Misplaced Pages

Uladh

Northern Ireland naming dispute. You know you want to.

Lapsed Pacifist 09:40, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Unionist paramilitaries (1912 - )

What makes a loyalist unequivocally not a unionist? Could you please point me towards this Rubicon that must be crossed, or show me just how this political Pale is marked?

Lapsed Pacifist 17:59, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

It's a matter of precision. We do not use the term "nationalist paramilitaries" to describe the Provisional IRA, because this term implies a non-existent connection with the SDLP and other moderate nationalist groups. Demiurge 18:46, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

By the rationale of moderation, and to a lesser extent that of connection, the less-than-moderate DUP should be described as loyalist, rather than unionist. Yet I've never seen you do it.

Lapsed Pacifist 19:27, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Guns are the dividing line, and the DUP don't have them. They have (hypocritically) flirted with armed groups in the past but they don't have guns themselves. Just like your other pet phrase "six counties, "unionist paramilitaries" is straight out of the Sinn Féin phrasebook. The UDA, UVF, LVF and other armed groups on the unionist side and their supporters are universally described in the mainstream media as "loyalist", you're going to have to show a good reason why you want to call them something else.

(I'd be inclined to call the 1912 UVF "unionist" though, because they were part of the unionist mainstream in a way that the post-1969 groups weren't). Demiurge 19:43, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

"Guns are the dividing line.." Right. An armed nationalist becomes a republican. An armed unionist becomes a loyalist. So the Ulster Defence Regiment and the Royal Ulster Constabulary were loyalist organisations, but you haven't gotten around to putting that on their pages yet. You don't describe the DUP as loyalist as they don't have guns, yet you have no hesitation describing Sinn Féin as republican, yet Eddie Fullerton's family could easily tell you that Sinn Féin don't have guns either. The IRA do, and lots of them, but not Sinn Féin. As for the mainstream media "pet phrases", they refer to the Provisional IRA as the IRA, but the IRA article on Misplaced Pages ends in 1922. Go figure.

Lapsed Pacifist 20:02, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

"the Ulster Defence Regiment and the Royal Ulster Constabulary were loyalist organisations, but you haven't gotten around to putting that on their pages yet." -- neither have you gotten round to putting "unionist organizations" on their pages. Which suggests that you also see a distinction between the UDA/UVF/LVF and the RUC/UDR. (and before you run off and do this, I draw your attention to WP:POINT). Demiurge 20:12, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Their unionism is made obvious in their articles. Their loyalism is not, although I await your rectification. I see a distinction between them, of course; the latter were usually in uniform, and had the veneer of respectability which every state profers to its servants. The services the former provided to the state went largely unacknowledged.

Lapsed Pacifist 20:27, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

"Their unionism is made obvious in their articles." -- and so is the unionism of the LVF/UDA/UVF. Demiurge 20:29, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Which is why I'm not writing about unionism in their articles. I'm describing them as unionist in other articles, as I would with the uniformed groups, as this particular political philosophy informs much of their actions. As clear as an unmuddied lake, I would have thought.

Lapsed Pacifist 01:27, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

You would have more credibility on this if you were also inserting references to the PIRA, OIRA and INLA as "nationalist paramilitaries". You'd still be in the wrong, but at least you wouldn't be a hypocrite as well. Demiurge 08:46, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

And there was me thinking "Guns are the dividing line..". It's a clear demarcation on one side alright. Republicans have guns or support those who do, nationalists don't, so nationalist is used to describe those who reject utterly the use of violence. On the other side, however, loyalists have guns, as do unionists, and they both support those who do. The division is far less stark, which is why I see no need for false precision. There's as yet no term in the political lexicon to describe a unionist who rejects utterly the use or the threat of violence.

Lapsed Pacifist 09:40, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Since you're now admitting that your reason for making this change is to push your POV that the RUC/UDR/RIR/PSNI and UDA/UVF/LVF are equivalent, that leaves me in no doubt whatsoever that reverting your changes is appropriate. Demiurge 10:11, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I didn't say that they were equivalent. But you're attempting to mark a boundary that doesn't exist. Loyalism morphs almost seamlessly into unionism. The same cannot be said for nationalism and republicanism. Sinn Féin, and all sections of unionism have at one time or another defended killings, and argued that those who killed were right to do so. The SDLP have never done this.

Lapsed Pacifist 11:05, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Demiurge--Thanks for compromising on Basil Cardinal Hume. 63.164.145.85 11:29, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Tiny block

Hi there! I've placed a block on that IP for 15 minutes. I'll be monitoring the edits from that source after it expires. Let me know if you have any questions! --HappyCamper 18:20, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

No problem. It just so happened that I saw you place the test3 tag when I was on RC patrol and thought "hmm...better take a closer look at this". I'll wait and see what happens after the 15 minutes. --HappyCamper 18:25, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Ahoghill Attacks - "Weasel Words"

Ouch. I was just trying to tone down the horror unleashed by Lapsed Pacifist without turning it into a revert war. I'd feel bad if the 'weasel words' comment was aimed at me. Nearside 12:31, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

No, that's fine, I understand why you did it, and I agree. I guess I just still feel dirty from even being associated with LP's previous work. I'm glad you edited it out. Nearside 14:11, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

RE: User Rms125a@hotmail.com

Sir, I have done research on User:Rms125a@hotmail.com, Robert Sieger. He is using a number of IP's to make edits. Including:

• User:67.100.109.48
• User:63.164.145.85
• User:67.100.52.10
• User:70.19.74.24
• User:70.19.47.217
• User:70.19.63.169
• User:70.19.91.64
• User:67.100.55.13
• User:70.18.207.16

If you look at the "User contributions" for these IP's, as well as the Rms125a@hotmail.com account, you will see that the edits are of the same subject type, and style, the Robert likes to use. Also all but one of the IP's is New York City, and the lone hold-out is LA, but at Kinko's (or so it says). I feel like he is either spending some time in LA, or works for the IS department at Kinko's, etc, and is able to proxy through that facility. If you look at the talk pages for all the accounts mentioned, and the edits that he does, in total he would have been blocked along time ago for all the POV and style breaks that he has done. But, every time he gets in a little trouble he switches accounts. Also if you look at contributions, I don't know how he does it, he makes 50 edits an hour, he is like a machine sometimes, make little changes to one bio, then moves to the next and makes a little change, and so on. He must set there with a book, or IMDb, and just transfer facts, sometimes facts that are wrong, or hava a POV attached to them. If you look at these "User contributions" you will see that 90+% are biographies of either entertainers or politicians, and a majority of those are either Catholic, or Jewish. I just wonder what Robert is all about. But, I wish that he would eidt to the Manual of Style, How to Edit a Page, etc., but he doesn't, he does his own thing. I wish that some admin would block all of these accounts for a month, and ask him to conform to the body whole. He doesn't seem to add a lot of value, but instead adds fluffy items that seem to piss other contributors off.

Thanks for your time, User:IP4240207xx 03:14, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

"POV-pushing"

As I am disappointed with your campaign of constant misrepresentation of my edits, and your less-than-elegant reverts. We've already discussed the very large gray area where unionism meets loyalism. Why do you insist on beginning a section that includes Dublin with the words "In Northern Ireland" instead of "In Ireland"?

Lapsed Pacifist 17:08, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

John Charles McQuaid

Re. above edit history, whatever User:Rms125a@hotmail.com is saying about me, I do not know. Check out my user page - we're not the same person. In fact, I've been rv'ing his POV-pushing on the above page. Seeya - Ali-oops 19:55, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

• Got your message. I understand, just their strange comment had pushed my paranoia button. No worries - I think we both know who's confused! :-) Met you before, BTW, on a lot of the Irish-related pages. You'll see me there, too, tho' I had my username changed about a month ago - Ali-oops 21:23, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Spam

Demiurge, Sorry for my mistake earlier. I posted up a link to a new portal for Dublin but did go too far in posting to each area. I thought I was being useful at the time (both to the pages and to my site). I have also explained to but as you had the job of removing most of the links I thought I'd appologise to you too. Edster9999 15:00, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

TCD

Hi, I just noticed the nv blanking and wondered about your rationale. One can certainly question validity of these University Rankings (THES, Singapore ...), but their actual rankings are a matter of record. Dlyons493 12:51, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Barnstar

You so deserve it! :-) - Ali-oops 10:52, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

And thanks for reverting you-know-who's vandalism of my user page - Ali-oops 09:08, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Blocks

I blocked Rms125 for 15 minutes. I didn't escalate this further because it did not seem to be a persistent incident. If it continues, please let me know. --HappyCamper 02:21, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

RSF vandal

Any idea on how we can stop the persistent vandal of the RSF/CIRA etc pages (see User:217.43.172.38 for a list of the ISPs he's been using)? I'm pretty sure who this guy is - a young RSF member from Derry and currently on the Ard Chomairle of RSF. --Damac 10:17, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Iain Duncan Smith

Hi, just wondered why you removed the Catholic categories here, Duncan Smith is Catholic. Arniep 14:42, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Hi, the qualifier on the Roman Catholic cat seems a bit subjective, according to that criteria one could judge that only clergy/the pope/saints should be included! Duncan Smith actually converted to Catholicism so one might judge religion to be more important to him than others. I agree that some people shouldn't be included, for example people born into a Catholic family who have shown no interest in religion personally like Jack Nicholson. Arniep 18:10, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

UDR

I noticed above that you have been involved in reverting vandalism so why did you vandalise the UDR page? I know this is a controversial subject but if you have a problem with content you could at least have cut it down to the bare facts, i.e. The Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR) was an infantry regiment of the British Army. That would have been a drastic POV edit, your edit was plain vandalism. Mark83 21:33, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for getting back to me. Mark83 21:08, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Richard Doherty

Please don't mark edits as reverts. Putting in RV made it sound as though you reverted my edit and that there was something wrong with it. There wasn't. I didn't put in the dodgy stuff you removed. I simply deleted some of that nutty crap the previous editor has been plastering all over WP. I didn't add or take away anything else.FearÉIREANN 11:10, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Provisional Sinn Féin

I've done a major rewrite of Provisional Sinn Féin to try to make it approximately NPOV. I'd welcome a review. --Red King 23:39, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Sure Thing

Sure thing, although it was ultimately a gut reaction since that user has a history of trying to push through edits without consultation with others, against WP:RULES Key Policy #4. karmafist 23:13, 5 December 2005 (UTC)