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Bosnia and Herzegovina C‑class Mid‑importance

West Herzegovina Canton is part of the WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Bosnia and Herzegovina on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.Bosnia and HerzegovinaWikipedia:WikiProject Bosnia and HerzegovinaTemplate:WikiProject Bosnia and HerzegovinaBosnia and Herzegovina C This article has been rated as C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

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Infobox symbols

The symbols were found unconstitutional stop pushing your pov. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PRODUCER (talk • contribs)

bla bla bla...

Until there appear to be symbols accepted on both sides. .. these ones will stay. Misplaced Pages does not obey not any constituition!! should stop pushing your POV!! --Añtó| Àntó (talk) 09:38, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Ive already provided a source showing that symbols are no longer in use, meanwhile you failed to present an argument and continue to edit war. PRODUCER (talk) 17:02, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

These symbols arew still in use

• central square in Široki Brijeg:here you can clearly see the flag on right

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Glavni-most-slavlje09052.JPG

• county headquerters in Široki brijeg-here you can clearly see the coat of arms:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/File:%C5%BDupanija-zh06402.JPG http://commons.wikimedia.org/File:%C5%BDupanija_-zh06403.JPG

• municipality building i Široki Brijeg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/Opcina07584.JPG --Añtó| Àntó (talk) 07:41, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Third opinion

I am responding to a request on Misplaced Pages:Third opinion. In my opinion:

• Aradic-es: please review WP:CIVIL.
• PRODUCER is correct. The argument that the symbols should stay until some others "are accepted by both sides", is bogus. Until any symbols are accepted, NO symbols should appear.
• The pictures are irrelevant without knowing dates, and even if the pictures are current, the flags can still be traditional without being official symbols.
• While it is true that Misplaced Pages obeys no constitution, Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia that strives to publish official and verifiable facts. If the facts are that the symbols are no longer officially recognized, then they should not be used as representational symbols in this article.

Those are my opinions. ~Amatulić (talk) 20:37, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

OK here is my response:

• I don't think that I insulted anybody here (including PRODUCER, BTW).If I did ,show me,please.
• the point is:the federal government, court or smth like did not propose some other symbols-they just "banned" these ones. There are no any alternative symbols that might appear acceptable to both sides.neither imposed ones.
• the pictures ARE current. You can see the date when they are taken:it is enabled by metadata given to the files during shhoting by digital camera.And yes, the flag and coat of arms are official-you can see them on (CURRENT ) photos of the official plates in the county building.
• Website of west Herzegovina county government-you can see clearly coat of arms it.even flag if you search more. The sam symbols you can see at the website of Herzeg-bosnian county (aka Canton 10)

About PRODUCER and his modus operandi-you should take look:he does not correct anything. He simply reverts what he does not like. vene if it is sourced.And in his edit summarries accsuing everybody for "nationalism". I think that he is the one who should review WP:CIVIL.--Añtó| Àntó (talk) 05:16, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I would say that "bla bla bla" is an uncivil response, as well as your accusations of vandalism.

If no alternative symbols were proposed, and these symbols were banned by the government, then there's no compelling reason why this Misplaced Pages article should use them either. If none are acceptable to all sides, then none are acceptable in this article.

Regarding your allegations about PRODUCER: please review Misplaced Pages:Assume good faith. From my point of view, both of you appear to be actively editing in good faith on this project. ~Amatulić (talk) 05:58, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

• "bla bla bla" is my response on repeating the same "arguments" as mentioned in edit summaries. "vandalism" in this case does not include removing the disputed symbols and names but also all other edits made by me. If you see the history of this article, as well as Canton 10 and Bosniak language, you can see that PRODUCER was simply reverting all my edits-without checking-whether they were sourced or not!--Añtó| Àntó (talk) 08:20, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I lack the patience to reiterate all the things you've done but I will point out a few. You stubbornly scream "vandalism!" at absolutely all of my edits or anyone with a differing view, I'm unsure you know the meaning of the word WP:VAN. You never source anything, even when it comes to serious articles with accusations such as this and bring up nonsense like this , meant to spread misinformation and in no way help improve the article WP:NOTAFORUM.

I provided a source which states that they are no longer officially in use. Unless you can find one overturning the decision then your simply showing unofficial use of the symbols. PRODUCER (talk) 14:13, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

• I referr to your "edits" as "vandalism" because i do not sea other way to describe them .You don't edit. You simply erase what you don't like or disagree
• I made this comment , in order to show (and there plenty other sources) that Bosniaks sometimes identify themselves as "Turks" .you simply erased it calling it "nationalistic nonsense" (very civil,btw)-and I just quoted what Bosniak leaders said. Obvoiusly you don't like it to be known in public.but that is not

• Abput Grabovica and Doljani... I did not find (lot) reliable sources at the first time-Yes,that is true. but I did not erase the source that you inserted.
• Finally the most important thing :about these two counties. i have provided the sources that those symbols are in official use . If you pretend that you don't see that is your problem.And again ... in case of article about Canton 10: you simply (again) reverted all. Including this map. I do not know any other word to describe it but "v_ _ _ _ _ _ _"

  

--Añtó| Àntó (talk) 14:55, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

What would you call this edit here?

You wrote "Bosniaks or Turks", to suggest that Bosniaks were Turks, you had no intent on improving the article and instead added nonsense expected from an IP.

You have not provided sources, you've provided pictures. I'm asking for an actual source such as this one . Again I provided a source which states that they are no longer officially in use. Unless you can find one overturning the decision then your simply showing unofficial use of the symbols. PRODUCER (talk) 15:44, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Are these symbols official?

• de jure: partially -not recognized at the federal level. but at the local level-absolutely still official. as you can see on the official website And what makes you believe that usage by local government is not official??
• de facto :absolutely YES

I am sorry but I can not provide you sources that only you will judge about their validity. "kadija te tuži , kadija ti sudi" is not valid here! --Añtó| Àntó (talk) 17:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

You have not been asked to provide sources so one editor can review them. You are being asked to provide sources because Misplaced Pages policy requires you to do so. The web site you referenced is interesting but I don't see anywhere where it says that coat of arms is still an official symbol, or if it's just a legacy symbol used because the site happens to need an icon.

Until you can provide any source supporting your position, the images have no place in this article.

A third opinion was requested. I provided one. The purpose of a third opinion request is to cast a tiebreaking vote so that editors can quit fighting and go on improving the article. Your unwillingness to accept the opinions of two other editors (one of whom is uninvolved with this article), and your unwillingness to provide sources, has not been constructive.

If you disagree with the small consensus achieved here so far, I suggest you solicit responses from other editors via WP:RFC or pursue a more formal means of Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution. ~Amatulić (talk) 02:16, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

OK, here it is in Croatian:

Županija ima svoju zastavu i grb. Grb Županije je povijesni hrvatski grb u obliku stiliziranog štita, podijeljen vodoravno i okomito u 25 crveno bijelih polja-kvadrata, tako da je prvo polje u gornjem lijevom kutu crvene boje. Iznad stiliziranog štita nalazi se troplet vodoravno položen na štit iznad tri središnja polja. Grb je obrubljen zlatnom crtom. Zastava Županije sastoji se od tri boje: crvene, bijele i plave, s grbom u sredini. Boje su položene vodoravno.

English translation:

County has its flag and coat of arms. the coat of arms of the county is historical Croatian coat of arms in the shape of shield divide horizontally and vertically into 25 read andwhite fields-squares, so that the first field in the top left corner is red color.... The flag of the county is made of three colors :red white and blue,withe the coat of arms in the middle. Colors are arranges horizontally.

--Añtó| Àntó (talk) 07:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

That is a copy of the 1996 version of the constitution , the symbols were banned in 1997/1998 . PRODUCER (talk) 15:19, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Based on this, it still seems clear to me that the symbols don't belong in this article. Àntó, can you find a more recent source that countermands the 1998 constitution? ~Amatulić (talk) 17:05, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

This iks copied from th CURRENT version of the website. So, it mean that constituition is still valid for the local governement.--Añtó| Àntó (talk) 04:54, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

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