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Labiaplasty

Curtis, With respect to the inclusion of additional information and further medical-based definition to the term "Labiaplasty," I was surprised to receive a message accusing the additions of being spam-based. The information I attempted to include on the page was for the purpose of more completely defining the procedure of Labiaplasty. The information was tastefully worded (while I agree the topic may likely be often exploited) and cited a prominent and pioneering OB/GYN physician of women's health care and minimally invasive procedures. The outside links were legitimate and referenced further information regarding the procedure. I would, respectfully, appreciate further explanation of your decision to remove the information and of the warnings messaged to me regarding the changes. I feel they were unwarranted and would like to have a better understanding should this situation arise again.

Thank you, Jayne Brown jayne@jaynewaynedesign.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaynebrown (talk • contribs) 06:28, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Could you please point me to what you're talking about? I've never edited any articles on that subject.--Curtis Clark (talk) 14:22, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Curtis, you left a welcome on Jaynebrown's talk page; Jaynebrown is being subjected to heavy reverting and block warnings by MBK004. --Una Smith (talk) 05:28, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Oh, okay, I get it. Because I cautioned her about linkspam in September of 2007, it's fair game to accuse me of the latest reversions. I'd say "I don't play that game", but, honestly, I'm not even sure what the game is.--Curtis Clark (talk) 14:18, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

I actually looked up the diff. Una, do you use those saddle blankets? Are they as good as the Aeron riding halter? I hope it's not just a trick to get people into a surgical center.--Curtis Clark (talk) 14:18, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and I also went to her web site. Imagine my total surprise that she offers SEO services. Hmmmm. Maybe I should contact her clients and tell them about the Misplaced Pages spam blacklist....--Curtis Clark (talk) 14:18, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

I think Jaynebrown clicked the link to your talk page by mistake, under stress. This user isn't posting the same links everywhere, so I think it is a case of an inexperienced editor trying to use their actual sources, not knowing how Misplaced Pages rates sources. I have no useful opinion re any of the products you asked about. --Una Smith (talk) 14:43, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

My interpretation (based on only two data points and her web site; I didn't look at all her contributions) is that she is trying to do SEO for her clients by putting spam links in Misplaced Pages. That can indeed be stressful when one is caught and called out.--Curtis Clark (talk) 01:16, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes. I wanted to say it a bit nicer than the templates, but, basically that appears to be what is going on. I don't think she'll be discussing the issue anymore. Oh, I see why you guys and gals are involved in it, she's also doing saddle blankets. --KP Botany (talk) 01:32, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Sure, but as a Misplaced Pages spammer this one is a lightweight. AGF, the newbie profile fits well. --Una Smith (talk) 16:25, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Which is the reason one should simply spell it out rather than spamming her talk page with creepy templates. Gives her a human being to interact with and a starting point, but makes it clear what the issue is. --KP Botany (talk) 20:00, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Would that she had asked me what my original warning meant, rather than waiting to contact me when it was by mistake....--Curtis Clark (talk) 23:28, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I think, though, the welcome and don't add links warning is fine for a first shot, it's after that, if the user doesn't get it, when conversation is needed rather than more posts. But, yes, just asking what you meant.... --KP Botany (talk) 23:48, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

FYI, the user is back using a different name, see User:Jaynewayne. I reverted the advertising they added and will leave a message on their talk page. - Josette (talk) 00:46, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Nymphaeaceae

Can you edit the photo to sit in its section--if they're Nymphaeaceae? I forget the markup for it. Thx.--KP Botany (talk) 07:05, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Like that?--Curtis Clark (talk) 14:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, thanks. I'll try to remember the article so I can do it in the future. --KP Botany (talk) 22:46, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Botanist-inline

Template:Botanist-inline has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. Jenuk1985 | Talk 23:23, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

IPA

Hi Curtis,

If you check out {{pron-en}}, you'll find IPA templates with links to keys for various languages which might prove handy. kwami (talk) 13:27, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Oh, with /hɛtəˈrɒməliːz/, a short stressed o is usually /ɒ/, not /ɑː/. I know, it makes no difference in my dialect either, but we're trying to keep things dialect-neutral. Also, apostrophes don't make very good stress marks in some browsers and fonts. There's an IPA input bar at the bottom of your edit window that has the proper symbols. (Eventually I'll get AWB programmed to take care of that, but with 20,000 or so articles with the IPA, it'll be slow going.)

For all I know, that might be the expected pronunciation. I can't find the etymology of Heteromeles. Do you know what the meles is? kwami (talk) 13:44, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm just starting to get my head wrapped around the standardized phonemic representations; I'm more used to the phonetic. I see even more clearly now the necessity to separate /phonemic/ from ; some of the phonemic pronunciations, if pronounced phonetically, would sound really strange to any native English speaker, since they would combine disparate regionalisms in a single word.

Heteromeles means "different apple" (quite apt, as it turns out). "Apple" is μήλο, so the Sunset pronunciation is correct, and I and all the other botanists of my acquaintance "mispronounce" it.--Curtis Clark (talk) 14:18, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

What we have isn't exactly phonemic either: it's an inter-dialectical construct, so that the pronunciation in any covered dialect (i.e. not Scottish) is predictable from the transcription. I'm not sure there is any rhotic dialect that makes all the vowel distinctions of RP; if there is, then this would be phonemic for that dialect. Otherwise it's theoretical. kwami (talk) 12:13, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

So, is /ˈeɪsiːʔiː/ with a clear glottal stop the conventional pronunciation for -aceae? (I think it's commonly /ˈeɪsɪ.iː/ in the UK.) Does it ever get shortened to just /ˈeɪsiː/? kwami (talk) 12:17, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

One hears both /ˈeɪsiːʔiː/ and /ˈeɪsiːʲeɪ/ in the US, the former being much more common. The glottal stop in the former is as clear to my ear as the medial one in uh-oh. I would not know how to pronounce /iː.iː/ (without a stop); making it into a glide simply prolongs the vowel even more.

I've never heard it shortened to /ˈeɪsiː/ by native US-English speakers with botanical training, except in rapid speech. But shortening to a single final vowel is common in non-English European pronunciations; I once heard the Russian botanist Takhtajan pronounce it /atsi/.--Curtis Clark (talk) 13:25, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

You fell for it

Not a big deal, but I thought I'd point out, with respect to , that the whole section was bogus (and I've removed it). My clue was the words "erectile disfunction". That's always an invitation to take a closer look, and the closer look showed that the cited sources didn't even mention poison ivy. Kingdon (talk) 12:10, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Lucky for us, you can't complain that Misplaced Pages mislead you unless you are willing to admit that you deliberately wrapped poison ivy around your.... Hesperian 12:42, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Fell for it? I prefer to think that I rose to the occasion. Seriously, as little time as I have for Misplaced Pages lately, I'm likely to fall for anything with a reference.... Hesperian, perhaps it was a homeopathic cure. I'd be willing to bathe in poison ivy at homeopathic dilutions. (Arguably, I frequently do, at the generic level. Our aquifer is fed by mountain rains that pass through areas infested with Toxicodendron diversilobum).--Curtis Clark (talk) 13:49, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Possible vandal on Cherry blossom page

Hi! Just a short note to let you know that an anon user appears to have deleted a couple of references, between two of your edits, see here. I see in the history of the page that you have reverted an edit from the same anon previously. I'm not in a position to judge whether the deletion of references was justified, but I thought you might like to have a look into it. Thanks, --NorwegianBlue 18:47, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

I saw the deleted references, and probably should have checked them, but I wanted to avoid getting in an edit war with someone who obviously has strong opinions. If you think they are valuable, please re-add them.--Curtis Clark (talk) 02:46, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Santa Barbara Botanic Garden

OK, I'm sorry I didn't add the other cite, or dig for more news sources, but here it is: . Go to 11:50 a.m. today. It's not good news. I'm not adding it back or edit-warring with you, but I do think you should know I'm not making this stuff up. Thanks, Antandrus (talk) 04:01, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't want to edit war either, and please update the article. I happened to read the article you first cited, and another from a Santa Barbara paper, both from before they had reported on Ed's assessment, and I knew what those articles said. It still seems that the herbarium and library are intact, but the damage to the living collections is greater than it first appeared.

When I interviewed for the research director position in the early 1990s, I remember them discussing the likely damage from a fire. Based on their estimates then (that everything would burn to the ground), they evidently did okay.--Curtis Clark (talk) 05:24, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Taphonomy - en.wiki omission

Next time you have five minutes can you add a few images of fossils to the taphonomy article? Any would be fine, but here's a few from commons that you could quickly choose 3 from. I will, when I get back to editing, find a good range of examples and rewrite the article to illustrate specific points, but for now it's silly not to have pictures of fossils in an article on taphonomy.

• File:LaBreaTarPitsExcavation2008.jpg
• File:Cooksonia_fossil.JPG
• File:Ginkgo_biloba_MacAbee_BC.jpg
• File:Asaphiscuswheelerii.jpg
• File:Insects_in_baltic_amber.jpg
• File:MammothFootImpressions25.jpg

If you don't have time or interest, I will eventually get around to it, not in the next few weeks though. I'll also learn to format images one day. --KP Botany (talk) 03:59, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Ah, I forgot about that. My first attempt exploded the load time of your home page. --KP Botany (talk) 07:14, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Done. I only added two, since the article is short, but I related them both to the subject.--Curtis Clark (talk) 17:49, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. --KP Botany (talk) 04:20, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Clover?

Hi Curtis. On User:Neelix/Images/Unknown you ID'd flower 6 as Trifolium sp.; did you mean to ID flower 8? Flower 6 looks like a marigold. --Una Smith (talk) 22:56, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Oops, fixed. Thanks.--Curtis Clark (talk) 02:05, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Geraea canescens Question

In the article Geraea canescens I recently added a picture of what I thought was the seeds of the given species. You changed the wording from seeds to fruit and I was wondering why. They look like seeds to me.Chhe (talk) 19:47, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Please read this and this. If you've ever eaten a sunflower "seed", the outer husk or shell that many people remove is the fruit wall, and the inner "kernel" is the seed. If you look carefully, you can see the papery seed coat around it. Geraea works the same way. A good rule of thumb is that if a plant has flowers, its seeds will always be formed inside a fruit (even though the fruit may not be something you'd want in a fruit salad).--Curtis Clark (talk) 20:23, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

I tried pulling one apart and I can see what you mean. It doesn't come apart as nicely as a sunflower seed, but there is a noticeable seed inside.Chhe (talk) 20:46, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

To ensure germination (Geraea has seed dormancy, and its relative Encelia has even more), we would often soak the achenes and remove the fruit wall—it's a lot easier that way.--Curtis Clark (talk) 23:27, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Curtis I've tried to get these to germinate before and failed. Do you know how to get them to germinate?Chhe (talk) 18:40, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Ironically, direct sowing works when you don't want them to germinate. I would normally place filter paper soaked in water in Petri dishes, place the achenes on top, after a few days of soaking dissect off the fruit wall, and most of them would germinate. Were I doing it now, I'd use water agar instead. Removing the fruit wall is effective on Geraea, Enceliopsis, and every Encelia except E. farinosa, which in some cases also needed the removal of the thin seed coat, which is very difficult to do without damaging the embryo.--Curtis Clark (talk) 20:15, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Pluralisation of scientific names

I admit I was probably being a bit adamant when saying plurals "..are not allowed" but on reflection I can't bring to mind any situation when I might pluralise a scientific name. Quercus robors ? - I don't think so. Hedera helices - just too confusing. And what if, heaven forfend, that there were two species of the same genus differentiated only by the presence of lack of an s at then end of their specific name. It would be impossible to tell the plural from the alternative species. I know that is a little far-fetched but we have closely named species such as Euphorbia peplus and Euphorbia peplis differing in only one vowel. More to the point I am intrigued whether you know of anyone using pluralised scientific names?  Velela    17:00, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I can't think of any examples in English; although nothing prohibits it, it is cumbersome and confusing, as you point out. They are routinely pluralized, though, in Latin—"Querci robustes et Hederae helices in Anglia habitant,"—although even in descriptions of new taxa of plants the singular is most often used: "Querco robusti differt..." (I may have the declensions wrong on some of these).--Curtis Clark (talk) 20:09, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Page moves

I've become rather defensive about them. :-) Hesperian 01:46, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Heh. --Una Smith (talk) 04:24, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Curtis, you're tired of whatsisname disrespecting guidelines, so you join his side? --Una Smith (talk) 04:24, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm agreeing with Araneae, that since the custom among the mammalogists is to use common names, I defer to them, no matter which side pmandersonortheasterly takes. If the mammalogists respect the plant guidelines equally, we're good to go.--Curtis Clark (talk) 04:57, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Vector (biology)

• Hi, I restored what was removed earlier from Vector (biology) and moved in terms from Vector dab. Could you please check if the link to pollinator looks logical as a sub-item of what you added yesterday? --Abanima (talk) 13:18, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Canna (plant)

Can you look at the image mess on this page and make an executive decission. Our buddy User:Giantsshoulders is calling another user, how make lack some understanding of the situation, a "moron" and an "idiot." It would be nice to make a decision, which image to use, explain it to Muhammad if he's in the wrong, and politely nip the situation in the bud. I'm rather overwhelmed right now with personal life. Possible Hesperian can help also if necessary. Giantsshoulders needs to cut it out, regardless.

Hope all is well with you. Thanks.

--KP Botany (talk) 22:02, 20 July 2009 (UTC)