know this vicious racist. She has had clashes with other Iranian editors as well. Would you like me to contact them for you?--Zereshk 01:01, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

User:Zora 21:56, 31 October 2005 (UTC) said:

I often tell people that I'm an ecumenical Bundist (Bundists were anti-Zionist Jews).see her very last sentence--Zereshk 01:01, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Zereshk, well I have to tell you that Zora has fought some battles for Muslims and Shia on Misplaced Pages...for example, as a relatively secular editor I thought the term "prophet" was inappropriate for Misplaced Pages, but Zora argued that Muhammad should be able to be described as "the prophet", and that this was not POV. She also has been supportive of the candidacies for adminship of other Muslim editors. I know she has a respect for, and interest in, Shia Islam, and can't imagine why she would be racist against Persians. However, the comments you describe her making are obviously unacceptable in Misplaced Pages.

On another note, Zora mentioned to me that the Shia Islam article had become full of PBUHs and so forth, so I was attempting to purge this sort of POV from the article. Not because I disrespect Muslims or Islam--I don't--but because encyclopedias are not written from this point of view. I would feel the same if a Christian editor described Jesus as "The Christ" and so forth. Misplaced Pages cannot speak to the "truth" of any particular religious tradition, no matter how fervently its adherents believe. Anyway, nice to make your acquaintance, and hope to see you around! Babajobu 01:05, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

I've certainly been very angry at you, Zereshk, but I don't think I've called you names. If I have, I'm sorry. That doesn't mean that I don't still adamantly oppose many of your opinions and editing practices. Zora 01:11, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Zereshk, I'm not Jewish

Zereshk, I'm NOT Jewish. I've never been a Jew. My mother was a Mormon from Texas and my father was Swedish-Finnish. I was raised as a Congregationalist (a Protestant Christian mainline denomination) and converted to Buddhism when I was fifteen or so. Thinking that the Bundists were right in their rejection of nationalism doesn't make me a Jew in the ethnic or religious sense.

Besides, would it be so bad to be a Jew? What's wrong with that? Zora 02:13, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Hello again, Zereshk! Just one comment...I noticed that in your chat with Zora you mentioned that American Jews are famous for their hatred of Iranians. Having lived for a number of years in the United States and specifically in Los Angeles, I must tell you that this is not at all the impression I got. In fact, at this point I believe that a significant proportion of American Jews are actually from Iran, or the children of people from Iran. To the extent that I interacted with Jews in Los Angeles, there seemed to be a great deal of mixing between American-born Jews and Iranian-born Jews, as well as much interest and curiousity on the part of the American-born ones about the culture and background of the Iranian-born ones. They didn't seem to hate Iran at all! Anyway, just thought I'd mention that; regardless, have fun on Misplaced Pages and see you around! Babajobu 02:46, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Ah, well I guess there are some nuances I didn't appreciate, then! Babajobu 03:11, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Go rest

Im on it! --Striver 03:48, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, really sad, the murder... what a bad coincidence that he was there... Unfortunatly, i dont have the knowledge to make a article about that. I would excpect 0 (zero) coverage of that in the western media... --Striver 03:56, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Avicenna

Hello Zereshk , on Avicenna's Talk page ,I wrote "Can speak any of these dialects etc" , and I meant that the person's words about "close examination" had no basis and change of dialects in time is something obvious, I didnt meant that Iranians cant speak these dialects! In fact I did a good search to prove the origin of Avicenna and added Persian-Tajik for being absoloutely unbiased since some sources call him Iranian and others Persian , so if in Persian-Tajik we interpret Persian as Iranian , then Tajik is a sucategory of Iranian family ,if we interpret Persian as Parsi as opposed to Azeri etc then Avicenna is both Persian and Tajik equally according.I am Iranian myself man!Pasha 03:58, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Nice article on Ophthalmology

Hi Zeresh. I came across you from Yuber's talk page. That article on opthalmology was nice. Whateverdude 09:40, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Ibn Hawqal

Hi Zereshk,

I just saw your article on Ibn Hawqal; though I agree that Misplaced Pages badly needs an article on him, I'm worried that it seems to be copied word-for-word from the Encyclopedia of Ukraine. Am I misunderstanding? I've tagged it as a possible copyvio for now--if I've misread the situation, please just leave a note on the article's talk page. If you have cut and pasted this, please be aware that at Misplaced Pages we can't use information taken verbatim from copyrighted sources. Thanks, and happy editing! --Dvyost 05:17, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, I don't see that it's a copyvio.... it does look like it has been paraphrased... which, is fine if it's referenced I believe. Using my judgment as an admin I will not delete it since it doesn't seem to be verbatim for much of the article at all. However, I do encourage you (Zereshk) to cite where you got that information. gren グレン 07:17, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

You know, I looked at this again, and must have just been blind stupid while I was editing earlier. Gren's absolutely right that this is a paraphrase and I'm not sure how I got the two mixed up on my screen. My sincerest apologies, and thanks to Gren for the catch. --Dvyost 07:23, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Zereshk, when you have the time can you source it. gren グレン 01:52, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Pictures

I was just looking at at Iranian architecture and I saw some pictures you took... very nice. gren グレン 01:52, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Stubs

You, like Striver, have been creating a great number of stubs lately... please reference them so we don't run into problems with them... since they are (relatively) obscure subjects it may be hard to find them online so if you could just give us your sources it would make everything a lot easier. Thanks. Also, if you could add the proper birth/death categories when you have the information it would be of great help to the effort. Quality over quantity. gren グレン 03:33, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Since I know (and thank you for it) you are doing a lot of work I understand why you wouldn't want to waste the time properly categorizing or adding stubs. However, please do write the names and pages of the books under a references section. You can copy and paste one bibliography and just add page numbers as they come up. You needn't add reference notes and if it is a paraphrase you can add a breadth of pages, (if the section is five pages just add 105-109, 210, 320 ) however just having the whole book is not proper. Having this in articles is not clutter it is necessary. We can take the academics at Britannica on good faith and not expect citings, but we cannot take random users from the internet. Please do this and I will try to look at your new pages when I have the chance to fix stubs and categories as are needed. I just saw you on new pages so tried to see what else you were creating and when I noticed a pattern I decided to ask you about it. I'm sorry if you see this as an obstacle but it is merely a necessity. Every article that makes it as featured, or even good must be well referenced (obscure figures' births are not common knowledge) even if not directly footnoted. There is a difference between the two and footnoting can be needless clutter, however referencing is not. It's avoiding plagiarism. Therefore I must add unreferenced when they are not. I hope you do not take it as picking on you, it is just because in the scheme of new articles yours are far more interesting than suicide art and therefore I do hope they come up to a higher standard than silly vanity articles and ones about new software. gren グレン 04:02, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Don't worry about sounding curt, and know that I do appreciate your work on the many subjects. I am not trying to give you a hard time by any means. About Zora. She has been a good editor here since before I joined and is always willing to pick up a book and do some research. I haven't seen her interactions with you really (besides the Jewish thing) so I can't really say, but I would recommend trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. Striver will say that she (and has said about me) is anti-Shia and I would definitely not believe that. She may have a point of view that is more sceptical about some Shia claims but if that is so it is because she is trying to have the utmost academic integrity. When Striver first came a while back... well, simple put he could be a real nuisance. Looking at this diff, he completely changed the Sahaba article rating the Sahaba in a completely unsourced manner that glossed over people having views that differed from his ranking. He has at other times been difficult and Zora, who takes the time to read scholarly books, on this manner has to spend more time arguing than writing. Now, I don't know your specific arguments but if you are coming off like Striver (and I know you support Striver at times) then I can see why she may be more irritable from the start. I mean, on Talk:Umar Striver is railing against her when she has a good point that should at least be discussed. Striver, may also have brought up a good point... but he adds "shame on you Zora" and crap like that in. We should not be talking like that... and I know Zora has been snappy... but, she has always been more civil in my book. So, try to keep good relations with her. She is not out to get Shia as Striver would say... she's probably just frustrated with Striver. So, it's good for you to help add a Shia point of view, but source it well and add it in as a neutral way, not as truth and things should be fine. Striver rewrote Umar, Uthman, and Abu Bakr all to say they were bad people... and that's now how you write an encyclopedia. So, I am glad you will bring more information about the Shia and Iran. This is very good and will help the readers, as long as you are not doing it to prove that either point of view is correct. Represent them neutrally and things should be fine... but, you have to be willing to talk and negotiate. Unsourced material anyone can change and can likely get away with it... but sourced material, if changed, will usually be checked and scrutinized to make sure the change should take place. I know you want to just be able to contribute and not have to argue about it... but, sometimes if people think you're writing too much from a point of view you will have to discuss it. That's just a reality that I can't change. I commend your efforts and I hope the above explains some of the situation and maybe will help to cool tensions. If not, I don't know. Good luck with studying MRIs that seems very interesting :) Thanks. gren グレン 14:02, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Help

Please vote to merge and redirect Islamofascism to Neofascism and religion...

... which is where it belongs. Vote here: BrandonYusufToropov 21:31, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Invitation to cooperation

Hello , I am doing some research on common misconceptions about Iran , Islam and Middle East in general , I think you might be interested in cooperation , I intened to peresent the result to an international group of individuals who have devoted their time and energy to promoting thinking "outside the box" (they include scientists , artists , mystics etc).If you are interested please email me.Cheers Pasha 09:07, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Hey!!

Hello, Some time ago I contacted you in regards to working on a website about Iran but you said that you had a lot on your plate and didn't have the time. But we shared the same point of view about the site. I am trying to become an admin, I would appretiate your support. Thank you

Here is My nomination

--Aytakin 03:31, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your vote. By the way your anime pics are very good!!!